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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.01.31 03:28:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Darth Decon Edited by: Darth Decon on 31/01/2008 03:04:18 hey i have engenigering to lvl 5 electornic's to lvl 5 wepon upgrads to 5 and advanced to lvl 4 and over a mill in leadership just because i cant use your fittings dosnt mean i have no buiseness in a commandship
Then the fitting works. Why is this complicated? I have the exact same fitting skills as you do, and I've actually flown the ship, not just put it together in EFT. I think I've even flown it with lower fitting skills and the same setups, before I got AWU IV.
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Darth Decon
Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
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Posted - 2008.01.31 03:48:00 -
[32]
ok with my setup's with missle Launchers i cant fitt a LSB i dont have the ability to have a LSB on it with my setup's Your setups work good for you and mine work good for mine lets leave it at that please.
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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.01.31 05:47:00 -
[33]
This rant is just so beautiful I just have to share it:
Quote: 2008.01.31 03:25 Listen i dont know who you think you are but you can stop it right now im getting sick of you acting like a baby critisizing my vulture setup when you dont even know how i use it ok.... how about i say your fittings suck and you dont know how to fitt your ships and your setups are broke and mine is good enoph is enoph man so stop posting on my post...... you Think your setup is the best becuase there not nether is mine i fitt whats best for my skills and you fitt whats best for yours leave it as that and stop Posting there Merin........
So many things wrong with this horrible abuse of the english language. But the simple fact is, if you disagree with my setups, feel free to say so, just as long as you say WHY you disagree and back it up with some numbers. You posted a setup for comment, so you have no right to complain that we actually commented instead of just mindlessly complimenting you on your amazing EFT skills.
The simple fact is your setups are just not very good. The fact that you've so far only been in situations where other factors compensate for the poor setups does not change this one bit. And neither does your silly "you have your setup I have mine" comment... that's nothing more than stubborn refusal to consider that someone else might have a better idea than your pet setup. Now if you're willing to settle for "good enough", fine, that's your right. But those of us who actually fit the best ship we possibly can will be happy to take your killmail.
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Darth Decon
Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
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Posted - 2008.01.31 06:38:00 -
[34]
ok lets talk about your Sniping setup it can has an optimal of 206km +14km falloff which in total is 220 km and deal 210 Dps not bad. How ever mine can shoot out to 218 +14 falloff which is 232 km and deal 226 DPS
far as the fleet setup your about 500dps off yo can only tank 990 still is impressive but its still no 1400 like you clam and it dosnt do more but less dps then your sniper setup at 209 and you dont use only two seige links you use all three in a fleet.
you blaster setup can only tank 360 and deal 447 DPS which is good how ever if you ar trying to use blasters you need a web if you dont have a point and a web your setup isnt that affective for the blaster setup not to mention if you did fit the blaster setup with a scram and a web you would only tank 177 dps. i am sorry but unless you fitt 4 t2 Sheild power reallys and 2 core defense field purgers in rig slot you wont tank over 1400 and i got these statistics on EFT using the All lvl 5 skill set so it is not posible to tank 1400 dps with any of your setups you have just posted.
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Darth Decon
Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
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Posted - 2008.01.31 06:50:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Darth Decon on 31/01/2008 06:50:14 Merin Ryskin If you dont know we are bob friendly and i dissagre with your setups. Like all setups in this game none of them are perfect but they are good pending on what there purpose of the pilots intending on using them wether it be PVP or PVE. As ive shown in my prevous post those are the reasons i dissagree with your setup's
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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.01.31 06:53:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 31/01/2008 06:53:41
Originally by: Darth Decon ok lets talk about your Sniping setup it can has an optimal of 206km +14km falloff which in total is 220 km and deal 210 Dps not bad. How ever mine can shoot out to 218 +14 falloff which is 232 km and deal 226 DPS
And THIS is why EFT is a bad thing for 95% of EVE. Yes, you hit slightly farther because you drop a magstab for a tracking enhancer, where I consider 200km range good enough (you will rarely ever have a target that far away to shoot at). However, you are completely wrong on the dps. Your "extra" dps comes from using Hobgoblins where I use Warrior IIs for anti-tackler defense. But remember, drones have a limit of around 50km, so for pure gun dps, I'm doing more damage where it counts.
Quote: far as the fleet setup your about 500dps off yo can only tank 990 still is impressive but its still no 1400 like you clam and it dosnt do more but less dps then your sniper setup at 209 and you dont use only two seige links you use all three in a fleet.
