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Flashpoint Providence - AAR - Operation Fedaykin

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Khemical Gallente Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2008.01.15 20:48:00 - [181] THIS is a battle report. I for one welcome our wall of text overlords.
xenobite 666 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:33:00 - [182] My eyes my eyes .... my eyes I canot see mommy. No woryes son its a Jade constantine post. Jade say hy to antandros for me (from an old friend). =====Only Death Is Eternal===== Trade feedback Linkage
BlueKind Gallente IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:40:00 - [183] Shame Jade all that wall of text....but still got nothing to show for it. We know how are we doing and I may add very well indeed. we don't need sympathy vote from the community by posting wall of text in the forums, not our style. I think you look for attention but sorry we don't like give you one. Severance as carebear alliace you have war dec'ed us from past 3 months and still on. Sorry to dissappoint you....you thought we gonna be a push over alliance to add another victory trophy for you alliance. In you own words u said u can't beat us in conventional manner ...these word are coming from a 3 year old solid pvp alliance. When you talk about CVA ...that they out numbered you and uk zillion to 1. but you will never find a single post from severance in forums us talking about SF,UK and Eternal Raputer out numbered us in pvp experience and numbers for 2 months 20 days(not exact that number of days). I think we have came under attack by UK n SK cos we are CVA good friends and u can;t take CVA head on. So when we need help ( iam sure every one in eve need help at some point) CVA come and help us out. So what are you really complaining about that Severance got save by CVA when they come to help us. In the end i say Jade right now so deep in this mess you have left nothing but self padding in the back and old graves of minor success to brag about ..oh yeah and another wall of text. Looks like ball is again in your court. ---- Bluekind
Dante Barsavi Red Branch Inc	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:52:00 - [184] Originally by: BlueKind I think you look for attention but sorry we don't like give you one. When you talk about CVA ...that they out numbered you and uk zillion to 1. but you will never find a single post from severance in forums us talking about SF,UK and Eternal Raputer out numbered us in pvp experience and numbers for 2 months 20 days(not exact that number of days). Until now
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.15 23:26:00 - [185] Originally by: Tecam Hund Our opponent doesn't seem to realize that playing the game involves using the forums. If you seriously believe that, then the Judas Goat is having way more fun that Jade gives credit for...
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.16 00:42:00 - [186] Originally by: BlueKind We know how are we doing and I may add very well indeed. we don't need sympathy vote from the community by posting wall of text in the forums, not our style. I think you look for attention but sorry we don't like give you one. And yet Sev3rance have been posting an awful lot on this matter BlueKind. You have actually been trying very hard to claim that you were not in imminent danger of alliance failure prior to CVA intervention during the Tower Siege of KBP and its that claim that lacks credibility in the eyes of your enemies and also neutral commentators on this thread. Quote: Severance as carebear alliace you have war dec'ed us from past 3 months and still on. Sorry to dissappoint you....you thought we gonna be a push over alliance to add another victory trophy for you alliance. Your words not ours. We said no such thing about your nature and showed no such disrespect with our declaration of war. SF declares war on Sev3rance I invite you to go and re-read our war-declaration and then you can perhaps post an apology for your misrepresentation of the words used. We certainly didn't describe you as "carebear pushovers" and we have treated you throughout this campaign as serious opponents to be dealt with by serious tactics and disciplined focus. Quote: In you own words u said u can't beat us in conventional manner ...these word are coming from a 3 year old solid pvp alliance. In my own words I said the combined forces of SF/UK and our allies could not defeat the combined forces of CVA/CSA/Sev/Slyph/Paxton (and whatever out of region allies they would muster to a serious capital slug fest.) But then again. Nor could TRI, nor could CI, nor could Burn Eden, nor indeed could BoB. So you'll understand if I find us ranked in quite illustrious company in that particular lack of accomplishment. The Providence Amarrian levy is an impressive force. Sev3rance alone is no longer. Thats what the campaign has accomplished more than anything Bluekind. We have withered away your ability to stand alone without CVA support and you no longer have the confidence to fight without CVA commanders in your gang. Quote: ... you will never find a single post from severance in forums us talking about SF,UK and Eternal Raputer out numbered us in pvp experience and numbers for 2 months 20 days(not exact that number of days). Except this one? Quote: So what are you really complaining about that Severance got save by CVA when they come to help us. I'm not "complaining" in the slightest. Merely saying this was the case and thank you for confirming it. And since you agree precisely with what I wrote in the OP perhaps you can see how silly it is for your alliance mates to continue debating the point? "I might not have meant anything by it"
Cyriel Longinus XERCORE	Posted - 2008.01.16 02:03:00 - [187] Thanks for the share Jade. That was surely a innovative use of new technology in EvE. Though you did not get the deisred results ... I think your test was a success and a eye opener that "special operations" are more than catchy tag words in a Bio. I honestly did not know the "Sev3rance" alliance existed untill Jade posted this.
