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Al Thorr
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Posted - 2004.03.23 01:58:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Al Thorr on 23/03/2004 02:18:24
Ok well with all the comments from both sides ( I think they should be removed imho) why not simply and easily charge the peeps who want to use the highways a Toll?
Make it really hefty and link it to the mass of the ship plus cargo..(After all mass is in the game so lets tax it :)
So a fully loaded Indy / Battleship to move between gates via the highway will pay more than a shuttle
So those who wish to use them can and those that dont want to pay up will find another route.( assuming you make more routes available
Just my 2 penneth / cents
Regards Al Thorr
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I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.03.23 02:13:00 -
[32]
People will adjust, remove them, the galaxy has become too small, I bop around buying things and suddenly check the map, wtf I'm on the opposite side than I started from in 10 jumps.
I'm not going to the beach to sit in an inflatable pool.
Convert Stations
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Robotek Hybrid
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Posted - 2004.03.23 04:59:00 -
[33]
 Quote:
The again, they could do the same if they were linked to regions within the same empire, rather then to each Empire.
that would create backwater systems in the empires themselves.
I'm support removal of highwaygates, btw 
yay an isd on the side os smart read my philosophy to understand more on why burning ur local highway is good.
1.When will the superhighways that Link the region's main systems together be taken out so that the market works better?
point A:The richer individuals wouldn't be able to advertise and sell in every main region maybe 2 or 3 thus allowing more people to sell items at standard prices without so much undercutting of the price.
2.Will the empires ever divide their borders so that there are 0.0 systems between them or make PvP in the .1 and .2 systems so that there is risk of leaving that region or empire keeping more sellers away from selling in so many regions.
point A: player a wantes to sell ships in region b as well as in this region ( region a ), but he heard there was a player pirate around those regions and he isn't sure if its worth going to another regioin with his bps to sell there.( his choices are to stay in his current area or take the risk and go to the other region with his BP's)
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Mr nStuff
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Posted - 2004.03.23 05:47:00 -
[34]
killed highways is lame period..
would take all day to fly to each one of my R&D agents and back to base.
stupid idea. CCP probably doesn't even read these threads anymore.  |
Janus Rebelknight
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Posted - 2004.03.23 06:24:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Quote:
I don't think all systems beetwen empires should be 0.0, more like they should be in the 0.0 and 0.3 range (imho). What I'm all for is the removal of highways asap. 
In my highly uninformed opinion, having 0.4 - 0.1 borderzones would suffice. just low enough to escape Concord patrols' attention, but high enough to have gate sentries (the 60km variety).
People could use Yulai as a inter-regional focal point, with faction ships partolling the gates (to ensure that goods illegal in those regions would not be transported into that region, like slaves into Minmatar space).
Perhaps have quick 0.0 or 0.1 routes and then have longer 'safe' routes that are say 20-30 jumps long.
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Janus
"I'm not a stripper, I'm a miner." |
Mephiston
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Posted - 2004.03.23 06:38:00 -
[36]
Guys why not just make it so you have to pay to use them? I mean if you wanna travel safely you should have to pay for it. 
thats just my idea tho
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Muaddid
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Posted - 2004.03.23 07:03:00 -
[37]
Quote:
Is this good enough:
With the current influx of new players, the regions seem to be pointless to have. Amarr does not significantly differ from Pator, or New Caldari, and so on. New players expecting to immerse themselves in the universe have no reason to. Everything is the same.
Regional economies have been destroyed. If you do not mine or sell within 5-10 jumps from the highway systems, you will not sell at all. With the removal of the highway gates, this will partly be fixed as people will now have several centralised systems (one per region) instead of one (Yulai).
Of course, with the removal of the gates should come equally powerful trading opportunities. It might be worth it again, to haul a tradegood (one that is in high demand in one Empire/region and in abundant supply in another) 30 jumps and reap the benefits. Kind of like the Crash routes in late beta. The risk would have to be worth it.
