EVE Search - investment plan 500m 2.5% a week

All Channels

Market Discussions

investment plan 500m 2.5% a week

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.02.09 07:14:00 - [1] Edited by: Kyrial Tidolfas on 09/02/2008 07:14:31 Hi all I would like to extend an opportunity to the citizens of EvE the chance to invest with me in my subjectively awesome trading plan. How it works Whenever you make an investment, I will record the date of investment. Until the time your investment is withdrawn, no dividends will be paid. All interest will be paid upon the withdrawal of initial investment. So let's say you invest 100m. 4 weeks later you wanna withdraw you investment, you tell me then I will arrange, within 24 hours, to get the money to you the amount of 100 x 1.025^4 =~ 110.5m. In this way I work more like a bank than a bond or an IPO. Security No security will be provided. No auditing will be provided for a reason i cannot say. Business I trade. There is pratically no risk in a failure per my assessment. I will accept your investment until I have 500m. I will return 2.5% a week. Thank you folks
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.02.09 07:22:00 - [2] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas No security will be provided. No auditing will be provided. ~~for a reason i cannot say.~~ Immaturity not needed nor attractive. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Yoko Kringe	Posted - 2008.02.09 07:23:00 - [3] More wasted space I see..
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.02.09 08:15:00 - [4] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas I trade. There is pratically no risk in a failure per my assessment. Your wrong. Nuff' said.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.09 08:43:00 - [5] REPORT: Quote: He just reposted a locked thread. Look at that to see the original: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=700831 It's an annoying and bad attempt at scamming. Please stop him from posting it over and over again. Congratulations, you've graduated from an abrasive scammer to a spammer, something that CCP actually cares about. Enjoy your brief ban and please consider making your absence from this forum permanent. 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Cushan Anti Sweden Defense Force Galactic Research	Posted - 2008.02.09 08:46:00 - [6] ...is this a joke? Because it's not funny. -- Taggart Transdimensional corporation - \| Capitalism \| Objectivism \| 0.0 \| No taxes \| No mandatory ops \| Join channel TAGGART for more info \|
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.02.09 09:01:00 - [7] Originally by: Kwint Sommer REPORT: Quote: He just reposted a locked thread. Look at that to see the original: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=700831 It's an annoying and bad attempt at scamming. Please stop him from posting it over and over again. Congratulations, you've graduated from an abrasive scammer to a spammer, something that CCP actually cares about. Enjoy your brief ban and please consider making your absence from this forum permanent. Congratulations, you fail at reading. Mitnal actually said that he COULD repost the thing, if he wanted.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.09 09:17:00 - [8] Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 09/02/2008 09:17:31 Originally by: LaVista Vista Congratulations, you fail at reading. Mitnal actually said that he COULD repost the thing, if he wanted. That's not what he said, this is what he said, Originally by: CCP Mitnal If you wish to make a new IPO please do so without the religious references. That does not equal repost the same fricking scam with one line partially changed. Doing that is called spamming, all Mitnal told him to do is lay off the religious references. 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.02.09 09:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Kwint Sommer Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 09/02/2008 09:17:31 Originally by: LaVista Vista Congratulations, you fail at reading. Mitnal actually said that he COULD repost the thing, if he wanted. That's not what he said, this is what he said, Originally by: CCP Mitnal If you wish to make a new IPO please do so without the religious references. That does not equal repost the same fricking scam with one line partially changed. Doing that is called spamming, all Mitnal told him to do is lay off the religious references. and thats exactly what i did. i removed the religious reference. I assure you this is not a scam.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.09 11:20:00 - [10] As though 0 security and his refusal to allow any audit aren't enough of a reason to stay away, I would suggest reading his last attempt at an IPO (well before the one that got locked a few hours ago). Here's a nice excerpt of him railing against the "hivemind" of MD, Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas regulars. they have this elitism among them where they think because they post often on the forums they are somehow better than others noob-MDer's and this smugness is apparent in all their posts. not all regulars are like this but shadarle and lavista vista are. the extreme misfotune is the fact that people seem to listen to these. people seem to be attracted to their self assigned expertise and these "regulars" have unjustified influence on the forum. they use this influence, intentionally or otherwise, to benefit mainly themselves. they do this by attacking and criticising relentlessly new people on the forums. often they band together, unplanned i hope, to attack others on the forum. i suffered this, i made an "inappropriate" post then Ricdic attacked me. then the entirely of MD descended upon me. ricdic had a lot of standing in this forum and even though he did not mean for the consequence to unfold in this manner (i hope), his apparent disapproval of me spread like AIDS to anyone that read his post, they registered immediately me as a bad person. this hivemind disgusts me and i am an enemy to this non-thinking and all those who associate themselves with it. and these people are limited in number. but their consistent and unwelcomed posts in my thread paint them as the major if not only group. this is not me fighting MD or EVE or investors or regulars. i am attacking a limited subset of people and anyone who support or defend them. For more hilarious quotes and attacks on the trusted members of this board, check out the full thread. 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.02.09 12:05:00 - [11] It's okay Kwint you are safe now. No one is going to hurt you.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.09 15:36:00 - [12] I can understand why Kyrial feels the way he does, and I think that in general people in the forum need to broaden the number of people that they can trust. At the moment, a relatively small number of people here seem to hold a near-monopoly in this valuable commodity, and I don't think that this is necessarily a healthy situation. Although Kyrial has no contract history and his corp title indicates that he is in fact someone else's alt, he is at least a member of a 50-man corp founded some time ago. I'm willing to fund all or part of this plan if Kyrias is willing to provide his limited API key to me, so that I can link him to his main; this costs him nothing but at least means that he's putting a meaningful reputation on the line if everything goes pear-shaped. I will not disclose this information anyone else without his consent. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.02.09 16:08:00 - [13] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro At the moment, a relatively small number of people here seem to hold a near-monopoly in this valuable commodity, and I don't think that this is necessarily a healthy situation. That is a very very misguided way of perceiving the current state of affairs. Trustworthy people did not go on a campaign to make everyone else untrustworthy. We simply (yes we - me included) exercised the restraint that demonstrates our own trustworthiness. Is this a healthy situation? No. Would I change it if I could? Yes. Alas, I have not the power to make people decent just by willpower alone. So I do take some offense at your way of stating the current situation. It is not so much I need credit for being one of the very few... it is that people need to realize that there is a far greater sense of accomplishment and fulfillment from being trustworthy than there is in walking off with someone else's belongings. Some call it role play, some call it just a game. To me, if you can do it at any time regardless of venue... you are still slime. In game or out of game. Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro if Kyrias is willing to provide his limited API key to me, so that I can link him to his main; this costs him nothing but at least means that he's putting a meaningful reputation on the line if everything goes pear-shaped. Kyrias chooses to be a "maverick" investment. That is a perfectly acceptable choice. One does not need to follow common convention in the practice of one's online profession or hobby. He is obviously intelligent, as is shown by the content of his posts, however what is most telling, of maturity level, is his ire of his lack of success. Further proof of his immaturity is the need to externalize the cause of that failure. (i.e. blaming some sort of "clique"-ish nature of the MD forums) A maverick investment vehicle requires a person to have something unique. Very well known person, very high security, total transparency, etc., etc.. None of these things are present here with Kyrias or his investment vehicle(s). Thus it is, when objectively viewed, no big surprise that he can't get 2 isk from the community to buy the hole of a donut. Kyrias: Simply put. The only way you are going to get any success is if some one with spare cash tosses it at you. Your investment vehicle is just one notch above cyber panhandling and only just barely. The amount you ask for is minuscule compared many of the failed ipo's or ipo scam's but ... for a newb player with a disposable alt or two.... 500M a pop every month or so is still a 90 day gtc for free. And, sadly, that is where you rate. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.09 16:12:00 - [14] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas I assure you this is not a scam. If that's the case, I suggest you resolve the default EBANK is about to place against you due to the unpaid loan. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.02.09 16:29:00 - [15] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas I assure you this is not a scam. If that's the case, I suggest you resolve the default EBANK is about to place against you due to the unpaid loan. Ladies and Gentlement, May I present^^^^ the first credit report from EBANK....... DISCLAIMER I am not in any way officially/unofficially, part of the EBANK organization. I am just a friendly neighborhood forum *****. Contents of my post are the expressed and most likely slightly delusional workings of my own mental process. So I have no idea if there is an EBANK credit reporting division, but it is the first instance of this, and thought it worth pointing out. --
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.09 16:36:00 - [16] Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 09/02/2008 16:36:58 I only commented on people holding a monopoly, not on their means of acquiring it or their intent; please don't read into things quite so much. In fact, apart from your statement that my views are misguided, I agree with you entirely. At the moment, the fact remains that there are very few people who are trusted widely enough to hold collateral or otherwise provide security for public ventures. There ought to be more choice, peer review and competition, and to that end I'm willing to take a few chances, in the hope that such people will eventually emerge. Even EBANK had to start somewhere. I would be the last to criticise the efficiency and governance of your operation, but your presence is now so significant that I can't help feeling that perhaps some other potentially trustworthy people are being brushed aside, and that's everyone's loss. Not necessarily all such people, or maybe not even any of them, but you've set the bar very high. Having said that, I'd be a lot more comfortable if the OP paid off his loan or at least came to some arrangement about it My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats

CCP Mitnal	Posted - 2008.02.09 16:40:00 - [17] Cleaned I appreciate the attempts of the community to self-police the forums and call us in when necessary, however, to be fair to all users please remain on-topic. To clarify, Kyrial was at liberty to repost the thread, without the religious references. Mitnal, Community Representative EVE Online CCP Games Email/Netfang

Daeva Vios Ares Arms and Modules LLC	Posted - 2008.02.09 18:17:00 - [18] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 09/02/2008 16:36:58 I only commented on people holding a monopoly, not on their means of acquiring it or their intent; please don't read into things quite so much. In fact, apart from your statement that my views are misguided, I agree with you entirely. At the moment, the fact remains that there are very few people who are trusted widely enough to hold collateral or otherwise provide security for public ventures. There ought to be more choice, peer review and competition, and to that end I'm willing to take a few chances, in the hope that such people will eventually emerge. Even EBANK had to start somewhere. I would be the last to criticise the efficiency and governance of your operation, but your presence is now so significant that I can't help feeling that perhaps some other potentially trustworthy people are being brushed aside, and that's everyone's loss. Not necessarily all such people, or maybe not even any of them, but you've set the bar very high. Having said that, I'd be a lot more comfortable if the OP paid off his loan or at least came to some arrangement about it The way I see it is this: There is something resembling a clique in this forum, to an outsider. There are people who have a perceived reputation in these forums. Certain amounts of deference are paid to these individuals, concessions are made that otherwise wouldn't be, etc. It's a subtle thing and it's pretty easy to miss if you're not looking for some shadow government to blame for your failings. The moment you do start blaming a shadow government...prepare to be marginalized. As for this: Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas I assure you this is not a scam. If that's the case, I suggest you resolve the default EBANK is about to place against you due to the unpaid loan. Your credit request from the First Imperial Bank of Daeva has been DENIED
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.02.10 10:23:00 - [19] to RICDIC, when did i borrow money from EBANK? I think you should recheck what you just said.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.02.10 10:30:00 - [20] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas to RICDIC, when did i borrow money from EBANK? I think you should recheck what you just said. Actually, i can confirm that you DO have a loan from EBank, which hasn't been paid back.
