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Airata	Posted - 2008.01.14 13:35:00 - [151] Originally by: Ostr0mir XIX have lost ALL of it's reputation in this incident, if it has ever had any. Its stupid to think XIX cares about reputation
Shimrod Minmatar Greyskulls	Posted - 2008.01.14 14:01:00 - [152] Wow the Reds exploiting game mechanics who would have ever thought..anyone remember the megacyte dupping from 03/04? I cant even belive this is been debated as if the gm was right or wrong or DMC are noobs or not, the potenial buyer clearly knew the Titan would bounce and why else would they ask for the ship to be ejected? there is no scam here its nothing but exploiting game mechanics and for anyone defending it may i suggest they petition ccp for a godmode command as its clear there that type of gamer.
SpiritOne Amarr Pandemic Influenza Infinite Innovation	Posted - 2008.01.14 14:19:00 - [153] Originally by: Omeega Edited by: Omeega on 14/01/2008 10:04:42 We have 10 people max reading/posting/bothering about eve-o, The rest of the alliance is searching for complexes to exploit and spamming Trade channels. I'm sorry couldn't help myself, its been so long since I've seen a RA Leadership don't work they sell isk post.
huxorator Intergalactic Serenity R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.01.14 15:03:00 - [154] Originally by: Mc Leech, The xDEATHx Squadron, Legion of xXDEATHXx Actually this was all XIX not RA Originally by: Tavernier, R.u.S.H., Red Alliance If we donÆt get it ... One day you will scam your main with your alt. --- IGS \| Intergalactic Serenity
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.01.14 15:06:00 - [155] Originally by: Shimrod Wow the Reds exploiting game mechanics who would have ever thought... EVE is designed as a sandbox, a set of tools to use as players see fit. Many of those tools aren't even properly documented in any official capacity. It follows, that since gameplay is open by design, that there is nothing wrong with utilizing available game mechanics to the fullest extent. Unless you're a sheep making excuses for your favorite side. ...
IAmAHaulingAlt	Posted - 2008.01.14 15:22:00 - [156] Originally by: Tavernier PS. Too bad that Eve is now a carebear heaven, designed for miners and belt farmers. Maybe next patch will remove 0.0 space completely and replace all guns with mining lasers? Its funny how RA complain about carebearing and belt farmers, you did after all farm 10/10 plexes all day before..
Mynas Wormtongue Hyena Bandwagon Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.14 17:32:00 - [157] Originally by: Razin EVE is designed as a sandbox, a set of tools to use as players see fit. Many of those tools aren't even properly documented in any official capacity. It follows, that since gameplay is open by design, that there is nothing wrong with utilizing available game mechanics to the fullest extent. Unless you're a sheep making excuses for your favorite side. Then you call it "exploiting". You tried to cheat using an exploit. You got caught, and the item was immediately returned, which would not have happened if all you were doing was using "tools that aren't properly documented." And now here you are here on damage control duty, twisting and squirming trying to invent new euphemisms for the word "cheater", representing an alliance that claims not to care what the rest of Eve thinks about it... which only makes you look more pathetic.
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:01:00 - [158] Lame. Doesn't matter how you look at it, it's lame. When you agree to do a trade transaction, you should stick to the rules. If you don't, you are a thief and a scammer. Using some undocumented and unintended game mechanics will add you a nice title of "sploiter" to the first two. You can talk about honor all you want, but desire to get a free Titan using some questionable game mechanics speaks louder than 1000 posts about honor.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:02:00 - [159] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 14/01/2008 18:02:45 Originally by: MAXSuicide i have little sympathy tbh, the russians have done this kind of thing dozens of time. You should never have went into business with them. They are the most untrustworthy/unreliable 'ally' anyone can have. (que goon troll?) Somebody help me please. "The Russians" mean who ? RA ? AAA ? UNL ? Any big alliance I would have forgot ? Are you speaking about an irl country or just of an ingame alliance ? Russian is not only spoke in Russia. Or not only in RA. Same about French and TCF, German and D¦, finnish (I guess) in FinFleet, etc. RA isn't the Russia, as TCF isn't the France. Don't make this mistake, there is a lot more than "just" french ppl and russian ppl in our alliances. TCF is only half french for example. 2isk
Zanarkand Gallente Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:11:00 - [160] Originally by: Razin Edited by: Razin on 14/01/2008 15:08:53 Originally by: Shimrod Wow the Reds exploiting game mechanics who would have ever thought... EVE is designed as a sandbox, a set of tools to use as players see fit. Many of those tools aren't even properly documented in any official capacity. It follows, that since gameplay is open by design, that there is nothing wrong with utilizing available game mechanics to the fullest extent. Unless you're a sheep making excuses for your favorite side. Then you call it "exploiting". The whole t20 thing was some unfair "exploit, exploit!" whine by goons/d2???