Well said :)
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
voogru
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Posted - 2004.03.23 07:06:00 -
[38]
I'm all for removal of highway gates.
On one condition, they un-nerf abs/mwd's a tiny bit, so it doesnt take 5 minutes to get to a gate in a indy.
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Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes Guardian Enforcer, wrecking for 827.3 damage. |
Tatsue Nuko
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Posted - 2004.03.23 07:07:00 -
[39]
I advocate the removal of highways for a very simple reason: space is supposed to be big. And with first empiure highways and then immensea highways, EVE is shrinking in a way that makes it feel more lika a microcosmos than a huge star cluster.
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Lao Tzu
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Posted - 2004.03.23 07:13:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Guys why not just make it so you have to pay to use them? I mean if you wanna travel safely you should have to pay for it.
That I think, is what will be done.
When the highway gates were added, the story mentioned that the gate would be free for a trial period only, and helmar mentioned tolling, by ship class and maybe status, to contoll high sec. stip mining.
So maybe, just maybe it'll finaly happen (soon).
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Elfangor
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Posted - 2004.03.23 07:33:00 -
[41]
Just my two cents on this
Empire is fine the way it is. In fact highways probably key to eve future development because they provide manageable travel times to the most important areas of eveąlow sec space. It is there that people risk the destruction of their shipsą there where ammo is used and true player to player interaction is achieved. These people, that call for the highways to be cute fail to see this, or simply donĘt care and are looking to make their own little piece of eve totally safe.
If they really wanted true local markets and what ever else they claim will be created by destroying the highways then they would be calling for more 0.0 space where true player built empires could form too far from empire to make supply runs worth the trip. Here the laws of supply and demand take full effect as player empire worked to build auto mated defenses and defense/attack fleets, they would be force to hire miners and find resources giving pro explores a much needed boost. heck maybe even set up some kind of R&D system so some these empire could get one of a kind mod that everyone wants, things like this could make long haulers useful as they could bring in stuff from empire and take back things from 0.0 this would also make mercs a viable profession as guards and roaming attack forces. And pirates would be pirates again.
I could go on but I wont because IĘm sleepy
Any way that is my 2 centsą or maybe thatĘs a nickelą
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Galfrey
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Posted - 2004.03.23 09:21:00 -
[42]
If I recall correctly, paying a toll for use of the highway was always planned but was never implemented for one reason or another.
A charge based on ship size/mass and cargo would be logical and I think that is the way we should go.
Just try to avoid setting things up so that we end up with open season on unprotected players in bottleneck systems in Empire space.
That belongs in 0.0
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McWatt
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Posted - 2004.03.23 09:25:00 -
[43]
Quote:
I'm support removal of highwaygates, btw
a polaris guy with a sensible oppinion?
nothing more to say on this topic!
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Adriana
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Posted - 2004.03.23 09:32:00 -
[44]
Why would it be in the interest of anyone civilized to nerf these gates? The people who want them removed are the pirates for the most parts. These same pirates want 0.0 systems in between different spaces as well...didn't see that comming did you?
Let's look at this from a logical standpoint. Travel here and now. Right now the major capitols of the world are some of the easiest and cheapest travel routes around. A flight from washington to London or Paris is dirt cheap. Why? Because it promotes business. Business makes the economies grow, makes more money for everyone and therefore more money for the governments in the way of taxes.
It also stabilizes prices somewhat making things cheaper for the consumer...usually.
Add to this the convienience factor, and the speed with which travel happens and it also promotes tourism. Tourism = money.
On the idea of buffer systems. There is no logical reason why anyone who abides by the law would want these. They stifle trade. If certain items are prevented from being easily moved from one area to another the prices will go up...sure, but so will the prices of the things made from these items. This hurts the consumer. This is bad. The consumer must be able to afford to buy more and more goods or business loses said customers and collapses. When this happens people lose jobs and start to riot and burn government buildings. In some countries they start killing their leaders.
