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Enormous lagggggssss.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Jakus Cemendur Caldari The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.31 15:31:00 - [31] Originally by: Barthezz Lets ignore the whole lag issue thats been plaguing the server ever since... uh, well a really long time... Lets make witty remarks instead of actually telling the player base what we're doing to make the servers less laggy... Oh no, lets make a devblog about changing the way asteroids work because then the server doesnt have to check them DURING DOWNTIME on how to reseed them. That will really solve the lag issues plaguing the server, that'll make the grid-load times acceptable and that'll make the module lag <15s so we can actually play the game the way its intended to. This post has been about as useful as all other posts by CCP about what their doing to make lag less. Have you read the Infiniband thread, or the thread in the Tech Lab that's got a bit buried a few pages back by now, useful dev posts about the coming changes to the server in those threads.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.31 15:36:00 - [32] Originally by: Angri Bob Popsa +1 Did that ever come accross CCP's DEV's mind that logging system is inadequate? Let us this think about logs for a second. The only purpose of logs is to be able to trace back a set of events which lead to a particular situation. In that way the system of logs should be driven by a set of those situations which occur most often and get querried most often. What is the point of logging system which does not address very big majority of querries by direct users of the system who employ those logs ? Yes but for a client/server application the logs need to somehow span both ends of the link. That's not only tricky to do (perhaps by using a joint transaction ID) but is also subject to corruption and screw ups itself. It's a kind of modern day version of 'Quis Custodiet ipsos custodes?' (who guards the guards?). In this case it's 'Who logs the logs?' Even in a friendly database scenario (where the client can be assumed to be trustworth) it's tricky to implement and often the logs for an incident are hard to interpret. In this situation the client is not even trustworthy. The server is (I assume) written to not give a damn what the client thinks and only grudgingly accept commands from the client. It is not a relationship of equals and ultimately that has to be reflected in the EULA and the way CCP deals with us. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Hoegen Minmatar	Posted - 2008.01.31 16:07:00 - [33] i have been reimbursedfrom lagg a couple times. once in jita when i undocked and ctd'and once after a patch day where i couldnt log in proberly and was scanned down and popped as i was staring @ a black screen. ------- Naked Chick!
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.01.31 16:09:00 - [34] I've heard of people getting reimbursed for losses when they couldn't jump through a gate, yet other times people don't. Why the inconsistency??? I'd hate to lose my snake set because CCP's servers can't handle the load.
Taedrin Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.01.31 16:17:00 - [35] Originally by: Kruel I've heard of people getting reimbursed for losses when they couldn't jump through a gate, yet other times people don't. Why the inconsistency??? I'd hate to lose my snake set because CCP's servers can't handle the load. I'm not CCP, but it very well may be that those times people got reimbursed, the logs may have shown something. Say, something like a node going down, or perhaps there was a bug that they verified. And IIRC, reimbursements are left to the discretion of the GMs, so YMMV (depending upon how you act towards the GMs, and the mood that the GMs are in).
Rukee	Posted - 2008.01.31 16:20:00 - [36] Originally by: Victron Originally by: Psychic Sue However, lag is not a "server error" and not an reimbursment case, as stated in the policies. To all of you who say say server lag isnt grounds for reimbursement... say your flying an officer fitted ship persay worth lets say 20bil never have flown one but for sake of arguement. You jump into a system and get lag from the server when your screen loads your back in a station.. lets also say their was 5 min from the time you jumped in till the first shot was fired at you.. more than enough time to get out safly but because of lag you got killed, not a single thing you could do.. I dont give a flying f what the ula says in this instance the SERVERS caused the loss of a ship and SHOULD be reimbursed.. on the same note i have asked for reimbursement for a BS.. the response is not quoted but was along the lines of Sorry our logs dont show any hickups.. needless to say i was playing on a T3 connection at work on a super computer that cost was probably more than the servers eve runs on.. i knew i wasnt gonna get it but ccp needs to realize that their servers are not good at all and need upgraded losing ships for server lag is making the game less and less appealing QFT I've lost more than a couple of ships to this. Sat on a gate, a fleet jumps in, I get 0 fps for 60 seconds+ next thing I know I'm back in the station. I couldn't interact in ANY way during this period. Yet, it's not grounds for reimbursement. Rubbish.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.31 16:25:00 - [37] Originally by: Barthezz Lets ignore the whole lag issue thats been plaguing the server ever since... uh, well a really long time... LAG? On the internets! THIS IS THE BIGGEST OUTRAGE EVER!!! Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Taedrin Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.01.31 17:04:00 - [38] Quote: To all of you who say say server lag isnt grounds for reimbursement... say your flying an officer fitted ship persay worth lets say 20bil never have flown one but for sake of arguement. The cost of the ship lost is irrelevant to this situation. As far as the validity of a reimbursement is concerned, there is no difference between an officer fit Titan being lost to lag, and a T1 frigate being lost to lag. Quote: I dont give a flying f what the ula says in this instance the SERVERS caused the loss of a ship and SHOULD be reimbursed.. on the same note i have asked for reimbursement for a BS.. the response is not quoted but was along the lines of And yet you still agreed to the EULA. EVE, unlike other games, does not bind you to a "shrink-wrap license". You have full access to the EULA before you purchase the game. As such, in any country of note, you are contractually bound by the EULA regardless of what you (or anyone else) thinks is "fair". The only reason why EULA's might not be legally binding is because they supposedly agreed to before you are shown the contents of them (IE, you agreed to them when you forked over money at the cash register, but you aren't shown the contents of the EULA until you open the package). Quote: needless to say i was playing on a T3 connection at work on a super computer that cost was probably more than the servers eve runs on.. i knew i wasnt gonna get it but ccp needs to realize that their servers are not good at all and need upgraded losing ships for server lag is making the game less and less appealing First off, please read and note the differences between the following terms: Latency Throughput And to highlight my point I am trying to make: Latency vs throughput CCP has upgraded their servers as far as technology will allow. We have pretty much reached the limits silicon technology can achieve with processor speeds. If you have been paying attention to CPU technology lately, you will notice that AMD and Intel have stopped increasing clock speeds. Technology has stopped emphasizing raw sequential processing speed, and is now emphasizing parallel processing (and reducing bottlenecks). So CCP can no longer simply throw money at their server to make things go faster. What they CAN do, however, is implement RDMA and install infiniband on their servers. But they are OBVIOUSLY too stupid to do something like that. Quote: QFT I've lost more than a couple of ships to this. Sat on a gate, a fleet jumps in, I get 0 fps for 60 seconds+ next thing I know I'm back in the station. I couldn't interact in ANY way during this period. Yet, it's not grounds for reimbursement. Rubbish. It is not grounds for reimbursement because it is a technologically simple thing to reproduce these exact same conditions on the client. All you have to do is use your firewall to suspend internet traffic for 60 seconds, and it's all the same to the server (it sends packets to the client, but client sends no reply back until 60 seconds later). True, it would be nice if we could get reimbursed for ships lost due to lag that is not our fault, but it is not feasible for CCP to determine if lag is, or isn't our fault. The sad fact of the matter, is that the client can not be trusted, as it can be compromised easily.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.01.31 17:34:00 - [39] Originally by: Taedrin bla bla... If CCP can't find anything in the logs, maybe they should work on their logging a bit. Or better yet, include COMMON SENSE when deciding whether or not to reimburse someone. Some of the GMs do this, some don't. For example, when you're sitting on a station within dock range and can't dock... do you really just allow a blob to destroy your ship? Sure some people are stupid, but come on...
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.31 17:39:00 - [40] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Taedrin bla bla... If CCP can't find anything in the logs, maybe they should work on their logging a bit. Or better yet, include COMMON SENSE when deciding whether or not to reimburse someone. Some of the GMs do this, some don't. For example, when you're sitting on a station within dock range and can't dock... do you really just allow a blob to destroy your ship? Sure some people are stupid, but come on... Or maybe when the GMs say that their logs don't show anything that warrants a reimbursement, they mean exactly that, since lag isn't a valid reason. Just maybe. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Taedrin Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.01.31 17:57:00 - [41] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Taedrin bla bla... If CCP can't find anything in the logs, maybe they should work on their logging a bit. Or better yet, include COMMON SENSE when deciding whether or not to reimburse someone. Some of the GMs do this, some don't. For example, when you're sitting on a station within dock range and can't dock... do you really just allow a blob to destroy your ship? Sure some people are stupid, but come on... My argument isn't about logs. I have never had to reimburse a ship, and get my reimbursement request rejected because the "logs showed nothing". As such I can not participate in such arguments. My argument (and it appears that Tarminic's is the same here) is against the notion that lag is a viable reason to be reimbursed. I maintain my argument on the grounds that I have experienced lag many times before, and having a minor technical background, I know enough about computers, networks, and lag to participate in said argument. My argument is also that CCP is not an inept company. I believe that CCP knows more about how to run their servers than we the customers. As such, I believe it is folly for us to complain that "CCP isn't trying", or that "CCP is stupid". I believe that CCP tries their best, and that they actually do a good job at what they do here. But that is all opinion, which I suppose everyone is entitled to here.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.01.31 17:58:00 - [42] THE LOGS THE LOGS I CAN SEE THE LOGS THEY SHOW ME SOMETHING!
Dark Sister	Posted - 2008.01.31 18:05:00 - [43] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Barthezz Lets ignore the whole lag issue thats been plaguing the server ever since... uh, well a really long time... LAG? On the internets! THIS IS THE BIGGEST OUTRAGE EVER!!! This "Lag" as you call it started around 18:04:24 according to the logs...and things started working again at 22:14:23. That is almost 4 HOURS. Lag is not measured in hours, once we're past 1 minute it's officially not lag! (says me) I understand that things become unreliable in big battles but this isn't lag. It's a server crash. Or hitting capacity. I think it's clear the game stopped working as intended at this point. Same way other MMORPG's crash when too many people are in one area. Far as sorting out who should have things replaced, etc...good luck. Have no idea how to solve that issue. Maybe the node doesn't really crash just stops letting people connect once it's at capacity so the first 600 people get to play reasonably well and the remaining players have to wait until the node has free slots for players to connect. (aka warp in) Would be nice is the warp gates would refuse to let you jump into a system that is already maxed out.
