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Alexi Kate
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Posted - 2008.02.06 02:48:00 -
[1]
Why is the rifter so superior to all other Tech1 frigates, especially for PvP?
Honestly, a rifter is even better than most assault frigates. And it's not even a competition when you consider the cost.
Rather than saying that the rifter is too good, my real suggestion is to bring other frigates to its level. It would make gameplay more interesting...even early on. I don't see why there is such a huge difference in usefulness between the combat frigates, when they all take virtually no time to train for.
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Storm Strike
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Posted - 2008.02.06 02:53:00 -
[2]
Punisher > rifter
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Military Industrial Research
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Posted - 2008.02.06 02:59:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Alexi Kate
Why is the rifter so superior to all other Tech1 frigates, especially for PvP?
It's not superior, but it is the most pupular one. And that is because it's the only heavy frigate that is still pretty fast, and because unlike its Gallente and Caldari counterparts (Tristan and Merlin) it has 3 turret slots.
Quote:
Honestly, a rifter is even better than most assault frigates.
No way in hell it is. Especially if you're talking about a 1 v 1 situation between a Rifter and an assault ship (the Rifter would be lucky if it manages to run away).
Quote:
Rather than saying that the rifter is too good, my real suggestion is to bring other frigates to its level. It would make gameplay more interesting...even early on. I don't see why there is such a huge difference in usefulness between the combat frigates, when they all take virtually no time to train for.
Wait, you just said that you think the Rifter is better than many assault ships. Wouldn't that mean that you think the Rifter is overpowered and the other frigates are fine as they are?
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HotAngel
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:04:00 -
[4]
Looking at the other tier 3 frigates:
Kestrel -> +1 mid, add a bit of grid and cpu
Merlin -> -1 missile, +1 turret, add a bit of grid and take a way a bit of cpu
Tristan -> -1 missile, +1 turret, add a bit of grid and take a way a bit of cpu
Incursus -> +1 low, add a bit of grid and cpu
Punisher -> fine
Inquisitor -> +1 mid, add a bit of grid and cpu
Breacher -> +1 mid, +1 low, add a bit of grid and cpu
Yeah it might make things a little to similar, but I'd rather have similar and useful than different and useless.
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Parfait M
North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:08:00 -
[5]
Nerf t1 frigs tbh, that'll teach 'em.
-------
Drink apple juice; OJ will KILL YOU! |
Heravik
Minmatar
No Quarter. Academy
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:12:00 -
[6]
Let me just start off by saying, your stupid. For starters off uve been playing for 2months and some change so..dont go a crying, now lets approach this logically..well for one thing each races "Best frigate" isnt neccisarly Merlin/Rifter/Punisher/Tristan, admitidly i feel like the kestrel is more powerful than the merlin, the tristan is closely tied to the incursus (Both are amazing) and the punisher is just amazing, theres stories of it wailingo n most ship classes (i havent really heard any of the rifter but by no meens is this a real comparison in ships) But essentially what im saying is, U r stupids lololol thank you. And no i do not claim to be all knowing hell ive been playing for..4 months or so? i dont have years under my belt and i do not deny that.
-Heravik
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[i]*Various Piraty Talk & Lingo*[/i |
Alexi Kate
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Heravik
Let me just start off by saying, your stupid. For starters off uve been playing for 2months and some change so..dont go a crying, now lets approach this logically..well for one thing each races "Best frigate" isnt neccisarly Merlin/Rifter/Punisher/Tristan, admitidly i feel like the kestrel is more powerful than the merlin, the tristan is closely tied to the incursus (Both are amazing) and the punisher is just amazing, theres stories of it wailingo n most ship classes (i havent really heard any of the rifter but by no meens is this a real comparison in ships) But essentially what im saying is, U r stupids lololol thank you. And no i do not claim to be all knowing hell ive been playing for..4 months or so? i dont have years under my belt and i do not deny that.
-Heravik
Wow. The "your stupid" is funny EVERY SINGLE TIME I READ IT. When will you people learn?
I can't understand your post. What are you even saying? Get lost.
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Heravik
Minmatar
No Quarter. Academy
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:29:00 -
[8]
Quote:
Wow. The "your stupid" is funny EVERY SINGLE TIME I READ IT. When will you people learn?
I can't understand your post. What are you even saying? Get lost.
Let me rephrase this then, u suck, stop pretending like u understand all game mechanichs, l2p, and honestly the whole "Get lost" eh could use some work.
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[i]*Various Piraty Talk & Lingo*[/i |
Alexi Kate
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:30:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
No way in hell it is. Especially if you're talking about a 1 v 1 situation between a Rifter and an assault ship (the Rifter would be lucky if it manages to run away).
I didn't say 1v1 with an assault ship. For example: a rifter will lose to a hawk...the hawk has a much better tank, and will never miss due to missiles (but note that a rifter's DPS can easily match a T2 hawk's). But I sure as hell would bet on a rifter tackling and taking down plenty of long-range cruisers (or similar) over a hawk, due to rifter's much superior speed.
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Alexi Kate
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Heravik
Quote:
Wow. The "your stupid" is funny EVERY SINGLE TIME I READ IT. When will you people learn?
I can't understand your post. What are you even saying? Get lost.
Let me rephrase this then, u suck, stop pretending like u understand all game mechanichs, l2p, and honestly the whole "Get lost" eh could use some work.
Lol, you're a comedy goldmine. "mechanichs"...lol.
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VJ Maverick
Caldari
R.E.C.O.N.
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:32:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Originally by: Heravik
Let me just start off by saying, your stupid. For starters off uve been playing for 2months and some change so..dont go a crying, now lets approach this logically..well for one thing each races "Best frigate" isnt neccisarly Merlin/Rifter/Punisher/Tristan, admitidly i feel like the kestrel is more powerful than the merlin, the tristan is closely tied to the incursus (Both are amazing) and the punisher is just amazing, theres stories of it wailingo n most ship classes (i havent really heard any of the rifter but by no meens is this a real comparison in ships) But essentially what im saying is, U r stupids lololol thank you. And no i do not claim to be all knowing hell ive been playing for..4 months or so? i dont have years under my belt and i do not deny that.
-Heravik
Wow. The "your stupid" is funny EVERY SINGLE TIME I READ IT. When will you people learn?
I C WAT U DID THERE :)
Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything. |
Admiral Pelleon
Caldari
White Shadow Imperium
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Originally by: Heravik
Quote:
Wow. The "your stupid" is funny EVERY SINGLE TIME I READ IT. When will you people learn?
I can't understand your post. What are you even saying? Get lost.
Let me rephrase this then, u suck, stop pretending like u understand all game mechanichs, l2p, and honestly the whole "Get lost" eh could use some work.
Lol, you're a comedy goldmine. "mechanichs"...lol.
Interestingly enough, this game is played in countries where English is NOT a primary language. Insulting his spelling and grammar does not hide the fact that you clearly have no idea what you are talking about in your original post.