1) Again, this is why EFT is a bad thing. You're forgetting to apply the gang mod and mindlink bonuses. Since my character has all the mindlink and all shield gank skills to V with the exception of Warfare Link Specialization (10% bonus), I will be tanking well over 1000 dps. I tank 1252 dps out of a theoretical maximum of 1394 (not counting implants besides the mindlink, which will raise it over 1400).
2) Of course it does less damage than my sniper setup, my sniper setup is an un-tanked fleet sniper, while the small gang railboat is set up for maximum tank. Which means PDUs in the lows instead of damage mods (more cap to sustain the tank), and dropping the guns to 200mm rails to fit the injector, LSB II, and two gang mods.
3) No, you don't use all three links in a fleet. You always use the resist link. You sometimes use cycle time link if you have active tankers in your gang (which is almost never, in a large fleet). You (almost) never waste space on the cap reduction link, since PvP ships are never sustainable and are expected to die before running out of cap. If you want to fit a third gang mod, you fit something from another race.
Quote: you blaster setup can only tank 360 and deal 447 DPS which is good how ever if you ar trying to use blasters you need a web if you dont have a point and a web your setup isnt that affective for the blaster setup
The blaster ship is a gang ship, and does not need a web or scram. I have tackler frigates to do that for me. But if you want to try to fly the ship solo, feel free to drop the EM hardener and an invulnerability field for the web and scram. I don't think this is a very good idea, because the Vulture is too slow and a bit too lacking in dps to be a really effective solo ship.
Quote: not to mention if you did fit the blaster setup with a scram and a web you would only tank 177 dps.
You're missing the entire point of the blaster setup. It's a passive buffer tank, not a passive regen tank. The whole point is to get a huge effective hitpoint total to survive un-tankable fire for as long as possible before you die. The regen is just a nice side effect, I only mention it to point out how useless a medium shield booster is.
Quote: i am sorry but unless you fitt 4 t2 Sheild power reallys and 2 core defense field purgers in rig slot you wont tank over 1400 and i got these statistics on EFT using the All lvl 5 skill set so it is not posible to tank 1400 dps with any of your setups you have just posted.
Gang mods. Mindlink. Use them.
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Darth Decon
Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
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Posted - 2008.01.31 07:04:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Darth Decon on 31/01/2008 07:05:11 im sorry to inform you but i did do all of that you just stated and its still no 1400 dps srry but your calculations are wrong
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Katrina Coreli
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.01.31 08:16:00 -
[38]
Please just swallow your pride and use merins setups. Your setups may work for you but you are not getting the best out of the ship at all. Its all very well saying "it works for you" but it is not doing nearly as well as it could be.
Hop off EFT and hop on the test server or something and give it a try.
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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.01.31 08:23:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 31/01/2008 08:32:42 Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 31/01/2008 08:31:01
Originally by: Darth Decon Edited by: Darth Decon on 31/01/2008 07:05:11 im sorry to inform you but i did do all of that you just stated and its still no 1400 dps srry but your calculations are wrong
I'm sorry to inform you that you are not doing it right. I'm sitting here with the setup loaded in EFT right here. The problem is you are looking at sustained tank, where I am quoting the maximum tank (which lasts 1 min 40 seconds). Sustained tank is completely irrelevant, if you survive over 2 minutes under focused fire from your opponents, your gang has pretty much won the fight already. In a more realistic scenario, you will be taking well over 1400 dps, and you will die well before you run out of cap.
Actually, I'm not sure which mistake you're making, since either way you're rounding something to 900. If you're actually getting a peak tank of 900 dps (905 actually), you are forgetting two things:
1) Add the Siege Warfare Mindlink implant.
2) Set the ship as fleet commander to recieve bonuses properly.
And I notice you aren't even trying to answer my responses to your criticisms. I will take that as a concession that my setups actually are better than yours, and the "flaws" you pointed out are due to nothing more than your misunderstanding of the ship and game mechanics in general.
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Darth Decon
Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
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Posted - 2008.01.31 13:17:00 -
[40]
The fact is i dont agree with merins setups there for im not going to use them because they wont work well for the gang/ fleet's or gang pvp that i use it for Plain and simple. and evry time he post he sounds like a major ***** i know what i am doing and if you want to be a ***** further merin how about you try my setups befopre you open your mouth further. Because im getting you havent even tryed my setup at all. or the base of your argument is that i dont have a LSB Boo hoo, I know my setup's will work otherwise why would i post them here. i dont post setup's that wont work so Merin get off your high horse and take a look at my setup's and swallow the fact not evryone has the same damn setup that you use But i sont know how you dont see it. Ive looked at your setup i did the math and i did not like what i see therefore i willnot use your setup's in the fleets i am in. Also Just because i dont use your's dosnt mean i will die but you think thatand your dead wrong.
