Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Arling Fesk
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Posted - 2008.01.15 16:54:00 -
[31]
What about making newbie ships incapable of illegal acts?
That would still allow all of the above to be done for very little money, but remove the ZERO cost option.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.01.15 16:57:00 -
[32]
IF they show up, move to another belt. If they show up again, move again. When they show up the third time, move systems. If they show up again, petition for harassment.
That works too, depending on what GM you pull.
Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
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Arkady Roskov
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Posted - 2008.01.15 16:58:00 -
[33]
Thanks for the info Anaalys, I'll definetely keep that in mind in future thank you.
For the other idea of making Rookie ships incapable of illegal acts, its a good idea but the mechanics of it would be hard to implement for CCP I Guess, but its still an idea to bounce around, thats the point of this thread so thank you :D |
Garat Mant
Minmatar Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2008.01.15 16:59:00 -
[34]
Please reference This Thread --
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Arkady Roskov
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Posted - 2008.01.15 17:01:00 -
[35]
I saw that thread the other day also,thank you for the link. But it raises the question is that legitimate or is it griefing ? to refer back to my earlier question in this thread. There just seems to be a lot of grey area regarding this entire issue ie if in that case if the person is making no ISK then is it griefing ?
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Westly Synpa
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.01.15 17:03:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Primnproper If your podding them theres still an isk loss, the price of a new clone....
well you obviously make your pilot fit into an alpha clone.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.01.15 17:15:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Westly Synpa
Originally by: Primnproper If your podding them theres still an isk loss, the price of a new clone....
well you obviously make your pilot fit into an alpha clone.
WHich pretty much means that the whole point is mute...
Beginning characters, in n00b ships, even with standard (non-civilian) equipment are still pitifully weak. Max dps from one would be in the order of around 10 dps with no tanking ability? A decently fitted tier 3 cruiser should be able to hold against 20-25 of them while it one-volleys enough to get away. T1 barges might be in some danger, but they don't belong unescorted in lowsec/0.0 anyways and as long as they don't re-flip the can (who jet can mines anymore as it is) they can't be attacked in High Sec since 100 n00b ships can't put out enough DPS to drop even a retriever before Concord vaporizes all of them.
The only "problem" with them is alts using them to scout, which isn't a problem since they are slower and easier to pop than a shuttle and ALWAYS killed when seen in LowSec or 0.0
I don't see the point of the gripe, it doesn't meet game mechanics in a useable way and seems more hypothetical....
Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
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Arctur Ceti
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Posted - 2008.01.15 17:24:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Arctur Ceti on 15/01/2008 17:26:50 this thread smells like a United whine.
"can flipping/stealing from miners" - what exactly can a noob alt accomplish against a miner that a main on a better/more powerful ship wouldn't be able to?
"0.0/low sec theft" - kill the alt. afterall, if it's an alt it can't do much, right?
"General harrassment of corps using mains to war dec and keeping rookie characters in the corp to prolong it and using them to harrass industrial characters." - what? how is a war being prolonged if rookies are in it? how are industrial characters being harassed? seriously, what are you even talking about here?
is this about "The United" being pwn'd by noobs lately? is this because gatecampers are being camped themselves? are lil bears hawassing you back?
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Tammarr
Trident RMBK Rough Necks
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Posted - 2008.01.15 17:27:00 -
[39]
hehe, the moment I read the op I tought the very same thing. A 'the united' whine. Camping in rancer going well? ^^
Theres a thread in C&P about it a quick rundown is: A player got poped by pirate lowsec gatecamp... and decided to use his ibis to loot the wrecks of industrials etc the pirates shoot down from that point on. Going to such lengths that the pirates started camping his ibis in station so he would leave. Dont we all just love pirates whining about someone stealing from wrecks? ^^
Nerfing carriers and most everything nice for a t2 freighter that should be tier 2 isnt balancing ccp :( |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2008.01.15 17:28:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Primnproper If your podding them theres still an isk loss, the price of a new clone....
