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Ruddger Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.01.14 17:20:00 - [1] Its that time of the month again. The time where we remind ourselves that some ships will go unloved forever. Heavy Interdictors - Hictors or Hactors if you prefer. They can operate in low sec using the signal focusing script. This script gives an infinite (100) lock strength. A broadsword with the pertinent skills to 5 can fit 2 sensor booster IIs with speed scripts and achieve a scan resolution of 745.5 and still tank sentry guns. A prowler has a sig of 133.77. That is a lock speed of 2.4 seconds. A prowler with 2 Istabs IIs in the lows can warp in 3.5 seconds. I'm not a carebear nor do I advocate safety in any region of EvE, high low or null. But I don't like it when the game is stacked against you either. I don't like that we got jump freighters before medium freighters. I don't like that blockade runners cant run blockades. I don't like that the solution to low sec capital ships wasn't an anti capital mod but a universal one. I don't want to turn this into a low sec rant but they have become the wastelands of some post apocalyptic nightmare too dangerous to traverse with out a wagon train 5 miles long. Blockade runners need bonus to ECM burst range and strength instead of a tanking bonus, or immunity to the sphere launcher, or a further reduced sig, or something. Don't mind my corp, I'm just between jobs atm. And don't tell me to suck it up or leave, I've already left, but I'll be back when they have fixed the mechanics to the point where undocking outside of highsec isn't playing a game of Russian roulette.
ry ry StateCorp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.01.14 17:23:00 - [2] Edited by: ry ry on 14/01/2008 17:23:27 my scout alt aligns in < 2.5 seconds. that said, i do like the idea of an ECM burst bonus on t2 indys. *again.
Karash Amerius Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.14 17:49:00 - [3] ECM burst bonus is stupid as you would most likely hit the gate/billboard and be aggressed, which obviously doesn't allow you to jump out. Being aggressed is pretty bad for a blockade runner no? "Fighting Broke" - An Ex-Merc Blog
Susa Ou	Posted - 2008.01.14 17:58:00 - [4] they just need to be able to warp before any ship can lock them - of course there is the MWD/Cloak/warp method. . .but all blockade runners need is a massive sig reduction or an agility boost.
Nidus Caldari The JORG Corporation Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:01:00 - [5] If you add polycarbon I's to the prowler and keep sticking to EFT numbers then the warp speed is down to 2.6s, and chances are that it is worth rigging a blockade runner for its purpose (getting past camps). At this point it should be close to practically impossible to catch your ship with a warp scrambler that requires a target lock, but just throw on a t2 cloak and align+speed up while using it and you can even get a normal drake past a HIC in low-sec before it got a chance to lock you (~10sec EFT warp time) ------------------- (::) - This is a cookie with chocolate chips, and it's mine! If you disagree; these are my teeth ';..;' (E6750 C2D@2,67GHz, 3gb@667Mhz, 1950Pro 512MB)
The Djego Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:01:00 - [6] Edited by: The Djego on 14/01/2008 18:01:42 I still feel preaty save in my Blockade Runner. The MWD will bring you back to the Gate or out of Scram Range in a few seconds. Also you can use MWD + Cloak. HICs are very overated against Blockade runners and still far less common that anybody likes to think. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Jonny JoJo 425 II In PVE? Surely hybrid users use Blaster in PvE.
Gunner Cid The Carebear Stare Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:09:00 - [7] Some people play what I call EvE "Special Edition" they jump their scout into the system before their hauler right? they look at pilots in local right? they scan for ships right? they see multiple hostiles in local plus ships on close scan, one of those ships is a heavy dictor...the ONE SHIP that can reliably stand a CHANCE when in a gang to tackle their blockade runner... they then proceed to jump into said system with their blockade runner. Blockade runners are already near impossible to catch in empire, my alt is in a Viator and when fitted to run camps you simply cant catch them. Even a remote sensor boosted heavy dictor with 1.5k ish scan res has a lot of trouble catching one. Your math looks good on paper but when you factor in the game enviroment/lag/module delay you wont lock one down with less than mid 4 digit scan res and a little luck, to even achieve this you need a gang.
Caffeine Junkie Celestial Frontier Inc Celestial Frontier	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:11:00 - [8] Covops cloak ? lol Quote: If you need a reminder of the deterrent effect of CONCORD, just remember the number of ships you pass in highsec that don't frag you on sight.
