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Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.03.26 16:55:00 - [1] There are a bunch of rumours going on about the lottery and various theories about how to exploit it. Yes, I have heard the rumours. I'm looking into the issue, have and will be adding even more logging to properly analyze the distribution. Until I've finished analyzing the data, there is nothing new worthwhile for me to say on the subject however. This does not mean that I'm ignoring the issue, and it doesn't mean that I'll have a result tomorrow or the day after.
Pogy Bait	Posted - 2004.03.26 17:01:00 - [2] Papa Smurf, you are truely the Smurfiest. We lowly mission runners are lucky to have a Dev that is not only concerned about his area of development, but also willing to communicate with us. Please let us know what you find out Will work for fud.
Ayar Cachi	Posted - 2004.03.26 17:42:00 - [3] Papa Smurf is great! Long been my fav dev and a good reason to do agent missions and r&d, etc :) However, I was saddened to read this: Papa is dead. He was killed by the evil Gargamel in a final battle over the virginal Smurfette. Now, years later, Papa Smurf and Gargamel are horrible undead Smurfs of mighty power and disgusting appearance. Smurfette was also killed in the struggle and haunts the forest as a ghost. Link to Full News Article Is this Gargamel guy one of those bloody whining R&D players that start all the whinging posts on the missions forum?
Hakera	Posted - 2004.03.26 18:31:00 - [4] Perhaps a check on characters who have won already and are not entered into 'successive draws' for that bp?. I do believe the stats you posted a while ago on the number of projects with low point in them making up the majority with only a few with lots of RP points. Although as has been pointed out in the other thread that the chances of getting offered the same one again are pretty slim using a randomiser. Must be that colluosal good luck as opposed to normal colluosal bad luck.... Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
JackDonkey	Posted - 2004.03.26 18:46:00 - [5] If there is an issue, one possible solution would be if your research agent would undock from time to time in a frigate so we could blow the living bejesus out of him/her.
Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.03.26 18:49:00 - [6] Quote: If there is an issue, one possible solution would be if your research agent would undock from time to time in a frigate so we could blow the living bejesus out of him/her. good one ;)
Rancid Mare	Posted - 2004.03.26 18:52:00 - [7] on come on.... Quote: There are a bunch of rumours going on about the lottery and various theories about how to exploit it. this has been discussed in the mission and general channels for far too long now and with the lack of ANY interaction from ccp, how can anything OTHER than rumours thrive ? what are the player base exspected to think when there a 7 page thread in the forum about how the RD is all jacked and no one from CCP botheres to interact.. if all that is given to the playing masses are rumours, what else do you exspect them to base their views on ? if as you claim there is nothing wrong with the system, then at the very least CCP are guilty of letting this rumor turn into the snowball it is. and then appear to get the arse about the fact people are concerned. Morkt Drak (a respected player) tried as hard as any player can to open a meaningful and sensible discussion over some legitimate concerns and its was purley CCp's fualt it degenerated into the farce that it has become. the damage casued by this situation ? 1. well you (papa) obviosuly have the hump. 2. Morkt Drak has most probably been left feeling somewhat grieved by the whole situation. 3. the many thousands of people who have been working thier nads off to get a tech 2 BPO have been worried sick that all their hard work was for nothing. ireelevant of the rights or wrongs,or who said or didnt say what ever.. this is the outcome of the last week and someone somewhere needs to make efforts to see it dosnt get repeated too often in the future. as said by many peoeple and ccp themselves and i totaly agree, yes the Dev do have important work to be getting on with. as much as any one i want to see improvements to the game (lvl4 ahem). how ever interaction with the userbase is also an important if not paramount aspect, anything other than the best efforts from CCP will only harm the game. there is a real and immidiate need for this to be adressed, fail to do so at your peril (CCP) and at the exspence of the game as a whole. Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals. Our Webby Recruitement Videos here
Ciber Wulf	Posted - 2004.03.26 19:17:00 - [8] Quote: If there is an issue, one possible solution would be if your research agent would undock from time to time in a frigate so we could blow the living bejesus out of him/her. lolol i wish :) Might put in a feature request!
