| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Magazaki
   |
Posted - 2008.02.03 02:18:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Xequecal
I'll bet a billion ISK that three months from now there are still at least twice as many Megathrons in a typical fleet than Apocs.
I would take it if there were enough amarr pilots. But let me tell you this: after this patch NO person that CAN fly an apoca and can field T2 large lasers will use a mega. But who will take the time to see how many people that did fly mega will fly apoca from day 1 of the patch??
-----sig-----
Originally by: Kaemonn:Signature
Originally by: kieron: off duty
You dont have to swallow!
Win... |
Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
|
Posted - 2008.02.03 09:20:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Atius Tirawa
Merin, I honestly don't see your problem.
The Rokh can still use Cal/Gal navy ammo and out damge the Apoc, it also still reaches further out. It does do more damage then the Megathron, but it also tracks a lot less.
Now the dev blog is clear as to what the role of Amarr ships will be - they are the gank and tank race with good range. Caldari get the massive range but low damage. So its a good selection - range for damage.
Merin's point is that this tradeoff is not happening. An Apoc can be fitted such that it will hit at 250km, same as the Rokh, so the Rokh does not have a range advantage over the Apoc. This Apoc will also deal more damage and track better. The Rokh can, if similarly pushed, achieve 300km optimal. It just cannot use the 300km optimal.
It will scratch paint at the distances we're talking about, but that's the tradeoff for such ranges. I see no problem with allowing a Rokh pilot willing to give up most everything else for raw max range to hit at 300, 350 km. Getting a fleet of such things would require many maxed out Rokh pilots, and that fleet certainly won't be doomsday tanked. They'll be glass cannons. Your own fleet can also probably get a warp-in point on a covops a little closer to their own optimals, where other sniper BS will out-damage the Rokhs rather badly.
An Officer-pimped, max skilled, both 5% range implants (optimal and falloff), without drugs, could theoretically hit out to almost 410 km, but he wouldn't even scratch paint at that range, and the setup is really rather impractical for anything except comedy killmails and alphaing frigates.
As for your contention that the Rokh will out-damage the Apoc at closer ranges by using high-damage ammo, this is not true at most ranges. Beyond 150km, everyone will be using Spike/Aurora anyway (Apoc wins). CN Iridium has about the same DPS as Spike, but an optimal of about 160km. Great tracking, though. But to get the same 357 DPS as our theoretical Apoc it has to bump all the way down to Thorium, at which point our Apoc has swapped out for AN Standards and is doing even better DPS.
The Rokh's real advantage in the current environment is that it can hit sniper ranges while still fitting a doomsday tank. This advantage is not to be underestimated. However, it seems fair to give Rokh pilots the option to gimp their fits to achieve some truly ridiculous ranges, if the Apoc can gimp theirs to reach current Rokh range.
--------------------
ICE Blueprint Sales
FIRST!! -Yipsilanti
Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
|
Posted - 2008.02.03 14:40:00 -
[33]
I agree with the OP.
It's silly to have ships with range bonuses, bouncing off range caps.
That 250km locking, as I recall, was put in because ECMs _didn't_ have an optimal range initially. So a scorp could jam as far as it could lock (cue 400km permajamming).
And .... actually, on the faction ammo note, it's CN iridium (e.g. 20% range bonus) that does the same damage as spike. So you _don't_ get more damage, at anything past iridium range.
Damage for range is a fair trade. Damage for ... hitting the locking cap with less tracking computers, isn't.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Ephiel
Gallente
Zab's Canon
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 14:26:00 -
[34]
HI, I just got an idea i was thinking longer of now to "fix" the problem the Rokh has compared to the Mega / Apoc now. Well many ppl are talking about rising the Rokh dmg to be an efficient long range sniper but on the other hand many ppl suggest not to do thats for good reasons. My idea was about a Bonus that could boost the Rokh again as a real Sniper ship but dont makes it stronger over time.
How about a bonus on dmg combinet with a penality on Fireing rate. Like 25% more dmg and 25% slower rate of fire. So thats the Rokh still has exactly the same dps like it can get now but becomes a real nice Alpha striker. Perhaps like this it could perform better without changing the max Lockrange ? perhaps also interesting on Blaster setups jumping directly on your head.
Just an idea and calculations are just an example. Im also not used to Fleetbattles so i would happy to get some feedback. Goal is give it a Alpha Strike boost but dont higher damage per second.
[ 24" iMac C2D 2,16GHz | 2GB RAM | 7600GT ] |
Ulstan
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 15:33:00 -
[35]
Combination of spike ammo and range cap means that the rokh doesn't actually trade damage for extra range on the other snipers, it means that after the patch they'll all shoot more or less the same range, but the Rokh does the least damage. :p
|
Altaica Amur
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 18:31:00 -
[36]
As a Rokh pilot myself I have to largely agree with the sentiments here that suggest that now, especially after bringing in such a challenge to the Rokh's position as supreme fleet sniper it could do with the lifting of the targeting cap. Currently the Rokh's favored range is a relatively tiny sliver from 220km or so to the lock cap where every other sniper will be shooting into falloff. However a combination of tracking advantages on both the apoc and the mega minimize this advantage, especially with the apoc reaching so far out now. Those who quote the tankability as the Rokh's main advantage do have a point, but that's at the cost of paying the tier 3 pricetag and in any event is a secondary role for a sniper compared to actually dealing damage. Even morso due to ammo requirements and the poor cap production of the Rokh in the first place the apoc is far more sustainable in prolonged engagements.
|
Pattern Clarc
Quam Singulari
The Church.
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 18:40:00 -
[37]
Agreed, and as this is boost patch after all....
|
Buyerr
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 19:38:00 -
[38]
totally agree, there shouldn't be any lock cap and if so, it should be higher then the max possible range you can get on ANY ship...
the same goes for the "warp to X", X should be at least the max anyone can lock and shoot, and more i think.
setting game mechanic's to hinder your play like this is setting a specific tactic and removing the rest.
i liked it a lot better back when there was more then the "storm and shoot" tactic, when you didn't need 1000dps+ to take out a bs in a decent time scale, and sniping could be used to take out more then just frigs...
but nop i guess the devs plays gallente and minmatar close range...
sigh...
I declare war on stupidity |
Jamie Hara
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 19:45:00 -
[39]
You guys seem to be forgetting about the tank.
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |