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Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.02.05 06:31:00 - [61] Edited by: Seeing EyeDog on 05/02/2008 06:55:10 Originally by: BoboTheClown is no one buying gtc's anymore ive been tying to offload like 30 all day 30 GTCs?!?!?!!? I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you... It's Right Here _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Fofalus III ELEMENTS	Posted - 2008.02.05 06:52:00 - [62] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog 30 GTCs?!?!?!!? I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you... It's Right Here Even goons are winning at that. Fofofofo
Asmosis	Posted - 2008.02.05 07:45:00 - [63] If you could get 1 billion Isk for an hours real work, would you do it? Depends how much you like Isk grinding ingame really. I probably would, but then i enjoy ratting/missioning. I also have the time to do those for a reasonable amount of time which some people dont (see first statement).
Maj Disaster	Posted - 2008.02.05 10:48:00 - [64] As the op has already stated, the isk is to be used to buy BPO's. This is the big problem with GTC, the people selling valuable items would be unable to demand such a high price for them if they did not know that someone who is wealthy in the real world will pay the price with isk purchased with RL cash regardless of its price. This means that to obtain the same item people who have regular or low incomes and cannot afford to spend RL cash on isk have to grind 10 times as much to raise the isk even though they may have the same (or maybe even less) available "play time" as the op. This is why many people are against GTC, it directly impacts the quality of thier game time !!
BoboTheClown	Posted - 2008.02.05 13:27:00 - [65] Following the recent comments by you guys i lowered my usual price's and managed to sell them all.
RedClaws Amarr Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.02.05 14:03:00 - [66] Edited by: RedClaws on 05/02/2008 14:06:05 Have you managed to get your sh*t straight as well and quit spending 300+Ç on pixels? Jezus dude...theres GTC selling and theres GTC selling okay... quit messing up the game! Edit: Linkage: 300Ç nah lets make that around 500Ç. I bet you're not married right?
Mordred Wolf Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.02.05 14:42:00 - [67] I've never bought a GTC because I am constantly broke but I understand the importance of them for the game. Without having a mechanism for bleeding money out of the game inflation would run rampant and the price of even common goods would balloon out making it difficult for new players. If EVE gets trapped in a cycle where only the older players have realistic access to good because of price inflation it would make it harder for new people to replace the older players that tend to burn out. It comes down to how many paying subscribers do you lose via GTC vs how many you would lose by making it extremely difficult for new players to establish themselves. I am sure the numbers heavily favour the current course of action.
Cleric JohnPreston	Posted - 2008.02.05 15:22:00 - [68] Soon this game will turn into " who ever can spend the most RL money will win ". The sooner it dies the better imo.
Zaskarr Amarr Falling Stars Squadron	Posted - 2008.02.05 15:46:00 - [69] OP, you are part of the problem. Selling 30 at once IS good way to crash the market. __________________ How do I shot web?
Ricardo Phallus	Posted - 2008.02.05 15:48:00 - [70] Originally by: Zaskarr OP, you are part of the problem. Selling 30 at once IS good way to crash the market. Heck, even writing a post like this can depress the market, even if the OP didn't actually happen have 30 cards and for some reason wanted to drive the prices down, potentially even just for the lulz as the kids say these days.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.02.05 15:51:00 - [71] Originally by: Lisa Seraph As a broke college kid who would rather play a game than get a real job.... I love it! QFT!!!!!
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.02.05 15:56:00 - [72] Spidey sense is tingling. Meta-Market manipulation? Protip: The dollar's dropping! Quick, put all your money into GOLD.
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2008.02.05 16:25:00 - [73] Originally by: Lindsay Fox I just find all this anti-gtc stuff really weird. - There are a ton of people who have plenty of RL cash but very little time to devote to Eve. Without GTC they would not be playing for long, as they could not be bothered taking two weeks of occasional play to replace a battle ship, or six months to replace a carrier, or whatever. If they couldn't use RL cash to fund the game they would quit. - There are a ton of people who have plenty of time but not much RL cash. Without GTC they would not be playing at all. These two groups of people are pretty much excluded from other MMO's, except for the use of ebay. The fact that CCP has found a scheme that enables these people to still play while ensuring that CCP gets all the real money is, in my mind, just about the most brilliant idea CCP has ever had. I thank them for it. I think all they need to do now is halve the price of GTCs and the ISK sellers would have to go elsewhere, it would no longer be worth it. This may cause the economy to freak out for a while, but it would settle down and be a better game eventually. I am lucky, I have worked hard for the last 20 years, I am self-employed now and have plenty of spare time, so I can afford the time to build up my eve wealth in-game. I know that one hour of RL work for me would buy me a couple of billion ISK, but that would pretty much ruin my enjoyment of the game. But for others it is the only way that they can enjoy them game, so more power to them. Anyway, spending $500 of real money on a hobby that occupies so much of my time would be nothing. I used to race remote-control cars competitively and that cost me around $1000 per month, including hotels and crap. Eve is practically free in comparison. I just can't believe how so many people think their view of the value of money and the value of time, can be the only valid one. And finally, if CCP wasn't selling GTCs then the ebay market would be much worse anyway, it's not like it would stop. /rant Ebay, GTC - zero difference for me, really. In-game rewards acquired thanks to RL cash? Breaks the competitive spirit of the game imo. If there was an EVE without RMT and an EVE with RMT and I would drop out from the second one immediately...