Keorythe Caldari Terra Rosa Militia Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.01.16 04:24:00 - [188] Edited by: Keorythe on 16/01/2008 04:26:26 Originally by: Jade Constantine And yet Sev3rance have been posting an awful lot on this matter BlueKind. You have actually been trying very hard to claim that you were not in imminent danger of alliance failure prior to CVA intervention during the Tower Siege of KBP and its that claim that lacks credibility in the eyes of your enemies and also neutral commentators on this thread. We post in response to your claims. Which you are trying very very hard to push on the community that S3verance was about to fail. The fact that other than some spread out ganks which you own timestamps show you were unable to do much at all. The truth of the matter was that SF were failing to inflict serious harm against S3verance and the result was a stalemate. During your entire time in KBP you never once took down a station (even that nice little SMALL waystation tower) for the same reason we couldn't take down yours thanks to TRI. You've already admitted that CVA was tied up on their side of the map and that poor little S3verance was all alone. Or, or are you going to change your stance again? And stop with the "neutral" commentators stuff. There were no neutrals in the area that weren't shooting at us posting on this forum. Your claim at success or even efficiency is lacking any real credibility to us...or the neutral commentators on this thread (lulz!). But then I forgot this is COAD, you don't worry about things like that. Quote: In my own words I said the combined forces of SF/UK and our allies could not defeat the combined forces of CVA/CSA/Sev/Slyph/Paxton (and whatever out of region allies they would muster to a serious capital slug fest.) But then again. Nor could TRI, nor could CI, nor could Burn Eden, nor indeed could Not a single name on that list ever tried to "defeat" CVA. Most come (and they cycle through all of the time) for pew pew. Please dont sully some of those great PvP names by trying to associate their fun with your failures. Quote: The Providence Amarrian levy is an impressive force. Sev3rance alone is no longer. Thats what the campaign has accomplished more than anything Bluekind. We have withered away your ability to stand alone without CVA support and you no longer have the confidence to fight without CVA commanders in your gang. Keep believing that, if you wish. Our dreadnoughts still got some tower kills so were all happy. Our regular force is still getting some nice kills, we get bored of camping the empire Dihra station, and we love the nano-fleets roaming around in our low times. They're cute really. Quote: I'm not "complaining" in the slightest. Merely saying this was the case and thank you for confirming it. And since you agree precisely with what I wrote in the OP perhaps you can see how silly it is for your alliance mates to continue debating the point? Actually you ARE complaining on the very thing which YOU have stated repeatedly, not us. Its odd having to deal with statements made by you then argued by you. Its a good tactic though for throwing people off metaphorically. Whatever happened to Eternal Rapture anyway? I wonder if Hardin offers Forum Warrior 101 classes. This is interesting.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.16 06:03:00 - [189] Ah the ever-returning mr Keorythe, IÆm glad you couldnÆt keep your resolution to stay away old chap. So then, yes as you acknowledge above, I am offering the community my earnest opinion that Sev3rance was indeed about to fail. I saw the evidence with my own eyes of your reduced activity, corporations leaving, and general attitude of defeatism. We have captures of intel from your internal forums of course citing frustration at the small size of your musters and talking about needing to ôstand togetherö or ôfall togetherö etc etc really. These are all things that an alliance under intolerable pressure tends to exhibit in extremis and you were no exception to that rule. As for the towers, well you were fortunate that the TRI presence in Providence was sporadic over Christmas and each reinforcement battle saw you reinforced by CVA when TRI was not around. Ultimately had CVA not been in a position to bring forces to your aid you would have lost every Tower in KBP and been ousted in space. This is not something that any credible commentator could really debate û and indeed your own alliance mate Bluekind has been kind enough to admit explicitly above. So no argument there. The point is you cannot stand without CVA lifesupport. I think we agree on this. As for claims of success and efficiency and credibility with you mr Keorythe, I think you misunderstand the way this works. Why would we care what Sev3rance thinks? You are the enemy, itÆs your job to minimise your losses and lionise your successes and claim you are still fighting fit. You have to put on a good show for the CVA fleet commanders watching your performance or theyÆll replace you. We both know that. Shame really that at this very moment IÆm looking at a KBP system that has 3x as many empty Towers as active Sev3rance "fighters" available to defend ôyour spaceö and itÆs been this way for the last six hours. A dry statistic perhaps mr Keorythe but its hardly a convincing one for your alliance health. As for attempting to claim that previous enemies of the CVA have not attempted to ôdefeat themö merely indulge in ôpew-pewö thatÆs