Trevedian	Posted - 2004.03.26 19:33:00 - [9] Why not post the results of the lotto's weekly? Perhaps even list how many RP's they used to get the BPO. This would add some greatly desired transparency to the process. And Papa, expedite the T2 process and get the T2 weapons here soon :). Four months of running Laser Physics R&D missions for nothing is gettin old. Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
Phaethon	Posted - 2004.03.26 19:35:00 - [10] Edited by: Phaethon on 26/03/2004 19:40:17 Feature request. We really could use some audio to spice up the agent interface. Perhaps CCP could persuade Eddie Murphy to allow them to use the following line from his RAW show "What have you done for me lately" Some new social skills would be nice also. "Persuasion" Unrefusable offers Finding others relatives Lean on Sleep with Ass kissing Take for a drive Sniff around Or one or more gunnery skills: Office Targeting (should need surgical at lvl4 or 5, and fast talk 5 to survive afterwards if one is so inclined) Or perhaps even an isk based skill called Hey i'm rich, I don't have to put up with this. 30k+ points in starship research and not even an indication of any progress on my Mobile Donut Distributor Franchise That one was supposed to make me filthy greasy rich as the donuts it would sell. Think of all those cops idling at the gates in empire space. WTB. Infifitrator I drones
Doc Brown	Posted - 2004.03.26 21:36:00 - [11] Quote: Why not post the results of the lotto's weekly? Perhaps even list how many RP's they used to get the BPO. This would add some greatly desired transparency to the process. And Papa, expedite the T2 process and get the T2 weapons here soon :). Four months of running Laser Physics R&D missions for nothing is gettin old. This is a good idea.. but to be fair, it could be just general information. e.x: Gravition Phyics - 2 BP's discovered this week. Went to researchers with 50 and 456,898 RP's Jove Ship Engineering - 0 BP's discovered _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2004.03.26 22:40:00 - [12] Quote: Quote: Why not post the results of the lotto's weekly? Perhaps even list how many RP's they used to get the BPO. This would add some greatly desired transparency to the process. And Papa, expedite the T2 process and get the T2 weapons here soon :). Four months of running Laser Physics R&D missions for nothing is gettin old. This is a good idea.. but to be fair, it could be just general information. e.x: Gravition Phyics - 2 BP's discovered this week. Went to researchers with 50 and 456,898 RP's Jove Ship Engineering - 0 BP's discovered hmm yeah - that might be rather useful/good.
voogru	Posted - 2004.03.27 00:44:00 - [13] Quote: If there is an issue, one possible solution would be if your research agent would undock from time to time in a frigate so we could blow the living bejesus out of him/her. And if you kill the frigate it drops a bp. ------- Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes Guardian Enforcer, wrecking for 827.3 damage.
ZedZulu	Posted - 2004.03.27 03:42:00 - [14] Results of the "lottery" ..........Grrreeat Idea !! NEWS YOU CAN USE BP Name , BP issued by:, Corp Name (that winner belongs to) , region , system , skills required ,RP'S of winner, Timestamp . Enough info for us all to see patterns and trust the fact that it is random. Also will know what corp to contact for new T2 goodies :)
Jullyx	Posted - 2004.03.27 09:30:00 - [15] Nice one Papa! Please have a close look at it and let usknow your findings. I have plenty of RP but I won't complain as I know my luck with raffles has been zero for 32 years already! lol I just want it to be fair, nothing more, nothing else. Many thanks again Papa and ep hegood wrk for us! And publication of BPs distributed is a great idea, but keep the receiver anonymus! Just BP types and associated research field! ____________________ Space is still the place... Se a montanha nao vai ate Maome, Maome vai ate a monthanha!