Learn one fact now. Leaders are all about self preservation.
Also, anyone ever travel from one counrty to another? Unless you jumped the border, you went through a waypoint. What did you find? decreased security? Not hardly. You found twice the security. You had people on BOTH sides of the border. So if you want to implement buffer systems, I would disagre with the notion, but if you are dead set on it make them 2.0 security. Make sure the guards are true to form too. They would not only be there, they would be highly alert to any problem situations, and most likely have itchy trigger fingers. These guys should blow you away if you even THINK about ganking an indi.
Oh wait, this is Eve, not real life. Eve is however, a true to life game in the sense that it is designed to be believeable within it's context. That context is one of humanity. These people are all human stock. Some good, some bad, but all human. Humans seek to make things better (easier) through the use of technology. Why would humans deliberatly take a step back and make things harder and more lawless when they have the technology to do otherwise? If that were to happen, there would be some serious questions about the motives of the leaders, and the capitals would burn from the fires the angry citizens would set.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte |
Pychian Vanervi
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Posted - 2004.03.23 09:33:00 -
[45]
Pure and simple the only reason the highways want to be kept is because many player don't like traveling. Well I say traveling I mean traveling in empire space.
You get very few complaints about having to travel 20-25 jumps in 0.0 to go mine high end ore or hunt top line rats and there is never a moan about coming out of 0.0 with your goods.
If you want to have a good ecconomy and get highly diverse pricing structure then you need to have gaps between regions large enough to make it impact on the buy and sell prices.
Now I for one don't mind travelling 15 jumps to deliver a shipment of minerals as it gives me time to manage our corperation. There are many more who would be happy to set up a business hauling goods for other players or corps but because there is no real long hauls in empire because of the highways it prevents this being a viable job.
I have heard player mention this not being a flight sim so why should I have to travel X jumps, is it just me or are we in almost constant flight?
I am just part of the school that enjoy the fact that space should be huge and not all systems easily accesable without some serious flight time. I guess many are not and want it all within a couple of mouse clicks from anywhere.
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It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
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Pychian Vanervi
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Posted - 2004.03.23 09:42:00 -
[46]
Quote:
Let's look at this from a logical standpoint. Travel here and now. Right now the major capitols of the world are some of the easiest and cheapest travel routes around. A flight from washington to London or Paris is dirt cheap. Why? Because it promotes business. Business makes the economies grow, makes more money for everyone and therefore more money for the governments in the way of taxes.
It also stabilizes prices somewhat making things cheaper for the consumer...usually.
The cost of a trip capital to capital is cheap yes, but is the distance any less?
What about if it wasn't just you traveling from one capital to another, but you had 20,000 tonnes of rock to take would the trip be so cheap then?
It may not be cheap for you as you don't have the best transport for the job and don't have the time to take it.
So you would look to someone to take it for you.
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It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
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Mimo
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Posted - 2004.03.23 09:52:00 -
[47]
If ya remove highways, please ensure, a minmatar is able to reach a minmatar research agent IN MINMATAR SPACE!!!
All Minmatar agents are in Caldari or Gallente space, and would take days to reach without highways.
This will need a heavy review aswell, shuffling everything arround.
Chaos will spread. Peeps will get worthless bases. If yqa unnerf travelling time again, then yes. Else leave it alone. Yet the most annoying thing is travelling in Eve....especially when minmatars top agents are not in minmatar space.
And it's getting annoying, that every week it's getting discussed about a major change of the game.
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Ichabod Dirange
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Posted - 2004.03.23 10:17:00 -
[48]
Quote:
A flight from washington to London or Paris is dirt cheap. Why? Because it promotes business.
Using Baghdad in that example instead of Paris would paint a more fitting picture and no it isn't dirt cheap.
London to Paris is more like Luminaire to Alentene.
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Mimo
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Posted - 2004.03.23 10:37:00 -
[49]
In my oppinion, if you want to get rid of overcroweded core systems and centralism of the market, tax the highways for indis and Battleships.
