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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Miranda Ceres	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:49:00 - [61] Remove a high slot from the Tristan.... give it a drone bay bonus. Allow it to field 4 light drones. Give the incursus a MWD bonus (like the thorax)
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:55:00 - [62] Originally by: Summer's End Punisher > Rifter It hits harder, tanks better and is sexy. but its a lot slower, and does not have the 3'rd mid. Rifter is better for general tackling because it can fit the 150 II's, rocket launcher, mwd, and 400mm plate on it with a MAPC, as for a punisher, you can fit the 400mm plate and 150 II's, but interceptors will just mwd away when you start beating them.
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.06 13:18:00 - [63] Originally by: Storm Strike Punisher > rifter No its not, atleast not for pvp. The reason is because rifter is one of the fasest frigs with high fire power. Firepower and speed is the ONLY thing that really matter for a frig to be good in pvp (and enough mid slots wich it also has).
adriaans Amarr Advanced Capital Ship Designs Hephaestus Rising	Posted - 2008.02.06 13:22:00 - [64] personally i find that i have no prob with beating ANY t1 frigs with a kestrel.... (now who said caldari can't pvp?) -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr! (Or make Amarr the only race able to deal EM damage from turrets).
Xsag Caldari SPECTRE Ops	Posted - 2008.02.06 13:25:00 - [65] Originally by: adriaans personally i find that i have no prob with beating ANY t1 frigs with a kestrel.... (now who said caldari can't pvp?) QFT! ~n00b of all trades~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~ ~Now with a face!~
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.06 13:32:00 - [66] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong No its not, atleast not for pvp. The reason is because rifter is one of the fasest frigs with high fire power. Firepower and speed is the ONLY thing that really matter for a frig to be good in pvp (and enough mid slots wich it also has). That would make the Incursus the total king of all, given it has the best mix of firepower and speed. Seriously, speed isn't that useful for a T1 frig unless you're pretending to be a interceptor. Can you actually speedtank cruiser/frig guns or drones? No, sorry - unless you're fighting a total noob. Rifter firepower is good, but is not exceptional - there is a number of frigates which are superior damage-wise. It's 'tank' is OK, but not exceptional - again, a number of frigates which can outbuffer+outtank it. Rifter speed is the best out of all T1 combat frigs, but saying it's all that matters is just stupid. Or maybe you PvP in EvE without webs? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Mark Lucius The Vinlanders	Posted - 2008.02.06 13:51:00 - [67] Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Originally by: Storm Strike Punisher > rifter No its not, atleast not for pvp. The reason is because rifter is one of the fasest frigs with high fire power. Firepower and speed is the ONLY thing that really matter for a frig to be good in pvp (and enough mid slots wich it also has). Yes it is. A good Punisher pilot will outlast a Rifter and beat it, unless it runs away, which is what usually happens. For anything other than direct contact between the two, you'd be right with the reasons given. ---
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.06 14:02:00 - [68] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 06/02/2008 14:03:04 Originally by: Mark Lucius Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Originally by: Storm Strike Punisher > rifter No its not, atleast not for pvp. The reason is because rifter is one of the fasest frigs with high fire power. Firepower and speed is the ONLY thing that really matter for a frig to be good in pvp (and enough mid slots wich it also has). Yes it is. A good Punisher pilot will outlast a Rifter and beat it, unless it runs away, which is what usually happens. For anything other than direct contact between the two, you'd be right with the reasons given. Yeah rifter will either win or run. So making someone run is a win? Wow lets not even fit scramblers on our ships then if its enough to make people run. But seriously, rifter is the best frig out there really. Why is this up for debate? Its good. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.06 14:05:00 - [69] Originally by: Mark Lucius Yes it is. A good Punisher pilot will outlast a Rifter and beat it, unless it runs away, which is what usually happens. For anything other than direct contact between the two, you'd be right with the reasons given. Just fit a scram + web then Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.06 14:14:00 - [70] yes making them run is a win. oh noes you missed out on 200,000 isk of loot. now a tech 2 kill you want, but pushing the enemy away is a win as well.
