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Dr Fighter	Posted - 2008.01.25 04:38:00 - [1] ECM drones the new multispec for your drone bay? ive seen a huge increase in the use of ECM drones in mid to small pvp gangs, and it sucks. ive NEVER EVER seen any damp drones being used, just ecm drones and in a way you cant blame anyone fitting them, they work VERY well. nw its not the strength, more the number of chances. Its making pvp predictable and dull, and dont say 'fit eccm' because unless you hav 3 or more 95% boosters you wont notice any difference. please ccp, take a look
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.01.25 05:27:00 - [2] I'd consider, y'know, blowing up the ECM drones. ECCM works fine for me too. I think it's more an issue of other EW drones not being effective enough than ECM drones being too powerful. And it would seem to me that PvP where everyone just used dps drones would be more "predictable and dull."
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2008.01.25 06:11:00 - [3] Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad I'd consider, y'know, blowing up the ECM drones. ECCM works fine for me too. I think it's more an issue of other EW drones not being effective enough than ECM drones being too powerful. And it would seem to me that PvP where everyone just used dps drones would be more "predictable and dull." QFT. Also, it'd be nice if the ECM drones were affected by your spec skills.... woot! In the end, though, I find smartbombs to be more than sufficient for dealing with ECM drones. -Liang -- If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt. Consider yourself warned. ^_^
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2008.01.25 06:16:00 - [4] yeah true, ecm drones work, they cant be smart bombed in empire or near gates, cant be shot while jammed etc etc it still stands they jam carriers and such far to well, they are the most used EW drone by about 99% (meaning theres a total and obvious ballence issue here) and they ... well they suck
Barasu Minmatar Earned In Blood	Posted - 2008.01.25 06:33:00 - [5] Sensor damp drones don't make sense in small pvp gangs as alot of that fighting is upclose and drone range effects those. ECM drones are just easier and work better. Things don't have much hit points though.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.01.25 06:40:00 - [6] I saw some damp drones outside of 1V-LI2 next to a wreck maybe thats why they aren't used that much. Ewar drones in general are all pretty suck except ecm drones
Avery Fatwallet	Posted - 2008.01.25 06:43:00 - [7] cant damp drones be useful if you already have some ecm dromes in the mix? you know... increasing the locktime after a successful jam and stuff...
DarkFollower Amarr Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2008.01.25 06:48:00 - [8] did they buff them in any way or i just had some bad luck?got almost perma jammed in a fight by 5 lights, i know last time i was using them ,lights were were preaty based on luck Cap rechargers on PvP ships Suxxor monkey ballzorz!!
Marcus TheMartin Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.01.25 06:54:00 - [9] Originally by: DarkFollower did they buff them in any way or i just had some bad luck?got almost perma jammed in a fight by 5 lights, i know last time i was using them ,lights were were preaty based on luck Black cat in your house?,Broken mirrors?, Stepped on any *****s?
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2008.01.25 06:55:00 - [10] Originally by: DarkFollower did they buff them in any way or i just had some bad luck?got almost perma jammed in a fight by 5 lights, i know last time i was using them ,lights were were preaty based on luck This is why PVP'ing in frigs and marauders sucks. ;-) -Liang -- If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt. Consider yourself warned. ^_^

Dr Fighter	Posted - 2008.01.25 07:04:00 - [11] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: DarkFollower did they buff them in any way or i just had some bad luck?got almost perma jammed in a fight by 5 lights, i know last time i was using them ,lights were were preaty based on luck This is why PVP'ing in frigs and marauders sucks. ;-) -Liang i got pemer jammed in a bs and a command ship recently my light ecm drones. but thats not a basis for this thread, its a general overview. ive been jamed occasionally, and jammed with uber eccm, everyones doing it and if you even slightly down on numbers ecm drones make up for it x5 per player extra
mama guru Gallente Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.25 08:10:00 - [12] Stay away from my Vespa EC-600 please *signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link) - Jacques([email protected]) EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.25 08:12:00 - [13] Edited by: Gamesguy on 25/01/2008 08:13:10 EC-600s is by far the best option for ships with 50 or 75 m3 of drone space(of which there are many). IIRC the math works out to something like 25% chance to jam a BS every 20 seconds with 5 EC-600s.
