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Roguehalo	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:30:00 - [61] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Its crap so dont invest, Amarr Citizen 155 maybe you could give some detailed reasoning as how you came to that conclusion. I've kind of got interested in all this so i've red kyrials 2 ipo threads. Both of them very quickly got derailed by forum trolls but nobody really made any meaningful statements as to why he should be a scammer. ok direct question to kyrial here. give me an outline of how you are trading and what skills you have trained and what skill you are training now. If it sounds ok i'll invest 50mill in you
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:34:00 - [62] Originally by: Roguehalo Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Its crap so dont invest, Amarr Citizen 155 maybe you could give some detailed reasoning as how you came to that conclusion. I've kind of got interested in all this so i've red kyrials 2 ipo threads. Both of them very quickly got derailed by forum trolls but nobody really made any meaningful statements as to why he should be a scammer. ok direct question to kyrial here. give me an outline of how you are trading and what skills you have trained and what skill you are training now. If it sounds ok i'll invest 50mill in you I never stated that I thought he was a scammer so please take those words out of my mouth. Second, the reason it is crap is because there are no details, he wont provide security of any kind, and he basically wants something for nothing. If you want to take on the risk then please do. I think it is crap and wont be investing because of his lack of details and information and his unwillingness to provide them. If he had simply left something out that would be different, but instead he thinks it isnt an important part of getting investors and is therefore not providing them. Thanks. Amarr Citizen 155 ---------------------------------------------- Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:35:00 - [63] Originally by: Ricdic Anyway, when Kyrial has resolved the debt I am happy to advise here if he likes to confirm it has been done. It hasn't hit default stage yet so there's no black marks etc against his name. And after all this drama finally we see why I said this was wrong. Until a customer is in default we are not, by ebank policy, to disclose the amounts of anyone's accounts or loans. Ricdic & LaVista have chosen to go off the Ebank reservation. I'm just standing on the other side of that line called "don't go past here" screaming and waving for them to come back over. Well, at least I was doing that. Why bother anymore? To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:36:00 - [64] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas I received no communication whatsoever from EBANK regarding the loan. With evemails not being trackable I can only give you the benefit of the doubt. Every month or so I go through all EBANK loans and track all interest payments etc on outstanding loans and I send friendly reminders to people about their loans. I started this month about 2 weeks ago and swear I sent notice to every loan in progress. If I didn't send you notice on that I apologise. I am a little skeptical as I spent quite some time going over it with a comb but I can still accept responsibility for that. So I apologise if there was a lack in notification but I cannot apologise for bringing it to your attention here. As a first point of contact it should not have occured but as above I was (well am) adamnant that contact had already been made. Anyway, fix up your debt and I am happy to advise people (this does mean paying off the loan in your EBANK account not just putting money there) http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:37:00 - [65] i go to places with lots of people look for items such that: -they are in demand but do not have a sale order -they are in high demand and i can buy from somewhere else to sell for a decent profit -buy orders for low profile easily resold named items practically NULL-risk ok return trading. I tried to get into more active trading but figure i will wait till i have more capital to work with first. i spend very little time doing trading but doing just these 2 can make some very good money for the time spent which is about 15 minutes a day I spent the rest missioning or shooting terrorists with AK's i took from them.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:39:00 - [66] Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 10/02/2008 15:42:14 Originally by: Roguehalo maybe you could give some detailed reasoning as how you came to that conclusion. I've kind of got interested in all this so i've red kyrials 2 ipo threads. Both of them very quickly got derailed by forum trolls but nobody really made any meaningful statements as to why he should be a scammer. ok direct question to kyrial here. give me an outline of how you are trading and what skills you have trained and what skill you are training now. If it sounds ok i'll invest 50mill in you They weren't being trolls, being a troll would be me posting "you're an idiot" and nothing else here. Being a troll is what kyrials did here. His asinine and paranoid comments also turned us off, then there's the fact that most of those calling for people not to invest have been around the block and seen/been hit by quite a few scams along the way. As such we know the signs when we see them. For instance, a new guy with no reputation insisting on 0 security, no audit and refusing to provide a meaningful business plan. EDIT: For the record, no one said he was a scammer, just showing the signs of it and thus people would be wise not to invest. One is an accusation, the other an observation and in that context there is a world of difference. If you really think Kyrial was being reasonable and MD was trolling him I encourage you to invest in his IPO, a lobotomy may also be in order.... 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:41:00 - [67] Edited by: LaVista Vista on 10/02/2008 15:43:45 Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas practically NULL-risk ok return trading. Im still interested in knowing how you can say theres null risk. Trading is by far one of the most dangerous way of making isk.