Tallann Amarr Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.02.05 17:20:00 - [74] I agree that it is a hobby and there are many other hobbies that people spend a lot less time doing but a lot more money. The problem is in my mind it breaks the competitive spirit of the game. Chess would lose its luster if the guy in the park you played against could spend an extra 50$ on a set and his queen could make moves your queen couldn't.
Arkios Odymei Incarnation of Evil Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.02.05 17:48:00 - [75] First off: Poor flight school student here, basicaly squeaking buy on funds to pay the rent/utilities and training. Training costs me about $300 for an hour of helicopter flight time... Im pretty broke. (See my second comment below) So @ op... I'll be willing to buy a GTC off you for 150M. Just send me an eve mail and let me know. Secondly: Originally by: Lindsay Fox I just find all this anti-gtc stuff really weird. - There are a ton of people who have plenty of RL cash but very little time to devote to Eve. Without GTC they would not be playing for long, as they could not be bothered taking two weeks of occasional play to replace a battle ship, or six months to replace a carrier, or whatever. If they couldn't use RL cash to fund the game they would quit. - There are a ton of people who have plenty of time but not much RL cash. Without GTC they would not be playing at all. These two groups of people are pretty much excluded from other MMO's, except for the use of ebay. The fact that CCP has found a scheme that enables these people to still play while ensuring that CCP gets all the real money is, in my mind, just about the most brilliant idea CCP has ever had. I thank them for it. I think all they need to do now is halve the price of GTCs and the ISK sellers would have to go elsewhere, it would no longer be worth it. This may cause the economy to freak out for a while, but it would settle down and be a better game eventually. I am lucky, I have worked hard for the last 20 years, I am self-employed now and have plenty of spare time, so I can afford the time to build up my eve wealth in-game. I know that one hour of RL work for me would buy me a couple of billion ISK, but that would pretty much ruin my enjoyment of the game. But for others it is the only way that they can enjoy them game, so more power to them. Anyway, spending $500 of real money on a hobby that occupies so much of my time would be nothing. I used to race remote-control cars competitively and that cost me around $1000 per month, including hotels and crap. Eve is practically free in comparison. I just can't believe how so many people think their view of the value of money and the value of time, can be the only valid one. And finally, if CCP wasn't selling GTCs then the ebay market would be much worse anyway, it's not like it would stop. /rant /signed ------------------------------------------------------------------
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.02.05 17:51:00 - [76] The OP is a great example how good intentions lead to many nasty things. When ppl are ready to spend their RL cash in order to acquire something in game, which they don't deserve to have, 2 problems arise: 1) it drives the prices to insane levels and everyone who can't spend, let's say $500 on the game, can't compete. 2) the competitive spirit of the game is broken. after all, you can grind only a certain amount of ISK. If you are buying ISK with your RL cash, the sky is the limit.
