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What IS wrong with destroyers?

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Kadavreski	Posted - 2008.01.14 14:45:00 - [1] I've heard and read often and a lot that destroyers are crap, and trash, but what's wrong with them? Aren't they just frigs with bigger teeth?
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.01.14 14:49:00 - [2] Yes, they are... frigs with bigger teeth, and a bigger body. In a different sense: they are a ship nearly the size of a cruiser, with the tank of a frigate. Along comes a cruiser, accidentally looks at it the wrong way, and pop goes the destroyer. They are really really paper thin for their size.
Akyla Bears Inc Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.14 14:50:00 - [3] They are big, slow frigates basically. Which means they die quickly... and unlike the frigates, they can't go very fast to dodge incoming fire. Against ONLY frigates, they're great. But it takes only 1 cruiser for them to die quickly... ________________________________ All your honey are belong to us!
Number 17 Caldari COLD-Wing The Fourth District	Posted - 2008.01.14 14:52:00 - [4] There is nothing wrong with destroyers, they are great salvaging ships. And no, fitting it full of salvagers/tractor beams is NOT an exploit.
xyeLz	Posted - 2008.01.14 14:58:00 - [5] They're not the best combat ships, but a nice step up when doing missions and you have trouble affording a 6m cruiser with a 5m fit when you just started playing. A very nice salvaging class as well. They have their uses, if a cruiser can get popped by a BC it doesn't make it a bad ship. Destroyers are far from perfect, but again, they have their uses, use them for these uses and you'll have not have to worry about flying a bad ship.
Jonny MoJo Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.14 15:04:00 - [6] Amarr destroyer has 1 midslot. In the past it could 1 volley cepters. Now it could not 1 volley itself out of a paper bag. Amarr destroyer got fixed, the t2 version, by CCP removing lasers and letting it use rockets. I hope CCP fix amarr destroyer, or people will just laugh loudly at it. Wait - they already are! Refresh for next Real life CCP Sig(21 Total)
Bronson Hughes Knights of the Wild	Posted - 2008.01.14 15:06:00 - [7] Destroyers share the same problems as the Ferox: they're intended to be anti-support snipers but they don't have enough slots or hitpoints to withstand incoming fire from anything bigger than them. They both fulfill their roles very well, but fail miserably in the face of anything bigger than them. Aside from non-combat ships, I can't think of a single T1 ship that has a role so clearly defined as Destroyers do. I'm actually fairly suprised that CCP hasn't come up with a set of tier 2 Destroyers yet. They wouldn't have the same common set of bonuses as the tier 1 Destroyers, but they would share the same general role and be considerably tougher. Basically, ships like Destroyer-sized Drakes and Hurricanes to complement Cormorants and Thrashers. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
ry ry StateCorp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.01.14 15:07:00 - [8] too much sig radius, not enough speed. *again.
Doomed Predator The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.14 15:08:00 - [9] Too big, too slow , not enough hp, not enough dps. Like a cruiser with the punch of a frig.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.14 15:11:00 - [10] Originally by: Kadavreski I've heard and read often and a lot that destroyers are crap, and trash, but what's wrong with them? Aren't they just frigs with bigger teeth? They're not really frigates with bigger teeth. Nor are they light cruisers. Unfortunately people consistently try to fly them as one or the other, and fail. Thus comes the opinion that destroyers are crap. Actually, they are awesome frigate killers on their own. Even fast interceptors doing upwards of 14 km/s go pop to a well fitted destroyer, if they don't run. The only frigate size ships that can stand up to a destroyer are assault ships, and even then it can be pretty even if the assault ship is not well tanked.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Clearspace Operations Carpe Diem.	Posted - 2008.01.14 15:17:00 - [11] amarr destroyer is actually pretty good, gets nice range with small turrets and great tracking. I have a problem with the minmatar ship. Even with destroyers V your small auto's don't reach all that far with ranged ammo in even. Not sure about the other two.
Chi Quan DEFCON. Phoenix Allianz	Posted - 2008.01.14 15:26:00 - [12] the cormorant and the catalyst are both nice anti frig platforms, if you can live without tracking mods, the cormorant also is capable of some ewar. it has godly cpu, but.. you don't have enough slots to spend it on. i heared of ppl fitting them for close range gank and having their glorious moments against cruisers, with the catalyst being the prefered one, i have never seen something like that live though. -- Tempus fugit -- quote spiralJunkie: it doesn't matter how you pronounce it, it still shoots you in the face
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.14 15:26:00 - [13] Originally by: Megan Maynard amarr destroyer is actually pretty good, gets nice range with small turrets and great tracking. I have a problem with the minmatar ship. Even with destroyers V your small auto's don't reach all that far with ranged ammo in even. Not sure about the other two. You're meant to use artillery on the Thrasher. Tech 2 250 mms with nuclear ammo, at least one tracking enhancer, a web (in case they come real close), and a target painter.