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:45:00 - [68] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas I received no communication whatsoever from EBANK regarding the loan. With evemails not being trackable I can only give you the benefit of the doubt. Every month or so I go through all EBANK loans and track all interest payments etc on outstanding loans and I send friendly reminders to people about their loans. I started this month about 2 weeks ago and swear I sent notice to every loan in progress. If I didn't send you notice on that I apologise. I am a little skeptical as I spent quite some time going over it with a comb but I can still accept responsibility for that. So I apologise if there was a lack in notification but I cannot apologise for bringing it to your attention here. As a first point of contact it should not have occured but as above I was (well am) adamnant that contact had already been made. Anyway, fix up your debt and I am happy to advise people (this does mean paying off the loan in your EBANK account not just putting money there) i state, with whatever reputation i have, that i "never ever spever dever receive any form of communication, psychic or otherwise, regarding this 1 isk loan from EBANK or any of its numerous representatives, at any stage of time, in any dimension EVER DEVER" seriously 0, nada, null, zilch, zap before you made a post on my thread i never knew the loan existed. and even when you did i didnt believe you and that was quite evident by my responses. so i must ask, who actually approved the loan. does s/he have any form of evidence supporting his communication with me (obviously not because it didnt happen). dont you need at least a written notice from someone regarding a loan. no banks would give out a loan unless they get the borrower to sign about 10 papers then make them jump through hoops then barrelroll on the floor twice. thats what i assumed. but i supposed i actually thought this might happen so i only asked for 1 isk. imagine the trouble i would be in if they had given me 100 billions instead. how would i ever pay that off??
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:46:00 - [69] Originally by: LaVista Vista Im still interested in knowing how you can say theres null risk. Trading is by far one of the most riskfull ways of making isk. You need to be more humble in your expectations to read between the lines... he's doing npc trade runs. More likely looking to do delayed sales to NPC buy orders. Of course, the return is guaranteed if someone is willing to put all that effort into spreading one's sales out. However the time frame, given the potential competition, makes it so that 2.5% per month is the only real guarantee he could give. It makes sense, but to be honest it's not worth the slandering an ipo attempt is going to generate. Especially since he's refusing to disclose information to verify anything. Regardless of what anyone else says, this is a poor risk ipo. It didn't need the Ebank drama to make it so. More correctly, Ebank did not need this thread more than this thread did not need Ebank. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:49:00 - [70] Originally by: LaVista Vista Edited by: LaVista Vista on 10/02/2008 15:43:45 Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas practically NULL-risk ok return trading. Im still interested in knowing how you can say theres null risk. Trading is by far one of the most dangerous way of making isk. Market speculation is dangerous, buylow/sellhigh module trading is not.