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Kealem
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Posted - 2008.01.31 13:50:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Darth Decon Edited by: Darth Decon on 31/01/2008 13:36:16 Edited by: Darth Decon on 31/01/2008 13:34:25 will die but you think thatand your dead wrong. and im not moking how you type so dont moke me i know the english laguege very well because i was born in the US.
Oh... dear... Lord... make it... stop...
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2008.01.31 15:20:00 -
[42]
I'm shaking my head here at you Darth...
Merin may be abrasive - but he really knows what the hell he's talking about. I've argued with him before, and I ended up changing my mind on a couple things after the discussion (mind you half the time I was rolling my eyes at his attitude).
Darth you are locked into a very very stubborn mindset. Look at what a lot of people are telling you.
If you have the grid/CPU - there is NO - NONE whatsoever - reason NOT to use a large shield booster over a medium shield booster.
If you're active tanking you're setup to absorb a spike of damage over a relatively short time. A large shield booster does that 2x as effectively as a medium shield booster.
If you need to be more cap stable to run a MSB instead of the LSB - pulse the damn thing, so you still maintain the tactical flexibility to spike your defence when needed.
Or go passive - he has a stout passive setup which will help you absorb damage for a tremendous amount of time without the cap issues.
Your setup may work - but his works better.
If you want to be stubborn have at it - you may just be doing it because Merin annoyed you, but let it go, and achieve the best you can with your ship.
__________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2008.01.31 15:25:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Darth Decon ...and im not moking how you type so dont moke me i know the english laguege very well because i was born in the US.
Sigh... Now I can see why the world makes fun of us... __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
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Weeka
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.01.31 15:36:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Omarvelous Sigh... Now I can see why the world makes fun of us...
You'll get over it some day
Darth? You are wrong, Merin is right. Its rather obvious you can't see his point, even when he explained it in a way that would make even Forrest Gump bored. Did the EFT thing, 1400 dps is right - heaven knows what you keep doing wrong. Please just believe it, even if you can't understand it.
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Darth Decon
Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
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Posted - 2008.01.31 15:41:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Omarvelous I'm shaking my head here at you Darth...
Merin may be abrasive - but he really knows what the hell he's talking about. I've argued with him before, and I ended up changing my mind on a couple things after the discussion (mind you half the time I was rolling my eyes at his attitude).
Darth you are locked into a very very stubborn mindset. Look at what a lot of people are telling you.
If you have the grid/CPU - there is NO - NONE whatsoever - reason NOT to use a large shield booster over a medium shield booster.
If you're active tanking you're setup to absorb a spike of damage over a relatively short time. A large shield booster does that 2x as effectively as a medium shield booster.
If you need to be more cap stable to run a MSB instead of the LSB - pulse the damn thing, so you still maintain the tactical flexibility to spike your defence when needed.
Or go passive - he has a stout passive setup which will help you absorb damage for a tremendous amount of time without the cap issues.
Your setup may work - but his works better.
If you want to be stubborn have at it - you may just be doing it because Merin annoyed you, but let it go, and achieve the best you can with your ship.
yeah Ok ill see what i can modify my setup so i can get a LSB on my vulture and see how it goes.... Or mabey i will go passive tank but i will see what i can do and build on it. I just dont like Merin's attitued about the whole thing... Thanks your your imput Omarvelous
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evriss
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2008.01.31 16:10:00 -
[46]
this topic wins....
i personally dont understand peoples errections for tuning on a SB all the time, when they criple there peak DPS tanked to do so.
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Darth Decon
Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
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Posted - 2008.01.31 16:15:00 -
[47]
Originally by: evriss this topic wins....
i personally dont understand peoples errections for tuning on a SB all the time, when they criple there peak DPS tanked to do so.
Dont know how to respond to that one lol
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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.01.31 18:44:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Omarvelous
Originally by: Darth Decon ...and im not moking how you type so dont moke me i know the english laguege very well because i was born in the US.
Sigh... Now I can see why the world makes fun of us...
What he said. Seriously, this is just painful to read... you should be learning to write, not wasting time on a video game.
Quote: Because im getting you havent even tryed my setup at all. or the base of your argument is that i dont have a LSB
I don't need to try your setups to know they're broken. All I have to do is look at the numbers to see that if you're going with an active tank, the LSB is the only correct choice.