Yoko Kringe	Posted - 2008.02.10 10:38:00 - [21] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas to RICDIC, when did i borrow money from EBANK? I think you should recheck what you just said. Check your EBANK account
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.02.10 10:54:00 - [22] Edited by: Kyrial Tidolfas on 10/02/2008 10:55:48 edit: or i do infact have a loan. interesting. just for the record it is of the amount 1 isk.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.10 12:29:00 - [23] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas Edited by: Kyrial Tidolfas on 10/02/2008 10:55:48 edit: or i do infact have a loan. interesting. just for the record it is of the amount 1 isk. Something is not adding up here. Either EBANK is harassing a guy over 1 ISK or you're lying.... 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.02.10 12:42:00 - [24] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas I assure you this is not a scam. If that's the case, I suggest you resolve the default EBANK is about to place against you due to the unpaid loan. What are EBank's procedures for revealing account holder information? Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.02.10 12:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Kwint Sommer Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas Edited by: Kyrial Tidolfas on 10/02/2008 10:55:48 edit: or i do infact have a loan. interesting. just for the record it is of the amount 1 isk. Something is not adding up here. Either EBANK is harassing a guy over 1 ISK or you're lying.... Let's take bets on which!
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.02.10 12:44:00 - [26] EBank utilising a defaulted 1 ISK loan (which logic lets us assume was a test) as ammunition to shoot down someone's public loan request? Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.02.10 12:46:00 - [27] Originally by: Minerva Vulcan Let's take bets on which! I bet 1 ISK. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.02.10 12:51:00 - [28] Originally by: Ricdic If that's the case, I suggest you resolve the default EBANK is about to place against you due to the unpaid loan. Firstly, it was a 1 ISK loan. Secondly, using a default on a 1 ISK loan in an attempt to ruin the reputation of someone requesting a public loan is a low shot. Thirdly, EBank had best publicly release guidelines as to when they will release account holder information, if ever. Fourthly, you've just ruined any authority any possible collusion between the banks could have with regards to identifying bad creditors. Fithly, aplogise to the OP and get out of his thread. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.02.10 13:19:00 - [29] Sweet, delicious scandal drama! I dunno if it's true or not, but if it's a 1 ISK test loan or something, then I agree that is just a touch low, regardless of how crap the OP might be.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.02.10 13:21:00 - [30] Sadly, I have to confirm that records indicate a 1 isk loan. That's official records that I can check and I have no reason to believe there is any other records necessary. Ricdic is in a position where an apology is necessary. LaVista has been told, by me, in the past that he needs to stop talking as if he represents Ebank and thus this embarrassment is made worse by his chiming in. As an apology, I'm in for 250M. This is simply an apology. I don't know what else I can do to make up for the bad behavior of other people that I'm semi-liable for. In essence: Just because Ric was an jerk doesn't change the nature of your ipo or your status. Equally buying into your ipo doesn't make up for Ricdic being a jerk. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.02.10 13:33:00 - [31] O snap.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.02.10 13:38:00 - [32] Originally by: Minerva Vulcan O snap. Indeed To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.02.10 13:39:00 - [33] Edited by: LaVista Vista on 10/02/2008 13:43:45 Originally by: Shar Tegral LaVista has been told, by me, in the past that he needs to stop talking as if he represents Ebank and thus this embarrassment is made worse by his chiming in. Actually, im supposed to as per the TOS. Let me quote it again: Originally by: 5.0 Security and Auditing Level 2 Dispute: If the customer has received no resolution from EBANK Ricdic, they are to approach LaVista Vista with their dispute. LaVista Vista has 72 hours to resolve this dispute, by confirming via the database generated report. I suppose you can interpetate it differently. But doubt was put forward by the person. If a mistake was made on my behalf, im sorry for it.