________
Originally by: Tarminic
I believe your mother should have re-rolled her birth control.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Military Industrial Research
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:41:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 06/02/2008 03:40:58
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
No way in hell it is. Especially if you're talking about a 1 v 1 situation between a Rifter and an assault ship (the Rifter would be lucky if it manages to run away).
I didn't say 1v1 with an assault ship. For example: a rifter will lose to a hawk...the hawk has a much better tank, and will never miss due to missiles (but note that a rifter's DPS can easily match a T2 hawk's).
So does the Kestrel.
Quote:
But I sure as hell would bet on a rifter tackling and taking down plenty of long-range cruisers (or similar) over a hawk, due to rifter's much superior speed.
Each ship has its job. And in this case you're comparing a Caldari (the race with the slowest ships) assault ship (a class of ships not intended for high speeds) to a Minmatar (the race with the fastest ship) regular frigate.
Also, if the speed and tackling is the big advantage, then the Vigil is better than the Rifter.
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Alexi Kate
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Originally by: Heravik
Quote:
Wow. The "your stupid" is funny EVERY SINGLE TIME I READ IT. When will you people learn?
I can't understand your post. What are you even saying? Get lost.
Let me rephrase this then, u suck, stop pretending like u understand all game mechanichs, l2p, and honestly the whole "Get lost" eh could use some work.
Lol, you're a comedy goldmine. "mechanichs"...lol.
Interestingly enough, this game is played in countries where English is NOT a primary language. Insulting his spelling and grammar does not hide the fact that you clearly have no idea what you are talking about in your original post.
Saying "your stupid" does not invalidate someone's post either. So accept that his post is worthless.
How do I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about? Are you saying rifter is balanced with all the other frigates? I'm guessing you've never played Eve, or even played with EFT - is this correct?
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Crazy Karl
Infragilis Conventio Corp.
Ethereal Spectrum Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:45:00 -
[15]
rifter is a nice ship, even a 2-3 week old player can have a decent setup on it
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Alexi Kate
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:46:00 -
[16]
"So does the Kestrel."
True, but I think we're changing the subject. The hawk sucks (and assault frigates in general are need of a boost).
"Each ship has its job. And in this case you're comparing a Caldari (the race with the slowest ships) assault ship (a class of ships not intended for high speeds) to a Minmatar (the race with the fastest ship) regular frigate.
Also, if the speed and tackling is the big advantage, then the Vigil is better than the Rifter."
The rifter is all-around the best frigate for pvp. That's my opinion. There are a COUPLE others that come close. Some say even beat it.
But let's admit to this case - that doesn't mean rifter (or those couple others) are balanced with the rest. Why use one of the lesser frigates instead of the good ones? Why not have them balanced? That would be more fun.
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Admiral Pelleon
Caldari
White Shadow Imperium
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:48:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Originally by: Heravik
Quote:
Wow. The "your stupid" is funny EVERY SINGLE TIME I READ IT. When will you people learn?
I can't understand your post. What are you even saying? Get lost.
Let me rephrase this then, u suck, stop pretending like u understand all game mechanichs, l2p, and honestly the whole "Get lost" eh could use some work.
Lol, you're a comedy goldmine. "mechanichs"...lol.
Interestingly enough, this game is played in countries where English is NOT a primary language. Insulting his spelling and grammar does not hide the fact that you clearly have no idea what you are talking about in your original post.
Saying "your stupid" does not invalidate someone's post either. So accept that his post is worthless.
How do I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about? Are you saying rifter is balanced with all the other frigates? I'm guessing you've never played Eve, or even played with EFT - is this correct?
Yes sweetheart, I've never even played eve, I just use these forums for the fun of it.
Perhaps you should try flying a kestrel, or a punisher, or a tristan. Then come back and whine about it.
I somehow doubt the "experience" 2 months in a frigate has given you outweighs the YEARS that the rest of the player base has used these ships with no problems at all. The rifter is fine. The other frigates are fine. Learn to play the game before you whine about it.
________
Originally by: Tarminic
I believe your mother should have re-rolled her birth control.
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Heravik
Minmatar
No Quarter. Academy
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:51:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Honestly, a rifter is even better than most assault frigates. And it's not even a competition when you consider the cost.
..u say the hawk is better but..look up, the jaguars faster and the wolfs harder hitting, and logically yes it would make since that the rifter has naturally more speed being minmatar vs the hawk/harpy with there harder hiting. Granted the rifter is an aamazing tackler, as it should be, cause tahts all it can do.
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[i]*Various Piraty Talk & Lingo*[/i |
Alexi Kate
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:51:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Admiral PelleonYes sweetheart, I've never even played eve, I just use these forums for the fun of it.
Perhaps you should try flying a kestrel, or a punisher, or a tristan. Then come back and whine about it.
I somehow doubt the "experience" 2 months in a frigate has given you outweighs the YEARS that the rest of the player base has used these ships with no problems at all. The rifter is fine. The other frigates are fine. Learn to play the game before you whine about it.[/quote
Lol, clearly the notion of "alts" is not understood by you.
I've flown them all. And I know which ones are good. The rifter is, in my opinion, the best. A couple others might come close, but that's it.
If you took the time to comprehend my original post, I didn't say that the rifter needed to be "fixed." Learn to read before you whine about threads, "sweetheart."
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Akkrillo
Dread Lords
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:53:00 -
[20]
i dont see why people complain about ships being too powerful... every pilot has the potential to fly any ship. you think the rifter it a bit too strong compared to other frigates? speng a few hours training minmatar frigate to lv 3. problem solved.
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Admiral Pelleon
Caldari
White Shadow Imperium
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:54:00 -
[21]
Post with your main then.
BTW Perhaps you should try a rocket kestrel with a medium extender and a mwd.
________
Originally by: Tarminic
I believe your mother should have re-rolled her birth control.
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Alexi Kate
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Akkrillo
i dont see why people complain about ships being too powerful... every pilot has the potential to fly any ship. you think the rifter it a bit too strong compared to other frigates? speng a few hours training minmatar frigate to lv 3. problem solved.
I _DID_. Don't you see the problem? Anyone wanting to seriously pvp in a frigate will train that.
Don't you like options instead of forced choices? I do.
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Alexi Kate
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:56:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Post with your main then.
BTW Perhaps you should try a rocket kestrel with a medium extender and a mwd.
Because a rifter with an AFTERBURNER is better for pvp.
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Dors Venabily
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:56:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Dors Venabily on 06/02/2008 03:58:56
1
you post at one hand that rifter is too good but deny they are overpowered then post its the best aka overpowered
2
Rifter is good but not overpowering so the fact they are used most is because of simple fact ppl like to play matar in pvp and they have other great ships so they can fly rifter as well
3
Any assault frig will smack rifter silly if the pilot is worth anything although AFs as a class need a bit of a boost but compared to t1 cruisers or the other t2 frig hulled counterparts.