beneath you, thatÆs beneath me, and it offends the intelligence of the average CAOD commentator besides. ôRoad Tripsö are what happen when an offensive fails. You cannot make an artificial division between road-tripping and ôserious warö that has any credibility in the eyes of those who have experienced these things in space. If a force has no will or ability to enforce serious impact on an enemy itÆs a ôroad tripö. ItÆs the ôget out of jail freeö card for alliances that cannot defeat foes in current circumstances. No more no less. As for the last, you are confusing yourself again. I will repeat. Sev3rance today exists only because of CVA support and protection. You are unable to stand alone. While TRI was engaging CVA you were on the verge of complete breakdown and nobody present in KBP system during those weeks can have any doubt of that. The fallout of this state is Sev3rance today that still lacks the confidence even to fight in space without direct CVA gang leadership and oversight. Over three months of warfare we have seen you diminished from an independent and confident ôholderö nation on the providence borders to a small clan of holdouts who cannot fight without CVA fleet support. Ultimately mr Keorythe this is your crisis to resolve one way or another. Who knows what will happen from this point forwards, perhaps as Snakester has commented you will end up joining the CVA as a whole since you are now inseparable as a combat entity and cannot exist on your own. "I might not have meant anything by it"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.16 06:50:00 - [190] Originally by: Jade Constantine Over three months of warfare we have seen you diminished from an independent and confident ôholderö nation on the providence borders to a small clan of holdouts who cannot fight without CVA fleet support. Actually, if one goes back to read the propeganda, CVA has never been independent from its "holder" nations, only able to defend its space with their help...and the "holder" nations have never been independent from the CVA, only able to defend their space with our help. Or was that the convenient propeganda at the time and this is the convenient progeganda now?
Niding Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.16 07:49:00 - [191] Jade is trying to protray the use of and the ability to form solid friendships/alliances as a bad thing. SF and UK work together, which is a good thing for them as a fighting force. They combine their expiriences and firepower to enhance past what they as lone entities can accomplish. Good for them. Likewise, CVA and Holders has forged longlasting trust and friendship to develop AND defend Providence TOGETHER. Why this is considered a weakness by Jade is beyond me. I consider it a strenght.
Keorythe Caldari Terra Rosa Militia Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.01.16 08:08:00 - [192] Edited by: Keorythe on 16/01/2008 08:09:26 Originally by: Jade Constantine So then, yes as you acknowledge above, I am offering the community my earnest opinion that Sev3rance was indeed about to fail. Thank you for finally admitting this is your opinion and not a fact. Quote: We have captures of intel from your internal forums of course citing frustration at the small size of your musters and talking about needing to ôstand togetherö or ôfall togetherö etc etc really. These are all things that an alliance under intolerable pressure tends to exhibit in extremis and you were no exception to that rule. Yes, I know the post you're talking about. If you have it handy in front of you you can see it is specifically talking about our low times thanks to shortages of that particular time zone. That fact that we need to recruit for that more is even repeated in the post. Thanks for confirming the metagaming spy, btw. Quote: As for the towers, well you were fortunate that the TRI presence in Providence was sporadic over Christmas and each reinforcement battle saw you reinforced by CVA when TRI was not around. Ultimately had CVA not been in a position to bring forces to your aid you would have lost every Tower in KBP and been ousted in space. This is not something that any credible commentator could really debate û and indeed your own alliance mate Bluekind has been kind enough to admit explicitly above. So no argument there. The point is you cannot stand without CVA lifesupport. I think we agree on this. Yet another opinion I see with another "credible commentator" comment. Whether CVA showed or not had you brought your capitals to the fight (and you never even onlined them when they came out of reinforced) you would have lost some if not all of them which is not something that any credible commentator could really debate. Your track record of POS warfare and support failure over the time is proof of that. I believe the sarcasm expressed by Bluekind and your subsequent self-made arguement from it have already been addressed. Quote: As for claims of success and efficiency and credibility with you mr Keorythe, I think you misunderstand the way this works. Why would we care what Sev3rance thinks? You are the enemy, itÆs your job to minimise your losses and lionise your successes and claim you are still fighting fit. And vice versa. I believe everyone in COAD by now has noticed how much effort you yourself have put into this little debate and how badly you hate losing arguements. Quote: You have to put on a good show for the CVA fleet commanders watching your performance or theyÆll replace