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.10 13:40:00 - [34] Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 10/02/2008 13:41:54 Nice **** up Ricdic....Oh well, I can see how one could glance at a list and see "highly overdue loan" and not the amount. Anyways, I don't want to be an apologist for Ricdic but lets be honest, the real tragedy is that someone has just invested in Kyrial Tidolfas. To anyone else considering doing so, I strongly advise you to read this thread and consider that there is 0 security and he's refusing any audit of any kind. May I say, I believe he will pay back whatever money he makes in the this IPO because no one puts this much time into this small of a scam. If it's a scam this will be the first of several ever larger IPO's until he gets an acceptable amount of ISK and then he'll run off with it. Alternatively he's legit but after his last attempt at an IPO utterly failed (read the linked thread) he's trying to start small and do things right but in my opinion he has a lot of atoning and proving he can act civilly to do first. 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.10 13:54:00 - [35] A loan is a loan. I won't apologise over it. A default is still a default regardless of amount. And EBANK have taken on the name and shame position with talks of a public blacklisting page. Sorry Ray we don't hide our defaultor's names under the carpet. Maybe it was a little harsh but it was still a loan requested, actioned, funds transferred, and money owing to EBANK. Or, should we just look the other way if the amount isn't considered large? What amount 'is' considered large? My question to the OP. If you don't address your loans on a piddly sum such as 1 isk why should people trust you with 500m? I don't mind either way. I made a valid and 100% true statement. If people want to invest out of some form of sympathy then by all means do it. I still won't be investing regardless. So to the OP. It looks like your pack mentality theory was proven wrong in this thread huh http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Robke Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.10 14:08:00 - [36] Edited by: Robke on 10/02/2008 14:15:11 To me, trying to discredit a new player over 1 isk is not very good proof against pack mentality. I will not be investing in this ipo, but I feel that everyone's ipo deserves the same analysis. To help Kyrial out, I offer to pay the FULL overdue amount plus 100% rent. This amount (2 isk) will be payed out of my own pocket within 24 hours. I don't think I can automatically repay someone else's loan, so if ebank could contact me by evemail with details on how to do this, I would appreciate it. edit: typos --------- Do not follow the instructions in this signature.
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.02.10 14:13:00 - [37] It seems OP was not ever aware he owes you 1 ISK. Just out of curiosity, did you mail him about his 1 ISK loan before you posted this Quote: If that's the case, I suggest you resolve the default EBANK is about to place against you due to the unpaid loan. in his Iwantpublicmoney thread? Anyway, you should be able to see difference between forgotten 1 ISK and defaulted loan.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.10 14:17:00 - [38] Originally by: Robke Edited by: Robke on 10/02/2008 14:10:08 To me, trying to discredit a new player over 1 isk is not very good proof against pack mentality. Actually I simply advised him of an outstanding EBANK loan that needed addressing before it became a default. Fairly straight forward. Quote: I will not be investing in this ipo, but I feel that everyone's ipo deserves the same analysis. I agree 100%. Anyone asking for public funding whilst having an EBANK default in play should have this brought to light. If payments are made etc it's a different story. Quote: To help Kyrial out, I offer to pay the FULL overdue amount plus 100% rent. This amount (2 isk) will be payed out of my own pocket within 24 hours. I don't think I can automatically repay someone else's loan, so if ebank could contact me by evemail with details to how to do this, I would appreciate it. Thanks but it can't be done internally. You can send the cash to Kyrial and he can put it towards his EBANK loan but that's about it. All EBANK loans have the same guidelines and the same rules. Every loan has three options in EBANK: 1) Active 2) Repaid 3) Default there's no fourth "get free isk" option. Sure it's a piddly amount but we need to treat all of our customers the same. In regards to the above 3 options there's no alternative. It's better he repays this small amount rather than the default option. Now I am quite sure I have evemailed Kyrial about this loan (overdue on repayments) about 1.5 weeks ago but not 100% certain. If I didn't do this I apologise for that. The rest still stands though. Both I and LaVista made perfectly accurate and correct statements and nothing more. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Robke Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.10 14:22:00 - [39] That is fair enough. I have transferred 2 isk to kyrial and hope he will use it to repay the debt. Not stating the full truth is not really the same as stating the truth. For instance; I was president of the usa. This is 100% true, I just didn't mention that it was in a computergame. --------- Do not follow the instructions in this signature.