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Rifter...TOO GOOD?

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Alexi Kate	Posted - 2008.02.06 04:16:00 - [31] Edited by: Alexi Kate on 06/02/2008 04:17:21 Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Originally by: Alexi Kate Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Capless weapons that don't need tracking, Passive buffer, higher speed, and the ability to fit a point give the kestrel an amazing platform for frigate vs. frigate combat. Do you think you can really fit 4x rockets, a MWD, and medium shield extender on a kestrel? LOL, hello powergrid. Oh, and goodbye web or scrambler. Oh, goodbye slot for speed or BCS. Rifter is better. MAPCs. Like I said: goodbye slot for speed or BCS. And the extender will also make you give up either a web or scrambler. Rifter is better. Period. EDIT: oh, and don't forget about cap. Unless you want to give up more slots for CPRs and CRs. LOL PVP with no scramble/web/damage/speed/cap.
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium	Posted - 2008.02.06 04:18:00 - [32] Rifter is a higher tier than a kestrel, my point is any frigate with the correct fitting can be an excellent choice. ________ Originally by: Tarminic I believe your mother should have re-rolled her birth control.
Alexi Kate	Posted - 2008.02.06 04:20:00 - [33] Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Rifter is a higher tier than a kestrel, my point is any frigate with the correct fitting can be an excellent choice. Your point is any frigate with the correct fitting can beat a defenseless industrial. Nobody cares. My point is that a rifter is better for everything else, hence the thread.
Dors Venabily	Posted - 2008.02.06 04:22:00 - [34] Originally by: Alexi Kate Originally by: Dors Venabily 1 you post at one hand that rifter is too good but deny they are overpowered then post its the best aka overpowered 2 Rifter is good but not overpowering so the fact they are used most is because of simple fact ppl like to play matar in pvp and they have other great ships so they can fly rifter as well 3 Any assault frig will smack rifter silly if the pilot is worth anything although AFs as a class need a bit of a boost but compared to t1 cruisers or the other t2 frig hulled counterparts. 4 I tend not to call ppl stupid and i don't agree with name calling but you have no clue what are you talking bout and don't try to rebuff his correct although not politely put argument with spelling whining it actually makes you look like you admit you screwed the pooch It's like reading comprehension is lacking in all online forums. Go to school or something. This comment is especially commical, when considering what I actually posted: "you post at one hand that rifter is too good but deny they are overpowered then post its the best aka overpowered" - wtf??? Try again. Sorry you have no clue. Read your OP and tell wtf you saying then
Alexi Kate	Posted - 2008.02.06 04:25:00 - [35] Originally by: Dors Venabily Sorry you have no clue. Read your OP and tell wtf you saying then lol, read much? The rifter is stronger than other frigates, for no good reason at all. All frigates are extremely easy to train for, and have similar prices, so they should all be on equal footing. Having choice is better than not having choice. I PREFER that all frigates are brought up to rifter-level, but if a nerf to rifter is done so that it comes down to the level of other frigates, you won't see me complain.
sohkal	Posted - 2008.02.06 04:39:00 - [36] Originally by: Alexi Kate Originally by: Dors Venabily Sorry you have no clue. Read your OP and tell wtf you saying then lol, read much? The rifter is stronger than other frigates, for no good reason at all. All frigates are extremely easy to train for, and have similar prices, so they should all be on equal footing. Having choice is better than not having choice. I PREFER that all frigates are brought up to rifter-level, but if a nerf to rifter is done so that it comes down to the level of other frigates, you won't see me complain. Quote: IMO, almost any Amaar or Gallente ship look better than any Minmitar ship. And I don't even fly Amaar. Caldari are the ugly ones, though. So you're commenting on ships you don't fly?
Corstaad	Posted - 2008.02.06 04:42:00 - [37] Your trolling or stupid nothing more needed here.
Alexi Kate	Posted - 2008.02.06 05:01:00 - [38] Originally by: sohkal Originally by: Alexi Kate Originally by: Dors Venabily Sorry you have no clue. Read your OP and tell wtf you saying then lol, read much? The rifter is stronger than other frigates, for no good reason at all. All frigates are extremely easy to train for, and have similar prices, so they should all be on equal footing. Having choice is better than not having choice. I PREFER that all frigates are brought up to rifter-level, but if a nerf to rifter is done so that it comes down to the level of other frigates, you won't see me complain. Quote: IMO, almost any Amaar or Gallente ship look better than any Minmitar ship. And I don't even fly Amaar. Caldari are the ugly ones, though. So you're commenting on ships you don't fly? I don't fly REGULARLY, k?