mama guru Gallente Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.25 08:19:00 - [14] Edited by: mama guru on 25/01/2008 08:18:59 Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 25/01/2008 08:13:10 EC-600s is by far the best option for ships with 50 or 75 m3 of drone space(of which there are many). IIRC the math works out to something like 25% chance to jam a BS every 20 seconds with 5 EC-600s. Yeah, i think the ECM drones still use the old "multispec" maths(and rightfully so) or whatever you wanna call it. As in back in early 2006 etc... *signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link) - Jacques([email protected]) EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.25 08:32:00 - [15] Originally by: mama guru Edited by: mama guru on 25/01/2008 08:18:59 Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 25/01/2008 08:13:10 EC-600s is by far the best option for ships with 50 or 75 m3 of drone space(of which there are many). IIRC the math works out to something like 25% chance to jam a BS every 20 seconds with 5 EC-600s. Yeah, i think the ECM drones still use the old "multispec" maths(and rightfully so) or whatever you wanna call it. As in back in early 2006 etc... Assuming a nice and round 20 sensor str, the math is 1-(1-(1.5/20))^5=32.3% chance to jam every 20 seconds. Thats basically better than anything else you could fit in 50 m3 of drone space.
Onyx Asablot Aliastra	Posted - 2008.01.25 10:26:00 - [16] ECM drones are def effective, but don't forget dropping 5xhammerhead II will reduce a ships DPS quite badly too.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.25 10:56:00 - [17] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/01/2008 10:58:33 Originally by: Dr Fighter ECM drones the new multispec for your drone bay? ive seen a huge increase in the use of ECM drones in mid to small pvp gangs, and it sucks. ive NEVER EVER seen any damp drones being used, just ecm drones and in a way you cant blame anyone fitting them, they work VERY well. Well, wouldn't it be boring as hell if everyone used the damage drones? Anyway, other EWAR drones suck. Web drones can be effective sometimes, but they are a bit weak. Damp drones are complete garbage for some reason... At any rate, EWAR drones vs damage drones are two very valid choices. Damage drones, after all, have a few benefits over guns, like the fact you can jam the ship and drones keep on going. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:11:00 - [18] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: DarkFollower did they buff them in any way or i just had some bad luck?got almost perma jammed in a fight by 5 lights, i know last time i was using them ,lights were were preaty based on luck This is why PVP'ing in frigs and marauders sucks. ;-) -Liang No it also sucks to be in a battleship using an ECCM and getting jammed by 5-10 light ecm drones. They are not balanced with the other drones and they will get nerfed at some point because everyone in empire wars and low sec is basically fitting them if they dont trust their guns enough to do the work for them.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:18:00 - [19] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong No it also sucks to be in a battleship using an ECCM and getting jammed by 5-10 light ecm drones. They are not balanced with the other drones and they will get nerfed at some point because everyone in empire wars and low sec is basically fitting them if they dont trust their guns enough to do the work for them. LOL. Anyway, I see a lot of people using damage drones. I occasionally see web drones for very specific purposes. I see ECM drones. It makes me think that other ewar drones (dampener ones, for instance) are broken and in need of love. As for ECM drones vs damage drones; depending on what ewar you have available in gang, both can be useful. Also, BS pilots who fit smartbombs on their ships can quite easily dispose of them (being they're much much more fragile then damage drones), and if you were relying on them you're rather screwed. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
sh4rp ov3rvolt Hikage Corporation Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:27:00 - [20] Just fit a smartbomb and stop the whine...

Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:28:00 - [21] Painter drones arent terrible, but damp/TD/neut drones are fairly worthless.
Miranda Ceres	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:31:00 - [22] The reason that ECM drones are effective isn't because they are overpowered, it's because people use a lot of them. You're effectively rolling the dice a lot of times hoping to get Yahtzee! More often than not, you don't get Yahtzee and you die - all those times you never hear about. The one time someone gets a Yahtzee! and a Thorax jams and kills a much more expensive ship... someone screams loudly about how overpowered they are and how they need to be nerfed.
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.25 12:17:00 - [23] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Amira Shadowsong No it also sucks to be in a battleship using an ECCM and getting jammed by 5-10 light ecm drones. They are not balanced with the other drones and they will get nerfed at some point because everyone in empire wars and low sec is basically fitting them if they dont trust their guns enough to do the work for them. LOL. Anyway, I see a lot of people using damage drones. I occasionally see web drones for very specific purposes. I see ECM drones. It makes me think that other ewar drones (dampener ones, for instance) are broken and in need of love. As for ECM drones vs damage drones; depending on what ewar you have available in gang, both can be useful. Also, BS pilots who fit smartbombs on their ships can quite easily dispose of them (being they're much much more fragile then damage drones), and if you were relying on them you're rather screwed. No, no, no. No one in their right mind messes with smartbombs in empire wars. There are always people around you, containers, cloaked alts. No way. You know why ecm drones are overpowered? Because even light drones can jam a battleship and it will take a battleship quite some time to relock his enemies. The loss of drones dps by fitting 5x light ecm drones for example is way too little. There should be a restriction like: Light ecm can only jam frig size, Medium only cruiser/bc size and Large battleships and below. This would make people think and BALANCE their fitting (just like the defensive side considers to fit a SB or not) like this...
