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Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.01.25 09:19:00 - [31] Originally by: Gillian Delilah Me too. I didn't use to, until I started playing the market myself, and found the "undercut by 0.1 isk" muppets hard at work. As a consequence I try to buy from anyone with a rounded price, and not buy from anyone with an unrounded price. I personally try to manage my buy and sell prices in such a way as to ruin their profit margins (as someone mentioned above). Actually, trying to buy above the lowest price in your station still buys you as much of the lowest as possible. You just overpay him.
Demetropulis	Posted - 2008.01.25 09:20:00 - [32] Wow look at all the whiners in this thread. In one corner we have the guys that are getting their *** kicked in market PvP. In the other corner we have the flower children that want to support "fair" sellers by only buying from sell orders with rounded numbers. 0.01 undercutting happens all the time in the real world in the commodities market. Every item in Eve except the high end items that end up on contract are commodities. Tritanium mined in Domain is not better or worse than the tritanium mined in Lonetrek. So don't be surprised if you are having trouble playing the economic part of this game if your only point of reference is the mom and pop store on the corner.
Augeas	Posted - 2008.01.25 09:27:00 - [33] Quote: I go out of my way NOT to buy from people who are undercutting other orders by 0.01. If you can't be asked to lower your price enough to actually mean something, I can't be asked to buy your product. I'll spend the 0.01 to support the guy who's not being a tightwad. oh man i so love idiots like this.
facepalm johnson a sackful of sacrificial sacrifices	Posted - 2008.01.25 09:34:00 - [34] Originally by: Chain Daisy Ever see an auctioneer taking bids from an audience? "And I'm bid... ten euros... do I hear ten euros and one cent? Ten euros and two cents?" You don't hear that, and you don't hear that 'cause it's a stupid waste of everyone's time. Good poast! Cause EVE is just like RL, right?
Arcticblue2 Gallente Nordic Freelancers inc	Posted - 2008.01.25 09:37:00 - [35] That only applies if someone buys stuff blindly on the market does it not ? Like if someone check where the items are and buy the items closest to your positions (like same station) and the items is .01 isk cheaper 10 jumps away it does not get bought does it ? I belive that it is a more problem that people thinks minerals you sit and mine yourself is free... Now I got good productionskills and my bpo's are well researched, yet I find people put items on the market for mineralcost or less... (someone even sell items for less the mineralcost). ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
CaperPuts Minmatar Life. Universe. Everything.	Posted - 2008.01.25 09:38:00 - [36] Jita is fun with undercutting things. I have never sold any faction ammo there. Within about 30 seconds someone will undercut my ammo by .01 ISK. I got frustrated and I undercut by about 600 ISK that day and they undercut by .01 of that. That was a while ago though. I still do it a lot, but not that much. I forgot what my point was.
Charlie Seriya Gallente Eve Defence Force Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.25 09:52:00 - [37] Poorly phrased, slightly whingy post and therefore doomed to die at the bottom of a flameheap. HOWEVER, I agree that simply updating one's order every few minutes to be .01 ISK better is a really crappy way of deciding the best trader. Unfortunately an alternative would be very hard to implement, and if one is not careful, very frustrating for the consumer too. In real life the most trade goes not to the guy who's just a penny cheaper, but visibility, accessability, advertising, branding etc etc are all major factors. I've given some thought to ways of trying to implement some of these factors, but as I say it's really hard. See what alternatives you can come up with.
Chain Daisy	Posted - 2008.01.25 09:58:00 - [38] Originally by: facepalm johnson Good poast! Cause EVE is just like RL, right? Nope. EVE is completely made up, as I'm sure you've noticed, and has a very large number of things which work contrary to RL. However, just because the game is set in a fictional world doesn't mean that the same rules don't necessarily apply. You expect maths to work the same in EVE, don't you? Trading is about maths, logic, and generally outthinking your opponents. All of these things carry right over from the real world without changing in the slightest. It doesn't matter whether you're selling RL bread or an EVE dreadnought, a market is a market is a market. I have no objection to cutthroat competition or getting one over on people. I'm not coming at this from any angle of being nice to people, I just think that if you want to undercut, a sensible margin is in order, in the interests of not pratting about. (GD is my alt (or vice versa), as I'm sure the observant among you will have noticed. Didn't mean to use her to post the first time.) if you really have to argue about "EVE reality", why the heck don't capsuleers have a computer to handle all this market stuff for them anyway? As someone said, a macro to undercut opponents is an easy thing to write. However many thousands of years in the future and the elite star pilots don't have a macro that some kid could write? Gimme a break.