Doc Brown	Posted - 2004.03.27 10:14:00 - [16] Quote: Results of the "lottery" ..........Grrreeat Idea !! NEWS YOU CAN USE BP Name , BP issued by:, Corp Name (that winner belongs to) , region , system , skills required ,RP'S of winner, Timestamp . Enough info for us all to see patterns and trust the fact that it is random. Also will know what corp to contact for new T2 goodies :) Naa.. That would give too much information as to who might have won the bp. I'd say just field(Skill) and issueing npc corp name. _________________________________________________ There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations.
Booky	Posted - 2004.03.27 17:21:00 - [17] Quote: Results of the "lottery" ..........Grrreeat Idea !! NEWS YOU CAN USE BP Name , BP issued by:, Corp Name (that winner belongs to) , region , system , skills required ,RP'S of winner, Timestamp . Enough info for us all to see patterns and trust the fact that it is random. Also will know what corp to contact for new T2 goodies :) Some people do NOT want others to know they got a BP. Also, you know damn well that if information got out that "XYZ" corp got a Raven II BPO or something like that then everyone and thier brother would either hound them to build, or start wars with them to try and get the origional. I know if I ever get a T2 BPO, I will NOT tell anyone or sell the item with this char, I will create an alt to do that stuff. Spelling corrections welcome, but don't expect me to edit my post.
Lord Kermit	Posted - 2004.03.27 20:17:00 - [18] well.. at least someone is looking into the "situation" took only what? 2-3 months of complaining... LK
DHU InMe	Posted - 2004.03.27 22:27:00 - [19] Better coperation than Microsoft hotfix ans patches :) But still far from Linux's community patch and hotfix ! Nice links (updated 20 Dec 04): BP, bugs about them. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way.
Viduus	Posted - 2004.03.27 22:54:00 - [20] Quote: There are a bunch of rumours going on about the lottery and various theories about how to exploit it. Yes, I have heard the rumours. I'm looking into the issue, have and will be adding even more logging to properly analyze the distribution. Until I've finished analyzing the data, there is nothing new worthwhile for me to say on the subject however. This does not mean that I'm ignoring the issue, and it doesn't mean that I'll have a result tomorrow or the day after. [humor]Papa Smurf said in 3 days, these issues will all be resolved![/humor] Thanks Mr. Blue :} * Public Channel: NEA *
Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.03.28 11:17:00 - [21] Quote: Quote: Results of the "lottery" ..........Grrreeat Idea !! NEWS YOU CAN USE BP Name , BP issued by:, Corp Name (that winner belongs to) , region , system , skills required ,RP'S of winner, Timestamp . Enough info for us all to see patterns and trust the fact that it is random. Also will know what corp to contact for new T2 goodies :) Some people do NOT want others to know they got a BP. Also, you know damn well that if information got out that "XYZ" corp got a Raven II BPO or something like that then everyone and thier brother would either hound them to build, or start wars with them to try and get the origional. I know if I ever get a T2 BPO, I will NOT tell anyone or sell the item with this char, I will create an alt to do that stuff. No worries. We'll never give out the details to this level. Too much grief, too little gain.
Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.03.28 11:25:00 - [22] Quote: ... and it doesn't mean that I'll have a result tomorrow or the day after. [humor]Papa Smurf said in 3 days, these issues will all be resolved![/humor] Thanks Mr. Blue :} /me suspects that this is how a large number of rumours are actually started... ;)
Athule Snanm	Posted - 2004.03.28 12:06:00 - [23] I'd just like to add I that I think PapaS is by far the best at communicating of all the devs! Whilst the other devs occasionally open threads it comes across more as a 'suggestion box system' rather than real two-way communication. Whilst I whinge quite a lot about missions these days - something must be right about them as I've been doing them solidy for months now :-) _______________________________ Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene!