Caffeine Junkie Celestial Frontier Inc Celestial Frontier	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:13:00 - [9] Originally by: Ruddger Blockade runners need bonus to ECM burst range and strength instead of a tanking bonus, or immunity to the sphere launcher, or a further reduced sig, or something. I have to admit the tanking bonus on T2 indy's is fairly pointless except against NPCs, i've caught both Transport ships and blockade runners and once you've got them, the tank isn't going to help at all. Quote: If you need a reminder of the deterrent effect of CONCORD, just remember the number of ships you pass in highsec that don't frag you on sight.
Exlegion Caldari New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:23:00 - [10] Originally by: Gunner Cid Some people play what I call EvE "Special Edition" they jump their scout into the system before their hauler right? they look at pilots in local right? they scan for ships right? they see multiple hostiles in local plus ships on close scan, one of those ships is a heavy dictor...the ONE SHIP that can reliably stand a CHANCE when in a gang to tackle their blockade runner... they then proceed to jump into said system with their blockade runner. Blockade runners are already near impossible to catch in empire, my alt is in a Viator and when fitted to run camps you simply cant catch them. Even a remote sensor boosted heavy dictor with 1.5k ish scan res has a lot of trouble catching one. Your math looks good on paper but when you factor in the game enviroment/lag/module delay you wont lock one down with less than mid 4 digit scan res and a little luck, to even achieve this you need a gang. This "special edition" of yours is also known as meta-gaming and isn't healthy for the game. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru
Gunner Cid The Carebear Stare Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:30:00 - [11] Originally by: Exlegion This "special edition" of yours is also known as meta-gaming and isn't healthy for the game. No, the spec ed guy is the one that jumps. Meta-gaming may be unhealthy but all it does is simulate a friend. My point was that the camper(s) have to use teamwork to accomplish a tackle on your ship, you need to use teamwork to avoid getting tackled. A scout alt simply allows people who can manage two acconts to simulate a friend. I for one am happy my pals in game use their own scouts and that I dont have to hop into a shuttle and scout gates for them while they move high value items around low/no sec.
Agent Li Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:33:00 - [12] Originally by: Gunner Cid Some people play what I call EvE "Special Edition" they jump their scout into the system before their hauler right? they look at pilots in local right? they scan for ships right? they see multiple hostiles in local plus ships on close scan, one of those ships is a heavy dictor...the ONE SHIP that can reliably stand a CHANCE when in a gang to tackle their blockade runner... they then proceed to jump into said system with their blockade runner. Blockade runners are already near impossible to catch in empire, my alt is in a Viator and when fitted to run camps you simply cant catch them. Even a remote sensor boosted heavy dictor with 1.5k ish scan res has a lot of trouble catching one. Your math looks good on paper but when you factor in the game enviroment/lag/module delay you wont lock one down with less than mid 4 digit scan res and a little luck, to even achieve this you need a gang. At least for low sec gates, it takes a well-run camp to lock and scram me. And I'm in a Crane. Most low sec gates aren't camped in any case, and those that are are seldom camped by sufficient compentent pilots. Hats off to those that have been able to lock and scram me - most of the time, there's a lot of WTF in local when I warp away. As far as bubbles go, there is the importance of scouts, and having someone clear the camp from the other side. Otherwise, it's certain death. ------------------ Please note: No Windows System files were harmed during the creation or deployment of this patch.