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.10 14:28:00 - [40] If he asked for and received a 1 ISK loan and then failed to repay it, Ricdic is fully justified in making that statement. If he didn't ask for the loan or borrowed a much more substantial sum and failed to pay back 1 ISK of it, this was a lot of silliness that shouldn't have happened. Taking out a loan and failing to pay any of it back -even if it is a trivial amount- speaks to the character and financial abilities of the borrower and Ricdic was right to post it. Publicly accusing someone of being near default on a loan where they failed to pay back an amount representing something like one-millionth the initial capital -likely as the result of a trivial clerical or rounding error- is obnoxious and the sort of bureaucratic BS that at the very least warrants an apology though investing in his IPO because of it is absurd and frankly to the detriment of all of MD. So, if I may ask, which of those is it? 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.02.10 14:37:00 - [41] Edited by: Shar Tegral on 10/02/2008 14:37:22 Originally by: Kwint Sommer So, if I may ask, which of those is it? In this so called dispute: Kyrial has an outstanding loan amount of 1.25 isk. Kyrial also has 2.10 isk in a sweep account. The math says, default repaid. To speak any further, given my current position as an ebank director, would be vastly inappropriate. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.10 14:41:00 - [42] Surely given the very public nature of the dispute and your spanking of Ricdic you can say whether the loan was indeed on the scale of 1 ISK or something much more inline with the scale of a normal business loan. A number nor anything close need not be given. 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.10 14:43:00 - [43] Both Ray and Shar, let me help you of those awfully high horses. I don't see any reason to apologise for anything, and I fully agree with Ricdic. EBANK only disclosed that the borrower was at risk of defaulting and thus protected it's own interests in light of the circumstance that the borrower is asking for public funds. If you put yourself out for public scrutiny, you better be damned sure your back yard is clean. In this case, he had a loan that hadn't been serviced. This loan has to this point not been serviced, so Kyrial is still in default. For the record, in light of a default, a bank is at liberty to protect it's interest in any way it sees fit. Whether 1 or 100b ISK loan, it makes no difference. If you want to argue 'low shots', we can equally argue that the OP is a timewaster taking out a 1 ISK loan he didn't need, and thus wasting EBANK's resources in servicing his request. Now in terms of the specifics, I believe that Ricdic had contacted the OP privately because he mentioned the public threat a day after I brought the situation of this conflict of interest to his attention. Whether this actually happened or not I cannot confirm nor deny, but the reality is the situation is that it remains unresolved: This loan is still in default.
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.02.10 14:54:00 - [44] Jesus Christ, you guys are comic. You are speaking about 1 ISK !!! and Ricdic is not even sure if he ever asked OP to repay it... Do you seriously believe that 1 forgotten ISK is good enough reason to discredit someone in public forum (without disclosing the amount)? I do not. You should apologize, otherwise you are loosing a lot of creditibility here (at least in my eyes). The fact alone, that you speak in public forum about someone's loan without being sure that the person even know about it, is alarming.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.10 14:57:00 - [45] Originally by: Mr Horizontal For the record, in light of a default, a bank is at liberty to protect it's interest in any way it sees fit. Whether 1 or 100b ISK loan, it makes no difference. From a consumerÆs standpoint it does, ever been harassed by creditors because you owe the phone company 1 cent? TheyÆre perfectly within their rights to do so but you wonÆt see me doing business with them if I can avoid it. Originally by: Mr Horizontal If you want to argue 'low shots', we can equally argue that the OP is a timewaster taking out a 1 ISK loan he didn't need, and thus wasting EBANK's resources in servicing his request. If you want to argue that he is a timewaster for taking out a 1 ISK loan you might as well argue that EBANK is stupid for going through all the trouble of actioning and tracking a 1 ISK loan. If it were completely automated that would be one thing but youÆre wasting significant human resources on 1 ISK. Originally by: Mr Horizontal This loan is still in default. Really? Shar seems to have stated otherwise. Most importantly of all, was it in fact a 1 ISK loan? 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.02.10 14:57:00 - [46] Mr Horizontal and Ricdic, I suggest you stop posting in this thread altogether. Put simply, you **** up and are still too arrogant to admit that mistake and apologise for it. Take a leaf out of Shar's book. Your assertion that 1ISK is equal to 100B is laughable. If you cannot see the difference between disclosing a default on those two vastly different amounts then you should not be in the positions you are. Do us all a favour and STFU until granddaddy Hexxx bails you out of this one. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE**.