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:51:00 - [71] its 2.5% a week. it is non NPC. it is safe because there is no stage where i could lose isk. i would never get suicided because i haul trash most the time (isk/m3)-wise. i wouldnt lose money to market fluctuation because i only trade in relatively stable high demand items. even if an item got funked and went down 100% i would lose at most ~10m-20m. so it is really near-NULL risk.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:52:00 - [72] Originally by: Shar Tegral It makes sense, but to be honest it's not worth the slandering an ipo attempt is going to generate. Especially since he's refusing to disclose information to verify anything. Regardless of what anyone else says, this is a poor risk ipo. It didn't need the Ebank drama to make it so. More correctly, Ebank did not need this thread more than this thread did not need Ebank.[/justify] No one needed this....It's actually quite sad to see Ebank coming to pieces with directors leaving and all over such a pointless IPO and 1 ISK. All good things man, all good things.... 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:52:00 - [73] Edited by: Mr Horizontal on 10/02/2008 15:56:03 Edit: Forgive me, this has already been resolved. This loan has now been satisfied. Sorry for any inconvenience caused.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2008.02.10 16:08:00 - [74] Originally by: Kwint Sommer Originally by: Shar Tegral It makes sense, but to be honest it's not worth the slandering an ipo attempt is going to generate. Especially since he's refusing to disclose information to verify anything. Regardless of what anyone else says, this is a poor risk ipo. It didn't need the Ebank drama to make it so. More correctly, Ebank did not need this thread more than this thread did not need Ebank.[/justify] No one needed this....It's actually quite sad to see Ebank coming to pieces with directors leaving and all over such a pointless IPO and 1 ISK. All good things man, all good things.... This is why we generally keep our discussions private...we can be free to disagree with each other without people being alarmist about it. Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.02.10 16:26:00 - [75] Edited by: Shadarle on 10/02/2008 16:26:58 1. Why do E-Bank people have disputes with each other over internal policy on the MD forum? Both Shar and LV are responsible here and to me this is the biggest problem showing up in this thread. Both made a lot of posts here they shouldn't have and frankly Shar did more harm to E-Bank than anyone else did. He should have followed his own advice and stayed on his side of the line and not gone past it, but he did. 2. LV should never, for any reason, have a speaking role on behalf of E-Bank. He's a nice enough guy but he doesn't know when to bite his tongue or what not to say. I am quite certain he helps out a lot internally, but a public spokesperson he is not as has been proven time and again in threads here. 3. If this loan was not in default then Ricdic was wrong to bring it forward. Unless he plans to bring to the attention of the forum every single time someone has a loan that they haven't 100% payed off. The only problem comes when it defaults, then it is of course completely kosher to bring it to public attention. 4. If Shar actually leaves E-Bank over this then it's pathetic beyond belief. Shar, I love your posts, but lately you've been far more emotional. I suppose I can understand why, based on RL events, and if those events are what has caused such a large change in your personality then it probably is for the best you leave E-Bank. You have seemed to be a different person as of late. Even so, to me it seems like a script out of a movie. You're the star who just can't stay in a relationship. You have to keep pushing away everyone who gets close. It seems like you've been trying your hardest to push and tug at E-Bank until you could find a reason to break up with it. Maybe not consciously, but it has appeared that way for a while now. Perhaps you should take a step back, reduce your responsibilities in E-Bank big time for now, and just chill for some time. See how you feel about things in a few weeks or a month. 5. This IPO is still not worth investing a penny into IMO. I don't think he will scam, I just think the OP has proven he is not someone I'd want to do business with. Maybe in a few months he'll try yet again. I just don't understand why anyone who is 100% certain they are capable of making 2.5%/week needs a pitiful amount like 500 mil isk. Make it yourself. 6. Ray, all I read in your posts is "E-Bank is stealing all my business so I'm going to play this up as much as I can to try to discredit them!" To your credit, Ricdic has seemingly been trying to help you do this... but it's still quite clear what your motivation is. Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.02.10 16:34:00 - [76] I agree 110% with everything Shadarle has just stated in the above 6 point thread. --
Daeva Vios Ares Arms and Modules LLC	Posted - 2008.02.10 17:13:00 - [77] Edited by: Daeva Vios on 10/02/2008 17:13:02 Originally by: Shadarle Edited by: Shadarle on 10/02/2008 16:26:58 stuff I spent the last 67 posts thinking of what I was gonna say, then Shadarle said everything I thought up in better ways than I could have. Damn you, Shadarle.
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.02.10 17:21:00 - [78] Whatever happened to Scenecs speaking for EBANK? It's better then Quafe! Off-topic. Please don't point out semantic errors of the moderators - Mitnal
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2008.02.11 00:40:00 - [79] This ended up being quite an interestin and enlightening read. Also, what Shad just said ^^ Eve Corp Web Design \| Eve Online Addicts
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.02.11 01:26:00 - [80] a sly bump
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.11 01:45:00 - [81] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas a sly bump Oh for the love of God....this thread is so recent that the first locked version is still on the front page. It's barely 24 hours old and if the same bumping rules apply here as in the sell forum then you're not supposed to bump the thread within 24 hours of posting in it, aka. 1 bump per day. You're in violation of both common decency and forums rules by bumping this so soon. I'm not going to wastes a mod's time over it but please cease and desists. 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Deez Onit Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.02.11 04:45:00 - [82] I'm very, very, very bothered with all of you... instead of sweating over 1 isk, you could have worked harder to procure the 3b isk loan I requested... was told I'd hear back in a week, and then never heard anything again.