4
I tend not to call ppl stupid and i don't agree with name calling but you have no clue what are you talking bout and don't try to rebuff his correct although not politely put argument with spelling whining it actually makes you look like you admit you screwed the pooch
5
EFT is not eve you can kill rifter in other T1 frigates easy enough its tactics and piloting not Stats. 
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VJ Maverick
Caldari
R.E.C.O.N.
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:58:00 -
[25]
Edited by: VJ Maverick on 06/02/2008 03:58:18
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Originally by: Heravik
Quote:
Wow. The "your stupid" is funny EVERY SINGLE TIME I READ IT. When will you people learn?
I can't understand your post. What are you even saying? Get lost.
Let me rephrase this then, u suck, stop pretending like u understand all game mechanichs, l2p, and honestly the whole "Get lost" eh could use some work.
Lol, you're a comedy goldmine. "mechanichs"...lol.
Interestingly enough, this game is played in countries where English is NOT a primary language. Insulting his spelling and grammar does not hide the fact that you clearly have no idea what you are talking about in your original post.
Seeing as how foreigners know more about English grammar, diction, and spelling than most native speakers, I somehow doubt that Heravik is a foreigner. Also, foreigner or not, I think the phrase "your stupid" contains so much poetic irony that it is simply impossible not to laugh at someone who uses it.
Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything. |
Alexi Kate
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:58:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dors Venabily
1
you post at one hand that rifter is too good but deny they are overpowered then post its the best aka overpowered
2
Rifter is good but not overpowering so the fact they are used most is because of simple fact ppl like to play matar in pvp and they have other great ships so they can fly rifter as well
3
Any assault frig will smack rifter silly if the pilot is worth anything although AFs as a class need a bit of a boost but compared to t1 cruisers or the other t2 frig hulled counterparts.
4
I tend not to call ppl stupid and i don't agree with name calling but you have no clue what are you talking bout and don't try to rebuff his correct although not politely put argument with spelling whining it actually makes you look like you admit you screwed the pooch
It's like reading comprehension is lacking in all online forums. Go to school or something.
This comment is especially commical, when considering what I actually posted:
"you post at one hand that rifter is too good but deny they are overpowered then post its the best aka overpowered" - wtf??? Try again.
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Akkrillo
Dread Lords
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Posted - 2008.02.06 03:59:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Alexi Kate
I _DID_. Don't you see the problem? Anyone wanting to seriously pvp in a frigate will train that.
Don't you like options instead of forced choices? I do.
no , i fail to see a problem here. the rifter looks amazing. who cares if everyone is in one
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Admiral Pelleon
Caldari
White Shadow Imperium
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Posted - 2008.02.06 04:00:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Post with your main then.
BTW Perhaps you should try a rocket kestrel with a medium extender and a mwd.
Because a rifter with an AFTERBURNER is better for pvp.
?
Capless weapons that don't need tracking, Passive buffer, higher speed, and the ability to fit a point give the kestrel an amazing platform for frigate vs. frigate combat.
________
Originally by: Tarminic
I believe your mother should have re-rolled her birth control.
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Alexi Kate
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Posted - 2008.02.06 04:02:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Akkrillo
Originally by: Alexi Kate
I _DID_. Don't you see the problem? Anyone wanting to seriously pvp in a frigate will train that.
Don't you like options instead of forced choices? I do.
no , i fail to see a problem here. the rifter looks amazing. who cares if everyone is in one
IMO, almost any Amaar or Gallente ship look better than any Minmitar ship. And I don't even fly Amaar. Caldari are the ugly ones, though.
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Admiral Pelleon
Caldari
White Shadow Imperium
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Posted - 2008.02.06 04:12:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Capless weapons that don't need tracking, Passive buffer, higher speed, and the ability to fit a point give the kestrel an amazing platform for frigate vs. frigate combat.
Do you think you can really fit 4x rockets, a MWD, and medium shield extender on a kestrel?
LOL, hello powergrid.
Oh, and goodbye web or scrambler. Oh, goodbye slot for speed or BCS.
Rifter is better.
MAPCs.
________
Originally by: Tarminic
I believe your mother should have re-rolled her birth control.
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Alexi Kate
|
Posted - 2008.02.06 04:16:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Alexi Kate on 06/02/2008 04:17:21
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Capless weapons that don't need tracking, Passive buffer, higher speed, and the ability to fit a point give the kestrel an amazing platform for frigate vs. frigate combat.
Do you think you can really fit 4x rockets, a MWD, and medium shield extender on a kestrel?
LOL, hello powergrid.
Oh, and goodbye web or scrambler. Oh, goodbye slot for speed or BCS.
Rifter is better.
MAPCs.
Like I said: goodbye slot for speed or BCS. And the extender will also make you give up either a web or scrambler.
Rifter is better. Period.
EDIT: oh, and don't forget about cap. Unless you want to give up more slots for CPRs and CRs. LOL PVP with no scramble/web/damage/speed/cap.
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Admiral Pelleon
Caldari
White Shadow Imperium
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Posted - 2008.02.06 04:18:00 -
[32]
Rifter is a higher tier than a kestrel, my point is any frigate with the correct fitting can be an excellent choice.
________
Originally by: Tarminic
I believe your mother should have re-rolled her birth control.
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Alexi Kate
|
Posted - 2008.02.06 04:20:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Rifter is a higher tier than a kestrel, my point is any frigate with the correct fitting can be an excellent choice.
Your point is any frigate with the correct fitting can beat a defenseless industrial. Nobody cares.
My point is that a rifter is better for everything else, hence the thread.
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Dors Venabily
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Posted - 2008.02.06 04:22:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Originally by: Dors Venabily
1
you post at one hand that rifter is too good but deny they are overpowered then post its the best aka overpowered
2
Rifter is good but not overpowering so the fact they are used most is because of simple fact ppl like to play matar in pvp and they have other great ships so they can fly rifter as well
3
Any assault frig will smack rifter silly if the pilot is worth anything although AFs as a class need a bit of a boost but compared to t1 cruisers or the other t2 frig hulled counterparts.
4
I tend not to call ppl stupid and i don't agree with name calling but you have no clue what are you talking bout and don't try to rebuff his correct although not politely put argument with spelling whining it actually makes you look like you admit you screwed the pooch
It's like reading comprehension is lacking in all online forums. Go to school or something.
This comment is especially commical, when considering what I actually posted:
"you post at one hand that rifter is too good but deny they are overpowered then post its the best aka overpowered" - wtf??? Try again.
Sorry you have no clue. Read your OP and tell wtf you saying then
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Alexi Kate
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Posted - 2008.02.06 04:25:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Dors Venabily
Sorry you have no clue. Read your OP and tell wtf you saying then
lol, read much?
The rifter is stronger than other frigates, for no good reason at all. All frigates are extremely easy to train for, and have similar prices, so they should all be on equal footing. Having choice is better than not having choice.