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.02.10 14:59:00 - [47] Put simply, I am disgusted that you would think and still think that a default on a 1ISK loan is reason enough to publically demand repayment. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:03:00 - [48] Originally by: Robacz Jesus Christ, you guys are comic. You are speaking about 1 ISK !!! and Ricdic is not even sure if he ever asked OP to repay it... Where did he say that? Originally by: Robacz Do you seriously believe that 1 forgotten ISK is good enough reason to discredit someone in public forum (without disclosing the amount)? Failure to repay any of their loan is indeed reason enough. Failure to repay 1 ISK out of a 1M ISK loan is not, IMHO, worthy of publicly declaring that they are in default on a loan. Which is the case has not yet been made clear. Originally by: Robacz I do not. You should apologize, otherwise you are loosing a lot of creditibility here (at least in my eyes). The fact alone, that you speak in public forum about someone's loan without being sure that the person even know about it, is alarming. It is there responsibility to track their debts and if they fail to it speaks very strongly about them and their viability to handle public funds. Further, EBANK has a right to publicly declare anyone who is in or approaching default. 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:06:00 - [49] Originally by: Mr Horizontal This loan is still in default. Originally by: Kwint Sommer Really? Shar seems to have stated otherwise. Mr Horizontal is a welcome advisor and programmer at Ebank. His statement is correct as when he may have started typing his response. I only report that as of today, at some point, there was 2.10 isk deposited into the sweep account. It was given the remark of "From Robke". Further comment from me is not appropriate while my teller records are being reviewed pending acceptance of my resignation from Ebank. After that time I will then feel more free to make a public statement. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:06:00 - [50] Originally by: Ray McCormack Put simply, I am disgusted that you would think and still think that a default on a 1ISK loan is reason enough to publically demand repayment. The point was not so much demanding the 1 ISK back as pointing out the fact that the OP -asking for public money- has a history of not being able to manage his finances. If you can't see that distinction you need to stop double posting in this thread. In fact you need to stop double posting either way, it's really annoying.... 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:06:00 - [51] Originally by: Kwint Sommer Further, EBANK has a right to publicly declare anyone who is in or approaching default. Having never taken an EBank loan, nor ever wanting to, unless this is specifically stated in the loan agreement they have no right to publically divulge any information. If it is, then people are agreeing to be ridiculed as above for the measly amount of 1 ISK. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:08:00 - [52] Originally by: Kwint Sommer Originally by: Ray McCormack Put simply, I am disgusted that you would think and still think that a default on a 1ISK loan is reason enough to publically demand repayment. The point was not so much demanding the 1 ISK back as pointing out the fact that the OP -asking for public money- has a history of not being able to manage his finances. If you can't see that distinction you need to stop double posting in this thread. In fact you need to stop double posting either way, it's really annoying.... My posting methods are none of your concern. And you cannot seriously consider that not repaying a 1 ISK loan means he cannot manage his finances. No financial institution in the world thinks that. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:09:00 - [53] Originally by: Shar Tegral Further comment from me is not appropriate while my teller records are being reviewed pending acceptance of my resignation from Ebank. After that time I will then feel more free to make a public statement. Are you resigning over this? 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:10:00 - [54] First off, I am not a member of ebank or any other eve financial institution. Secondly, we all walk around here talking about how the eve economic system is so great compared to other games and how it is so much like real world economics. Why did I just say the above information? Because in a real world bank, say one in the U.S., if you don't repay a long of ANY amount it will default and you will suffer the consequences whether it is 1 dollar or 1000 dollars. Thirdly, if it was a simple oversight by the op not to pay back the small amount it shows he does pay enough attention to detail which to be equates to not being responsible enough to handle my isk. Fourthly, ANY bank should be concerned about ANY amount not just the ones with lots of zeros involved. I used to work at a bank and when the tellers were balancing their drawers and they were off by a dollar they didn't simply go "hey its not that much dont worry about it". Enough times of not worrying about it adds up. To everyone trying to **** off 1 isk, get real. As to ebank, I haven't gone and looked for the information yet as I just woke up but I think having some information about your privacy policy such as wether you can even divulge the amount of a defaulted loan would be great. If its there already then please point me in the right direction and if its not I think it should be. P.S. We are know this is a strange request for isk, and not the first strange one made by this guy. it doesnt look like the others were funded. Its crap so dont invest, simple as that. If you feel the need to invest then do it and stfu. Amarr Citizen 155 ---------------------------------------------- Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:12:00 - [55] Originally by: Ray McCormack And you cannot seriously consider that not repaying a 1 ISK loan means he cannot manage his finances. No financial institution in the world thinks that. As far as I know every credit rating company in the US would lower your rating if you borrowed 1 dollar from a major financial institution and defaulted on it. This is the same situation. 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:17:00 - [56] my story. At the start i made an account with EBANK putting in 0.1 isk. Then I made a request for loan for 1 isk. Now what i thought was that what would happen was 1. they ignore me 2. they give me money now they did give me money, but according to their FAQ they said that they would contact you to negotiate the interest amount which is between 10-15% that didnt happen i assumed the loan went unprocessed now that i have an ipo, one can see how stating "kyrial has an unpaid loan with EBANK" would do to my reputability but i have given up playing these words games with EBANK representatives and/or other people from my view: Ricdic made a bad move here. Eventhough he is, in the extremity of technicality, not at fault. I have an unpaid loan (who i think should not be there as i never received a confirmation and/or communication regarding it from EBANK ever), Ricdic stated the factual truth. So i put my ipo out. this is me. The loan is semi-irrelevant. My pass IPO is semi-irrelevant. Though i must add it wasnt a "failure" i did recieve a substatial amount from people would did not want to reveal themselves for what i could only think was because they didnt want to swim against the tide. to shar: do not guiltinvest in me. all is ok with me regarding the EBANK incident. invest if you trust, otherwise don't. to ricdic: i hope you stop hating me because i dont hate you. to kwint: i also dont hate you. i will not respond to any of your hate post. to everyone else defending me in one way or another: thank you for being an independent thinker who puts in your thoughts because they are important to me My investment is 500m continuous 2.5% a week withdraw anytime no security no audit
Roguehalo	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:18:00 - [57] I read ricdics post and immediately assumed that kyrial had defaulted on a substantial sum and was therefore not to be trusted. Since ricdic publicly posted that the loan was in default maybe he would like to clarify how the loan came to be taken out. i.e. why would a bank lend anybody 1 isk? And perhaps he would also like to clarify what steps were taken to recover this enormous outstanding debt before vilifying someone about it in public. Irrespective of the pros and cons of the ops ipo, publicizing this trivial debt in an attempt to be detrimental to the ops ipo is appalling behaviour. ricdic should reconsider his refusal to apologise for this.