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.02.11 05:45:00 - [83] Originally by: Shadarle 6. Ray, all I read in your posts is "E-Bank is stealing all my business so I'm going to play this up as much as I can to try to discredit them!" To your credit, Ricdic has seemingly been trying to help you do this... but it's still quite clear what your motivation is. Shadarle, once again you miss the boat. Do I need to point out every time you bring this up that the BMBE loan average has actually increased? Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2008.02.11 11:01:00 - [84] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Shadarle 6. Ray, all I read in your posts is "E-Bank is stealing all my business so I'm going to play this up as much as I can to try to discredit them!" To your credit, Ricdic has seemingly been trying to help you do this... but it's still quite clear what your motivation is. Shadarle, once again you miss the boat. Do I need to point out every time you bring this up that the BMBE loan average has actually increased? No, you don't, but surely you can see the humor the rest of us see when a BMBE representative rails about the proper handling of defaulted loans. As to the rest of this thread--I have strong opinions. I choose not to share them, as nobody (should) care. Most of this thread should never have had a reason to come to exist; make of that what you will. MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.02.11 14:04:00 - [85] Originally by: Motivated Prophet No, you don't, but surely you can see the humor the rest of us see when a BMBE representative rails about the proper handling of defaulted loans. Oh yes, the irony is not lost on me. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2008.02.11 14:28:00 - [86] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Motivated Prophet No, you don't, but surely you can see the humor the rest of us see when a BMBE representative rails about the proper handling of defaulted loans. Oh yes, the irony is not lost on me. Just checking. At the risk of derailing the thread a bit (more), did BMBE ever make a final decision on whether or not to release the name of the scammer who defaulted and defrauded you? MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.02.11 14:45:00 - [87] Originally by: Motivated Prophet At the risk of derailing the thread a bit (more), did BMBE ever make a final decision on whether or not to release the name of the scammer who defaulted and defrauded you? I think it was derailed long before. Enquiring after a final decision suggests it was up for discussion in the first place. It never was. We won't release the names of defaulters, past, present or future. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.11 14:52:00 - [88] Originally by: Ray McCormack We won't release the names of defaulters, past, present or future. What if that defaulter released a public corporation tomorrow at 100b and you were 99% sure it was a scam as a result of your BMBE dealings with the individual? Would you toss it under a rug and let people get scammed out of all their isk? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.02.11 14:57:00 - [89] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Ray McCormack We won't release the names of defaulters, past, present or future. What if that defaulter released a public corporation tomorrow at 100b and you were 99% sure it was a scam as a result of your BMBE dealings with the individual? Would you toss it under a rug and let people get scammed out of all their isk? Do you seriously expect me to answer such a loaded question? Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.11 15:01:00 - [90] Edited by: Ricdic on 11/02/2008 15:05:39 Edited by: Ricdic on 11/02/2008 15:04:02 Originally by: Ray McCormack Do you seriously expect me to answer such a loaded question? Well I think it's pretty valid. Not in this instance obviously as the sums involved are on a small scale. But if it was the BMBE defaulter who stole from BMBE shareholders who then showed up here with an IPO what would you do? It's one of those questions where if you stick to prior morales you screw over your fellow investors. If you don't, well you save your investors. It's a serious question though. Once we get our policies and disclosure documentation up to date I would like to think EBANK will step in and report a defaulter (in fact, we would have a page dedicated to them). But how does BMBE address such a scenario if it occurs? edit: The same question could be applied to Fastlearner. I am not trying to discredit anyone (I have already made a few screwups these last few days already) but it is an important question. I don't want to devote a whole thread to it but I feel this thread has already been derailed to a point where it can't be salvaged (having said that, I am sorry Kyrial as I definetly did begin the derailment and it kinda escalated way further than expected) edit 2: I re-read my post and it definetly had a negative spin on it so I edited it to remove the 'loaded' and unnecessary part. You are free to edit yours accordingly if you like. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!

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