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:19:00 - [161] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 14/01/2008 18:21:23 Originally by: dastommy79 Originally by: Daviclond they had the pos password and would have stolen it anyway no they didnt, the pos pw was changed. Its a exploit like pos bowling was. Who changed it ? A RA ? "It was changed", lol @ this. It was changed by you. They human ingeneered your pos owner, this is the true story :) Just to know, because this bump is not a bug. It's a classic feat. It is there since I play. Here again something I learned among the 45453143443 things I learnt fighing vs Morsus Mihi and Razor in Tribute last year. Complain to devs you were scammed is okay. The only thing I don't understand is you found a dev they didn't knew this feature. Unboarded ships have pos pw flagged void after next DT. Anchored ships still use the pass you gave to them until you change the pos pw. It's a feature. To prevent ppl to go in your corp, put a gazillion ships in your pos and enjoy the lag. It's a feature. Or else why use pos pw "I'm from the corp" should be okay. I lost a dozen of T1 fregates like this last year. Should I petition as well ? 2isk
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:26:00 - [162] Originally by: Zanarkand Originally by: Razin Edited by: Razin on 14/01/2008 15:08:53 Originally by: Shimrod Wow the Reds exploiting game mechanics who would have ever thought... EVE is designed as a sandbox, a set of tools to use as players see fit. Many of those tools aren't even properly documented in any official capacity. It follows, that since gameplay is open by design, that there is nothing wrong with utilizing available game mechanics to the fullest extent. Unless you're a sheep making excuses for your favorite side. Then you call it "exploiting". The whole t20 thing was some unfair "exploit, exploit!" whine by goons/d2??? Are you somehow implying that a player using an admittedly obscure game mechanic is the same as a dev using dev tools to spawn valuable items for his alliance? ...
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:27:00 - [163] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Who changed it ? A RA ? "It was changed", lol @ this. It was changed by you. They human ingeneered your pos owner, this is the true story :) Just to know, because this bump is not a bug. It's a classic feat. It is there since I play. Here again something I learned among the 45453143443 things I learnt fighing vs Morsus Mihi and Razor in Tribute last year. Complain to devs you were scammed is okay. The only thing I don't understand is you found a dev they didn't knew this feature. Unboarded ships have pos pw flagged void after next DT. Anchored ships still use the pass you gave to them until you change the pos pw. It's a feature. To prevent ppl to go in your corp, put a gazillion ships in your pos and enjoy the lag. It's a feature. Or else why use pos pw "I'm from the corp" should be okay. I lost a dozen of T1 fregates like this last year. Should I petition as well ? I suppose it might be one of those things that gets lost in translation, but "warp to a POS without proper pw set, being thrown out of POS and ganked" is not the same as "launch titan from array, watch titan blow through space at 5km/s and end up 200km from passworded POS free to be stolen by anyone". The first is an intended game mechanic. The second, as evidenced by the GM intervening, is not. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Knocturnal omen. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:28:00 - [164] If a BOB would have done this to a russian alliance any other entity ... CAOD would go mad with 23423423432423 posts and every one would scream exploit and all kinda of stuff ... I know a ra dude that was so ******** and got scammed for nyx when they still were going for 30b then he petioned and he got it back .. . did somebody whine about that NO. F*ck Derek we got Xlop.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:29:00 - [165] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Who changed it ? A RA ? "It was changed", lol @ this. It was changed by you. They human ingeneered your pos owner, this is the true story :) Just to know, because this bump is not a bug. It's a classic feat. It is there since I play. Here again something I learned among the 45453143443 things I learnt fighing vs Morsus Mihi and Razor in Tribute last year. Complain to devs you were scammed is okay. The only thing I don't understand is you found a dev they didn't knew this feature. Unboarded ships have pos pw flagged void after next DT. Anchored ships still use the pass you gave to them until you change the pos pw. It's a feature. To prevent ppl to go in your corp, put a gazillion ships in your pos and enjoy the lag. It's a feature. Or else why use pos pw "I'm from the corp" should be okay. I lost a dozen of T1 fregates like this last year. Should I petition as well ? I suppose it might be one of those things that gets lost in translation, but "warp to a POS without proper pw set, being thrown out of POS and ganked" is not the same as "launch titan from array, watch titan blow through space at 5km/s and end up 200km from passworded POS free to be stolen by anyone". The first is an intended game mechanic. The second, as evidenced by the GM intervening, is not. Documentation for teh lazy 2isk