ZeroZero Merchant	Posted - 2008.01.25 09:58:00 - [39] Originally by: Artem Plovix I go out of my way NOT to buy from people who are undercutting other orders by 0.01. If you can't be asked to lower your price enough to actually mean something, I can't be asked to buy your product. I'll spend the 0.01 to support the guy who's not being a tightwad. Everyone should do this.
Chain Daisy	Posted - 2008.01.25 09:59:00 - [40] Originally by: facepalm johnson Good poast! Cause EVE is just like RL, right? Nope. (and congratulations for being the first person to try the "EVE isn't RL!111!!" gambit in this thread) EVE is completely made up, as I'm sure you've noticed, and has a very large number of things which work contrary to RL. However, just because the game is set in a fictional world doesn't mean that the same rules don't necessarily apply. You expect maths to work the same in EVE, don't you? Trading is about maths, logic, and generally outthinking your opponents. All of these things carry right over from the real world without changing in the slightest. It doesn't matter whether you're selling RL bread or an EVE dreadnought, a market is a market is a market. I have no objection to cutthroat competition or getting one over on people. I'm not coming at this from any angle of being nice to people, I just think that if you want to undercut, a sensible margin is in order, in the interests of not pratting about. (GD is my alt (or vice versa), as I'm sure the observant among you will have noticed. Didn't mean to use her to post the first time.) if you really have to argue about "EVE reality", why the heck don't capsuleers have a computer to handle all this market stuff for them anyway? As someone said, a macro to undercut opponents is an easy thing to write. However many thousands of years in the future and the elite star pilots don't have a macro that some kid could write? Gimme a break.
Luh Windan	Posted - 2008.01.25 10:22:00 - [41] Originally by: Vested Interest If your stuff isn't selling perhaps you should tend to the holes in your own strategy rather than pushing for huge global changes to the market. Now come on you have read these forums, you must know how it goes: Player can't make feature X/Y/Z work for them. Player posts on forum claiming that feature X/Y/Z sucks and that CPP should fix it immediately. It's a time honored tradition. Meanwhile the rest of us quietly figure out how it all works and run rings round them
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.01.25 10:24:00 - [42] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Alright. Currently there's a system where undercutting someone else by .01 ISK means that your goods will always sell before theirs unless they log on and undercut YOU by .01 ISK. What the hell's the point in this system? It should really be removed, and the sale should go to whichever order the buyer chooses. This way, petty undercuts (by .01 ISK) would have next to no effect. Currently, "Competition" involves logging in a lot to undercut someone by .01 ISK, and that's just stupid. Thoughts? Its more then that but i actually usually buy the more expensive one in cases like these. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Kaivos	Posted - 2008.01.25 10:40:00 - [43] well buhuuu.. just fill my orders by selling directly to the market and stop whining about undercuts..