Quote: Boo hoo, I know my setup's will work otherwise why would i post them here. i dont post setup's that wont work so Merin get off your high horse and take a look at my setup's and swallow the fact not evryone has the same damn setup that you use
Do you even bother reading my posts, or do you just stop at the first disagreement and whine a little more? I've already explained this multiple times: your setups "work" because you fly them in a gang, and the rest of your fleet compensates for your poor setups. Individual ship quality matters far less in gangs, but this doesn't make your setups good. You still have a lot of room to improve, even if you're able to fool yourself into thinking otherwise.
Quote: But i sont know how you dont see it. Ive looked at your setup i did the math and i did not like what i see therefore i willnot use your setup's in the fleets i am in.
You did the math wrong. I don't know why this is hard to understand, not only do I have the setup right in front of me, but someone else in this thread verified my numbers.
Now, your setups have fundamental mistakes, whether you want to admit it or not. I will repeat them, just to be clear:
1) Your sniper and "fleet" setups lacks a MWD. MWDs are mandatory on all PvP ships, so fit one.
2) Your use of MSBs is fundamentally flawed, giving lower performance in every way than a LSB setup.
3) Your combination of extenders and boosters gives a worst of both worlds setup, with all the cap problems of an active setup and the lower regen of a passive setup. Same with rigs... you're using extender rigs, without thinking about making them as effective as possible. Just look at your blaster setup, you use a MSB tank with zero extenders... but you still have the extender rigs. Active shield boost rigs do exist, you know.
4) You obviously don't understand sniping mechanics, because you are claiming higher damage on your sniper setup with fewer damage mods than mine. Drones do not work at 200km, so counting them is just silly. And so is bragging about 10km better range at 200km, when you will almost never have a target outside 200km to shoot at anyway.
5) You don't understand gang mods, because you insist on fitting all three shield mods in a fleet fight (and even complain that my setup does not do this). In reality, only one, maybe two of them are worth fitting, and if you want to fit three gang mods, you fit one from another race. I fly in gangs where command ships are common, so I don't bother with this, since a correct-race CS will be providing a higher bonus than I could.
6) Your small gang setup lacks a gang mod, you should always at least fit the resist mod.
7) You don't understand the stacking penalty, because you fit four magstabs on your blaster setup. The fourth one is essentially useless, so a PDU or damage control is better in every way.
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Darth Decon
Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
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Posted - 2008.01.31 19:13:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Darth Decon on 31/01/2008 19:14:07 Mern i understand about my setup BUT SHUT UP ABOUT EVRYTHING ELSE YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO ACT LIKE AN ASS HOLE LIKE YOU ARE YOUR BEING A BIG ***** AND POKING AT HOW I TYPE SO STFU IM A GRADUATE GOING TO COLLEGE RIGHT NOW SO JUST STFU I DONT NEED TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL YOU ***** YOUR TAKING THIS **** TO FAR AND IT ENDS HERE
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Kealem
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Posted - 2008.01.31 19:26:00 -
[50]
Oh, oh God, wow, I love this thread. Do some pot man or take some valium, you need to chill.
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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.01.31 19:35:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 31/01/2008 19:37:14
Originally by: Darth Decon Edited by: Darth Decon on 31/01/2008 19:14:07 Mern i understand about my setup BUT SHUT UP ABOUT EVRYTHING ELSE YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO ACT LIKE AN ASS HOLE LIKE YOU ARE YOUR BEING A BIG ***** AND POKING AT HOW I TYPE SO STFU IM A GRADUATE GOING TO COLLEGE RIGHT NOW SO JUST STFU I DONT NEED TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL YOU ***** YOUR TAKING THIS **** TO FAR AND IT ENDS HERE
You know, I was going to say something about how you are obviously lying, and no self-respecting university would let you in with such awful writing skills. But instead, I will let your own words (taken from your little in-game rant to me) speak for themselves:
Rathverg > I AM ENGLISH I WAS BORN IN THE USA
I do, of course, accept your concession on setups. I'm glad I could help you improve your setups and maybe score a few more killmails.
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Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.31 19:35:00 -
[52]
Wtf?! I fly a vulture, i forget to post here, and i miss an arguement with a basement 30 year old :( Damnit.
hi all!
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Ral Ulgur
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.01.31 21:49:00 -
[53]
Ohnoes's the use's of the op's apostrophe's give my eye's the hurt'z
Sorry for that, back on topic:
POS Hugger Vulture:
Lows: 3x Caldary Navy Co-Processor 1x PDS II
Meds: 4x Command Processor 1x Cap Recharger II
Higs: 7 Warfarelinks of your choice
Permaruns everything with decent cap skills.