you. We both know that. Shame really that at this very moment IÆm looking at a KBP system that has 3x as many empty Towers as active Sev3rance "fighters" available to defend ôyour spaceö and itÆs been this way for the last six hours. A dry statistic perhaps mr Keorythe but its hardly a convincing one for your alliance health. Yes, Commisar Garreck has replaced me with a Vespa II named bootilicious and a pack of spirits. As for the downtime, its 1am here and like 6am for the euro's on a work week. Hey, isn't that your most visible hours? Quote: As for attempting to claim that previous enemies of the CVA have not attempted to ôdefeat themö merely indulge in ôpew-pewö thatÆs beneath you, thatÆs beneath me, and it offends the intelligence of the average CAOD commentator besides. ôRoad Tripsö are what happen when an offensive fails. You cannot make an artificial division between road-tripping and ôserious warö that has any credibility in the eyes of those who have experienced these things in space. If a force has no will or ability to enforce serious impact on an enemy itÆs a ôroad tripö. ItÆs the ôget out of jail freeö card for alliances that cannot defeat foes in current circumstances. No more no less. -TRI from the beginning said they came for pew pew and are always looking for good fights. Nothing more, nothing less. -Burn Eden has a strong precedent of going from area to area looking for pew pew. Nothing more, nothing less. -Cruel Intentions are a mercenary group for hire that fights till the contract is up. Nothing more, nothing less. -BoB has publicly stated that they had no interest in Providence other than a waystation. Nothing more, nothing less. Everyone knows that Ursha'Khan attempted to "defeat" CVA forces for the sake of their territory and they put up and excellent fight. But for you to say that the above mentioned corps/alliances despite precedent and pre-war statements failed in "serious war" simply because you can't fathom the idea of mobile pew pew for fun (except they state that before the fights not after a loss) is beneath you, and it offends the intelligence of the average CAOD commentator besides. Heck that just plainly insults those aforementioned corps/alliances.
Keorythe Caldari Terra Rosa Militia Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.01.16 08:12:00 - [193] Quote: As for the last, you are confusing yourself again. I will repeat. Sev3rance today exists only because of CVA support and protection. You are unable to stand alone. While TRI was engaging CVA you were on the verge of complete breakdown and nobody present in KBP system during those weeks can have any doubt of that. Yes yes, you've already stated that this is your opinion as confirmed above (lets not forget confirmation by "neutral" commentators too). You can repeat it all you like but its still not going to hold any credibility. Quote: Over three months of warfare we have seen you diminished from an independent and confident ôholderö nation on the providence borders to a small clan of holdouts who cannot fight without CVA fleet support. Yes yes, thanks for that opinion. Before I end this may I point out that its been close to if not more than a year that we've not only seen you Star Fraction diminish but you've shown that you can't fight without UK, Cognet, insert various mercenaries here, Eternal Rapture, Sani Sabik, and who knows how many other corporations listed on the KB's supporting you. The amount of isk lost, headaches caused, and bridges burned by all of them to your machinations, schemes, and ever changing ideology throughout that time is phenomenal. Your accomplishment to date? A great video! Enjoy! Bomber Disco!! Oh my, look at what you made me do! A WALL OF TEXT! Darn, I feel so dirty now. Quick someone give me a sponge bath!
Conlin Gallente Yiotul Fighters Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.01.16 08:19:00 - [194] Originally by: Hardin silence terrorist dog ;) to all those bothering to argue with jade: don't. fact is it was a good try and op by sf and uk as I acknowledged elsewhere before this thread was even started. similarly there can be no arguing with the fact that sf and uk failed in their objective to kill a cva capital, losing around 50 ships and 7 pos in the process. I would suggest that cva and friends now leave this thread alone now and let jade and co continue their celebrations in peace :) Not very often I agree with Hardin on anything especially his spin , but cmon now listen to the guy , move on . This topic started off well till sev etc started flaming
Maggot Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.01.16 08:40:00 - [195] Originally by: Keorythe Everyone knows that Ursha'Khan attempted to "defeat" CVA forces for the sake of their territory and they put up and excellent fight. Actually that statement is not true. U'K never once in its history made an attack to take CVA territory.
Keorythe Caldari Terra Rosa Militia Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.01.16 09:19:00 - [196] Edited by: Keorythe on 16/01/2008 09:20:25 Originally by: Maggot Originally by: Keorythe Everyone knows that Ursha'Khan attempted to "defeat" CVA forces for the sake of their territory and they put up and excellent fight. Actually that statement is not true. U'K never once in its history made an attack to take CVA territory. I meant during the fight for the former UK owned territories not CVA's and the Minmatar/Amarr RP war in general. My apologies for the misconception.