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.01.31 18:14:00 - [44] *briefly disconnects cable connecting router and modem ZOMG, SERVER LAG! I WANT REIMBURSEMENT!
Haurian Commando Gallente Cursed Souls Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.01.31 18:16:00 - [45] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin THE LOGS THE LOGS I CAN SEE THE LOGS THEY SHOW ME SOMETHING! unfortunately they don't show you anything about lag --- My Mod autograph collection. Mods, please sign here! --- Please transfer the agreed amount to my Swiss bank account - Mitnal
Westly Synpa GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.31 18:20:00 - [46] dont worry little bee its okay stuff happens just keep at it.
Taedrin Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.01.31 18:25:00 - [47] Originally by: Dark Sister Would be nice is the warp gates would refuse to let you jump into a system that is already maxed out. YAY Jump Queues! They tried that already... Everyone hated it. But seriously, the problem with this is that it would allow a large alliance to "fill up" a system, and thus prevent anyone else from being able to log in/jump in. I actually remember several complaints on the forums about people complaining that they were not able to jump in/log in to protect their POS because the attackers had too big of a blob when CCP did this. This can go the other way too. Players can just make sure that they have too many pilots logged in a system to prevent any threats from being able to enter. As such, this is not the solution we are looking for
General StarScream Borg Collective hive mind	Posted - 2008.01.31 19:11:00 - [48] Originally by: Richard Phallus To think... The devs have been right all along, they really do show nothing! hahaa Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.01.31 20:43:00 - [49] If you warp to a gate and/or jump through a gate, and then "lag out" for 20 seconds, and then are suddenly in a station in your clone.... It would seem obvious that the problem is not the server, as the other person had no problem whatsoever locking you, killing you, locking your pod, and killing it. Its obvious there was an internet hiccup on your path to the server, and not the other guys. fleet fights are another matter, and are well known to anyone whos done alliance level combat. Originally by: Meridius Dex I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.31 22:19:00 - [50] get out of Ji... err... i mean 0.0!!! How i love the irony. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
REAL DEATH	Posted - 2008.01.31 22:36:00 - [51] Edited by: REAL DEATH on 31/01/2008 22:36:36 I'm not a genius, but I'd say that data encryption helps to lag too CCP really? Why is even that damn text(chat) encrypted? Tho I understand login should be crypted but anything else?? Why ??? If someone wants to abuse it, that won't stop them
Xerii Raor	Posted - 2008.01.31 22:41:00 - [52] Just stay out of fleet battles, jita, delve.... Hell, if you don't want lag you should probably find another game.
Jonny Stallsman	Posted - 2008.02.01 00:58:00 - [53] Edited by: Jonny Stallsman on 01/02/2008 01:05:15 Just more evidence this game is not meant to have or capable of fleet combat. Rather then dance around the issue and have GM posts like what is found on page one I wish CCP would just come out and say it. Is it a problem with the language they predominantly use for the client and server or just a lack of sufficient server hardware, time will tell.
Shadow Joy	Posted - 2008.02.01 01:46:00 - [54] Originally by: CCP Prism X ... So we make rules. Then we follow them. We includes you. ...* Cool! Who do I mail my rules to?
Cori4n Caldari principle of motion	Posted - 2008.02.01 03:31:00 - [55] Originally by: Kruel For example, when you're sitting on a station within dock range and can't dock... do you really just allow a blob to destroy your ship? Sure some people are stupid, but come on... There was this one time when I was popped well within dock range... I had removed stations from my overview
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.02.01 04:07:00 - [56] Who has enormous legs? Thunder thighs? hmmm
popsa Brotherhood of Musketeers United Legion	Posted - 2008.03.15 17:40:00 - [57] Edited by: popsa on 15/03/2008 17:40:45
Zeba Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.15 17:57:00 - [58] hehehe. cute pic. --------------------- Q: WTF! Why?! A: Because I can. ---------------------
Vanessa Vale Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.15 18:11:00 - [59] The Goggles! They do nothing! And neither does your ship. The Logs! They do nothing! And neither does petitioning for lag.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.15 18:15:00 - [60] Seems to me like the relationship of some CCP people and most players is similar to "prison guard versus inmate" relationship. CCP makes the rules, CCP is cruel, CCP is ruthless. CCP holds moral highground, CCP has power.. Players are dependent on CCP, Players have no individual power but can exert strong collective influence. Players have the numbers. Players try to plead with CCP, players try to beg, reason with them, players secretly despise their cruel masters. Some players try to kiss up to their masters. CCP despise all of them. EVE is a game of PvP on many levels, that includes fighting the game developers. CCP can beat us down over and over, but people will always get up and fight. Because the game doesn't belong only to CCP now, it also belongs to us.

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THE LOGS THE LOGS I CAN SEE THE LOGS THEY SHOW ME SOMETHING!

THE LOGS THE LOGS I CAN SEE THE LOGS THEY SHOW ME SOMETHING!