I PREFER that all frigates are brought up to rifter-level, but if a nerf to rifter is done so that it comes down to the level of other frigates, you won't see me complain.
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sohkal
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Posted - 2008.02.06 04:39:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Originally by: Dors Venabily
Sorry you have no clue. Read your OP and tell wtf you saying then
lol, read much?
The rifter is stronger than other frigates, for no good reason at all. All frigates are extremely easy to train for, and have similar prices, so they should all be on equal footing. Having choice is better than not having choice.
I PREFER that all frigates are brought up to rifter-level, but if a nerf to rifter is done so that it comes down to the level of other frigates, you won't see me complain.
Quote:
IMO, almost any Amaar or Gallente ship look better than any Minmitar ship. And I don't even fly Amaar. Caldari are the ugly ones, though.
So you're commenting on ships you don't fly?
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Corstaad
|
Posted - 2008.02.06 04:42:00 -
[37]
Your trolling or stupid nothing more needed here.
 |
Alexi Kate
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Posted - 2008.02.06 05:01:00 -
[38]
Originally by: sohkal
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Originally by: Dors Venabily
Sorry you have no clue. Read your OP and tell wtf you saying then
lol, read much?
The rifter is stronger than other frigates, for no good reason at all. All frigates are extremely easy to train for, and have similar prices, so they should all be on equal footing. Having choice is better than not having choice.
I PREFER that all frigates are brought up to rifter-level, but if a nerf to rifter is done so that it comes down to the level of other frigates, you won't see me complain.
Quote:
IMO, almost any Amaar or Gallente ship look better than any Minmitar ship. And I don't even fly Amaar. Caldari are the ugly ones, though.
So you're commenting on ships you don't fly?
I don't fly REGULARLY, k?
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Zanon Xiu
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.02.06 05:09:00 -
[39]
ahh the rifter, good ship.
but the ship alone does not make it the best ship. its the person piloting that can make it evil, just like many other frigates.
you cant just come here and wardec the forums with theroycraft when there are alot of things you need to take into consideration.
gang bonus,
skills being maxed out
implants
and the most important, player skill.
yes the rifter may be the best for you. But thats how you see it, others will claim otherwise due to whats mentioned above. So stop being a Thorax about it. If your pwning in it good for you, that doesnt mean its the best.
there is no best in eve. Well just one thing. A well organized team.
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.06 05:44:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Originally by: Akkrillo
Originally by: Alexi Kate
I _DID_. Don't you see the problem? Anyone wanting to seriously pvp in a frigate will train that.
Don't you like options instead of forced choices? I do.
no , i fail to see a problem here. the rifter looks amazing. who cares if everyone is in one
IMO, almost any Amaar or Gallente ship look better than any Minmitar ship. And I don't even fly Amaar. Caldari are the ugly ones, though.
Minmatar are hot. Gallente have the REALLY ugnly ships in Eve (with some exceptions, like the Maulus).
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Corstaad
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Posted - 2008.02.06 05:48:00 -
[41]
The Hurricane is pure packaged bliss.
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CCP Mitnal
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Posted - 2008.02.06 06:03:00 -
[42]
Cleaned
Numerous off-topic posts removed. Please post with respect to other forum patrons and do not pyramid quote.
Mitnal,
Community Representative
EVE Online
CCP Games
Email/Netfang |
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Rn Bonnet
Free Collective
The OSS
|
Posted - 2008.02.06 06:40:00 -
[43]
PvP rarely occurs in T1 frigates only. Sure the Kestrel may be great at blowing up other T1 frigates, but honestly who cares? The reason the rifter is considered so godlike (among T1 frigates) is that it is one of the few T1 frigates that can put a point something and have a prayer of surviving for long enough for anything to happen (that is it has to go faster than 2500m/s). The ability to use a warp disruptor while going fast for >1minute is what makes the ship so great. Thats because generally the only real role of a T1 frigate in 90% of PvP (eg small gang) engagements is tackling.
Why is the warp disruptor so key? For frigates the only real tank can be speed, nothing frigate size can actually even pray to tank a cruiser, bc, or even most BS for long enough for your buddies in larger ships to kill it unless you are going at least 2000m/s. This same speed is also required to hoenstly catch most ships. Now nothing outside of an interceptor can realistically orbit inside 7km and go >2000m/s to run a scrambler (a condor with evasive V and an istab can't get inside about 7,500m consistently for example). So you have to have a warp disruptor to hold something down, not to mention you need the 20km range just so you can have time to catch something, because most stuff is long gone by the time you are with in 7000m. Thus the rifter gets its status, because it can actually (perma) run its tackling gear and go fast.
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Jaro Brutus
La Isla del Mono
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Posted - 2008.02.06 07:59:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Jaro Brutus on 06/02/2008 07:59:22
Also rifter has a very good slot distribution 4/3/3, other frigates may as well be very good at pvp but have a more limiting slot layout (thinking about the punisher btw, which is nice and good tank, but much less versatile)
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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2008.02.06 08:01:00 -
[45]
I think I have to agree with the assessment that having three turrets makes the Rifter somewhat better than the split slot "top tier" frigates for Caldari and Gallente.
But that said, the Kestrel is the only credible missile lobbing frig so I guess it's probably fair.
EVE RELATED CONTENT |
Julius Romanus
Blood Corsair's
Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.02.06 08:16:00 -
[46]
Every ship class has to have a 'best in class', just how life is. Rifter is probably best in class for t1 frigs. For the reason mentioned 2 posts above, combined with the ease of AC fitting. Doesnt mean anything is broken, but yeah the rifter is probably the best pvp frig you're going to find in tech 1.
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Ivan Kinsikor
Amarr
International Multi-Player Consortium
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2008.02.06 10:06:00 -
[47]
I must be the only person around who still remembers the Bleeder config for the punisher >.<
On that note, are you guys honestly arguing about T1 frigates? Jeezus, you all will ***** about anything won't you?
Killing is business and business is good. |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.02.06 10:15:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Julius Romanus
Every ship class has to have a 'best in class', just how life is. Rifter is probably best in class for t1 frigs.
This. However, a lot of other T1 frigates come close and surpass it in a number of situations (Punisher/Incursus, Kestrel/Merlin/Tristan also compete well) meaning it's quite balanced as it is.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Droneo Queen
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.02.06 10:48:00 -
[49]
translate:
I just got killed by a rifter, but i am too lazy to think up of something to deal with it, there \for i come to forums get some flame on me to satisfy my twisted mental stat and hope get some other people who is also stupid as me to bump this thread to a 10 page flame fest.
answer:
you fail
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Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.02.06 11:00:00 -
[50]
Quote:
PvP rarely occurs in T1 frigates only. Sure the Kestrel may be great at blowing up other T1 frigates, but honestly who cares? The reason the rifter is considered so godlike (among T1 frigates) is that it is one of the few T1 frigates that can put a point something and have a prayer of surviving for long enough for anything to happen (that is it has to go faster than 2500m/s). The ability to use a warp disruptor while going fast for >1minute is what makes the ship so great. Thats because generally the only real role of a T1 frigate in 90% of PvP (eg small gang) engagements is tackling.