I know reallife comparisons are stupid, but there's taxes for using highways in france, italy, spain, switzerland, hungary, austria, .....
No one is forcing anyone to use highways, but if you want to travel fast, pay for it.
But removing highways in total isn't a good move. I agree to do something against centralism, and by installing a senseable tax you still allow fast travelling, but the ones who want to use it have to pay.
Better then making such a drastic and overreatected (in my eyes) change by removing highways totally.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.03.23 11:09:00 -
[50]
It was drastic and an overreaction when they were introduced.
Space was vast back then and I remember talking to this amarr guy, doing business over the then somewhat exotic trade channel, yes it was a long time ago, as if he was from a whole other universe. Actually seeing an amarr in gallente space back then was an event all in its own. Not to mention the 20 jumps you made to meet up with that business associate to exchange your wares.
Nowadays I don't even bother looking what race people are or what ship they fly.
I'm all for more crossings between the empires just as long as it's not core to core in 2 seconds.
Convert Stations
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Leland Kincaid
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Posted - 2004.03.23 11:39:00 -
[51]
WHy dont we just split the difference. Shortn the highwaysa bit to provide a buffer zone between the empires.
After all empires want trade so tehy are for the highways but they would want a buffer zone to prevent a quick attack.
Also through some stations in the middle of 0.0 space that are far away that will pay hansomly for food, medice weapons etc.
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Fuse
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Posted - 2004.03.23 11:47:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Fuse on 23/03/2004 12:04:56
This effort is mostly a spearhead of people that like to mark stuff up and people who like to gank indies. People log in they want PAY to PLAY a GAME not DRIVE around for HOURS. Driving around to get places is the #1 complaint I see from people everywhere in game. Group activity is hindered by the fact that if you log on after school or work you do not have time to play with your team mates. If you remove the highways you MUST put in Titans with jump drives. Earth and Beyond Boring put in the wormhole skill to put in a taxi driver character (Jenquai Explorer) just to address this problem. Get a life let people have fun.
0.o It's not you... no wait it is you. |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.03.23 11:50:00 -
[53]
If instant gratification is your definition of fun there's around the clock lotterys running every minute or so.
Still, for the tenth time or so, whoever said people need to travel the whole galaxy just because it's there? 
Convert Stations
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2004.03.23 11:54:00 -
[54]
Super highways were introduced for a reason, I played back in the days before them and thus remembers the time it took to get anywhere.
The benefits of having them far outweighs the drawbacks out of a game technical view.
The market is often used as an excuse to have them removed, there is a tantrum going that reds "if only the superhighways were removed then the market would blossom"
Wrong!
A market ecconomy is benefited by the free flow of goods, in order to raise prices you must reduce the number of producers, not make transporting difficult.
EvE atm has more than enough players to lower the prices in the respective superhighway regions to make the removal of them pointless.
There will be some minor fluctuations but they will not be high enough to make trading worth it. It may boost manufacturing slightly in some regions but considering the shortage of factory and lab slots in the central region this will only benefit the richest players.
As for the roleplay reason that its strange that there is a mere 2 jump distance between ammar prime and pator.
So?
Its noty like ither side would be able to launch an attack along this route.
Yulai inbetween is not neutral, its a soverign empire guarded not only by gallente but also by concord, if ither ammar or minmatar would launch a fleet down this route two things would happen.
1: gallente would consider themselves invaded and ask assistance of the oposing side making the attacker not only face the intended foe but also gallente, as concord is suposed to protect the peace it would too side with gallente and tho they may not fight they will slow the attacking fleet down considerably by getting in the way.
2: the gate between Yulai and the target system (pator naturally, minmatar would never be stupid enough to launch an attack like this) would be shut down and the enimy fleet would be forced to go back to ammar and the minmatar republic would be forewarned and thus can bolster its defenses on their borders to ammar and ammatar.
In short, they wont be used for war.