Shaemell Buttleson Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny	Posted - 2008.01.14 15:39:00 - [14] How many destroyers can you fit out for the price of a well fitted Inti? Considering a capable pilot with a Destroyer can kill an Inti and their relative cheapness I wouldn't call them crap at all. Don't know if this is still the case and I can't be bothered to use EFT but a Thrasher also had a better alphstrike than a wolf with a howie fit!
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.14 15:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Jonny MoJo Amarr destroyer has 1 midslot. In the past it could 1 volley cepters. Now it could not 1 volley itself out of a paper bag. Amarr destroyer got fixed, the t2 version, by CCP removing lasers and letting it use rockets. I hope CCP fix amarr destroyer, or people will just laugh loudly at it. Wait - they already are! Did your "Jojo" character take a forced vacation from his Amarr-whine duties on these forums? --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Number 17 Caldari COLD-Wing The Fourth District	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:04:00 - [16] Originally by: Bronson Hughes I'm actually fairly suprised that CCP hasn't come up with a set of tier 2 Destroyers yet. They wouldn't have the same common set of bonuses as the tier 1 Destroyers, but they would share the same general role and be considerably tougher. Basically, ships like Destroyer-sized Drakes and Hurricanes to complement Cormorants and Thrashers. Interdictor = T2 destroyer. OR havent you noticed those pesky little bubble blowers?
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:06:00 - [17] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 14/01/2008 16:08:43 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 14/01/2008 16:07:12 Originally by: Kadavreski I've heard and read often and a lot that destroyers are crap, and trash, but what's wrong with them? Aren't they just frigs with bigger teeth? Destroyers are OK, but could really use the same number of mids/lows as combat frigs. Otherwise, destroyers are preety good with high skills, I use a Thrasher for small-time piracy relatively often. They outdamage AFs at any rate, and are more agile then the AFs of their respective race, if you want a couple of plus points with the dessies. Originally by: Number 17 Originally by: Bronson Hughes I'm actually fairly suprised that CCP hasn't come up with a set of tier 2 Destroyers yet. They wouldn't have the same common set of bonuses as the tier 1 Destroyers, but they would share the same general role and be considerably tougher. Basically, ships like Destroyer-sized Drakes and Hurricanes to complement Cormorants and Thrashers. Interdictor = T2 destroyer. OR havent you noticed those pesky little bubble blowers? He is talking about tiers. Tiers. Not T1/T2, which stands for Tech 1 and Tech 2. Have you noticed the Megathron? It's the Gallente Tier 2 BS. Contrasted to the Kronos, which is the Gallente Tech 2 BS. I support tier 2 destroyers personally. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Bronson Hughes Knights of the Wild	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:11:00 - [18] Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 14/01/2008 16:12:28 Originally by: Number 17 Interdictor = T2 destroyer. OR havent you noticed those pesky little bubble blowers? I have and I even fly them too. I was speaking of Tier 2, not Tech 2. Like the Ferox is a Tier 1 Battlecruiser and a Drake is a Tier 2 Battlecruiser. EDIT: Yeah, that Capt Branko said. Thanks Capt. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:11:00 - [19] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 14/01/2008 16:11:49 Originally by: Hannobaal You're meant to use artillery on the Thrasher. Tech 2 250 mms with nuclear ammo, at least one tracking enhancer, a web (in case they come real close), and a target painter. I use a AC thrasher personally. It does awesome DPS considering the ship size, has a OK buffer, and isn't too slow either, since you get about 1.65km/s out of a lousy named MWD (to keep it cheap). It's a nice small-time pirating ship. outdamages AFs, basically. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Batelle HOMELESS. Band of Bums	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:12:00 - [20] tier 2 destroyers would be pretty cool. That's a Templar, the Amarr fighter. It's a combat drone used by carriers.