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:31:00 - [166] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Documentation for teh lazy Yes, it is a very nice link. It is, however, completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:40:00 - [167] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 14/01/2008 18:41:09 Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 14/01/2008 18:40:33 Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Documentation for teh lazy Yes, it is a very nice link. It is, however, completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Come on, you're smart enough to understand it without me, let me quote the important part : Originally by: the official FAQ If the password was the only reason the ship had a right to be inside the starbase then the ship will be ejected from the force field. Anybody will then be free to board the ship and claim it. It was a pw protected pos, therefore the ships inside had pos access : 1 - per corp pilot if ships were piloted 2 - per password. The titan had no pilot so the only reason it could stay in the pos is the pw. Then the pos owner reseted the password. Well. It's not RA's fault who spyied the pos owner or haxz00rz teh forum. It's a human fault. Like Shrike did, like Cyvok did, like this guy from D¦ did, like Seleene did. 2isk
Hrin Minmatar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:41:00 - [168] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Documentation for teh lazy Yes, it is a very nice link. It is, however, completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. its seems quite relavent to me. If it was any other ship but a Titan, they would have been SOL. They changed the password on their POS and kicked out the titan when they launched it. This is completely in keeping with game mechanics and what should have been expected as per the above link. The only reason it was returned was because it was a Titan.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:49:00 - [169] Originally by: Hrin Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Documentation for teh lazy Yes, it is a very nice link. It is, however, completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. its seems quite relavent to me. If it was any other ship but a Titan, they would have been SOL. They changed the password on their POS and kicked out the titan when they launched it. This is completely in keeping with game mechanics and what should have been expected as per the above link. The only reason it was returned was because it was a Titan. I think the only reasons it was returned is because the GM didn't knew. This is the typical things that should be petitioned in the internal affairs. 2isk
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:03:00 - [170] Edited by: Ki An on 14/01/2008 19:06:04 Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Come on, you're smart enough to understand it without me, let me quote the important part : Originally by: the official FAQ If the password was the only reason the ship had a right to be inside the starbase then the ship will be ejected from the force field. Anybody will then be free to board the ship and claim it. It was a pw protected pos, therefore the ships inside had pos access : 1 - per corp pilot if ships were piloted 2 - per password. The titan had no pilot so the only reason it could stay in the pos is the pw. Then the pos owner reseted the password. Well. It's not RA's fault who spyied the pos owner or haxz00rz teh forum. It's a human fault. Like Shrike did, like Cyvok did, like this guy from D¦ did, like Seleene did. Originally by: your link A ship left unpiloted in space will have its starbase force field password cleared during the daily downtime. The ship was NOT left unpiloted in space. It was in a capital array. The ship was launched and just bounced out of the POS. Where in the link you provided does it say that "super capital ships launched from their arrays will shoot 200km out of the POS, so you should have a pilot on standby there"? Hint: It doesn't, because it's not intended to happen. Edit: Quote: The titan had no pilot so the only reason it could stay in the pos is the pw. Then the pos owner reseted the password. Where did you read that the password of the POS was changed after the Titan was launched? I certainly couldn't find it written anywhere in this thread. Are you saying XXxXXxXLegionofWhateverXXxxXX had an inside guy that changed the POS pw after the titan was launched? Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Antonia Frak	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:28:00 - [171] Edited by: Antonia Frak on 14/01/2008 19:29:36 Originally by: Ki An The ship was NOT left unpiloted in space. It was in a capital array. The ship was launched and just bounced out of the POS. If the titan was bounced from the pos unpiloted, then there must be a lapse of time when it was unpiloted inside the bubble. I guess your pilot launched it from the capital array by boarding it, then left the ship to give it to the buyer, at that precise moment the titan, if it hadn't any password, should bounce off the pos. Or something like that, I'm not sure, those POS mechanics are ****.