So what remains, mainly its the old noone goes into 0.4 and below argument, by removing the superhighways and setting up long and booring 0.4 and below border zones it will make for more concentrated target zones for pirates to hunt in.
The problem with this is that I cant see why pirating should be simple.
Pirating should be the most difficult occupation in the game, this naturally as each success for the pirate meens you have to spoil the fun of a non pirate, it may be exiting to have a run in with a pirate and it may be somthing positive if you get out OK, but its never fun to loose ships to the current pirate mecanics.
This added to the fact its close to impossible to hunt pirates effectively meens pirating is already too easy.
There are plenty of pirate possibilities in the lower sec systems as is, the game is designed (possibly even on urpouse) with chokepoints for pirates to use, they are plentiful and with the new mechanics the devs speak of in the CSM I dont see why the super highways should be removed and I doubt they will be.
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Decilius
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Posted - 2004.03.23 12:58:00 -
[55]
Quote:
Guys why not just make it so you have to pay to use them? I mean if you wanna travel safely you should have to pay for it.
thats just my idea tho
Sounds reasonable as long as you dont make it too expensive, I think another post mentioned a similar idea basing it on ship size and mass, this would also be good as n00b's in frigates would then pay less than an experienced player in a battleship / indy 
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2004.03.23 13:16:00 -
[56]
I remember before the highway gates - EVE was much more interesting then. Back in May/June I had to travel across the galaxy to a new region - it might have been 40 or 50 jumps - and it really did feel like I was going somewhere different, new look stations, new look jump gates, people were flying different ships, the market had weird and unusual items not found in any of my home regions. All that is gone now and empire space is a big homogenous area because you can get a taste of it all within a few hops. Simultaneously it trashed commodity trading by making region spamming possible (before it took longer to shift goods than it took for them to respawn) and severely hampered normal module/mineral trading by shrinking the market hugely.
Oh, and it also made the trips much safer - so safe that it became a bit dull too. I *do* think some people quit due to being ganked, but being ganked is different from being shot down - ganked means you find yourself in a 100% lethal situation with 0 or almost 0 warning. The current situation doesn't take into account that there is a difference and as a result not only can you not get ganked, you also aren't exposed to any risk, uncertainty or danger (assuming you're not at war).
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Toulak
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Posted - 2004.03.23 13:16:00 -
[57]
Kill the highways, split the empires, and create neutral zones inbetween.
Its totally ridiculous the way it is atm for too many god damn reasons.
But CCP listens to the casual players who want an easy life, making millions by just travelling 4 jumps a day.
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Pychian Vanervi
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Posted - 2004.03.23 13:22:00 -
[58]
To say the highways have no effect on the market or taking them out will send it into melt down is arse. What you actually are saying is that the billions of isk that was being made by easily trading beween empires will stop.
As it stands now there is no difference between trading minerals or mods in one capital as there is in another.
If the highways went then for starters war would effect trade more. For example Mega and zyd coming out of a 0.0 region local to Caldari that is in the throws of war would increase in value as it would be harder to come by as less will come out of the region. Thus you would have to travel a greater distance to pick some up at a good price. Players willing to go and buy low in a capital close to a safer 0.0 region could make a profit for their effort.
As it is now the above case never happens because access to all systems is easy so the price of mega and zyd is always roughly the same price.
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It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
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Bella Verde
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Posted - 2004.03.23 15:59:00 -
[59]
I Totally agree with all who want the highways removed. The empires and regions should be further apart, make the galaxy bigger again. Make it more fun, please. If you want to make lots of money shuttling goods from New Caldari to Pator, then you'll have to travel through forge region to the neutral zones, and get into Minmatar space. You'll have to deal with it. I want the universe bigger again, it would make holding of territory, and regional markets stronger.
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Leland Kincaid
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:07:00 -
[60]
Once again why is this issue polarized. It seems either remove them completly or keep them.
As I have stated just shorten them a bit.
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