Ka Jolo Ministry of Destruction	Posted - 2008.01.25 10:53:00 - [44] I don't think the OP is arguing that "People should not be allowed to undercut by .01 ISK." Rather, I believe he is arguing that "People should be allowed to purchase from any seller they want." This is based on the attitude shared by many that, "If you're going to try to make the sale based on a lower price, make the price difference meaningful. If not, I'll buy from the guy who did price his item meaningfully below that of the next cheapest item--because it only costs me .01 ISK to do so." There is a compelling reason EVE forces us to buy from the person with the lowest price in each location: to make it just that much harder for ISK sellers. In other MMORPGs, people selling currency send a message like, "Just place a sell order of one round of Lead S for 500,000,000 and I will buy it." Can't do that in EVE. My practice, when confronted with the hated .01 undercutters, is just to price my merchandise at the lowest I'll accept. At least I can't begrudge them for undercutting that. Later, if I see I've made a sale, I know the undercutters are gone and I can raise my prices if I want--a popular decision, I'm sure, with buyers. Your Money or Your Life! The journal of a space pirate
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:05:00 - [45] What's more annoying is those that sell stuff at less than material cost..... You'd be surprised how many folks sell stuff at near or below construction cost to the point that if they sold just the minerals they'd make more money and it'd take less time. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:06:00 - [46] Edited by: Kerfira on 25/01/2008 11:08:53 Originally by: Sul Condbax 0.01 ISK modifications ensure price stability. Anyone who undercuts by more (on a product that actually sells) is a fool who might as well give his ISK away to random strangers. I disagree on the 'fool' part.... There are times when drastically dropping prices is the logical choice. Say the production price of something is 8m ISK. It's selling at 11m ISK in Jita. A trader has a relative 'small' number of an item (say 10 with 100+ being sold a day). He can enter the competition of 0.01 ISK undercutting, or he can put up his items at 9.5m ISK. If he does the last, undercutting on that item basically stops until his items are sold (assuming he's only selling a 'small' amount). So, he still gets a nice profit, and doesn't have to spend maybe hours online undercutting others for a relatively small profit. ...plus the added benefit of knowing that a bunch of 'professional' traders will be gnashing their teeth and cursing him over and over Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:10:00 - [47] Originally by: Mecinia Lua What's more annoying is those that sell stuff at less than material cost..... You'd be surprised how many folks sell stuff at near or below construction cost to the point that if they sold just the minerals they'd make more money and it'd take less time. That is in NO way annoying, that is PROFITABLE! Hint, having perfect reprocess in Jita 4-4 ...... Profit! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Zorai Miraden	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:12:00 - [48] How's this system currently any different than real life. I've seen Kmart selling a DVD at $9.99 Walmart since they always must be cheaper were selling it at $9.98. If you can stand the crazy competition you can go to a much lower traffic region and sell at a higher price. Many empire regions are very low competion markets.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:16:00 - [49] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Mecinia Lua What's more annoying is those that sell stuff at less than material cost..... You'd be surprised how many folks sell stuff at near or below construction cost to the point that if they sold just the minerals they'd make more money and it'd take less time. That is in NO way annoying, that is PROFITABLE! Hint, having perfect reprocess in Jita 4-4 ...... Profit! I generally avoid Jita, but I do understand your line of thought :). Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Zorai Miraden	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:16:00 - [50] Edited by: Zorai Miraden on 25/01/2008 11:16:31 Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 25/01/2008 11:08:53 I disagree on the 'fool' part.... There are times when drastically dropping prices is the logical choice. Say the production price of something is 8m ISK. It's selling at 11m ISK in Jita. A trader has a relative 'small' number of an item (say 10 with 100+ being sold a day). He can enter the competition of 0.01 ISK undercutting, or he can put up his items at 9.5m ISK. If he does the last, undercutting on that item basically stops until his items are sold (assuming he's only selling a 'small' amount). So, he still gets a nice profit, and doesn't have to spend maybe hours online undercutting others for a relatively small profit. ...plus the added benefit of knowing that a bunch of 'professional' traders will be gnashing their teeth and cursing him over and over Instead of nashing your teeth over the guy who's undercutting you by half a million isk buy the item yourself and instantly turn around and sell it for .01 below the current guy.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:20:00 - [51] ITT: People who don't like market PvP and think making less money is the answer! But of course now you're just reading my sig...