Taison Xenobytes Stain Empire	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:34:00 - [172] Originally by: Antonia Frak Edited by: Antonia Frak on 14/01/2008 19:29:36 Originally by: Ki An The ship was NOT left unpiloted in space. It was in a capital array. The ship was launched and just bounced out of the POS. If the titan was bounced from the pos unpiloted, then there must be a lapse of time when it was unpiloted inside the bubble. I guess your pilot launched it from the capital array by boarding it, then left the ship to give it to the buyer, at that precise moment the titan, if it hadn't any password, should bounce off the pos. Or something like that, I'm not sure, those POS mechanics are ****. U know what the irony is? They did NOT have any pilot who could jump in this thing. So after the bump, that thing was supposed just to hang aroud the space as there was no way they could bring it back to dock. Thats the irony! If XiX woldnt have boarded it - it would just hang out in space as there was no pilot for it from the sellers site!!! Even not bumped away - the titan would hang at the pos without a pilot.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:35:00 - [173] Originally by: Antonia Frak Edited by: Antonia Frak on 14/01/2008 19:29:36 Originally by: Ki An The ship was NOT left unpiloted in space. It was in a capital array. The ship was launched and just bounced out of the POS. If the titan was bounced from the pos unpiloted, then there must be a lapse of time when it was unpiloted inside the bubble. I guess your pilot launched it from the capital array by boarding it, then left the ship to give it to the buyer, at that precise moment the titan, if it hadn't any password, should bounce off the pos. Or something like that, I'm not sure, those POS mechanics are ***. I'm not really a part of this whole thing. Just trying to get my head around it, and note if any serious exploits are at work here. When using the timeline provided in the OP, it would seem that the Titan did indeed bounce straight out of the cap array and out of the POS. Password or no password, that's not intended. This is the only info I am basing my assumptions on. If anyone know anything else, like if there was indeed a password reset after* the Titan was launched, then we are definately talking legal, all be it lame, game mechanics. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:36:00 - [174] Originally by: Antonia Frak Edited by: Antonia Frak on 14/01/2008 19:29:36 Originally by: Ki An The ship was NOT left unpiloted in space. It was in a capital array. The ship was launched and just bounced out of the POS. If the titan was bounced from the pos unpiloted, then there must be a lapse of time when it was unpiloted inside the bubble. I guess your pilot launched it from the capital array by boarding it, then left the ship to give it to the buyer, at that precise moment the titan, if it hadn't any password, should bounce off the pos. Or something like that, I'm not sure, those POS mechanics are ****. You do not board and cannot as far as im aware board a ship in a array you need to launch it first.
She Storm Minmatar The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:43:00 - [175] Quote: You do not board and cannot as far as im aware board a ship in a array you need to launch it first. Yes you can you have 2 choices, launch ship or board ship at a SMA.