Vengarioth Skullshanks Minmatar SYSTEM-ERR0R Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.02.06 14:39:00 - [71] Rifter is a nice frig no doubt about it. Works well in the basic tackling role however a vigil has the same slot layout and is even faster...so why aren't you complaining about vigils ? Still Rifter is hardly superior to the other t1 frigs... My favorite has to be the Punisher. You can do so much more stuff with it. ( Someone already mentioned bleeder setup) All in all your average rifter wont last much longer than any other t1 frig setup for tackling... so yeah let's nerf rifters cause it's clearly an unbalanced pwnmobil. --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Twilight Mourning	Posted - 2008.02.06 14:53:00 - [72] Originally by: Alexi Kate Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Rifter is a higher tier than a kestrel, my point is any frigate with the correct fitting can be an excellent choice. Your point is any frigate with the correct fitting can beat a defenseless industrial. Nobody cares. My point is that a rifter is better for everything else, hence the thread. Punisher > Rifter. Period. Quit trolling.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:09:00 - [73] Originally by: Twilight Mourning Punisher > Rifter. Period. Quit trolling. Not for pvp. Quit smoking. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Twilight Mourning	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:10:00 - [74] Edited by: Twilight Mourning on 06/02/2008 15:11:02 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Twilight Mourning Punisher > Rifter. Period. Quit trolling. Not for pvp. Quit smoking. Yes for PvP, now start smoking. .o \ / .i Me.
Wahjoo Minmatar Pandemic Influenza Infinite Innovation	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:40:00 - [75] Rifter IS the best frigate out there. Hands down. It's fast, it's got good damage, good versatility, good slot distribution, good cap, it's sexy and real fun to fly. What else could you want? Sure, it may not be the absolute best on any of those categories (except for speed) but it's the combination of having all of them that makes the Rifter a superior frigate. Just recently our corp had a "figate war" competition, and wouldn't you know it, the team that had all rifters repeatedly pwned the other teams. I think that in itself is a freat statement of the superiority of the Rifter. And all the rest of you are just suffering from "Rifter Envy" Rifter = The Little Frigate that Could "We were once so close to heaven; Peter came out and gave us medals, declaring us the nicest of the damned."
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:54:00 - [76] Quote: Why is the rifter so superior to all other Tech1 frigates, especially for PvP? It's competitors are the punisher (which is the other favorite tech 1 frigate) tristan, and merlin. And merlin is gimped with a sucky slot lay out. Quote: Honestly, a rifter is even better than most assault frigates. Assault frigates suck. A t1 caracal is better than a hawk, for example. A kestrel outdamages a hawk. I see no reason to nerf the rifter, though the merlin could certianly use a more intelligent slot layout. And of course, AF's need massive boosts.
Trina Fixer	Posted - 2008.02.06 16:04:00 - [77] The Rifter is good, it's easy to fly well in PvP or PvE. But it is NOT that much better than all the other T1 frigates. In my Minmatar-heavy corp, in the last T1 frigate free-for-all, the last ships standing were an Inquisitor and a Breacher, the Rifters had all already been taken down.
Rn Bonnet Free Collective The OSS	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:41:00 - [78] Edited by: Rn Bonnet on 06/02/2008 17:42:21 Edited by: Rn Bonnet on 06/02/2008 17:41:49 Originally by: Cpt Branko First off, for frig soloing, warp distruptor is fail. It kills your cap far too much, requires cap mods to make it work in combination with MWD in addition to max cap skills and everything, and your speed still isn't that good meaning anything with medium-sized guns which can hit at 16-17km range will fry you. Originally by: Rn Bonnet PvP rarely occurs in T1 frigates only. Sure the Kestrel may be great at blowing up other T1 frigates, but honestly who cares? ... Thats because generally the only real role of a T1 frigate in 90% of PvP (eg small gang) engagements is tackling. Three points for reading comprehension there branko. Also the vigil is good; however, in cap stable or close to format they both go about the same speed and the rifter can take a few more lucky shots so its better (again).