Harisdrop	Posted - 2004.03.28 19:17:00 - [24] Quote: No worries. We'll never give out the details to this level. Too much grief, too little gain. We will never know will we Morkt. He will look into it and see the details you dream of. He will find its as is and there will be sad people. You know I would have wished I would of won on my trip to the casino its not fair. -------------------------- Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2004.03.28 21:11:00 - [25] Hari... You are becomming a real cyber-stalker you know? This is the fifth thread you've made a weird reference at/to me. (Though personally I still haven't worked out exactly what you are trying to say. ) Fortunately, for the rest of EVE, your efforts to have the entire lottery issues ignored and swept under the carpet have failed utterly and completely. Not only are the issues being looked into, but the entire system is being targetted for a major overhaul. This, Hari, is called progression and it is a good thing. You have the choice to be involved in those discussion OR you can persist in your strange anti-Morkt campaign and continue to pretend nothing is going to change and everything is perfect. The choice is, obviously, yours. Whatever you decide to do will, no doubt, have no bearing whatsoever on anybody else in EVE, a bit like your complete and total failure to have these issue ignored. I know I mentioned that twice, but as it was such a whoppingly massive and complete faillure it was worth saying it again. The discussion thread below (started by me) is where people who want to see change for the better become involved. PapaSmurf has already given us some great ideas for improvements. Try getting involved in that discussion. You could be part of improvements or you could just continue stalking me with comments I don't understand and don't really care about. One of them might do some good, the other is a complete waste of time and will never have any effect whatsoever.
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2004.03.28 22:12:00 - [26] Quote: Results of the "lottery" ..........Grrreeat Idea !! NEWS YOU CAN USE BP Name , BP issued by:, Corp Name (that winner belongs to) , region , system , skills required ,RP'S of winner, Timestamp . Enough info for us all to see patterns and trust the fact that it is random. aaaargh beats head repeatedly against wall Random does NOT mean there are no patterns! In fact, random almost CERTAINLY means there will be a pattern of some description, if you look hard enough to find it. _______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age."
Tokka Konnair	Posted - 2004.03.28 23:18:00 - [27] Edited by: Tokka Konnair on 28/03/2004 23:19:48 i agree totaly everyone is going to have to accept that it IS entirely possible that there's nothing wrong with the lottery and the freak events that occur are the result of utter randomness NOT impossible, just improbable __________________________________________
Nilradical	Posted - 2004.03.29 00:43:00 - [28] Quote: Edited by: Tokka Konnair on 28/03/2004 23:19:48 i agree totaly everyone is going to have to accept that it IS entirely possible that there's nothing wrong with the lottery and the freak events that occur are the result of utter randomness NOT impossible, just improbable There is a difference between merely improbable and ridiculously improbable. There is not enough information around at the moment to say with a high degree of certainty which exact level of improbability the lottery is at. However, anecdotal evidence would seem to suggest that there are too many people with multiple blueprint offers for one to be highly confident in the process. It would be interesting for someone with sufficient information to calculate what the expected number of people with multiple offers should be and various confidence intervals for this figure. My suspicion is that the actual number of multiple blueprint offers would lie outside any reasonable confidence interval. Baldour, Although there may be historical patterns in a random output, if the events are independent* and weightings known, it should not be possible to use these patterns to help predict future events. I think people on these boards have been predicting for along time based on the observation that people who have received an offer are more likely to be offered a blueprint in the future. *The lotteries are not strictly independent as winning (and cashing in on) a lottery lowers your chances in successive lotteries. As the pattern the is being complained about is completely contrary to this relationship, an analysis based on an assumption of independence has merit as it will overestimate the number of expected multiple offers.
Sarge MadDog	Posted - 2004.03.29 11:18:00 - [29] What lottery?
Drahcir Nasom	Posted - 2004.03.30 12:16:00 - [30] Papa Smurf Here's an idea to help the lottery, how about having a minimum number of RP that a player must have before being entered into the lottery. Values could be:- 1000 RP for a x1 skill 2000 RP for a x2 skill 3000 RP for a x3 skill Not only would this be more reflective of the fact people have actually done some work before getting a breakthrough (works out at about 20 days research before being entered into the lottery), but it would also prevent people from getting the same BP twice a few days in a row. Drahcir Nasom

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