Pretty much that ^^^.
The Kestrel is an excellent ship and is especially powerful against other frigates. However, frigates are really used as tacklers, and for that you need speed.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.02.06 11:19:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Pretty much that ^^^.
The Kestrel is an excellent ship and is especially powerful against other frigates. However, frigates are really used as tacklers, and for that you need speed.
This makes the Vigil the best T1 frig bar none.
And if you tell me the Rifter is versatile, you are being silly; to 'tackle' with a frigate the same way you tackle in a interceptor (which is what you're reffering to), you must have a specialised fit. T1 frigs (yes, including the Rifter) don't really reach the required speed to be interceptor-like tacklers.
If you need a 'out of webrange tackler', Vigil is best in the T1 world but what you really want is an interceptor.
Frigates are good small gang (or solo) pirate ships, where they both tackle (within webrange) and deliver DPS / pick off enemy small ships in hopes of not being shot at too bad.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
Blood Blind
|
Posted - 2008.02.06 11:41:00 -
[52]
I'm telling you that the Rifter is more versatile than the Kestrel - it's faster, more agile, has better cap and still has decent damage. And obviously inties are better at tackling than frigates.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.02.06 11:47:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Gypsio III
I'm telling you that the Rifter is more versatile than the Kestrel - it's faster, more agile, has better cap and still has decent damage. And obviously inties are better at tackling than frigates.
Versatility which requires the ship to refit (as is the case in effective out of webrange tackling) is a moot point really.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood
Snake Assault
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Posted - 2008.02.06 12:08:00 -
[54]
I don't go anywhere near a Kestrel in my Rifter. Last time I tried I barely managed to disengage leaving me deep in structure. And that pilot didn't even fit a web.
I've never had a serious encounter with a Punisher pilot, so I can't comment on them, but I'd expect the outcome to be very close. Personally, I thought of crosstraining to the Punisher to give it a whirl, but haven't gotten around to that yet.
I also had a few (younger than me) pilots take a good shot at my Rifter in their Incursus. In those cases I kept the upper hand, but mainly due to having better support skills.
This might mean that I'm a poor pilot, but I suspect that the other ships aren't that much worse. The only real advantage I have in my Rifter is speed, all you need is a web to completely counter that. And a web is pretty much standard on most frigate PvP fits, no?
As long as I can choose the conditions of the frig v frig fight (range, trans vel, etc), I'm in a superior position, no doubt. Whether I'm flying a Rifter or not.
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Brianna Talnor
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Posted - 2008.02.06 12:10:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Why is the rifter so superior to all other Tech1 frigates, especially for PvP?
Honestly, a rifter is even better than most assault frigates. And it's not even a competition when you consider the cost.
Rather than saying that the rifter is too good, my real suggestion is to bring other frigates to its level. It would make gameplay more interesting...even early on. I don't see why there is such a huge difference in usefulness between the combat frigates, when they all take virtually no time to train for.
Fight my Punisher, and then come back here and talk about your wimpy rifters
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.02.06 12:16:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Brianna Talnor
Fight my Punisher, and then come back here and talk about your wimpy rifters
I would, but the OP would say they're overpowered if I win
Punishers are downright nasty, but, hey, perfect cap skills, T2 guns with high supports, T2 rockets, heat, preety bloody awesome support skills and all that brings me a edge over other frig pilots most of the time
I've had trouble with a neutron blaster punisher once though, brought me down to 5% armour and no more cap to rep anything. With stupid plain T1 blasters (faction ammo though). Since then I'll always check what guns are they actually using and then choose what orbit I want to take
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Summer's End
Caldari
Intel 7
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Posted - 2008.02.06 12:17:00 -
[57]
Punisher > Rifter
It hits harder, tanks better and is sexy.
When you can't run, you crawl, and when you can't crawl - when you can't do that...You find someone to carry you. |
Xsag
Caldari
SPECTRE Ops
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Posted - 2008.02.06 12:27:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Post with your main then.
BTW Perhaps you should try a rocket kestrel with a medium extender and a mwd.
Because a rifter with an AFTERBURNER is better for pvp.
uhm im sorry it isnt lol
~n00b of all trades~
~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
~Now with a face!~
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Lil'Red Ridin'Hood
Snake Assault
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Posted - 2008.02.06 12:31:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Xsag
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Post with your main then.
BTW Perhaps you should try a rocket kestrel with a medium extender and a mwd.
Because a rifter with an AFTERBURNER is better for pvp.
uhm im sorry it isnt lol
I'd say that is debatable. Depends a lot on the opponent.
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Xsag
Caldari
SPECTRE Ops
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Posted - 2008.02.06 12:36:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Lil'Red Ridin'Hood
Originally by: Xsag
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Post with your main then.
BTW Perhaps you should try a rocket kestrel with a medium extender and a mwd.
Because a rifter with an AFTERBURNER is better for pvp.
uhm im sorry it isnt lol
I'd say that is debatable. Depends a lot on the opponent.
it will always depend on the pilot and his skills but a player with good skills vs another player with good skills, one in a rifter(with AB) the other in a kestrel (with MWD) i think would be a pretty interesting match.
~n00b of all trades~
~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
~Now with a face!~
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Miranda Ceres
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Posted - 2008.02.06 12:49:00 -
[61]
Remove a high slot from the Tristan.... give it a drone bay bonus. Allow it to field 4 light drones.
Give the incursus a MWD bonus (like the thorax)
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Gneeznow
Minmatar
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.06 12:55:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Summer's End
Punisher > Rifter
It hits harder, tanks better and is sexy.
but its a lot slower, and does not have the 3'rd mid. Rifter is better for general tackling because it can fit the 150 II's, rocket launcher, mwd, and 400mm plate on it with a MAPC, as for a punisher, you can fit the 400mm plate and 150 II's, but interceptors will just mwd away when you start beating them.
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.06 13:18:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Storm Strike
Punisher > rifter
No its not, atleast not for pvp.
The reason is because rifter is one of the fasest frigs with high fire power. Firepower and speed is the ONLY thing that really matter for a frig to be good in pvp (and enough mid slots wich it also has).
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adriaans
Amarr
Advanced Capital Ship Designs
Hephaestus Rising
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Posted - 2008.02.06 13:22:00 -
[64]
personally i find that i have no prob with beating ANY t1 frigs with a kestrel....
(now who said caldari can't pvp?)
-sig-
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr! (Or make Amarr the only race able to deal EM damage from turrets).
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Xsag
Caldari
SPECTRE Ops
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Posted - 2008.02.06 13:25:00 -
[65]
Originally by: adriaans
personally i find that i have no prob with beating ANY t1 frigs with a kestrel....
(now who said caldari can't pvp?)
QFT!