Frances Ducoir Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:46:00 - [52] make sell orders modifyable only once every day or maybe once every 2 days... problem solved. snip Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch
w0rmy M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:50:00 - [53] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Do you ever see stores advertising $.03 off anything they sell? Hell no. Yes. Petrol prices over here. Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness. Originally by: Dianabolic I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:53:00 - [54] Edited by: Kerfira on 25/01/2008 11:52:58 Originally by: Zorai Miraden Originally by: Kerfira I disagree on the 'fool' part.... There are times when drastically dropping prices is the logical choice. Say the production price of something is 8m ISK. It's selling at 11m ISK in Jita. A trader has a relative 'small' number of an item (say 10 with 100+ being sold a day). He can enter the competition of 0.01 ISK undercutting, or he can put up his items at 9.5m ISK. If he does the last, undercutting on that item basically stops until his items are sold (assuming he's only selling a 'small' amount). So, he still gets a nice profit, and doesn't have to spend maybe hours online undercutting others for a relatively small profit. ...plus the added benefit of knowing that a bunch of 'professional' traders will be gnashing their teeth and cursing him over and over Instead of nashing your teeth over the guy who's undercutting you by half a million isk buy the item yourself and instantly turn around and sell it for .01 below the current guy. Traders could do that, but if it's a small amount (compared to daily sales), usually they don't but just wait until the low-prized items are sold (or they buy them and resell at the higher price).... ...and it was 1.5m ISK in my example, cutting profits by 50%. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
KhaniKirai	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:54:00 - [55] I placed minerals on market 2 days ago. I worked really hard for that! So yes i want to sell them as high as possible and undercut the cheapest bulk one with 0.01. I am an active player and even if he did change the price, no big deal for me. For the time he didnt change it, i get the highest price i want. But, I cant stay around my sell orders, i have to go back to my working/play ground far far away, where there is no market to sell the mins directly. Why do you complain about a market mechanisme, that does work? Any other system would let drop prices so dang fast, its not even funny.
Kaivos	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:58:00 - [56] Originally by: Frances Ducoir make sell orders modifyable only once every day or maybe once every 2 days... problem solved. Actually it doesnt solve anything. People will just start putting smaller amounts of the items in the market. Lets say one ship at the time and then you lose again. Then what is your next whine when that happens?
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.25 11:59:00 - [57] Originally by: Ka Jolo I don't think the OP is arguing that "People should not be allowed to undercut by .01 ISK." Rather, I believe he is arguing that "People should be allowed to purchase from any seller they want." This is based on the attitude shared by many that, "If you're going to try to make the sale based on a lower price, make the price difference meaningful. If not, I'll buy from the guy who did price his item meaningfully below that of the next cheapest item--because it only costs me .01 ISK to do so." People ARE allowed to purchase from any seller they want. What are you talking about? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.01.25 12:05:00 - [58] Originally by: Zorai Miraden How's this system currently any different than real life. I've seen Kmart selling a DVD at $9.99 Walmart since they always must be cheaper were selling it at $9.98. the difference being that people still have the ability to buy from Kmart. If the Kmart DVD were invisible / unobtainable until the same DVD from Walmart had been purchased however it would be more like what EVE is now. Trying to sell anything on the Jita market quickly is a nightmare unless you camp it all day long, constantly undercutting by 0.01 ISK, which is both frustrating and a massive waste of time. It's the kind of thing you'd have Macros doing.
Clurk Brodon Yog-Sothoth Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.01.25 12:07:00 - [59] 0.01 isk undercutting is fine. Just apply 0.1% broker fee when modifying an order (instead of 100 isk).
Aaron	Posted - 2008.01.25 12:12:00 - [60] Welcome to eve online. I think its quite a logical system where the lowest price in reigon gets the immidiate sale, however consider this, most of the time pilots are in a rush and dont wish to travel 12 jumps just to save a few isk so they will take the time to look and choose the nearest. Also, if u consider that the people placing these buy/sell orders simply cannot be watching a price constantly as they have RL to deal with and they are probably selling 100's of other items. So my advice to you is log in as often as u can making sure your sell/buy orders are the cheapest, this will give you a share of the market equal to how often u log on to reduce your prices. Recruitment Advertisement Brave, insane, isk hungry pilots needed in Stain.

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