Raxxius Maelstrom	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:15:00 - [21] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 14/01/2008 16:08:43 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 14/01/2008 16:07:12 Originally by: Kadavreski I've heard and read often and a lot that destroyers are crap, and trash, but what's wrong with them? Aren't they just frigs with bigger teeth? Destroyers are OK, but could really use the same number of mids/lows as combat frigs. Otherwise, destroyers are preety good with high skills, I use a Thrasher for small-time piracy relatively often. They outdamage AFs at any rate, and are more agile then the AFs of their respective race, if you want a couple of plus points with the dessies. Originally by: Number 17 Originally by: Bronson Hughes I'm actually fairly suprised that CCP hasn't come up with a set of tier 2 Destroyers yet. They wouldn't have the same common set of bonuses as the tier 1 Destroyers, but they would share the same general role and be considerably tougher. Basically, ships like Destroyer-sized Drakes and Hurricanes to complement Cormorants and Thrashers. Interdictor = T2 destroyer. OR havent you noticed those pesky little bubble blowers? He is talking about tiers. Tiers. Not T1/T2, which stands for Tech 1 and Tech 2. Have you noticed the Megathron? It's the Gallente Tier 2 BS. Contrasted to the Kronos, which is the Gallente Tech 2 BS. I support tier 2 destroyers personally. I support this, Destroyers as they stand are smashed apart too fast by medium guns. They're the frigate sized equiv of battlecruisers, only they tank less than frigates. DPS of destroyers is good for the price though.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:24:00 - [22] Edited by: Hannobaal on 14/01/2008 16:26:08 Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 14/01/2008 16:11:49 Originally by: Hannobaal You're meant to use artillery on the Thrasher. Tech 2 250 mms with nuclear ammo, at least one tracking enhancer, a web (in case they come real close), and a target painter. I use a AC thrasher personally. It does awesome DPS considering the ship size, has a OK buffer, and isn't too slow either, since you get about 1.65km/s out of a lousy named MWD (to keep it cheap). It's a nice small-time pirating ship. outdamages AFs, basically. It's a nice ship with autocannons, but I can fly all tech 1 ships below battleships, and if I'm going to be using a destroyer that way, I prefer the blaster Catalyst. Can do 300 dps and more with good skills. The point is, he was complaining about range with autocannons, so obviously artillery is the thing to use then.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:28:00 - [23] Originally by: Raxxius Maelstrom I support this, Destroyers as they stand are smashed apart too fast by medium guns. They're the frigate sized equiv of battlecruisers, only they tank less than frigates. That's not really true. Their hitpoints are somewhere between frigates and cruisers. They are easier to hit though, especially the way a lot of people fit and fly them.
Bahhs Deep	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:29:00 - [24] I suport teh tear deuce destroyher CCP MAKE IT HAPPEN :D
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Hannobaal It's a nice ship with autocannons, but I can fly all tech 1 ships below battleships, and if I'm going to be using a destroyer that way, I prefer the blaster Catalyst. Can do 300 dps and more with good skills. The point is, he was complaining about range with autocannons, so obviously artillery is the thing to use then. Oh, well, obviously arties are awesome for range, but I dislike the impossibility of fitting a MSE II with a arty fit. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Durzel	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:30:00 - [26] I quite like my Cormorant, been flying it since I started playing (~1 1/2 months ago). As a one-size-fits-all ship it makes short work of Lvl 1 missions and acts as a great salvage/tractor boat too. I can see why it might be a bit gimped in other situations though.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:41:00 - [27] Destroyers are only broken if you're Gallente... which makes a pleasant change from the norm. The Cormorant can out range practically anything, the Coercer has awe-inspiring damage output for it's cost and the Thrasher goes pretty swiftly with a very pleasant alpha strike potential - small gangs of those things are really quite evil. Gallente however might as well go home as far as destroyers are concerned; the Cormorant does it's job (blasters) better than it does due to it's rather restrictive mid/low configuration. To be honest, I think the solution for these ships would be to give them all one extra slot; Cormorant getting an extra low, Coercer getting a mid, Catalyst getting a mid and the Thrasher getting a low. This would mean that impressive damage could be achieved with the Cormorant, the Coercer could tackle and still fit a speed mod, the Catalyst could actual fit an MWD to get up close and still tackle whilst the Thrasher could really zoom as it should with the now standard extender tank that zoom zoom ships fit.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:43:00 - [28] Originally by: Cedric Diggory To be honest, I think the solution for these ships would be to give them all one extra slot; Cormorant getting an extra low, Coercer getting a mid, Catalyst getting a mid and the Thrasher getting a low. This would mean that impressive damage could be achieved with the Cormorant, the Coercer could tackle and still fit a speed mod, the Catalyst could actual fit an MWD to get up close and still tackle whilst the Thrasher could really zoom as it should with the now standard extender tank that zoom zoom ships fit. I fully, 100%, completely, totally and fully support this idea. Fixes destroyers completely. Total win of a idea. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.14 17:02:00 - [29] Well, being able to fit a web on the blaster Catalyst would be nice.
Kadavreski	Posted - 2008.01.14 17:07:00 - [30] Whoa, i didn't expect half as many responses OK, i get it now - ta very much for the explaination all! (i fly a caracal so it doesn't really effect me anyway)

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