~n00b of all trades~
~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
~Now with a face!~
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.02.06 13:32:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
No its not, atleast not for pvp.
The reason is because rifter is one of the fasest frigs with high fire power. Firepower and speed is the ONLY thing that really matter for a frig to be good in pvp (and enough mid slots wich it also has).
That would make the Incursus the total king of all, given it has the best mix of firepower and speed.
Seriously, speed isn't that useful for a T1 frig unless you're pretending to be a interceptor. Can you actually speedtank cruiser/frig guns or drones? No, sorry - unless you're fighting a total noob.
Rifter firepower is good, but is not exceptional - there is a number of frigates which are superior damage-wise. It's 'tank' is OK, but not exceptional - again, a number of frigates which can outbuffer+outtank it. Rifter speed is the best out of all T1 combat frigs, but saying it's all that matters is just stupid.
Or maybe you PvP in EvE without webs?
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Mark Lucius
The Vinlanders
|
Posted - 2008.02.06 13:51:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Storm Strike
Punisher > rifter
No its not, atleast not for pvp.
The reason is because rifter is one of the fasest frigs with high fire power. Firepower and speed is the ONLY thing that really matter for a frig to be good in pvp (and enough mid slots wich it also has).
Yes it is. A good Punisher pilot will outlast a Rifter and beat it, unless it runs away, which is what usually happens. For anything other than direct contact between the two, you'd be right with the reasons given.
---
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Dark-Rising
The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.06 14:02:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 06/02/2008 14:03:04
Originally by: Mark Lucius
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Storm Strike
Punisher > rifter
No its not, atleast not for pvp.
The reason is because rifter is one of the fasest frigs with high fire power. Firepower and speed is the ONLY thing that really matter for a frig to be good in pvp (and enough mid slots wich it also has).
Yes it is. A good Punisher pilot will outlast a Rifter and beat it, unless it runs away, which is what usually happens. For anything other than direct contact between the two, you'd be right with the reasons given.
Yeah rifter will either win or run. So making someone run is a win? Wow lets not even fit scramblers on our ships then if its enough to make people run.
But seriously, rifter is the best frig out there really. Why is this up for debate? Its good.
--------------------------------------
The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.02.06 14:05:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Mark Lucius
Yes it is. A good Punisher pilot will outlast a Rifter and beat it, unless it runs away, which is what usually happens. For anything other than direct contact between the two, you'd be right with the reasons given.
Just fit a scram + web then 
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.02.06 14:14:00 -
[70]
yes making them run is a win.
oh noes you missed out on 200,000 isk of loot.
now a tech 2 kill you want, but pushing the enemy away is a win as well.
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Vengarioth Skullshanks
Minmatar
SYSTEM-ERR0R
Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.02.06 14:39:00 -
[71]
Rifter is a nice frig no doubt about it.
Works well in the basic tackling role however a vigil has the same slot layout and is even faster...so why aren't you complaining about vigils ? 
Still Rifter is hardly superior to the other t1 frigs... My favorite has to be the Punisher. You can do so much more stuff with it. ( Someone already mentioned bleeder setup)
All in all your average rifter wont last much longer than any other t1 frig setup for tackling... so yeah let's nerf rifters cause it's clearly an unbalanced pwnmobil.
---
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Twilight Mourning
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Posted - 2008.02.06 14:53:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Alexi Kate
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Rifter is a higher tier than a kestrel, my point is any frigate with the correct fitting can be an excellent choice.
Your point is any frigate with the correct fitting can beat a defenseless industrial. Nobody cares.
My point is that a rifter is better for everything else, hence the thread.
Punisher > Rifter. Period. Quit trolling.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Dark-Rising
The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.06 15:09:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Twilight Mourning
Punisher > Rifter. Period. Quit trolling.
Not for pvp. Quit smoking.
--------------------------------------
The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation |
Twilight Mourning
|
Posted - 2008.02.06 15:10:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Twilight Mourning on 06/02/2008 15:11:02
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Twilight Mourning
Punisher > Rifter. Period. Quit trolling.
Not for pvp. Quit smoking.
Yes for PvP, now start smoking.
.o
\ /
.i
Me.
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Wahjoo
Minmatar
Pandemic Influenza
Infinite Innovation
|
Posted - 2008.02.06 15:40:00 -
[75]
Rifter IS the best frigate out there. Hands down. It's fast, it's got good damage, good versatility, good slot distribution, good cap, it's sexy and real fun to fly. What else could you want?
Sure, it may not be the absolute best on any of those categories (except for speed) but it's the combination of having all of them that makes the Rifter a superior frigate.
Just recently our corp had a "figate war" competition, and wouldn't you know it, the team that had all rifters repeatedly pwned the other teams. I think that in itself is a freat statement of the superiority of the Rifter. And all the rest of you are just suffering from "Rifter Envy"
Rifter = The Little Frigate that Could
"We were once so close to heaven; Peter came out and gave us medals, declaring us the nicest of the damned." |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.02.06 15:54:00 -
[76]
Quote:
Why is the rifter so superior to all other Tech1 frigates, especially for PvP?
It's competitors are the punisher (which is the other favorite tech 1 frigate) tristan, and merlin. And merlin is gimped with a sucky slot lay out.
Quote:
Honestly, a rifter is even better than most assault frigates.
Assault frigates suck. A t1 caracal is better than a hawk, for example. A kestrel outdamages a hawk.
I see no reason to nerf the rifter, though the merlin could certianly use a more intelligent slot layout.
And of course, AF's need massive boosts.
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Trina Fixer
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Posted - 2008.02.06 16:04:00 -
[77]
The Rifter is good, it's easy to fly well in PvP or PvE. But it is NOT that much *better* than all the other T1 frigates. In my Minmatar-heavy corp, in the last T1 frigate free-for-all, the last ships standing were an Inquisitor and a Breacher, the Rifters had all already been taken down. |
Rn Bonnet
Free Collective
The OSS
|
Posted - 2008.02.06 17:41:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Rn Bonnet on 06/02/2008 17:42:21
Edited by: Rn Bonnet on 06/02/2008 17:41:49
Originally by: Cpt Branko
First off, for frig soloing, warp distruptor is fail. It kills your cap far too much, requires cap mods to make it work in combination with MWD in addition to max cap skills and everything, and your speed still isn't that good meaning anything with medium-sized guns which can hit at 16-17km range will fry you.
Originally by: Rn Bonnet
PvP rarely occurs in T1 frigates only. Sure the Kestrel may be great at blowing up other T1 frigates, but honestly who cares? ... Thats because generally the only real role of a T1 frigate in 90% of PvP (eg small gang) engagements is tackling.
Three points for reading comprehension there branko.
Also the vigil is good; however, in cap stable or close to format they both go about the same speed and the rifter can take a few more lucky shots so its better (again).