Zanon Xiu The Scope	Posted - 2008.02.06 05:09:00 - [39] ahh the rifter, good ship. but the ship alone does not make it the best ship. its the person piloting that can make it evil, just like many other frigates. you cant just come here and wardec the forums with theroycraft when there are alot of things you need to take into consideration. gang bonus, skills being maxed out implants and the most important, player skill. yes the rifter may be the best for you. But thats how you see it, others will claim otherwise due to whats mentioned above. So stop being a Thorax about it. If your pwning in it good for you, that doesnt mean its the best. there is no best in eve. Well just one thing. A well organized team.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.06 05:44:00 - [40] Originally by: Alexi Kate Originally by: Akkrillo Originally by: Alexi Kate I _DID_. Don't you see the problem? Anyone wanting to seriously pvp in a frigate will train that. Don't you like options instead of forced choices? I do. no , i fail to see a problem here. the rifter looks amazing. who cares if everyone is in one IMO, almost any Amaar or Gallente ship look better than any Minmitar ship. And I don't even fly Amaar. Caldari are the ugly ones, though. Minmatar are hot. Gallente have the REALLY ugnly ships in Eve (with some exceptions, like the Maulus).
Corstaad	Posted - 2008.02.06 05:48:00 - [41] The Hurricane is pure packaged bliss.

CCP Mitnal	Posted - 2008.02.06 06:03:00 - [42] Cleaned Numerous off-topic posts removed. Please post with respect to other forum patrons and do not pyramid quote. Mitnal, Community Representative EVE Online CCP Games Email/Netfang

Rn Bonnet Free Collective The OSS	Posted - 2008.02.06 06:40:00 - [43] PvP rarely occurs in T1 frigates only. Sure the Kestrel may be great at blowing up other T1 frigates, but honestly who cares? The reason the rifter is considered so godlike (among T1 frigates) is that it is one of the few T1 frigates that can put a point something and have a prayer of surviving for long enough for anything to happen (that is it has to go faster than 2500m/s). The ability to use a warp disruptor while going fast for >1minute is what makes the ship so great. Thats because generally the only real role of a T1 frigate in 90% of PvP (eg small gang) engagements is tackling. Why is the warp disruptor so key? For frigates the only real tank can be speed, nothing frigate size can actually even pray to tank a cruiser, bc, or even most BS for long enough for your buddies in larger ships to kill it unless you are going at least 2000m/s. This same speed is also required to hoenstly catch most ships. Now nothing outside of an interceptor can realistically orbit inside 7km and go >2000m/s to run a scrambler (a condor with evasive V and an istab can't get inside about 7,500m consistently for example). So you have to have a warp disruptor to hold something down, not to mention you need the 20km range just so you can have time to catch something, because most stuff is long gone by the time you are with in 7000m. Thus the rifter gets its status, because it can actually (perma) run its tackling gear and go fast.
Jaro Brutus La Isla del Mono	Posted - 2008.02.06 07:59:00 - [44] Edited by: Jaro Brutus on 06/02/2008 07:59:22 Also rifter has a very good slot distribution 4/3/3, other frigates may as well be very good at pvp but have a more limiting slot layout (thinking about the punisher btw, which is nice and good tank, but much less versatile)
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.02.06 08:01:00 - [45] I think I have to agree with the assessment that having three turrets makes the Rifter somewhat better than the split slot "top tier" frigates for Caldari and Gallente. But that said, the Kestrel is the only credible missile lobbing frig so I guess it's probably fair. EVE RELATED CONTENT
Julius Romanus Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.06 08:16:00 - [46] Every ship class has to have a 'best in class', just how life is. Rifter is probably best in class for t1 frigs. For the reason mentioned 2 posts above, combined with the ease of AC fitting. Doesnt mean anything is broken, but yeah the rifter is probably the best pvp frig you're going to find in tech 1.
Ivan Kinsikor Amarr International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.06 10:06:00 - [47] I must be the only person around who still remembers the Bleeder config for the punisher >.< On that note, are you guys honestly arguing about T1 frigates? Jeezus, you all will ***** about anything won't you? Killing is business and business is good.
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.06 10:15:00 - [48] Originally by: Julius Romanus Every ship class has to have a 'best in class', just how life is. Rifter is probably best in class for t1 frigs. This. However, a lot of other T1 frigates come close and surpass it in a number of situations (Punisher/Incursus, Kestrel/Merlin/Tristan also compete well) meaning it's quite balanced as it is. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Droneo Queen Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.02.06 10:48:00 - [49] translate: I just got killed by a rifter, but i am too lazy to think up of something to deal with it, there \for i come to forums get some flame on me to satisfy my twisted mental stat and hope get some other people who is also stupid as me to bump this thread to a 10 page flame fest. answer: you fail
Gypsio III Darkness Inc. Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:00:00 - [50] Quote: PvP rarely occurs in T1 frigates only. Sure the Kestrel may be great at blowing up other T1 frigates, but honestly who cares? The reason the rifter is considered so godlike (among T1 frigates) is that it is one of the few T1 frigates that can put a point something and have a prayer of surviving for long enough for anything to happen (that is it has to go faster than 2500m/s). The ability to use a warp disruptor while going fast for >1minute is what makes the ship so great. Thats because generally the only real role of a T1 frigate in 90% of PvP (eg small gang) engagements is tackling. Pretty much that ^^^. The Kestrel is an excellent ship and is especially powerful against other frigates. However, frigates are really used as tacklers, and for that you need speed.
