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Pilk's Bet with Tyrrax: Megathread Remix

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Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:58:00 - [1] Edited by: Pilk on 06/02/2008 19:59:10 I am left with the task of examining Tyrrax's refusal to pay our wager. I do so here publicly in the hope that I might convince others of the righteousness of my position, and, failing that, that I may acquire a full explanation from Mr. (ahhh, it's nice not to have to roleplay!) Thorrk as to why my wallet continues to be short, in my view, half a billion isk. Now, for those just entering the discussion, I need to bring you up to speed. Almost five months ago, Tyrrax proposed a bet: Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Since I know how rich you Axiom Empire guys are, how about a wager? I'll bet you 2 billion ISK that IAC will still own FAT- a month from now. I wasn't able to respond for nearly half a day, but when I did finally notice the post, I replied with a counter-offer: Originally by: Pilk I'm not quite as rich as you apparently think I am. Still, I'd be happy to do a 500m bet. Post if you agree, along with a specific date so there's no confusion. We pay on our own recognizance. If you don't think my e-honor is important enough to me, I'll arrange assets in escrow. It took Tyrrax less than half an hour to find my post and respond: Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk 500 mil it is, if FAT- belongs to IAC on october 21st you pay, if it doesn't I pay. Now, as we approached the deadline, a series of strange circumstances conspired against a clear-cut (at the time) completion of the bet. The first was that I was without access to Eve for the weekend of the 21st. The second was that we didn't clarify what was meant by "October 21st"--is that 12:01 on October 21st, or 00:01? The two times, because of the way Eve handles sovereignty, are very, very, different; the latter means that if you control sov after DT on October 20th, you cannot lose the bet, which may not be particularly intuitive. The third is that Eve experienced server problems following startup on the 19th, and as a result of these problems, a planned Coalition capital offensive against BoB POS's coming out of reinforced shortly after DT on the 19th was unable to get off the ground. We shall examine each of these issues, albeit slightly out of order for argument's sake. The first contention we will address is that server problems after DT on the 19th negated the bet. Let us suppose, then, that I would offer Tyrrax a one-and-a-half-week extension on the bet. With such an extension, Coalition forces would have ample time to once against reinforce the BoB POS in FAT- and subsequently to destroy them after their reinforced timers completed. Yet even with a one-and-a-half-week extension, BoB would still have held the station at the end of the term of the bet. What about a one-month extension, then? Surely that's a bit absurd and overdone, yet some in the original thread called for it; it's effectively restarting the bet from scratch. Yet even with that timetable, BoB would still have held the station at the end of the bet. In fact, when one looks at the data, I would have had to extend our one-month bet by three months in order for Tyrrax to have won it. Exactly how devastating was that extended DT on the 19th? Surely not enough to be commensurate with an extension to nearly four times the original length of the wager. Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. Tyrrax's bet status: UNPAID.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:58:00 - [2] Edited by: Pilk on 06/02/2008 20:00:22 The second issue to be addressed here is that "October 21st" was poorly defined. This is indubitably true; it led me to post my victory thread, which was then rapidly called into question as being a day early in the eyes of some players. There are two ways to look at the issue of timing: in the first, a declaration of "October 21st" meant the first minute of October 21st, 00:00 GMT. In this case, holding sovereignty of the system on October 20th at 12:01 GMT is sufficient, assuming you've already shot the station to the point where you control it, to guarantee that you will hold the station at 00:00. In the second way to look at the timing, 12:01 GMT on October 21st is the deciding time. I find this approach confusing, at best, but the validity of it is predicated on the concept that actions on October 21st would in fact affect the determination of who controlled the system on October 21st! As neither Tyrrax nor I were intelligent enough to use the word "by" at any time during our establishment of the wager, the original parties' intentions at the time of the bet are lost to us. Still, in the end, the point was largely rendered moot by the fact that BoB controlled sovereignty of the system for the entirety of both October 20th and October 21st. Therefore, I conclude that in order to maintain that I did not fairly win the bet, you must affirm all five of the following statements: The phrase "on October 21st" refers to that period beginning at 12:01 GMT on October 21st, continuing to either 23:59 on the 21st or 12:00 on the 22nd, and in no way incorporates the other 12 hours during which a consultation with any competent calendar would indicate it is already the 21st. Server problems occurring near the completion of the bet negatively affected the possibility of one of the outcomes. It is in no way unreasonable for an Eve entity to rely upon last-minute implementation of a strategy being possible, even given the server's record of availability and stability. No reasonable amount of time after the critical failure of the servers on the 19th would be sufficient to restore the Coalition's momentum to regain control of FAT-6P at that exact moment. This wager was predicated on a flawless, reliable server exhibiting well-documented behavior unaffected by external or internal influence to any significant degree over the course of a one-month period, across a half-dozen contested systems and twenty more used for staging or travel, and incorporating the actions of approximately 10,000 pilots, despite Eve's well-known record of stability given even one of those confounding circumstances alone. I strongly suspect that there are few people in Eve who would maintain all five of those points. Thus, for purposes of this argument, I am declaring the bet won. We shall now examine why Tyrrax has refused so far to pay. Unfortunately, I have limited information as to why this strange circumstance has come to pass. The first piece of information I acquired was this: Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Originally by: King Fury If you hadnt started this dumb thread you'd have been paid by now. yep As far as I know, Tyrrax never again spoke of it until recently, when I brought up his refusal to pay over on the RP forums in response to a wager that he had recently entered into (where, it might be noted, his opponent wisely opted to have both sides hold their isk in escrow to ensure payment): Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk I'd explain why the conclusion of the wager between you and I left you unsatisfied, but I suspect I'd be wasting my time. I will say that I had every intention of honoring our wager until your rather distasteful actions convinced me you were not deserving of that respect. Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. Tyrrax's bet status: UNPAID.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:59:00 - [3] Edited by: Pilk on 06/02/2008 20:03:57 I take great affront to this statement. Indeed, if you read my posts in the victory thread, you'll note that I make a great point of not accusing Tyrrax of not paying; I addressed only concerns as to the validity of my statement of victory (broadly, the second and third circumstances detailed in my first post). I feel that this shows I had the utmost confidence in Tyrrax's honor and was struggling to uphold it on his behalf, as he hadn't posted anywhere on the forums for a week prior to my victory announcement, and had not posted for a week following, leading me to believe he was unable to defend it himself. I had no reason to expect this betrayal of that trust. We are left, therefore, with the first circumstance, and its attendant circumstance of the victory post being made at all, being the apparent cause of Tyrrax's refusal to pay. If the concern is that the victory post was made early, that largely devolves into an argument over the second contentious circumstance; as IÆve amply demonstrated, the ôearlyö post was in fact made in the good faith belief that the bet had already been won. The concern, therefore, must be the mere existence of the post and its gloating tone. The reality, however, is that the original proposal and acceptance of the bet occurred as a result of our respective gloating: Tyrrax that IAC would continue to hold FAT-6P, and mine that GBC would roll over IACÆs resistance as we did in 25S. The purpose of the bet, therefore, can be seen as an attempt to install some backlash for such gloating; in the event that the person asserting the superiority of their side were to be proven to be wrong, there would be a concrete, negative repercussion. By extension, then, the side proven to be right would be vindicated; their gloating would be not just mere gloating but fact. To assert that the side so vindicated could not then continue to broadcast their victory in a triumphant manner would be patently absurd. I thank you for your time reading what I know has been a very long post. I have no doubt IÆll be trolled. I suspect the trolling will most likely take the form of making fun of my loquaciousness, my dedication to syntax, my habit of signing my posts, my allianceÆs level of contributions to the GBC war effort, my allianceÆs past accomplishments or lack thereof, the degree to which I appear to need the isk associated with this bet, or outright gibberish. Allow me to take a moment to get those out of the way: Loquaciousness: tl;dr My response: Then donÆt post at all. My dedication to syntax: Wherefore,à My response: Trust me, I laugh at myself about this far more than you ever will. Post-signing: -dbp My response: à --P AllianceÆs contributions to GBC: How many AXE dreads were involved in the taking of FAT? My response: AXE mostly contributed carriers, but thatÆs irrelevant; the bet was between me and Tyrrax, not AXE and Tyrrax. And I was extensively involved in the takeover of FAT-, both in running gang links with Pilk and running cap ships with my alts. AllianceÆs accomplishments: lolAXE, why donÆt you go lose Impass over it? My response: We were once blue with Goons for one terrible, terrible evening. We once had EoG in our alliance. WeÆve made our mistakes, owned up to them, and moved on. Impass insults are water off a duckÆs back, TBH. Also, see the response above. (related) BoBÆs accomplishments: Why donÆt you lose four regions about it? My response: IÆm not BoB, and this bet was not between BoB and Tyrrax. Need the isk: Dude, youÆre desperate. My response: My EBank balance alone is more than the entirety of this bet. IÆm fighting this fight entirely on principle. Outright gibberish: NO U! My response: k --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. Tyrrax's bet status: UNPAID[/b].
Arthur Miller GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:59:00 - [4] Edited by: Arthur Miller on 06/02/2008 20:00:07 I WANT MY 2 DOLLARS! quote this if youre down. yeah its a sig
HEY LISTEN i swear this is true	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:59:00 - [5] Lesson learned bud never make a bet unless you have a trusted and nuetral player to hold the cash. SIG BELOW: Originally by: Nekumi ASCN alone dwarfed BoB at least 4 to 1. ascn = 5000 bob=1600 without pets/MC 1600x 4= 6400 You see goons do not blob on purpose they are just too stupid to count
Nekumi Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:01:00 - [6] Originally by: HEY LISTEN Lesson learned bud never make a bet unless you have a trusted and nuetral player to hold the cash. They should've used Murina.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:01:00 - [7] what? ------ Tides of Silence
HEY LISTEN i swear this is true	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:03:00 - [8] Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 06/02/2008 20:05:30 Originally by: Nekumi Originally by: HEY LISTEN Lesson learned bud never make a bet unless you have a trusted and nuetral player to hold the cash. They should've used Murina. EEEP sombodys bitter should i have used more lubricant on that other thread cos you seem sore about it. SIG BELOW: Originally by: Nekumi ASCN alone dwarfed BoB at least 4 to 1. ascn = 5000 bob=1600 without pets/MC 1600x 4= 6400 You see goons do not blob on purpose they are just too stupid to count
BeepBeep Imacyno	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:03:00 - [9] Originally by: Arthur Miller I WANT MY 2 DOLLARS!