000Hunter000 Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.02.05 17:54:00 - [77] GTC for isk selling is broken!!! CCP please nerf!!! CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Ping Li	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:03:00 - [78] Originally by: Estephania The OP is a great example how good intentions lead to many nasty things. When ppl are ready to spend their RL cash in order to acquire something in game, which they don't deserve to have, 2 problems arise: 1) it drives the prices to insane levels and everyone who can't spend, let's say $500 on the game, can't compete. I'm a casual player and i pay my GTC's with isk because i don't want to spend a monthly $30 (2 accounts) on a game. Even though i need 150 mil each month i still can buy anything i like (e.g. i've got a freighter, a few CNR's, a Carrier), i also do a lot of PvP where i regularly loose ships which need to be replaced and still i can play this game without problems. So i don't agree with any insane prices. Quote: 2) the competitive spirit of the game is broken. after all, you can grind only a certain amount of ISK. If you are buying ISK with your RL cash, the sky is the limit. If that's the main competitive spirit of this game you see i think you are playing the wrong game. Imho the main competitive spirit of this game is in its PVP (being better in fighting/trading or whatever you like)
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:08:00 - [79] Originally by: Estephania The OP is a great example how good intentions lead to many nasty things. When ppl are ready to spend their RL cash in order to acquire something in game, which they don't deserve to have, 2 problems arise: 1) it drives the prices to insane levels and everyone who can't spend, let's say $500 on the game, can't compete. 2) the competitive spirit of the game is broken. after all, you can grind only a certain amount of ISK. If you are buying ISK with your RL cash, the sky is the limit. And both of your so-called issues are rendered null and void by the way GTC-for-ISK works. Sure, the potential ISK supply goes up as prices for GTCs (in ISK) go down, but not much. Even if a vast majority of EVE players would pay ISK for GTCs (and prices would be so low that most people would prefer to do so instead of actually paying to play the game), you would still have a limited "buyable ISK" pool, insignifiant compared to how much ISK a couple of groups of dedicated "ISK RMT" farmers would be able to provide. So, no, prices would never get to "insane levels" in the first place, and the more people buy ISK, the more expensive ISK becomes in real-life cash, the more it ends up hurting those that buy ISK to "be competitive". Also, in case you haven't noticed yet, EVE is not one of those "uberpimp stuff pwns regular stuff"... a gang of T2-fit battleship gang plus supports could and usually do blow faction-pimped capitals out of the sky. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Bin Matar Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:23:00 - [80] Gotta say ive sold gtcs in the past and will again in the future. I generally work a 70/80 hour week and play this game for the PvP. If i had to spend my 2-3 hours a week playtime on ratting etc i wouldnt be here now. People may moan about me having an unfair advantage over those that cant afford it but in truth they have the greatest advange over me "TIME". I used to make most of my isk trading but wouldnt stand a chance now as its can be days between me logging on and the income im getting is so small now. The cost of gtc funded play is relative to what id save. A night out in the UK is gonna hit my wallet for 100-200 pounds depending on what i do,so that 7.50 for a gtc to get me a new BS seems pretty good to me. PPl need to chill and understand that not every one can invest the time into the game they would like to and i for one am greatfull to CCP for giving me the ability to carry on enjoying the game.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:30:00 - [81] Edited by: Akita T on 05/02/2008 18:34:38 To be quite honest, I'd LOVE to see game time becoming a non-destructible in-game item (somewhat akin to bookmarks in P&P)... but able to get sold/bought in contracts, or even the market Call it "pod licence fee" or whatnot Barring that, a single global GTC market tied into the "secure transfer" system (web-based, under "my account"), where you just fill the price you want for your GTC (or price you are willing to pay for a GTC), and the system handles the rest automatically (you can adjust prices later if you want to). P.S. Current rules would still apply, bought=applied. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:47:00 - [82] GTCs do not add ISK into the EVE economy. GTCs do not remove ISK from the EVE economy. Therefore, GTCs do not affect the EVE economy.
Mir Net	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:49:00 - [83] Originally by: Ping Li I'm a casual player and i pay my GTC's with isk because i don't want to spend a monthly $30 (2 accounts) on a game. Quote: Ok. When you signed up to the game, it was on the understanding that a 15$ a month charge was required to keep an active account/subscription. This is NOT a free to play mmo. The 2nd point rather obviously, you don't need to have 2 account/characters, nobody forces the thirty dollars on you other than yourself, there is a 15$ a month charge to play, as a casual player im suprised you feel the need for 2 accounts? Originally by: Ping Li If that's the main competitive spirit of this game you see i think you are playing the wrong game. Imho the main competitive spirit of this game is in its PVP (being better in fighting/trading or whatever you like) Actualy (aside from the fact you failed to realise this isn't a free to play mmo) it's yourself that might be in the wrong game, as you fail totaly to understand the point of pvp/fighting over/trading ect in eve as opposed to most other mmo's It's competition allright, thats what every Commodity and resource within the game is placed for. The better at it you and your group are, the lesser the Opportunity for others, the best (money making) roids/complexes/sites/moons/regions/items be yours as the competition. Thats what the game (eve) is touted as by the developers, and by it's greatest stalwards. ofc who needs to compete for those resources when making money is as easy as paying your subscription fee's. Thats where the spirt is totaly lost, you can and have the same Opportunity to replace your losses at the same rate as your opponent who holds the greater in game resources by way of buying isk. You might as well be playing warcraft if all pvp is to you (or isk buyers) just shouting over braging rights, and not playing it to it's true nature, aka a game where loss, concequences of lack of effectiveness or actions matter to individuals or groups. Thats what Eve online was before they allowed isk buying through timecode sales.
Karlemgne Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:54:00 - [84] You spent $450 on GTCs to sell for isk? No offense, but EVE is not that important. You could have bought yourself a top of the line video card with that money. I'm reminded of the idiomatic expression "fools and their money shall soon be parted." -Karlemgne
Falcon Troy Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:17:00 - [85] Originally by: Alz Shado GTCs do not add ISK into the EVE economy. GTCs do not remove ISK from the EVE economy. Therefore, GTCs do not affect the EVE economy. .