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.06 18:10:00 - [79] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 06/02/2008 18:12:39 Originally by: Rn Bonnet Edited by: Rn Bonnet on 06/02/2008 17:42:21 Edited by: Rn Bonnet on 06/02/2008 17:41:49 Originally by: Cpt Branko First off, for frig soloing, warp distruptor is fail. It kills your cap far too much, requires cap mods to make it work in combination with MWD in addition to max cap skills and everything, and your speed still isn't that good meaning anything with medium-sized guns which can hit at 16-17km range will fry you. Originally by: Rn Bonnet PvP rarely occurs in T1 frigates only. Sure the Kestrel may be great at blowing up other T1 frigates, but honestly who cares? ... Thats because generally the only real role of a T1 frigate in 90% of PvP (eg small gang) engagements is tackling. Three points for reading comprehension there branko. Also the vigil is good; however, in cap stable or close to format they both go about the same speed and the rifter can take a few more lucky shots so its better (again). T1 frig PvP rarely occurs? Rubbish Pure tackling role in small gang PvP in T1 frigates is fail, because unless you are tackling people who have no idea what they're doing, you will be dead before the gang arrives. Had it happen myself - unless you specifically fit for long-range tackling, in which case you still might be dead before the gang arrives (go tackle a 180/220mm AC II Hurricane and watch yourself die in 10 seconds because you are too slow and have no buffer), and you're useless up close because you had to murder your setup to tackle long-range. Vigil is considerably faster and better for pure tackling. You can get a rather cap stable setup (over two minutes with my skills, should be enough) which gets 5608m/s (8060m/s heated). Rifter? A paltry 4719 m/s (6789m/s heated) and a bit more cap (3 minutes). Both are not fast enough really, but the Vigil is considerably better. So, yeah, both the Rifter and the Vigil are good at pretending to be interceptors, but T1 frigates in this role, even with very high skills, are essentially fail. You are arguing the role of T1 frigs is to be tacklers, but I consider that quite BS really. My role in small gangs was always to be a cheap ship picking off small / fragile targets while the bigger guys do their own thing, like attacking anything packing EW of any sort, and picking on T2 frigs who don't notice a silly little Rifter AB-ing around Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Rn Bonnet Free Collective The OSS	Posted - 2008.02.06 18:41:00 - [80] Edited by: Rn Bonnet on 06/02/2008 18:45:05 Funnily enough I did just tackle a Hurricane in a Condor yesterday **ing around (I had 20seconds of cap), and guess what my gang killed them. If your gang can't be on you in less than 30s they blow anyways. I did forget the speed bonus of the vigil, so you are correct there. But you only proved my point, going 5.6km/s or 4.8km/s is fast enough that very, very little can hit you. Thats as fast as a Taranis or Raptor. Quote:** 2008.01.27 00:35 Victim: Asyrdin Harate Alliance: Tenth Legion Corp: Soulbound. Destroyed: Hurricane System: 6-U2M8 Security: 0.0 Damage Taken: 21191 Involved parties: ... Name: Rn Bonnet Security: 0.9 Alliance: The OSS Corp: Relic Defense Initiative Ship: Capsule Weapon: Warp Scrambler I Damage Done: 0 Destroyed items: Barrage M, Qty: 134 Scourge Heavy Missile, Qty: 30 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Energized Thermic Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Medium Armor Repairer II Energized Magnetic Membrane II Scourge Heavy Missile, Qty: 972 (Cargo) Widowmaker Heavy Missile, Qty: 750 (Cargo) Hobgoblin II, Qty: 3 (Drone Bay) Dropped items: Barrage M, Qty: 262 Scan Resolution Scourge Heavy Missile, Qty: 30 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay Prototype I Sensor Booster Warp Disruptor II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Energized Reactive Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Crystalline Carbonide Plates I Barrage M, Qty: 4660 (Cargo) Phased Plasma M, Qty: 429 (Cargo) Hobgoblin II, Qty: 3 (Drone Bay)
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.06 18:53:00 - [81] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 06/02/2008 18:53:36 Originally by: Rn Bonnet Funnily enough I did just tackle a Hurricane in a Condor yesterday **ing around (I had 20seconds of cap), and guess what my gang killed them. If your gang can't be on you in less than 30s they blow anyways. Buy a crow ;) Seriously. You'll do your job more effectively. You are comparing frigates according to which does the interceptor role better, and none do it very well. It is much much easier to hit a frigate (and pop it in 10s flat) in a Hurricane then it is to pop a tackling interceptor. Frigates fitted for speed require 2-3 good hits, and they're much easier to track and hit then inties. Also: bad Hurricane fit, and bad Hurricane pilot as well. It shouldn't have exploded unless that Cerb was nanofit. Originally by:** Rn Bonnet I did forget the speed bonus of the vigil, so you are correct there. But you only proved my point, going 5.6km/s or 4.8km/s is fast enough that very, very little can hit you. Thats as fast as a Taranis or Raptor. Yeah, right, that's enough. Last two noobs who thought 5km/s in inties trying to tackle my Cyclone found that tacking a 1.55km/s Cyclone in inties going 5km/s is a expensive waste of time. They lost their entire gang save for the crow which smartly disengaged. Basically, 6km/s and above puts you at the 'safe zone'. Interceptors reach this speed easy and have a smaller sig radius when doing so. Anyway, you're arguing, what, that Minmatar T1 frigs do a better job pretending to be interceptors? They do. But frigs suck for that job, period. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Haradgrim The Wild Bunch INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:18:00 - [82] The rifter is slightly superior at the most useful role a t1 frigate can fullfill; tackling, and truthfully, it only does it slightly better then the one frig that everyone forgot, the Condor. Don't mistake that for it being better than other t1 frigates. BTW, if you ever want a demonstration as to the effectiveness of a Kestrel, feel free to drop me an eve mail, for t1 frig combat it pwns IMHO. Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:23:00 - [83] Edited by: DubanFP on 06/02/2008 19:23:29 Show me a rifter that can fit 3000+ shields, have an honest 50DPS "not impressive but decent", and still have room for a web/scram. Not to mention a 5% bonus to resistances across the board per frigate level. What ship am I talking about? The merlin. Yes the merlin. P.S. AFs pretty much suck, a ceptor is better in PVP any day. ___________ Desolacer> Who the heck gives YOU the right to ruin it for others buy blowing them up. Zaqar> CCP
Trina Fixer	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:27:00 - [84] Originally by: Wahjoo Just recently our corp had a "figate war" competition, and wouldn't you know it, the team that had all rifters repeatedly pwned the other teams. Interesting ... in our last corp furball, the rifters didn't fair so well. The ones with autocannons blew up before they could engage and the ones with arties didn't take out their adversaries fast enough. The winners were the missile boats, namely Inquisitors and Breachers. Oddly enough, the corp is very Minmatar-projectile-heavy. None-the-less, the Rifter is pretty much a top-notch frigate, it can tackle, DPS, tank or flee with the best of the Tech 1 frigates. You won't hear me say anything bad about it.
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:10:00 - [85] This thread is too funny to let die. I can't even think of anything constructive to post to justify the bump :( Rifter is great, but it's not necessarily the best. Other t1 frigates can tear it up at close range. _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:54:00 - [86] Edited by: Trevor Warps on 06/02/2008 20:54:41 Originally by: Twilight Mourning Punisher > Rifter. Period. Quit trolling. lol If it does not involves a task that requires moving, it might be true... Let me try another : Formula 1 > tank
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.06 21:03:00 - [87] Originally by: Trevor Warps Edited by: Trevor Warps on 06/02/2008 20:54:41 Originally by: Twilight Mourning Punisher > Rifter. Period. Quit trolling. lol If it does not involves a task that requires moving, it might be true... Let me try another : Formula 1 > tank Last i checked.. frigates can't do any reasonable sort of damage outside of web range (small artillary blows). Which would make me think that not even the anti_nano whine brigade couldn't even complain about it :P _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2008.02.06 21:06:00 - [88] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Last i checked.. frigates can't do any reasonable sort of damage outside of web range (small artillary blows). Which would make me think that not even the anti_nano whine brigade couldn't even complain about it :P You dont need nano to have the rifter to go fast. You dont need the rifter to shoot outside 10km. But ! You do need to reach your target before he warps out in order to tackle it, tho.
Rn Bonnet Free Collective The OSS	Posted - 2008.02.06 21:49:00 - [89] I own and use a crow man. First off nano boats are not the only thing that gets tackled, infact they are the rarest thing to tackle. Most of the time a T1 frigate is tackling a BS, a BC, or some tech I cruisers. The tech I frigates sole role in PvP is to give low skill players the ability to tackle. ThatÆs what everyone from Goons, to BoB use them for and they do an acceptable job at it. Destroying other æweakÆ things is a job better left to wellà pretty much anything else. Your cyclone example is completely irrelevant fyi, why where interceptors even close to your optimal in the first place? Why where they running an intie gang and going after a nano ship? Why didnÆt they disengage earlier? Why didnÆt the crow stay and let you run out of cap than solo you?
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.07 00:14:00 - [90] Edited by: Hannobaal on 07/02/2008 00:14:56 Originally by: Rn Bonnet Edited by: Rn Bonnet on 06/02/2008 18:45:05 But you only proved my point, going 5.6km/s or 4.8km/s is fast enough that very, very little can hit you. Thats as fast as a Taranis or Raptor. A half-way reasonably fitted artillery Thrasher would tear a tech 1 frig going at those speeds apart very quickly, and I can think of a dozen other ships that can as well.

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