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.02.06 18:10:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 06/02/2008 18:12:39
Originally by: Rn Bonnet
Edited by: Rn Bonnet on 06/02/2008 17:42:21
Edited by: Rn Bonnet on 06/02/2008 17:41:49
Originally by: Cpt Branko
First off, for frig soloing, warp distruptor is fail. It kills your cap far too much, requires cap mods to make it work in combination with MWD in addition to max cap skills and everything, and your speed still isn't that good meaning anything with medium-sized guns which can hit at 16-17km range will fry you.
Originally by: Rn Bonnet
PvP rarely occurs in T1 frigates only. Sure the Kestrel may be great at blowing up other T1 frigates, but honestly who cares? ... Thats because generally the only real role of a T1 frigate in 90% of PvP (eg small gang) engagements is tackling.
Three points for reading comprehension there branko.
Also the vigil is good; however, in cap stable or close to format they both go about the same speed and the rifter can take a few more lucky shots so its better (again).
T1 frig PvP rarely occurs? Rubbish
Pure tackling role in small gang PvP in T1 frigates is fail, because unless you are tackling people who have no idea what they're doing, you will be dead before the gang arrives. Had it happen myself - unless you specifically fit for long-range tackling, in which case you still might be dead before the gang arrives (go tackle a 180/220mm AC II Hurricane and watch yourself die in 10 seconds because you are too slow and have no buffer), and you're useless up close because you had to murder your setup to tackle long-range.
Vigil is considerably faster and better for pure tackling. You can get a rather cap stable setup (over two minutes with my skills, should be enough) which gets 5608m/s (8060m/s heated).
Rifter? A paltry 4719 m/s (6789m/s heated) and a bit more cap (3 minutes).
Both are not fast enough really, but the Vigil is considerably better.
So, yeah, both the Rifter and the Vigil are good at pretending to be interceptors, but T1 frigates in this role, even with very high skills, are essentially fail.
You are arguing the role of T1 frigs is to be tacklers, but I consider that quite BS really.
My role in small gangs was always to be a cheap ship picking off small / fragile targets while the bigger guys do their own thing, like attacking anything packing EW of any sort, and picking on T2 frigs who don't notice a silly little Rifter AB-ing around
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Rn Bonnet
Free Collective
The OSS
|
Posted - 2008.02.06 18:41:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Rn Bonnet on 06/02/2008 18:45:05
Funnily enough I did just tackle a Hurricane in a Condor yesterday ****ing around (I had 20seconds of cap), and guess what my gang killed them. If your gang can't be on you in less than 30s they blow anyways.
I did forget the speed bonus of the vigil, so you are correct there. But you only proved my point, going 5.6km/s or 4.8km/s is fast enough that very, very little can hit you. Thats as fast as a Taranis or Raptor.
Quote:
2008.01.27 00:35
Victim: Asyrdin Harate
Alliance: Tenth Legion
Corp: Soulbound.
Destroyed: Hurricane
System: 6-U2M8
Security: 0.0
Damage Taken: 21191
Involved parties:
...
Name: Rn Bonnet
Security: 0.9
Alliance: The OSS
Corp: Relic Defense Initiative
Ship: Capsule
Weapon: Warp Scrambler I
Damage Done: 0
Destroyed items:
Barrage M, Qty: 134
Scourge Heavy Missile, Qty: 30
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Energized Thermic Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Magnetic Membrane II
Scourge Heavy Missile, Qty: 972 (Cargo)
Widowmaker Heavy Missile, Qty: 750 (Cargo)
Hobgoblin II, Qty: 3 (Drone Bay)
Dropped items:
Barrage M, Qty: 262
Scan Resolution
Scourge Heavy Missile, Qty: 30
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay
Prototype I Sensor Booster
Warp Disruptor II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Energized Reactive Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Crystalline Carbonide Plates I
Barrage M, Qty: 4660 (Cargo)
Phased Plasma M, Qty: 429 (Cargo)
Hobgoblin II, Qty: 3 (Drone Bay)
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.02.06 18:53:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 06/02/2008 18:53:36
Originally by: Rn Bonnet
Funnily enough I did just tackle a Hurricane in a Condor yesterday ****ing around (I had 20seconds of cap), and guess what my gang killed them. If your gang can't be on you in less than 30s they blow anyways.
Buy a crow ;)
Seriously. You'll do your job more effectively. You are comparing frigates according to which does the interceptor role better, and none do it very well. It is much much easier to hit a frigate (and pop it in 10s flat) in a Hurricane then it is to pop a tackling interceptor. Frigates fitted for speed require 2-3 good hits, and they're much easier to track and hit then inties.
Also: bad Hurricane fit, and bad Hurricane pilot as well. It shouldn't have exploded unless that Cerb was nanofit.
Originally by: Rn Bonnet
I did forget the speed bonus of the vigil, so you are correct there. But you only proved my point, going 5.6km/s or 4.8km/s is fast enough that very, very little can hit you. Thats as fast as a Taranis or Raptor.
Yeah, right, that's enough. Last two noobs who thought 5km/s in inties trying to tackle my Cyclone found that tacking a 1.55km/s Cyclone in inties going 5km/s is a expensive waste of time. They lost their entire gang save for the crow which smartly disengaged.
Basically, 6km/s and above puts you at the 'safe zone'. Interceptors reach this speed easy and have a smaller sig radius when doing so.
Anyway, you're arguing, what, that Minmatar T1 frigs do a better job pretending to be interceptors? They do. But frigs suck for that job, period.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Haradgrim
The Wild Bunch
INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.02.06 19:18:00 -
[82]
The rifter is slightly superior at the most useful role a t1 frigate can fullfill; tackling, and truthfully, it only does it slightly better then the one frig that everyone forgot, the Condor. Don't mistake that for it being better than other t1 frigates. BTW, if you ever want a demonstration as to the effectiveness of a Kestrel, feel free to drop me an eve mail, for t1 frig combat it pwns IMHO. 
Originally by: CCP Oveur
...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
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DubanFP
Caldari
Four Rings
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.06 19:23:00 -
[83]
Edited by: DubanFP on 06/02/2008 19:23:29
Show me a rifter that can fit 3000+ shields, have an honest 50DPS "not impressive but decent", and still have room for a web/scram. Not to mention a 5% bonus to resistances across the board per frigate level.
What ship am I talking about? The merlin. Yes the merlin.
P.S. AFs pretty much suck, a ceptor is better in PVP any day.
___________
Desolacer> Who the heck gives YOU the right to ruin it for others buy blowing them up.
Zaqar> CCP |
Trina Fixer
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Posted - 2008.02.06 19:27:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Wahjoo
Just recently our corp had a "figate war" competition, and wouldn't you know it, the team that had all rifters repeatedly pwned the other teams.
Interesting ... in our last corp furball, the rifters didn't fair so well. The ones with autocannons blew up before they could engage and the ones with arties didn't take out their adversaries fast enough.
The winners were the missile boats, namely Inquisitors and Breachers.
Oddly enough, the corp is very Minmatar-projectile-heavy.