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NeoTheo
Caldari Species 5618 Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.01.31 23:55:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Darth Decon Edited by: Darth Decon on 31/01/2008 19:14:07 Mern i understand about my setup BUT SHUT UP ABOUT EVRYTHING ELSE YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO ACT LIKE AN ASS HOLE LIKE YOU ARE YOUR BEING A BIG ***** AND POKING AT HOW I TYPE SO STFU IM A GRADUATE GOING TO COLLEGE RIGHT NOW SO JUST STFU I DONT NEED TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL YOU ***** YOUR TAKING THIS **** TO FAR AND IT ENDS HERE
Ohhh Just LOL, VERY LoL. Merin, thank you. Lots ;)
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slothe
Caldari 0utbreak
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Posted - 2008.02.01 01:28:00 -
[55]
my setup
2x gang mods 5(?) x neutron blasters t2
mwd web disruptor t2 lse t2 dread guristas passive em hardner 1x large sb
3x pds 1x mag stab
2x core defence whatsits
drones
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Darth Decon
Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
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Posted - 2008.02.01 05:12:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Darth Decon on 01/02/2008 05:14:30
Originally by: slothe my setup
2x gang mods 5(?) x neutron blasters t2
mwd web disruptor t2 lse t2 dread guristas passive em hardner 1x large sb
3x pds 1x mag stab
2x core defence whatsits
drones
instead of 1 magstab you would want at least two if not three and 1 PDS in the low's
In the mids You can keep you're MWD, web and Disruptor 2, Put a invule t2 and keep the EM hardner and the LSB and you can tank 513 DPS
In the High's Keep the x5 Nutron blaster II's and use only 1 gang assist mod that will give you 407 DPS and 1175 alpha to work with.
the drones should be Hobgoblin II's x5 which in total will bring your Dps to 506 and still 1175 alpha.
In the rigslots Put 2 core diffrence field purger 1
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velmistr Ecco
Caldari InNova Tech Inc Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.02.01 10:30:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Darth Decon ...
If I were you I would be happy that guys from respectable alliances who actually flies their vultures often share their setups. I'm surprised Merin even read your posts (I'm not that good).
Vulture is not a main damage boat for any gang. So there is no point in using hobgoblins at all. IMHO warriors or ECM drones are far better.
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Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.01 12:23:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Darth Decon Edited by: Darth Decon on 01/02/2008 05:14:30
Originally by: slothe my setup
2x gang mods 5(?) x neutron blasters t2
mwd web disruptor t2 lse t2 dread guristas passive em hardner 1x large sb
3x pds 1x mag stab
2x core defence whatsits
drones
instead of 1 magstab you would want at least two if not three and 1 PDS in the low's
In the mids You can keep you're MWD, web and Disruptor 2, Put a invule t2 and keep the EM hardner and the LSB and you can tank 513 DPS
In the High's Keep the x5 Nutron blaster II's and use only 1 gang assist mod that will give you 407 DPS and 1175 alpha to work with.
the drones should be Hobgoblin II's x5 which in total will bring your Dps to 506 and still 1175 alpha.
In the rigslots Put 2 core diffrence field purger 1
Lol @ Your Advice giving. But you made a spelling mistake - Shouldnt it be a Medium Shield Booster?
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Guygeboe
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Posted - 2008.02.01 13:37:00 -
[59]
This Darth Decon dude is so funny :D
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Calexis Atredies
Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.01 13:45:00 -
[60]
Calexis Atredies waves to Waxau
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Darth Decon Edited by: Darth Decon on 01/02/2008 05:14:30
Originally by: slothe my setup
2x gang mods 5(?) x neutron blasters t2
mwd web disruptor t2 lse t2 dread guristas passive em hardner 1x large sb
3x pds 1x mag stab
2x core defence whatsits
drones
instead of 1 magstab you would want at least two if not three and 1 PDS in the low's
In the mids You can keep you're MWD, web and Disruptor 2, Put a invule t2 and keep the EM hardner and the LSB and you can tank 513 DPS
In the High's Keep the x5 Nutron blaster II's and use only 1 gang assist mod that will give you 407 DPS and 1175 alpha to work with.
the drones should be Hobgoblin II's x5 which in total will bring your Dps to 506 and still 1175 alpha.
In the rigslots Put 2 core diffrence field purger 1
Lol @ Your Advice giving. But you made a spelling mistake - Shouldnt it be a Medium Shield Booster?
^ owned :P This thread is now belong to the drunkards!!
But Darth seriously you're getting input from people who have thrown their ships in the deep end and tweaked their setups untill they are at their optimum. Here is the best tip though: Take your ship onto SI and sit it in FFA1 and adjust the tank untill you find the one which helps you survive longest :P
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