Karn Mithralia Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.01.16 09:32:00 - [197] Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 16/01/2008 09:34:05 Another mis-conception of yours Keorythe is the statement that no sev POS were destroyed in KBP. I clearly recall having much fun destroying a large amarr one with nothing but small BS fleet and a handful of large bubbles. -----------------------------------------
Filthy Pierre Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.16 10:27:00 - [198] The historical dialectic shows that conflicts such as the one between CVA/Allies and Star Fraction are inevitable and will last a long time. That is a good thing - fighting for a dream of freedom for everyone, not just select small groups - sustains people far better and for far longer than fighting for mere ISK and power ever did. We're here, we are patient, we are armed with that most deadly of all weapons - a good cause. We'll be seeing you. FP
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.01.16 10:32:00 - [199] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Keorythe No Ms. Constantine, the point of the OP is to spin a massive loss into a sort of win. No Mr Keorythe. I think you still aren't quite reading the OP correctly. Its all a bit silly for you to accuse me of spin while admitting that your "approximate" figures have nothing to do with the numbers listed on the kill boards isn't it :) Star Fraction has absolutely nothing to hide with our combat results hence the entirely public killboard and open stats. Quote: ...Fitting a ship you plan to lose while defending a major assest doesn't show courage, it shows defeatism. The future will tell how well your logistic team really did as a single engagement shows really nothing. Fitting a ship you plan to inflict more damage on the enemy with than you take yourself shows guerrilla warfare smarts and dynamic thinking. Our Bomber fleet caused a lot more fiscal damage than it took to assemble and gave (I imagine) our pilots a hellova lot more than sitting like sheep in a passive blob on the gates or being blown to pieces mid pos looting :) Read the OP again Keorythe. We admit, there was absolutely no way we could win a conventional fleet battle against 3-1 odds and the assembled Providence hordes. If we behaved like our enemies we'd have spent the battle docked or behind POS shields. Instead we came out and took the battle to you guys and gave a serious try to causing a historic dreadnaught gank. Sure we lost the towers ultimately - but you know what, we had a hell of a good time with that tactic and you can bet you'll be seeing more of it in the future! Jade, you are an excellent tactical leader, but you are failing to grasp the strategic picture here. No amount of "guerilla warfare" has ever, or will ever, take or hold territory. At BEST, it can temporarily deny territory to somebody. In extreme cases, it can break an entities will to fight, see PL and Goons breaking of RISE. Constant guerrilla warfare prepared the way for a conventional fleet to take sovernty. Without the constant harrasment, and hit and runs, the conventional fleet would have taken much heavier losses than it did. It still took dreads and Battleships to remove the hostile towers though. Killing dreads is propaganda, killing Poses is winning a war.
Snakester Caldari Blood and Money Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.01.16 10:44:00 - [200] Originally by: Jade Constantine perhaps as Snakester has commented you will end up joining the CVA as a whole since you are now inseparable as a combat entity and cannot exist on your own. I think i said, if u actually did manage to make -7- fold, all u would end up doing was make 90% of us join CVA, which in turn would make your life harder.Oh heres, the log, dunno if i can post it here tho, if it gets deleted, oh well. [ 2008.01.13 17:17:13 ] Jade Constantine > we're not the average alliance Snake and we don't even smack about the things that most people do :) [ 2008.01.13 17:19:26 ] Snakester > i just think, your taking this whole cva/pets thing way to seriously, can't be good for your health. , worse comes to worse, u do actually make -7- disband, 95% of it's pilots/corps will join cva. [ 2008.01.13 17:20:09 ] Snakester > we have alot of history with cva, were like brothers, our bond atm is stronger then ever [ 2008.01.13 17:20:32 ] Jade Constantine > yeah but will be more honest that way at least Originally by: Karn Mithralia Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 16/01/2008 09:34:05 Another mis-conception of yours Keorythe is the statement that no sev POS were destroyed in KBP. I clearly recall having much fun destroying a large amarr one with nothing but small BS fleet and a handful of large bubbles. Yep, excellent work on destroying an offline tower from a member corp which had left. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Damion Zyne Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.16 11:23:00 - [201] Originally by: Audri Fisher Jade, you are an excellent tactical leader, but you are failing to grasp the strategic picture here. No amount of "guerilla warfare" has ever, or will ever, take or hold territory. You are failing to grasp that SF is not about holding / taking territory though.