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:19:00 - [51] Originally by: Gypsio III Pretty much that ^^^. The Kestrel is an excellent ship and is especially powerful against other frigates. However, frigates are really used as tacklers, and for that you need speed. This makes the Vigil the best T1 frig bar none. And if you tell me the Rifter is versatile, you are being silly; to 'tackle' with a frigate the same way you tackle in a interceptor (which is what you're reffering to), you must have a specialised fit. T1 frigs (yes, including the Rifter) don't really reach the required speed to be interceptor-like tacklers. If you need a 'out of webrange tackler', Vigil is best in the T1 world but what you really want is an interceptor. Frigates are good small gang (or solo) pirate ships, where they both tackle (within webrange) and deliver DPS / pick off enemy small ships in hopes of not being shot at too bad. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Gypsio III Darkness Inc. Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:41:00 - [52] I'm telling you that the Rifter is more versatile than the Kestrel - it's faster, more agile, has better cap and still has decent damage. And obviously inties are better at tackling than frigates.
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:47:00 - [53] Originally by: Gypsio III I'm telling you that the Rifter is more versatile than the Kestrel - it's faster, more agile, has better cap and still has decent damage. And obviously inties are better at tackling than frigates. Versatility which requires the ship to refit (as is the case in effective out of webrange tackling) is a moot point really. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Snake Assault	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:08:00 - [54] I don't go anywhere near a Kestrel in my Rifter. Last time I tried I barely managed to disengage leaving me deep in structure. And that pilot didn't even fit a web. I've never had a serious encounter with a Punisher pilot, so I can't comment on them, but I'd expect the outcome to be very close. Personally, I thought of crosstraining to the Punisher to give it a whirl, but haven't gotten around to that yet. I also had a few (younger than me) pilots take a good shot at my Rifter in their Incursus. In those cases I kept the upper hand, but mainly due to having better support skills. This might mean that I'm a poor pilot, but I suspect that the other ships aren't that much worse. The only real advantage I have in my Rifter is speed, all you need is a web to completely counter that. And a web is pretty much standard on most frigate PvP fits, no? As long as I can choose the conditions of the frig v frig fight (range, trans vel, etc), I'm in a superior position, no doubt. Whether I'm flying a Rifter or not.
Brianna Talnor	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:10:00 - [55] Originally by: Alexi Kate Why is the rifter so superior to all other Tech1 frigates, especially for PvP? Honestly, a rifter is even better than most assault frigates. And it's not even a competition when you consider the cost. Rather than saying that the rifter is too good, my real suggestion is to bring other frigates to its level. It would make gameplay more interesting...even early on. I don't see why there is such a huge difference in usefulness between the combat frigates, when they all take virtually no time to train for. Fight my Punisher, and then come back here and talk about your wimpy rifters
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:16:00 - [56] Originally by: Brianna Talnor Fight my Punisher, and then come back here and talk about your wimpy rifters I would, but the OP would say they're overpowered if I win Punishers are downright nasty, but, hey, perfect cap skills, T2 guns with high supports, T2 rockets, heat, preety bloody awesome support skills and all that brings me a edge over other frig pilots most of the time I've had trouble with a neutron blaster punisher once though, brought me down to 5% armour and no more cap to rep anything. With stupid plain T1 blasters (faction ammo though). Since then I'll always check what guns are they actually using and then choose what orbit I want to take Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Summer's End Caldari Intel 7	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:17:00 - [57] Punisher > Rifter It hits harder, tanks better and is sexy. When you can't run, you crawl, and when you can't crawl - when you can't do that...You find someone to carry you.
Xsag Caldari SPECTRE Ops	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:27:00 - [58] Originally by: Alexi Kate Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Post with your main then. BTW Perhaps you should try a rocket kestrel with a medium extender and a mwd. Because a rifter with an AFTERBURNER is better for pvp. uhm im sorry it isnt lol ~n00b of all trades~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~ ~Now with a face!~
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Snake Assault	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:31:00 - [59] Originally by: Xsag Originally by: Alexi Kate Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Post with your main then. BTW Perhaps you should try a rocket kestrel with a medium extender and a mwd. Because a rifter with an AFTERBURNER is better for pvp. uhm im sorry it isnt lol I'd say that is debatable. Depends a lot on the opponent.
Xsag Caldari SPECTRE Ops	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:36:00 - [60] Originally by: Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Originally by: Xsag Originally by: Alexi Kate Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Post with your main then. BTW Perhaps you should try a rocket kestrel with a medium extender and a mwd. Because a rifter with an AFTERBURNER is better for pvp. uhm im sorry it isnt lol I'd say that is debatable. Depends a lot on the opponent. it will always depend on the pilot and his skills but a player with good skills vs another player with good skills, one in a rifter(with AB) the other in a kestrel (with MWD) i think would be a pretty interesting match. ~n00b of all trades~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~ ~Now with a face!~

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