Exlegion Caldari New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:36:00 - [13] Edited by: Exlegion on 14/01/2008 18:44:16 Originally by: Gunner Cid No, the spec ed guy is the one that jumps. Meta-gaming may be unhealthy but all it does is simulate a friend. My point was that the camper(s) have to use teamwork to accomplish a tackle on your ship, you need to use teamwork to avoid getting tackled. A scout alt simply allows people who can manage two acconts to simulate a friend. I for one am happy my pals in game use their own scouts and that I dont have to hop into a shuttle and scout gates for them while they move high value items around low/no sec. The problem is that your simulated "friend" has nothing to lose in this game. After all, it's really just a dummy alt. If it gets killed, nothing is lost. But information is gained. Now if a real character is being used to scout obviously that isn't meta-gaming. But using dummies with really nothing or little to lose isn't within the spirit of the game. But it's almost a moot point, given that alts are close to a necessity to beat some of the mechanics for which there aren't alternative counters to, unfortunately. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru
Megan Maynard Minmatar Clearspace Operations Carpe Diem.	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:39:00 - [14] Originally by: Ruddger Its that time of the month again. The time where we remind ourselves that some ships will go unloved forever. Heavy Interdictors - Hictors or Hactors if you prefer. They can operate in low sec using the signal focusing script. This script gives an infinite (100) lock strength. A broadsword with the pertinent skills to 5 can fit 2 sensor booster IIs with speed scripts and achieve a scan resolution of 745.5 and still tank sentry guns. A prowler has a sig of 133.77. That is a lock speed of 2.4 seconds. A prowler with 2 Istabs IIs in the lows can warp in 3.5 seconds. I'm not a carebear nor do I advocate safety in any region of EvE, high low or null. But I don't like it when the game is stacked against you either. I don't like that we got jump freighters before medium freighters. I don't like that blockade runners cant run blockades. I don't like that the solution to low sec capital ships wasn't an anti capital mod but a universal one. I don't want to turn this into a low sec rant but they have become the wastelands of some post apocalyptic nightmare too dangerous to traverse with out a wagon train 5 miles long. Blockade runners need bonus to ECM burst range and strength instead of a tanking bonus, or immunity to the sphere launcher, or a further reduced sig, or something. Don't mind my corp, I'm just between jobs atm. And don't tell me to suck it up or leave, I've already left, but I'll be back when they have fixed the mechanics to the point where undocking outside of highsec isn't playing a game of Russian roulette. Quit *****ing, learn to fly ships not just f1-f8 everything. Oh and if you are worried, fit a cloak. Heavy dictors are SLOW.
Gunner Cid The Carebear Stare Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.01.14 18:46:00 - [15] Well we could argue this all day, I have 3 accounts 2 @ 30m sp 1 @25m sp, when I scout with any of them its in a cov ops so if it gets killed something is lost. I do agree that it isnt healthy for the game but it is necessary if you want accomplish multiple goals in a short amount of time. Without derailing the topic further, my point is that it takes teamwork to tackle and kill a blockade runner (unless ofc the pilot is a fool) so you in turn need to use teamwork(via your alt or friend) to avoid getting killed, it is a MMO after all.
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.14 20:08:00 - [16] Quote: Blockade runners are already near impossible to catch in empire, my alt is in a Viator and when fitted to run camps you simply cant catch them. And a crane...?
Gunner Cid The Carebear Stare Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.01.14 20:18:00 - [17] Edited by: Gunner Cid on 14/01/2008 20:20:35 I have never flown a crane. Originally by: Agent Li At least for low sec gates, it takes a well-run camp to lock and scram me. And I'm in a Crane. Evidently it works fine for him. If you need me to EFT warrior you a fit here you go Mwd 1 Nano II 1 Istab II 2 low friction rigs Agility Implant 2.8 sec align and warp time according to EFT, hope this helps you.
Riho Drop of Blood	Posted - 2008.01.14 20:22:00 - [18] Originally by: Ulstan Quote: Blockade runners are already near impossible to catch in empire, my alt is in a Viator and when fitted to run camps you simply cant catch them. And a crane...? crane sucks.... i trained that first on my alt and used it for 3 weeks.... excatly the time it took me to train amarr industrial 5 :P Prorator is the pwnage whit 4 lows :) ---------------------------------- Seems that there's a new game that seems to be very popular whit whiners these days. Its called EFT Online. dont listen those people.. as they dont have a clue
Ruddger Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:16:00 - [19] So general consensus so far: 1. Use an alt. I don't care if you call this meta gaming or not, if you like it or not, or anything else for that matter. Using an alt negates the whole point of even having a blockade runner. Why buy that ship if you could just fly a normal hauler and use an alt scout. 2. Cloak/MWD. Cloak has the same problem as an alt scout. Blockade runners have no more ability or benefit than any other indy ship if the solution is running a cloak. MWD is the same boat, and quite frankly when I hit a gate camp MWDs don't always cut it especially if I have fit for agility not speed. Tack on to that the gate lag we have all encountered giving you a very nice message about session changes already in progress while your hull melts away. 3. Add more agility stuff, specifically rigs. Ok, fair enough, but then what is the point of the T2 tanking bonus and the +2 pt role bonus? If the blockade runners ability is a high agility than make that the bonus and make it competitive. I'm not saying that Heavy Dictors have broken blockade runners, blockade runners were already broken. But now they are broken and have an anti role counterpart. As for ECM causing gate agro, perfect. If I have to sacrifice 15 min flying around a system making safes and never standing still, I think that is great. I am an advocate of pilots actually having to pilot their ships and consequences for powerful abilities, but right now Blockade runners have no abilities.