None-the-less, the Rifter is pretty much a top-notch frigate, it can tackle, DPS, tank or flee with the best of the Tech 1 frigates. You won't hear me say anything bad about it. |
Dromidas Shadowmoon
Minmatar
54th Knights Templar
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2008.02.06 20:10:00 -
[85]
This thread is too funny to let die.
I can't even think of anything constructive to post to justify the bump :(
Rifter is great, but it's not necessarily the best. Other t1 frigates can tear it up at close range.
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Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it. |
Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2008.02.06 20:54:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Trevor Warps on 06/02/2008 20:54:41
Originally by: Twilight Mourning
Punisher > Rifter. Period. Quit trolling.
lol
If it does not involves a task that requires moving, it might be true...
Let me try another : Formula 1 > tank
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Dromidas Shadowmoon
Minmatar
54th Knights Templar
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2008.02.06 21:03:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Edited by: Trevor Warps on 06/02/2008 20:54:41
Originally by: Twilight Mourning
Punisher > Rifter. Period. Quit trolling.
lol
If it does not involves a task that requires moving, it might be true...
Let me try another : Formula 1 > tank
Last i checked.. frigates can't do any reasonable sort of damage outside of web range (small artillary blows).
Which would make me think that not even the anti_nano whine brigade couldn't even complain about it :P
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Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it. |
Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2008.02.06 21:06:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon
Last i checked.. frigates can't do any reasonable sort of damage outside of web range (small artillary blows).
Which would make me think that not even the anti_nano whine brigade couldn't even complain about it :P
You dont need nano to have the rifter to go fast. You dont need the rifter to shoot outside 10km.
But ! You do need to reach your target before he warps out in order to tackle it, tho.
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Rn Bonnet
Free Collective
The OSS
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Posted - 2008.02.06 21:49:00 -
[89]
I own and use a crow man. First off nano boats are not the only thing that gets tackled, infact they are the rarest thing to tackle. Most of the time a T1 frigate is tackling a BS, a BC, or some tech I cruisers. The tech I frigates sole role in PvP is to give low skill players the ability to tackle. ThatĘs what everyone from Goons, to BoB use them for and they do an acceptable job at it. Destroying other ęweakĘ things is a job better left to wellą pretty much anything else.
Your cyclone example is completely irrelevant fyi, why where interceptors even close to your optimal in the first place? Why where they running an intie gang and going after a nano ship? Why didnĘt they disengage earlier? Why didnĘt the crow stay and let you run out of cap than solo you?
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.07 00:14:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Hannobaal on 07/02/2008 00:14:56
Originally by: Rn Bonnet
Edited by: Rn Bonnet on 06/02/2008 18:45:05
But you only proved my point, going 5.6km/s or 4.8km/s is fast enough that very, very little can hit you. Thats as fast as a Taranis or Raptor.
A half-way reasonably fitted artillery Thrasher would tear a tech 1 frig going at those speeds apart very quickly, and I can think of a dozen other ships that can as well.
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Clinically
Gallente
Cold-Fury
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.07 00:25:00 -
[91]
Arguing about T1 frigates 
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.07 00:28:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Clinically
Arguing about T1 frigates
What about it? They are comonly flown ships. Even by many high-sp players.
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PirceHat
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Posted - 2008.02.07 01:16:00 -
[93]
Edited by: PirceHat on 07/02/2008 01:16:29
I agree, hence the very little. Yes a cruiser fit for frigate work or a destroyer will eat you; but destroyers are few and far between and cruisers fit anti frigate are not all that common.
Err.. I am rn bonnet wrong profile :p
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Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.02.07 01:31:00 -
[94]
1-2 Overpowered T1 Friggy Punch.
Rifter to put down the point and Punisher to hit with the web.
Nerf them both.
Originally by: Nice Guy
This means that the writer epicaly fails at english.
Irony. So delicious. |
Gort
Storm Guard Elite
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Posted - 2008.02.07 21:09:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Wahjoo
[snip]
Just recently our corp had a "figate war" competition, and wouldn't you know it, the team that had all rifters repeatedly pwned the other teams. I think that in itself is a freat statement of the superiority of the Rifter. And all the rest of you are just suffering from "Rifter Envy"
Rifter = The Little Frigate that Could
The winner of our frigate tourny was in a Tristan, and he beat a number of Rifters....
There are lots of good frigates. The Rifter is one.
Regards,
G
--
When in doubt, empty the magazine. |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.02.07 21:45:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 07/02/2008 21:46:40
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 07/02/2008 21:45:56
Originally by: Rn Bonnet
Most of the time a T1 frigate is tackling a BS, a BC, or some tech I cruisers. The tech I frigates sole role in PvP is to give low skill players the ability to tackle. ThatĘs what everyone from Goons, to BoB use them for and they do an acceptable job at it.
Yeah, in 0.0 alliances which need disposable tackle. Many lower-SP (and higher-SP) players in low-sec use them for general piracy in small groups or solo. Sole role in 0.0 is not sole role in general PvP, you see.
Originally by: Rn Bonnet
Your cyclone example is completely irrelevant fyi, why where interceptors even close to your optimal in the first place?
Duh, erm, optimal, yeah. Do I need to link Barrage M to you?
Originally by: Rn Bonnet
Why where they running an intie gang and going after a nano ship? Why didnĘt they disengage earlier?
1.55km/s is hardly 'nanoship'. One tried, tried to turn in the opposite direction which is, I admit, a stupid move, but, hey, something has to give you the nice T2 loot and salvage ;)
Originally by: Rn Bonnet
Why didnĘt the crow stay and let you run out of cap than solo you?
Because when you get to half armour in 15-20 seconds, you don't stay for the remaining two minutes? And if you suggest going further out so I shoot in deep falloff, I'll miss more due to range and hit more due to better tracking, due to the way radial velocity works. Anyway, we're derailing. Point is, you need speed, speed and more speed to tackle safely, and the only T1 frig which comes close is the Vigil.
Originally by: PirceHat
I agree, hence the very little. Yes a cruiser fit for frigate work or a destroyer will eat you;
Er, I think you were looking for the expression 'a cruiser fit semi-decently will eat you' ;)
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Kessiaan
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Posted - 2008.02.08 01:49:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Kessiaan on 08/02/2008 01:51:43
From my own experience...
Imicus outranges it by miles and miles. The Imicus has the longest effective range of any frigate due to its drone control range bonus, it even outranges most cruisers. You'll need a sensor booster to get the full range benefit of course, but even if you don't want to fight at 50 kms (because they'll just run away), keeping just in warp disruptor range and letting 3 T2 hobbies pound away on it they'll barely touch you. I've also had success fighting Rifters in an ablative-tanked Imicus - it doesn't have the slots to fit a bunch of extenders and plates but it can very effectivly fit one of each and if you forego a repper it really doesn't matter.
In a straight-up slugfest a well-fit Comet will beat a Rifter every time. Sure it's a faction frig, but still T1 .
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