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:21:00 - [86] Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 05/02/2008 20:21:54 Originally by: Bin Matar Gotta say ive sold gtcs in the past and will again in the future. I generally work a 70/80 hour week and play this game for the PvP. If i had to spend my 2-3 hours a week playtime on ratting etc i wouldnt be here now. People may moan about me having an unfair advantage over those that cant afford it but in truth they have the greatest advange over me "TIME". I used to make most of my isk trading but wouldnt stand a chance now as its can be days between me logging on and the income im getting is so small now. The cost of gtc funded play is relative to what id save. A night out in the UK is gonna hit my wallet for 100-200 pounds depending on what i do,so that 7.50 for a gtc to get me a new BS seems pretty good to me. PPl need to chill and understand that not every one can invest the time into the game they would like to and i for one am greatfull to CCP for giving me the ability to carry on enjoying the game. Gee, another example, why EVE fails... Gee, I hope some new Sci-fi based mmorpg comes out, that provides similar game mechanics, but without RMT. I really thought that MMORPGs should involve all this market and self-funding part, but what is the point really? Gee, but what can I do, some people just buy isk and say lol whenever they lose their ships thus they completely ignore the "RPG" part of the game... RMT(ebay or gtcs, no difference for me) ruins the competitive spirit, RMT ruins the game (for me).
Fofalus III ELEMENTS	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:25:00 - [87] Originally by: Falcon Troy Originally by: Alz Shado GTCs do not add ISK into the EVE economy. GTCs do not remove ISK from the EVE economy. Therefore, GTCs do not affect the EVE economy. How about you prove him wrong instead of just saying he is a failure with no content. The fact is thats the same principle eve works on.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:30:00 - [88] GTC trade doesn't create isk but it does make the death penalty substantially softer and that is a mockery of the spirit of eve
Ping Li	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:32:00 - [89] Originally by: Mir Net Ok. When you signed up to the game, it was on the understanding that a 15$ a month charge was required to keep an active account/subscription. This is NOT a free to play mmo. If i had to pay i would also do it, i would probably only play with 1 account but that's not my point. The part i quoted mentioned that isk was worth next to nothing and that only people with a lot of real money are able to buy anything. I merely mentioned myself as proof that even a casual player can earn enough to buy GTC's and still be able to buy anything he likes. Quote: The 2nd point rather obviously, you don't need to have 2 account/characters, nobody forces the thirty dollars on you other than yourself, there is a 15$ a month charge to play, as a casual player im suprised you feel the need for 2 accounts? I've got my main in 0.0 on my first account, and on my second account a trader, a cyno alt and a mission-runner. It's just more fun to be able to play a different style now and then. Quote: Originally by: Ping Li If that's the main competitive spirit of this game you see i think you are playing the wrong game. Imho the main competitive spirit of this game is in its PVP (being better in fighting/trading or whatever you like) Actualy (aside from the fact you failed to realise this isn't a free to play mmo) it's yourself that might be in the wrong game, as you fail totaly to understand the point of pvp/fighting over/trading ect in eve as opposed to most other mmo's ofc who needs to compete for those resources when making money is as easy as paying your subscription fee's. My trader alt's profit is a few hundred mil each week (this is logging in in the morning, set buy/sell orders. Update them in the evening and within a few days you got yourself a hundred mil extra. Even without buying isk you can still afford to buy anything you like. Furthermore i have never seen any MMO where it wasn't possible to buy ingame cash (usually illegal). Atm it's pretty regulated by CCP, if they would disallow GTC trades, those sales would move to Ebay and sites like that resulting in even a bigger abuse. The best part of Eve is that you have to replace your losses and you cannot do that with isk alone. If i loose a ship the biggest problem i have is to get new ships to the place i need them and it is not the lack of isk. Furthermore buying isk will not make you better in PvP. Quote: Thats where the spirt is totaly lost, you can and have the same Opportunity to replace your losses at the same rate as your opponent who holds the greater in game resources by way of buying isk. You might as well be playing warcraft if all pvp is to you (or isk buyers) just shouting over braging rights, and not playing it to it's true nature, aka a game where loss, concequences of lack of effectiveness or actions matter to individuals or groups. Thats what Eve online was before they allowed isk buying through timecode sales. As i said before you can have all the isk you want, if you loose a ship you still need to get a replacement. It also will not buy you any skills. Yes you are right the consequences of lossing a ship are a bit less if you buy isk, but if GTC sales were not allowed the problem would probably be a lot bigger.
Agent Li Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:43:00 - [90] Looks like the GTC for isk thing is self-nerfing... ------------------ Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire.

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