Taison Xenobytes Stain Empire	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:45:00 - [176] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: Antonia Frak Edited by: Antonia Frak on 14/01/2008 19:29:36 Originally by: Ki An The ship was NOT left unpiloted in space. It was in a capital array. The ship was launched and just bounced out of the POS. If the titan was bounced from the pos unpiloted, then there must be a lapse of time when it was unpiloted inside the bubble. I guess your pilot launched it from the capital array by boarding it, then left the ship to give it to the buyer, at that precise moment the titan, if it hadn't any password, should bounce off the pos. Or something like that, I'm not sure, those POS mechanics are ****. You do not board and cannot as far as im aware board a ship in a array you need to launch it first. And what? They launched the ship with the nowlege noone actualu could board it. Imagine after the launch - XiX would put the POS into reinforced. and then destroy it and just board the ship. they launched the ship with the knowlege only XiX could board it at this time. That was the actual stupidity
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:47:00 - [177] Originally by: She Storm Quote: You do not board and cannot as far as im aware board a ship in a array you need to launch it first. Yes you can you have 2 choices, launch ship or board ship at a SMA. Im not sure about a capital array and if you can but in the OP he clearly puts that a blue pilot was not available so even if he could board from the array the fact that he did not have the skills makes boarding not possable.
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:50:00 - [178] Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 14/01/2008 19:51:08 Originally by: Taison Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: Antonia Frak Edited by: Antonia Frak on 14/01/2008 19:29:36 Originally by: Ki An The ship was NOT left unpiloted in space. It was in a capital array. The ship was launched and just bounced out of the POS. If the titan was bounced from the pos unpiloted, then there must be a lapse of time when it was unpiloted inside the bubble. I guess your pilot launched it from the capital array by boarding it, then left the ship to give it to the buyer, at that precise moment the titan, if it hadn't any password, should bounce off the pos. Or something like that, I'm not sure, those POS mechanics are **. You do not board and cannot as far as im aware board a ship in a array you need to launch it first. And what? They launched the ship with the nowlege noone actualu could board it. Imagine after the launch - XiX would put the POS into reinforced. and then destroy it and just board the ship. they launched the ship with the knowlege only XiX could board it at this time. That was the actual stupidity The buyer was supposed to board it after** he paid lol. If RA had attacked the pos im sure the guys would have managed to get their titan pilot online and in the ship over the 2 or 3 days (depending on how much stront they put in it) for it to come out of reinforced. They could have hired a pilot in that much time dude.
Bilaz Minmatar Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:50:00 - [179] Edited by: Bilaz on 14/01/2008 19:56:09 Point is we had no choice but to use this "bad" mechanic to steal a titan, since there are NO other way for pilot not from corp/ally who bild it to get inside titan. so it was hopeless from the start, but unfortunaly it was known only to gm's & dev's - otherwise we would have just blown it to peaces and keep the killmail. even more if dmc manages to get a real pilot to evacuate titan and someone manages to kill it after boarding i expect it to be reimbursed since it will be same foul game mechanic that would allow that. question is why OP waited like, 3 weeks after event to create this thread? maybe he has something to hide? like the fact that gm's put pilot WITHOUT titan skill inside Avatar, while moving Vashi's alt in station 20+ jumps away and pilot put titan back in fitting array - so holy gm intervention was used to undo not so smart move from dmc side witch was result of convo with vashi. so..... if anyone think this something totaly different from jita scam - think again .
Taison Xenobytes Stain Empire	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:52:00 - [180] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: Taison Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: Antonia Frak Edited by: Antonia Frak on 14/01/2008 19:29:36 Originally by: Ki An The ship was NOT left unpiloted in space. It was in a capital array. The ship was launched and just bounced out of the POS. If the titan was bounced from the pos unpiloted, then there must be a lapse of time when it was unpiloted inside the bubble. I guess your pilot launched it from the capital array by boarding it, then left the ship to give it to the buyer, at that precise moment the titan, if it hadn't any password, should bounce off the pos. Or something like that, I'm not sure, those POS mechanics are ****. You do not board and cannot as far as im aware board a ship in a array you need to launch it first. And what? They launched the ship with the nowlege noone actualu could board it. Imagine after the launch - XiX would put the POS into reinforced. and then destroy it and just board the ship. they launched the ship with the knowlege only XiX could board it at this time. That was the actual stupidity If RA had attacked the pos im sure the guys would have managed to get their titan pilot online and in the ship over the 2 or 3 days (depending on how much stront they put in it) for it to come out of reinforced. They could have hired a pilot in that much time dude. They HAVE NO titan pilot. That is what was the problem. Thats why they had to ejekt it to show. I doubt they have one now.

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