I see you never tried podding a can flipper or a loot thief. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
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Cygnus Scott
Caldari Ministry of Funny Walks
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Posted - 2008.01.15 17:35:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Arkady Roskov Edited by: Arkady Roskov on 15/01/2008 16:48:16 Wrangler, I see your point thanks. However as I asked a couple of posts back - for the sole purporse of hassling someone in the game using trial accounts repeatedly with the no ISK loss process, isn't that unfair on more seasoned players ? Regardless of how many times you could shoot someone they just keep coming back etc ?
And for the Band of Brothers member - I am sure it was your Alliance that complained about another Alliance swarming your POS's with Rookie ships, so if this thread is '' lol '' Then surely what happened to you illustrates how it can be '' utilised ''
The longer you go on the more this sounds like a whine post to me.
Its not an exploit. With 800k SP and a n00bship most pilots aren't a threat to any player with half a brain. If you outfit a noobship with T2 stuff or have a veteran pilot fly it your 0ISK and 0 risk premise dies since A) Tech II costs money B) you pod them they lose implants(if they have them) and the clone. Now if they should forget to buy a new clone...well you've hurt them in the worst way I can imagine.
Can you use freshly minted alts to swarm something? Sure, but there are ways to deal with that, except for the lag it will generate of course.
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Arana Tellen
Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2008.01.15 17:43:00 -
[42]
Battlebarges (or mine in a domi ) ---------------------------------
Oh noes! |
Arctur Ceti
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Posted - 2008.01.15 17:46:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Primnproper If your podding them theres still an isk loss, the price of a new clone....
I see you never tried podding a can flipper or a loot thief.
if you're having problems podding a noob alt on a noob/starter frig i dont know what to tell ya.
"omg starter frigs are overpowered!!"
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Arkady Roskov
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Posted - 2008.01.15 17:51:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Arkady Roskov on 15/01/2008 17:51:08 As usual a perfectly legitimate thread is hijacked by a few wanting to flame bait, I am not going to lower myself to your level.
Still the question remains about griefing and it hasn't been answered, rather more people just wanting to throw accusations around about alts and the like because I guess, its easier to be tough behind a PC than actually put forward some legitimate, reasonable comments.
And FYI I am a Miner, not a Pirate like those in the united so it goes to show what throwing assumptions around does. My main concern was those who do can flipping the other issues raised were examples of how to clarify if it is an exploit, if not is it griefing as I asked and others clarified that [ ie if they follow you through several belts and systems ]
Either way, since the discussion is now hijacked by trolls and got enough information from a few decent people [ Thank you, you know who you are ] I'll let sleeping dogs be.
Thank you to those who actually discussed the topic.
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Ursula LeGuinn
Versus Gloria Omnis
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Posted - 2008.01.15 17:55:00 -
[45]
Who cares whether people use rookie ships for harassment or not?
You can buy a tier 1 frigate for 35,000 ISK (or buy the BPOs for them and make them yourself). I've only been playing this game for a month, and I wipe my arse with 35,000 ISK. In fact, stopping to pick up 35,000 ISK on my way to a mission would COST me money.
And isn't the basic uninsured insurance payout 90,000 ISK? Which would easily cover the cost of a T1 frigate bought from the market and fitted with basic modules?
I fail to see any redeeming quality in this entire thread.
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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2008.01.15 17:57:00 -
[46]
sucks but yeah, nothing you can do about it. ccp will jump in 5 seconds and declare using alliances to avoid wars is an exploit but you won't hear anything from them on this i'm afraid. they are easy to avoid, though. the only way you'd really be in danger is if you are actively jet-canning your ore with no one nearby to scoop it up.
alts are the best but get other people to help if not. 1x barge, 1x hauler (web/scramb/tank) and a command ship aligned nearby but off-grid. as soon as they flip the can, warp in the command ship and have the hauler web/scramb. (make sure everyone is in same corp)
can put something else in place of command ship but CS can pump bonus when there is no threat. I <3 empire.. usually. |
Arctur Ceti
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Posted - 2008.01.15 17:59:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Arctur Ceti on 15/01/2008 18:01:16
Originally by: Arkady Roskov Edited by: Arkady Roskov on 15/01/2008 17:51:08 As usual a perfectly legitimate thread is hijacked by a few wanting to flame bait, I am not going to lower myself to your level.