Omeega UA Industry Red Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:05:00 - [10] ME TOO BE CRYING FOR ATTENTION Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Zap powie Minmatar The Accursed	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:08:00 - [11] he's IAC....what'd you expect oh and tl;dr
The Comatorium Caldari The Ghazi	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:12:00 - [12] I'll remember not to make a 500mils Bet with Tyrrax about IAC holding sovereignty then. thanks for the heads up. ------------------------- Originally by: Ghazi Mining skills just makes your character go noob longer.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:12:00 - [13] i say there my good chap that is an awful lot of words and many posts to describe an event which only pilk cares about!
Jasese The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:12:00 - [14] hahaha, sad ****
Gloomy Gus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:15:00 - [15] James 315's spy alt spotted Originally by: Red Templar System no rubby!
The Anointed Caldari Methods of Madness	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:16:00 - [16] I'd rather see fortress delve posts to be honest. Build a bridge dude.
TroNaaR Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:16:00 - [17] I aint readin all that ^ Someone give me the gisti of it?
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:18:00 - [18] Originally by: TroNaaR I aint readin all that ^ Someone give me the gisti of it? Tyrrax (still) owes me money. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. Tyrrax's bet status: UNPAID.
Taguchi Hiroko Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:18:00 - [19] Yes, I remember- he owes you indeed. Shame that scoundrel won't honor his promise.
Technix Gallente DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:19:00 - [20] Just give it up pilk.What makes you think this will do any good?The first thread was plenty;your sig is plenty. Your just sounding sad and attention seeking.I personaly don't agree on welched bets.So i understand, but if I was in your position I would just drop the multiple post full threads about it. Still hope you get your isk.
DHB FooFighter Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:19:00 - [21] Pilk. I think i speak for everyone. Nobdoy ******* cares. Go cry somewhere else. -------------------------------------------------
The Comatorium Caldari The Ghazi	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:22:00 - [22] Originally by: TroNaaR I aint readin all that ^ Someone give me the gisti of it? Tyrrax and Pilk made a "IAC is da best" bet... Tyrrax started to see that IAC isn't that good and created excuses to extend the bet... BoB made all of tyrrax excuses be worthless... Pilk came by with hand open and this big "I told you!" smile... Tyrrax didn't gave the money with a honor finger... Morale of the story= kids don't play with knives ------------------------- Originally by: Ghazi Mining skills just makes your character go noob longer.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:23:00 - [23] Originally by: Technix Just give it up pilk.What makes you think this will do any good?The first thread was plenty;your sig is plenty. Your just sounding sad and attention seeking.I personaly don't agree on welched bets.So i understand, but if I was in your position I would just drop the multiple post full threads about it. Still hope you get your isk. If this thread doesn't succeed in getting a full explanation from Tyrrax as to why he's refusing to pay, or the isk itself, I certainly won't be posting any more CAOD threads about it. This one was triggered by Tyrrax's impugning of my character in the other thread, and by the fact that IAC has finally, after about four month of continuous BoB control, and three months past the scheduled conclusion of our bet, recently retaken FAT-. Your point is nonetheless well-taken, though. I certainly have no intention of changing my sig until I am paid in full or a valid explanation for not being paid is made by Tyrrax, but that will be the extent of my agitation outside of this thread from here on. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. Tyrrax's bet status: UNPAID.
Sgt Napalm Synergy Fundacion	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:28:00 - [24] He was unable pay due to removing all of the farmers from IAC. It's a tough spot to be in I'm sure.
Terror Rising Death Of Fallen Angels	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:28:00 - [25] For the love of all that is pure Pilk... It's been months, Get over it ... You are turning into a weirdo stalking the gent. Boiled any bunnies recently? You have much better things to be doing right now I am sure .. Cleansing Feyth of Goonies?
Saffronique Epic Hyena Laughs	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:30:00 - [26] Pilk I'm almost tempted to pay you myself.. just to shut you up.
Value Added GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:31:00 - [27] This isn't going to win you Hollismason.
Zorlag Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:42:00 - [28] Axiom Empire: Less relevant than STYX or T E R C I O S
DudeManGuyBro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:44:00 - [29] I think its funny you still care about this
Hrin Minmatar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:44:00 - [30] Reported this thread. Should be moved to Crime and Punishment

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