Kroma BaSyl Amarr Snickers Inc	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:41:00 - [20] Originally by: Ruddger So general consensus so far: 2. Cloak/MWD. Cloak has the same problem as an alt scout. Blockade runners have no more ability or benefit than any other indy ship if the solution is running a cloak. MWD is the same boat, and quite frankly when I hit a gate camp MWDs don't always cut it especially if I have fit for agility not speed. Tack on to that the gate lag we have all encountered giving you a very nice message about session changes already in progress while your hull melts away. You aren't doing it right then. It is MWD then cloak, when MWD cycle ends uncloak and insta warp. T2 haulers are still pretty much invulnerable in low sec with this method. HICs haven't changed this at all. That said BRs still have worthless bonuses. Kroma BaSyl CEO - Snickers Inc Don't hate me because I am beautiful!
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:46:00 - [21] Can we stop reposting the same thread over and over? This has been discussed for a few months now (well before trinity even frickin launched), and everything points to the BR pilot sucking. Cloak + mwd trick still works. The hic will need multiple gang mates to kill you (a webber, a remote booster, a HIC obviously, a dpser) just to have a chance at catching a BR that isn't stupid enough to load up on cargo expanders. Not to mention having a pod alt or friend will make you invicible. But of course, using tactics isn't for idiots that complain about their ships being blue instead of black, or in this case a ship that does its role perfectly.
Ruddger Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:47:00 - [22] Edited by: Ruddger on 14/01/2008 21:54:49 Originally by: Kroma BaSyl You aren't doing it right then. It is MWD then cloak, when MWD cycle ends uncloak and insta warp. T2 haulers are still pretty much invulnerable in low sec with this method. HICs haven't changed this at all. That said BRs still have worthless bonuses. What ship cant I do that with? Cloaking there is no role bonus, I could do it with a standard hauler, including the "insta warp." MWDing I'm referring to when you have to burn back to the gate because they are already on you, be it from targeting, decloaking, or smartbombing, or even 0.0 bubbles. If anything 0.0 camps are real blockades and BRs are definitely worthless there. Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Can we stop reposting the same thread over and over? This has been discussed for a few months now (well before trinity even frickin launched), and everything points to the BR pilot sucking. Cloak + mwd trick still works. The hic will need multiple gang mates to kill you (a webber, a remote booster, a HIC obviously, a dpser) just to have a chance at catching a BR that isn't stupid enough to load up on cargo expanders. Not to mention having a pod alt or friend will make you invicible. But of course, using tactics isn't for idiots that complain about their ships being blue instead of black, or in this case a ship that does its role perfectly. Yes, they suck. That is why we talk about it. That is why even when it is swept under the rug we bring it back. This isn't a matter of opinions that will die out after a month or two, I think there is a general consensus that BRs have no role, no reason to exist. And has CCP ever fixed something that the community hasn't talked about? The MD forums don't get nearly as much action as S&M and they are still waiting for any changes to happen to market mechanics. Also we are not talking 1v1 here. Of course there are is a whole gang at the gate. And the HIC isn't the main problem, its just a new one to add to the list. This is also a case of read before you post. Please address issue of alts negating the whole role of BRs if you want to use that argument.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:02:00 - [23] Originally by: Ruddger Edited by: Ruddger on 14/01/2008 21:54:49 Originally by: Kroma BaSyl You aren't doing it right then. It is MWD then cloak, when MWD cycle ends uncloak and insta warp. T2 haulers are still pretty much invulnerable in low sec with this method. HICs haven't changed this at all. That said BRs still have worthless bonuses. What ship cant I do that with? Cloaking there is no role bonus, I could do it with a standard hauler, including the "insta warp." MWDing I'm referring to when you have to burn back to the gate because they are already on you, be it from targeting, decloaking, or smartbombing, or even 0.0 bubbles. If anything 0.0 camps are real blockades and BRs are definitely worthless there. Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Can we stop reposting the same thread over and over? This has been discussed for a few months now (well before trinity even frickin launched), and everything points to the BR pilot sucking. Cloak + mwd trick still works. The hic will need multiple gang mates to kill you (a webber, a remote booster, a HIC obviously, a dpser) just to have a chance at catching a BR that isn't stupid enough to load up on cargo expanders. Not to mention having a pod alt or friend will make you invicible. But of course, using tactics isn't for idiots that complain about their ships being blue instead of black, or in this case a ship that does its role perfectly. Yes, they suck. That is why we talk about it. That is why even when it is swept under the rug we bring it back. This isn't a matter of opinions that will die out after a month or two, I think there is a general consensus that BRs have no role, no reason to exist. And has CCP ever fixed something that the community hasn't talked about? The MD forums don't get nearly as much action as S&M and they are still waiting for any changes to happen to market mechanics. Also we are not talking 1v1 here. Of course there are is a whole gang at the gate. And the HIC isn't the main problem, its just a new one to add to the list. This is also a case of read before you post. Please address issue of alts negating the whole role of BRs if you want to use that argument. Uh? How would an alt negate the role of a BR? Your alt sees a gang on the gate. You see no pilot that can tackle your BR, so it jumps in. You think that you could do that with a regular hauler. Incorrect. If you saw that same gang, you would not be able to pass through it with a normal industrial. The alt tells you wether or not your BR can pass the camp. An industrial would only be able to pass a 1-2 man gate camp if it had a full wrack of warp core stabs. A t1 industrial can't do the mwd+cloak trick, because it takes a minute or two before it even hits max speed.