Still the question remains about griefing and it hasn't been answered, rather more people just wanting to throw accusations around about alts and the like because I guess, its easier to be tough behind a PC than actually put forward some legitimate, reasonable comments.
And FYI I am a Miner, not a Pirate like those in the united so it goes to show what throwing assumptions around does. My main concern was those who do can flipping the other issues raised were examples of how to clarify if it is an exploit, if not is it griefing as I asked and others clarified that [ ie if they follow you through several belts and systems ]
Either way, since the discussion is now hijacked by trolls and got enough information from a few decent people [ Thank you, you know who you are ] I'll let sleeping dogs be.
Thank you to those who actually discussed the topic.
reread my post. ill rephrase:
suppose alts dissappeared as of today. how would you fend off someone flipping your can today? how would attacking an older player be any easier than fighting a noob on a rookie ship? you still havent answered my question. why arent you using drones or a weapon? it doesnt matter if its an alt or older player they still aggress the same. if its a rookie on a rookie ship they should be EASIER to kill. are you sure this is about mining?
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Susan Acid
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Posted - 2008.01.15 18:01:00 -
[48]
It's a Rookie ship ffs.It does pathetic damage,has no tank and is being flown by a Character with basic SP.What threat does it pose?
If someone is stupid enough to be jetcan mining they have no cause to complain if someone steals it.If it's flipped and they are angry or stupid enough to attack the Noob ship and get themselves Concorded then it's their own fault.
0.0 loot theft in a Velator is a problem for who exactly?.
Lo sec loot theft will flag them.So shoot them.It's the same for everybody.
Harrasment of Corps?Well,they are just planting Spies tbh.
Did you ever think that there may be genuine Newbs out there who like to flip cans/fly to 0.0 to steal loot?
You make it sound like this is a huge problem and it isn't. Personally I think you are either a member of the campers crying in C & P or someone trying to make them look more stupid than they do in the other thread.
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Arkady Roskov
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Posted - 2008.01.15 18:09:00 -
[49]
It is about mining and sure, I get quite annoyed at people constantly trying to steal and getting me flagged in a rookie ship then I get shot at because they turn out to be bait, then being followed around after. Is that a bad thing to be annoyed ? However I am in a no win situation when I say that because some here will say stop whining, when I raise a question I get accusations of being an alt for some Pirate corp. If you truly believe that then that is your choice like I could believe you are alts for somebody else ? a rival of theirs or maybe even in that corp ? who knows.
All I asked is what qualifies as an exploit and if it is not an exploit, is it griefing.
Again, thank you to those who gave information, and to those who wished to try and cause an argument, good luck in other threads with other people.
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Arana Tellen
Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2008.01.15 18:11:00 -
[50]
This is what corps are for, have friends that can step in and help. That's your best option. ---------------------------------
Oh noes! |
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Tinka Toy
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Posted - 2008.01.15 18:11:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Arkady Roskov Edited by: Arkady Roskov on 15/01/2008 17:51:08
Thank you to those who actually discussed the topic.
What is there to discuss? Eve is not a cookie cutter MMOG with massive EULA guidelines restricting player actions. Eve is a sandbox, and while some people will be happy sitting in the corner making sandcastles, others are just as happy coming up and throwing sand in your face. You personally dislike the people throwing sand in you face, and instead of finding a way to fight back you come here and cry about it trying to convince the devs to make throwing sand in your face an exploit.
Go to back to wow, or eq or some other MMOG where you have GMs holding your hand.
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.01.15 18:15:00 -
[52]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler This is currently not considered an exploit though.
Maybe you should reconsider.
Rhaegor Stormborn Fleet Admiral - The Volition Cult |
Arana Tellen
Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2008.01.15 18:27:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
Originally by: CCP Wrangler This is currently not considered an exploit though.
Maybe you should reconsider.