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.25 12:26:00 - [24] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong No, no, no. No one in their right mind messes with smartbombs in empire wars. There are always people around you, containers, cloaked alts. No way. Wouldn't know, can't even go to high-sec. Originally by: Amira Shadowsong You know why ecm drones are overpowered? Because even light drones can jam a battleship and it will take a battleship quite some time to relock his enemies. The loss of drones dps by fitting 5x light ecm drones for example is way too little. Light damage drones are awesomely useful for killing small things. Yes, they're less useful versus BS. However, if loss of DPS is such an issue due to being jammed and losing lock, you can use drone-based BS and let drones eat away. You can use EWAR of you own, anyway. If they're using ECM drones, well, after being jammed by a falcon/rook/whatever, they deliver 0 DPS. I think your gang composition/tactics are problematic, imo. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.01.25 12:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong No it also sucks to be in a battleship using an ECCM and getting jammed by 5-10 light ecm drones. They are not balanced with the other drones and they will get nerfed at some point because everyone in empire wars and low sec is basically fitting them if they dont trust their guns enough to do the work for them. dude, that was bad luck. ECM drones are effective, but a smartbomb, or even FOF light missiles work very well on them. and considering that many ships have a spare launcher slot, you can slap an assault launcher there with FoF lights. you can also use your own drones to kill them. anyways, by using ECM drones, I'm sacrificing firepower. Oh and I don't trust my guns? tell that when I'm engaging my gank deimos with zero tank vs another ship. I need a way to know that, at least, I have a semblance of chance of surviving that encounter. ECM drones are fine. boost players. --- planetary interaction idea!
Bronson Hughes Knights of the Wild	Posted - 2008.01.25 14:21:00 - [26] Originally by: Grimpak anyways, by using ECM drones, I'm sacrificing firepower. Oh and I don't trust my guns? tell that when I'm engaging my gank deimos with zero tank vs another ship. I need a way to know that, at least, I have a semblance of chance of surviving that encounter. QFT. A lot of people use ECM drones as their main form of tanking on gank ships. It doesn't always work, but it's better than nothing ta all. Grimpak: do you use medium ECM drones or a flight of light ECMs and a flight of light DPS drones? -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.01.25 14:32:00 - [27] Let's face it - ECM Drones NEED those chances to lock becuase their jam strength is PITIFUL. 5 Heavy ECM drones are roughly as effective as 1 racial loaded onto an ECM ship, and I'll tell ya that one racial doesn't yield a very effective jam rate. If someone is willing to give up lots of drone space to keep you locked down (thus nerfing their own DPS in the process) then it seems to be a legitimate tactic. ECM drones are protected by dreams and faries if they fail to jam (and let's face it - it takes LOTS of ECM drones to lock you down as effectively as even the lowly blackbird). Smartbombs are one incredible solution, though they of course aren't the "it always works" solution. Another possibility as actually carrying around some FoF missiles. Given how weak ECM drones are in general, FoF's should tear them apart with ease. Failing that, you probably have drones of your own that you can use. And of course, nothing stops you from using ECM drones or ECM boats of your own.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.01.25 15:05:00 - [28] Originally by: Bronson Hughes Grimpak: do you use medium ECM drones or a flight of light ECMs and a flight of light DPS drones? med ecm drones all the way, and even so it doesn't stop me of making me scared sometimes. --- planetary interaction idea!
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:44:00 - [29] LOL Just LOL How 1-dimensional is your gang? Do you not fly anti-support ships? Does you gang include drones? Did you know your drones can be use against other drones? Have you tried a Destroyer? You know what all its small guns are great at? Popping small fast targets like ECM drones! People complain about AF not having a role - set them up as snipers for more durable destroyers... A gang isn't just gank and ewar - you NEED anti-support. Think outside the box and L2P. Just...LOL __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Delictum 23216	Posted - 2008.01.25 17:20:00 - [30] The only reason why people aren't using Tracking and Damping drones is because Stacking makes tracking/damping drones useless. ECM drones don't have that problem, so using them en masse is not a problem. Kind of like playing shooty Orks in 40k. You only hit if you roll 6s (on a 6-sided dice), but that doesn't matter because you have lots and lots of dice to roll. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.



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