Max Essen Gallente Serenity Engineering and Transport Company deadspace society	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:14:00 - [24] Interesting ... someone mentioned a "Medium Freighter" idea .... Is that on the drawing boards or just a wish? Real Men Structure-Tank
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:17:00 - [25] Originally by: Max Essen Interesting ... someone mentioned a "Medium Freighter" idea .... Is that on the drawing boards or just a wish? Someone who wants the game to be more linear and less logical. For reference, itty 5 is probably the medium freighter. 50k cargo bay.
Frater Patroabo Gallente Old Home Fill-Em-Up and Keep On Truckin	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:20:00 - [26] Originally by: Ruddger I don't like that we got jump freighters before medium freighters. I don't like that blockade runners cant run blockades. Hear hear!! As a professional truck driver, I have choices between two extremes: a Viator with maybe one or two expanders which might get me to 8,000m3 and still have a chance to stay alive; an Occator that I can max out to maybe 18,000 or 20,000 and have the speed of a squashed armadillo, or an Itty V maxed out with expanders at 25,000 m3 but naked as a baby -- anyone in a newbie ship could take me out if I am not paying attention. Then on the other extreme we have freighters, which can carry the entire bull**** output of the Gallente Legislature at once, but cost more than it costs to bribe the same legislature. There are no durable ships in the 25,000 - 50,000 m3 range. And that annoys me.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:20:00 - [27] Crane needs 4 more powergrid. All the transport ships need a bit more thought as to a 'useful' bonus on transport ships skill. Otherwise though, blockade runners are ok. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Frater Patroabo Gallente Old Home Fill-Em-Up and Keep On Truckin	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:25:00 - [28] Edited by: Frater Patroabo on 14/01/2008 22:26:25 Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Max Essen For reference, itty 5 is probably the medium freighter. 50k cargo bay. So who do I have to bl... I mean, what do I need to do to get my itty 5 up to 50K? Best I can do now, even with TII extenders is 26K and a little bit. What skills, implants, rigs, or bribes am I missing?
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:27:00 - [29] Originally by: Frater Patroabo Originally by: Ruddger I don't like that we got jump freighters before medium freighters. I don't like that blockade runners cant run blockades. Hear hear!! As a professional truck driver, I have choices between two extremes: a Viator with maybe one or two expanders which might get me to 8,000m3 and still have a chance to stay alive; an Occator that I can max out to maybe 18,000 or 20,000 and have the speed of a squashed armadillo, or an Itty V maxed out with expanders at 25,000 m3 but naked as a baby -- anyone in a newbie ship could take me out if I am not paying attention. Then on the other extreme we have freighters, which can carry the entire bull**** output of the Gallente Legislature at once, but cost more than it costs to bribe the same legislature. There are no durable ships in the 25,000 - 50,000 m3 range. And that annoys me. Itty 5 with all cargo 2s, rigs, and secure containers will give it about a 50,000m3 bay. And it is still probably more durable than a medium freighter would be. Back on topic, BRs are fine. If you put a cargo expander on it, you arn't flying it currectly.
Zo5o Gallente Longcat is Long	Posted - 2008.01.14 23:03:00 - [30] Quote: A t1 industrial can't do the mwd+cloak trick, because it takes a minute or two before it even hits max speed. This is incorrect. MWD+cloak trick works for me in an Itty 5 with several expanders.

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