There are many perfectly usable counters to this. Double baiting is one, if people "grief" you this way in a system (which is likely full anyway) get in your corp mates aligned to you in a gang. As soon as you take the bait and they warp in, your friends warp in and the battle starts propper. ---------------------------------
Oh noes! |
Arctur Ceti
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Posted - 2008.01.15 18:27:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Arkady Roskov It is about mining and sure, I get quite annoyed at people constantly trying to steal and getting me flagged in a rookie ship then I get shot at because they turn out to be bait, then being followed around after. Is that a bad thing to be annoyed ? However I am in a no win situation when I say that because some here will say stop whining, when I raise a question I get accusations of being an alt for some Pirate corp. If you truly believe that then that is your choice like I could believe you are alts for somebody else ? a rival of theirs or maybe even in that corp ? who knows.
All I asked is what qualifies as an exploit and if it is not an exploit, is it griefing.
Again, thank you to those who gave information, and to those who wished to try and cause an argument, good luck in other threads with other people.
see, its what you're saying that leads me to believe either you're trolling or you just dont know how the game mechanics work. you're saying that rookie alt is serving as bait. lets see if i have this right:
you're mining rookie flips your can you shoot at rookie the rookie's corp mates shoot at you and follow you around?
did i get it right?
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Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.01.15 18:30:00 -
[55]
No, the problem lies in the fact that a noob ship can pop jetcans at no loss of isk. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Arana Tellen
Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2008.01.15 18:36:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Pwett No, the problem lies in the fact that a noob ship can pop jetcans at no loss of isk.
Jetcans are not meant for mining, so technically CCP can argue use other cans. ---------------------------------
Oh noes! |
Sleazy P
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Posted - 2008.01.15 18:37:00 -
[57]
1) Don't jetcan mine. Use achored secure cans with a decent password. Then no one can flip your mining can.
2) If they are stealing your NPC loot remember it's not your loot until it's in your ships hold. Until that point its anyones to pick up. There are no sparklies indicating it's your mob to loot like other games.
Quote: because I always want to move on, get the next shiny thing so to speak
Forget this notion in Eve. it's not how the game works and it's what makes Eve better than every other MMO out there.
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Arctur Ceti
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Posted - 2008.01.15 18:38:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Arctur Ceti on 15/01/2008 18:40:36
Originally by: Pwett No, the problem lies in the fact that a noob ship can pop jetcans at no loss of isk.
then perhaps use secure cans? btw tier 1 frigs can just as easily pop them as well. and they cost peanuts. and i still dont see how whos flying them makes a difference since you cant pod in secure space anyway (unless at war). how would getting rid of rookie alts help here without breaking other game mechanics?
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Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2008.01.15 18:40:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Del Narveux on 15/01/2008 18:41:12 I see the OP's point, it is a bit too risk free to flip a miners can (though Ive gotten reports that you can be podded now...is this true?). The can-flagging system definitely has some serious problems, but its still better than the old system where cans got randomly stolen/destroyed with no means of retaliation.
Theres a really simple solution to all this, not sure why it hasnt been implemented but Ill repost it here since CCP is apparently watching (wassup wrangler). Make a new type of secure can that when anchored in space, can hold something like 15km3 of ore but only ore and cant hold anything when not in space (should only take up like 1000m3 so theyre easy to deploy).
Boom, problem solved. Anchorable, secure container that unlike normal secures has enough capacity to make it a worthwhile alternative to jetcan mining and, by extension, other means of making money like missions and trade.
edit: if they should still be vulnerable to flippers for balance or whatever, make them hackable but hacking flags you...so you cant just flip and run, gotta stick around for a bit and thus be yourself vulnerable to counterattack _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.01.15 18:52:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Arctur Ceti [ btw tier 1 frigs can just as easily pop them as well. and they cost peanuts. and i still dont see how whos flying them makes a difference since you cant pod in secure space anyway (unless at war). how would getting rid of rookie alts help here without breaking other game mechanics?
#1. Can't anchor anything in 0.8+ and as long as there's roids, there's gonna be mining. #2. Peanuts > free and I'm talking about rookie ships, I could care less who flies them.
Anchorable cans, other than using them as a coupling arrays are useless. Heck, I can fill up a giant secure with one cycle from two lasers, so even as a coupling array, they are useless. Not to mention, all this does is promote can spam. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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