Conlin Gallente Yiotul Fighters Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.01.16 12:26:00 - [202] Edited by: Conlin on 16/01/2008 12:30:30 Edited by: Conlin on 16/01/2008 12:27:55 Originally by: Snakester Edited by: Snakester on 16/01/2008 12:16:36 Originally by: Jade Constantine perhaps as Snakester has commented you will end up joining the CVA as a whole since you are now inseparable as a combat entity and cannot exist on your own. I think i said, if u actually did manage to make -7- fold, all u would end up doing was make 90% of us join CVA, which in turn would make your life harder.Oh heres, the log, dunno if i can post it here tho, if it gets deleted, oh well. [ 2008.01.13 17:17:13 ] Jade Constantine > we're not the average alliance Snake and we don't even smack about the things that most people do :) [ 2008.01.13 17:19:26 ] Snakester > i just think, your taking this whole cva/pets thing way to seriously, can't be good for your health. , worse comes to worse, u do actually make -7- disband, 95% of it's pilots/corps will join cva. [ 2008.01.13 17:20:09 ] Snakester > we have alot of history with cva, were like brothers, our bond atm is stronger then ever [ 2008.01.13 17:20:32 ] Jade Constantine > yeah but will be more honest that way at least Originally by: Karn Mithralia Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 16/01/2008 09:34:05 Another mis-conception of yours Keorythe is the statement that no sev POS were destroyed in KBP. I clearly recall having much fun destroying a large amarr one with nothing but small BS fleet and a handful of large bubbles. Yep, excellent work on destroying an offline tower from a member corp which had left. :edit- Also, if i remember rightly, said POS wasn't even in kbp, UK/SF have never killed a -7- pos in kbp, theyve put some in reinforced yes (1x small twice, 1x med twice and 2x lrg pos). Snakester that is about as relevant as grecian 2000 is to your head . To be honest snake , posting ingame chatlogs (which can be doctored) makes you look extremely childish , or deperate
Virgil Aquilis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.16 12:44:00 - [203] Originally by: Damion Zyne Originally by: Audri Fisher Jade, you are an excellent tactical leader, but you are failing to grasp the strategic picture here. No amount of "guerilla warfare" has ever, or will ever, take or hold territory. You are failing to grasp that SF is not about holding / taking territory though. It's about vomiting words! Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Morden Nok Cohortes Vigilum Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.16 12:46:00 - [204] Edited by: Morden Nok on 16/01/2008 12:48:00 Edited out typos Originally by: Conlin To be honest snake , posting ingame chatlogs (which can be doctored) makes you look extremely childish , or deperate Well, we all know that Jade likes to doctor chatlogs, for example removing timestamps, putting the quotes out of context and then removing any comments about him doing it and lying about it, but that doesn't mean our side does it. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0801/SF_Killboard.jpg Originally by: Zennith Id be interested to see the numbers actually, I think Sev has more pilots but that might just be perception being affected by the "counts every foeman twice" syndrome And it is: UK have 282 members and SF has 114 members for total of 396 members. Sev3rance has 250 members and Cold Steel Alliance has 100 members for total of 350 members. For all UK/SF talk of "guerilla warfare" they have actually outnumbered their main opponents in KBP all the time. Eve-maps offer nice way of checking how fast alliances are gaining and losing people and space: http://www.eve-maps.com/outpostalert/alliancechart.asp?FilterType=Alliance&FilterBy=UNITY http://www.eve-maps.com/outpostalert/alliancechart.asp?FilterType=Alliance&FilterBy=-7- Looking at these it's pretty easy to see that member losses in UK and -7- are approximately 10%, which is inconsequential. (And no, counting all holders for -7-'s side would only have been true if UK/SF/Stim/ENH/Eternal rapture had split up their forces and attacked all Holders at the same time.)
Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2008.01.16 12:58:00 - [205] What a fuss - let them celebrate their achieving nothing of consequence if it helps the morale of the troops. -7- is still there, some good fights were had. Just leave it at that. PIE is dead for some months if you believe the propaganda, too, after all. So what? In the end noone cares about the forum war if the results do not match with in-game reality. Now recruiting!
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.16 13:32:00 - [206] Originally by: Morden Nok Well, we all know that Jade likes to doctor chatlogs, for example removing timestamps, putting the quotes out of context and then removing any comments about him doing it and lying about it, but that doesn't mean our side does it. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0801/SF_Killboard.jpg I wondered how long you'd be able to hold yourself from posting this doctored propaganda piece CVA. I'm glad its finally come out in the open though and we can deal with the issue in the clear light of day. Now, what this little gem from CVA is about is a a night when Solusar managed to kill a Star Fraction Stabber (yes stabber) class ship in Dital System and proceeded to fill local for the next hour with general commentary about how Star Fraction failed in his eyes, how Triumvirate failed, how Ushra'khan had been bought and paid for by Star Fraction, how he had material proof that we were funding the UK Tower challenge, that he had disgruntled UK agents feeding him intel about the financial situation inside UK and other such amusing claims (given that Hardin usually makes a large point about how the CVA do not "stoop" to infiltration and spying). Anyway, the loss gets posted and one of our allies makes a quip on the database comments section (200 letters max) "At least he didn't smack..." I followed up by posting a couple of examples of the things Solusar had been saying. Then went to bed. The next morning the Kill Database comments section is full of anonymous comments from angry-sounding people (which we delete as a matter of course) then Solusar and Garreck start posting there demanding that the Solusar quote's be removed, and spamming the killboard software each minute until they get their way. Eventually I post a notification that anonymous smack will be removed (and delete Solusar and Garreck as well and Cosmo and I explain that its a Killboard comments function not a forum for debate and if they want to discuss the issue they are hot and bothered about then they are welcome to come to our SF forum, or SHC, and discuss it.) They of course demure and screen shot the Killboard at various points (not including any of the aforesaid anonymous smack of course since they waited until I deleted that) and produce the image that Morden Nok links too. Silly, quite the storm in a teacup. Why oh why had Solusar and the CVA gotten so agitated by this I wonder. So I take another look at the chatlog from local and realize that its got to be because Solusar is breaking the Hardin directive not to "smack TRI too hard" on the issue for their pullout from Providence. Hardin is a wise man in some ways, and knows perfectly well that putting up with TRI coming back and trying harder next time is about the worst thing he can imagine in future circumstanced for the CVA and having one of this pilots spinning his mouth in local and expressing the opinion that what failures TRI were to have "failed" to make any ground against CVA (despite as we all know, TRI having been rebuffed ultimately by IAC and Goons as much as CVA themselves) was simply poorly judged diplomacy at best and something to be expunged from history if it possibly could. So we get another day of CVA people spamming the killboard comments. We get demands in local that Solusar's quote should be removed. Threats of forum posts. Demands we remove the comment function. And something that is very like a mini threadnaught from CVA + anonymous posters continually posting one liner personal attacks on the comment function. Its quite surreal really. In the end we were going to turn off anonymous posting there or look for a ban by IP function but in the event Operation Fedaykin happened and the Stabber kill in question scrolled off the first page into the realms of history submerged by lots of bomber losses and enemy ships in the mix. So now I guess the question is. Why is CVA keen to begin this debate again on page seven of an unrelated thread after Hardin publicly posted a cease and desist order for his membership? The chatlog in question is VERY embarrassing for the CVA. I'm not going to post it complete because it has some things which will break forum rules in minor ways and its too long for purely entertainment purposes. But If anybody does want to see this log I'll see about it getting moved to the public section of the SF forum and I'll be happy to provide links by evemail if asked. But it is very telling as to how rattled the CVA as a whole is by the combined forces of SF and UK. We might not have taken territory or removed Sev3rance towers. But no other enemy the CVA has ever fought has been able to generate this level of panicky sub-psyops and attempted manipulation from Hardin's boys. Its easy to see that something is very rotten in the state of Denmark. "I might not have meant anything by it"
Conlin Gallente Yiotul Fighters Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.01.16 13:33:00 - [207] Originally by: Morden Nok Edited by: Morden Nok on 16/01/2008 12:48:00 Edited out typos Originally by: Conlin To be honest snake , posting ingame chatlogs (which can be doctored) makes you look extremely childish , or deperate Well, we all know that Jade likes to doctor chatlogs, for example removing timestamps, putting the quotes out of context and then removing any comments about him doing it and lying about it, but that doesn't mean our side does it. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0801/SF_Killboard.jpg Originally by: Zennith Id be interested to see the numbers actually, I think Sev has more pilots but that might just be perception being affected by the "counts every foeman twice" syndrome And it is: UK have 282 members and SF has 114 members for total of 396 members. Sev3rance has 250 members and Cold Steel Alliance has 100 members for total of 350 members. For all UK/SF talk of "guerilla warfare" they have actually outnumbered their main opponents in KBP all the time. Eve-maps offer nice way of checking how fast alliances are gaining and losing people and space: http://www.eve-maps.com/outpostalert/alliancechart.asp?FilterType=Alliance&FilterBy=UNITY http://www.eve-maps.com/outpostalert/alliancechart.asp?FilterType=Alliance&FilterBy=-7- Looking at these it's pretty easy to see that member losses in UK and -7- are approximately 10%, which is inconsequential. (And no, counting all holders for -7-'s side would only have been true if UK/SF/Stim/ENH/Eternal rapture had split up their forces and attacked all Holders at the same time.) Why do I get the feeling this just about attacking jade rather than just letting ppl read the report ?. Their was a pretty good amount of positive feedback on the first few pages , then suddenly cva & sev jump on the slate jade bandwagon . Even Hardin himself suggests you shut up and move on , but you cant can you ?. Just one more dig after another , I wouldnt mind so much if they were warranted or justified digs , but all I see is childish nit picking and going round in circles . And as for the chat logs , you can twist it anyway you wish , end of the day it was childish , no 2 ways about it . Oh and you failed to add ex Borg members ( NORD in the beginning of the engagement) There was also an attendance by several other corps fighting for sev as I remember (just wish I could remember there damn names . Even so incorporating those you failed to add taking into account alts , non active pilots etc the difference between sev , csa etc isnt worth mentioning . Unless of course your trying to justify the presence of CVA , PIE , Delictum , Sylph , AM and Paxton ? . In that case why whine at numbers between UK & SF outnumbering SEV etc when ultimately with all the combined forced inc above you outnumbered us by .........? I,II let you work it all out , you like figures .
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.01.16 13:34:00 - [208] Thanks for pulling the numbers for me Mord, didnt realise evemaps did that, very useful to know. UK : Severance is a 1.12 : 1 ratio, which isnt what i expected, but is pretty evenly matched. Throw in everyone else and those numbers change just a little :) We come for our people
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.16 13:50:00 - [209] Edited by: Gaius Kador on 16/01/2008 13:51:05 Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Morden Nok http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0801/SF_Killboard.jpg snip Why oh why had Solusar and the CVA gotten so agitated by this I wonder. It might have to do with the fact that you doctored the local chatlog, putting quotes together out of context, and posted it on a public killboard? Edit: Sorry about that, I'll let you all get on with your regular schedule of getting the thread back on topic :) ----------------------------------------------
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.16 13:52:00 - [210] Originally by: Audri Fisher Jade, you are an excellent tactical leader, but you are failing to grasp the strategic picture here. No amount of "guerilla warfare" has ever, or will ever, take or hold territory. At BEST, it can temporarily deny territory to somebody. In extreme cases, it can break an entities will to fight, see PL and Goons breaking of RISE. Constant guerrilla warfare prepared the way for a conventional fleet to take sovernty. Without the constant harrasment, and hit and runs, the conventional fleet would have taken much heavier losses than it did. It still took dreads and Battleships to remove the hostile towers though. Killing dreads is propaganda, killing Poses is winning a war. You know, I do agree with pretty much all of your post aside from the fact that this doesn't come as a surprise to us. We know the limitations of guerrilla warfare. You are absolutely correct in your closing assessment too that killing dreads is propaganda while killing poses is winning the war. But here we are, SF and UK at the moment are considerably outgunned by CVA loyalists and their "holders" in Providence. As I have indictated in the op we cannot win a POS reinforcement battle in the current balance of forces. We can however maintain long term pressure on selected "holder" allies of the CVA and score suppression and kills and remove any semblance of ease from their existence on the Providence borders. We are fighting an archetypal insurgent vs government forces campaign. Our fighters are more skilled certainly, we can win all smaller engagements and as long as we remain aware of CVA levies response time we can score kills and withdraw before the numbers turn too badly against us. But yes, ultimately you are correct. In order to win the war in Providence we need to grow our organizations through internal capability and attracting external allies to turn the tables against the CVA hordes and fight some formal pitched battles against their fixed assets. The campaign will not end until this happens. Fortunately though we do have the advantage that our organizations are much happier in a state of permanent guerrilla war than many of our targets. And while we are not sieging the walls of CVA's dominions we are maintaining a stranglehold on the access and supply routes and conducting a campaign of psychological starvation as CVA-bloc reinforcement entities are stifled and all Sev3rance shipping is placed a risk outside of significant major CVA fleet actions. But yes Audri, ultimately you and I don't disagree about very much at all. And if you happen to know where I can recruit a capital fleet of 50 dreadnaughts from don't hestitate to drop me a line ... regardless of past old history between our corporations I'm never closed to innovative new directions "I might not have meant anything by it"

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