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:21:00 - [58] I received no communication whatsoever from EBANK regarding the loan.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:27:00 - [59] Originally by: Ray McCormack Your assertion that 1ISK is equal to 100B is laughable. If you cannot see the difference between disclosing a default on those two vastly different amounts then you should not be in the positions you are. Actually, I value every isk as it is. There is a lot of clerical work and doctoring of accounts required for Mr Horizontal or Hexxx to just wipe the slate clean. And it's not something that's done without a real good reason behind it. We either put loans in a default, repaid, or active state. Anything else isn't automated and takes some time to resolve. Anyway, when Kyrial has resolved the debt I am happy to advise here if he likes to confirm it has been done. It hasn't hit default stage yet so there's no black marks etc against his name. Really, my first post was a simple suggestion that he get his EBANK finances in order now. It contained no content on specifics because I didn't want to derail his thread. Anyway I am sure this will go on for a few more pages but I won't be posting here any more. Now, it's not because Ray said so because frankly I couldn't give a damn, but simply because I have said all that needs to be said. If Kyrial has further issues he is free to contact me. Regarding privacy statements, disclosure etc I will need to look into this. I don't believe such form exists but if not it's something I am sure we should address. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:29:00 - [60] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas My pass IPO is semi-irrelevant. Though i must add it wasnt a "failure" i did recieve a substatial amount from people would did not want to reveal themselves for what i could only think was because they didnt want to swim against the tide. ... no security no audit You offer nothing for security or even an audit, you don't post regularly on the forum, no one will vouch for you, so all you have is your reputation. The sum total of your reputation is contained in your previous attempt at an IPO's thread so I would say it is the paramount issue here. Your past IPO was a bad joke and if it didn't ultimately contain some hilarious rants I would say it was a painful waste of time and space on this board. As far as people investing in it, I believe the phrase is, Proof or STFU. I encourage people to read said thread to get a feel for the OP. 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Roguehalo	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:30:00 - [61] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Its crap so dont invest, Amarr Citizen 155 maybe you could give some detailed reasoning as how you came to that conclusion. I've kind of got interested in all this so i've red kyrials 2 ipo threads. Both of them very quickly got derailed by forum trolls but nobody really made any meaningful statements as to why he should be a scammer. ok direct question to kyrial here. give me an outline of how you are trading and what skills you have trained and what skill you are training now. If it sounds ok i'll invest 50mill in you
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:34:00 - [62] Originally by: Roguehalo Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Its crap so dont invest, Amarr Citizen 155 maybe you could give some detailed reasoning as how you came to that conclusion. I've kind of got interested in all this so i've red kyrials 2 ipo threads. Both of them very quickly got derailed by forum trolls but nobody really made any meaningful statements as to why he should be a scammer. ok direct question to kyrial here. give me an outline of how you are trading and what skills you have trained and what skill you are training now. If it sounds ok i'll invest 50mill in you I never stated that I thought he was a scammer so please take those words out of my mouth. Second, the reason it is crap is because there are no details, he wont provide security of any kind, and he basically wants something for nothing. If you want to take on the risk then please do. I think it is crap and wont be investing because of his lack of details and information and his unwillingness to provide them. If he had simply left something out that would be different, but instead he thinks it isnt an important part of getting investors and is therefore not providing them. Thanks. Amarr Citizen 155 ---------------------------------------------- Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:35:00 - [63] Originally by: Ricdic Anyway, when Kyrial has resolved the debt I am happy to advise here if he likes to confirm it has been done. It hasn't hit default stage yet so there's no black marks etc against his name. And after all this drama finally we see why I said this was wrong. Until a customer is in default we are not, by ebank policy, to disclose the amounts of anyone's accounts or loans. Ricdic & LaVista have chosen to go off the Ebank reservation. I'm just standing on the other side of that line called "don't go past here" screaming and waving for them to come back over. Well, at least I was doing that. Why bother anymore? To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:36:00 - [64] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas I received no communication whatsoever from EBANK regarding the loan. With evemails not being trackable I can only give you the benefit of the doubt. Every month or so I go through all EBANK loans and track all interest payments etc on outstanding loans and I send friendly reminders to people about their loans. I started this month about 2 weeks ago and swear I sent notice to every loan in progress. If I didn't send you notice on that I apologise. I am a little skeptical as I spent quite some time going over it with a comb but I can still accept responsibility for that. So I apologise if there was a lack in notification but I cannot apologise for bringing it to your attention here. As a first point of contact it should not have occured but as above I was (well am) adamnant that contact had already been made. Anyway, fix up your debt and I am happy to advise people (this does mean paying off the loan in your EBANK account not just putting money there) http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:37:00 - [65] i go to places with lots of people look for items such that: -they are in demand but do not have a sale order -they are in high demand and i can buy from somewhere else to sell for a decent profit -buy orders for low profile easily resold named items practically NULL-risk ok return trading. I tried to get into more active trading but figure i will wait till i have more capital to work with first. i spend very little time doing trading but doing just these 2 can make some very good money for the time spent which is about 15 minutes a day I spent the rest missioning or shooting terrorists with AK's i took from them.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:39:00 - [66] Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 10/02/2008 15:42:14 Originally by: Roguehalo maybe you could give some detailed reasoning as how you came to that conclusion. I've kind of got interested in all this so i've red kyrials 2 ipo threads. Both of them very quickly got derailed by forum trolls but nobody really made any meaningful statements as to why he should be a scammer. ok direct question to kyrial here. give me an outline of how you are trading and what skills you have trained and what skill you are training now. If it sounds ok i'll invest 50mill in you They weren't being trolls, being a troll would be me posting "you're an idiot" and nothing else here. Being a troll is what kyrials did here. His asinine and paranoid comments also turned us off, then there's the fact that most of those calling for people not to invest have been around the block and seen/been hit by quite a few scams along the way. As such we know the signs when we see them. For instance, a new guy with no reputation insisting on 0 security, no audit and refusing to provide a meaningful business plan. EDIT: For the record, no one said he was a scammer, just showing the signs of it and thus people would be wise not to invest. One is an accusation, the other an observation and in that context there is a world of difference. If you really think Kyrial was being reasonable and MD was trolling him I encourage you to invest in his IPO, a lobotomy may also be in order.... 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:41:00 - [67] Edited by: LaVista Vista on 10/02/2008 15:43:45 Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas practically NULL-risk ok return trading. Im still interested in knowing how you can say theres null risk. Trading is by far one of the most dangerous way of making isk.
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:45:00 - [68] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas I received no communication whatsoever from EBANK regarding the loan. With evemails not being trackable I can only give you the benefit of the doubt. Every month or so I go through all EBANK loans and track all interest payments etc on outstanding loans and I send friendly reminders to people about their loans. I started this month about 2 weeks ago and swear I sent notice to every loan in progress. If I didn't send you notice on that I apologise. I am a little skeptical as I spent quite some time going over it with a comb but I can still accept responsibility for that. So I apologise if there was a lack in notification but I cannot apologise for bringing it to your attention here. As a first point of contact it should not have occured but as above I was (well am) adamnant that contact had already been made. Anyway, fix up your debt and I am happy to advise people (this does mean paying off the loan in your EBANK account not just putting money there) i state, with whatever reputation i have, that i "never ever spever dever receive any form of communication, psychic or otherwise, regarding this 1 isk loan from EBANK or any of its numerous representatives, at any stage of time, in any dimension EVER DEVER" seriously 0, nada, null, zilch, zap before you made a post on my thread i never knew the loan existed. and even when you did i didnt believe you and that was quite evident by my responses. so i must ask, who actually approved the loan. does s/he have any form of evidence supporting his communication with me (obviously not because it didnt happen). dont you need at least a written notice from someone regarding a loan. no banks would give out a loan unless they get the borrower to sign about 10 papers then make them jump through hoops then barrelroll on the floor twice. thats what i assumed. but i supposed i actually thought this might happen so i only asked for 1 isk. imagine the trouble i would be in if they had given me 100 billions instead. how would i ever pay that off??
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:46:00 - [69] Originally by: LaVista Vista Im still interested in knowing how you can say theres null risk. Trading is by far one of the most riskfull ways of making isk. You need to be more humble in your expectations to read between the lines... he's doing npc trade runs. More likely looking to do delayed sales to NPC buy orders. Of course, the return is guaranteed if someone is willing to put all that effort into spreading one's sales out. However the time frame, given the potential competition, makes it so that 2.5% per month is the only real guarantee he could give. It makes sense, but to be honest it's not worth the slandering an ipo attempt is going to generate. Especially since he's refusing to disclose information to verify anything. Regardless of what anyone else says, this is a poor risk ipo. It didn't need the Ebank drama to make it so. More correctly, Ebank did not need this thread more than this thread did not need Ebank. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:49:00 - [70] Originally by: LaVista Vista Edited by: LaVista Vista on 10/02/2008 15:43:45 Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas practically NULL-risk ok return trading. Im still interested in knowing how you can say theres null risk. Trading is by far one of the most dangerous way of making isk. Market speculation is dangerous, buylow/sellhigh module trading is not.
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:51:00 - [71] its 2.5% a week. it is non NPC. it is safe because there is no stage where i could lose isk. i would never get suicided because i haul trash most the time (isk/m3)-wise. i wouldnt lose money to market fluctuation because i only trade in relatively stable high demand items. even if an item got funked and went down 100% i would lose at most ~10m-20m. so it is really near-NULL risk.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:52:00 - [72] Originally by: Shar Tegral It makes sense, but to be honest it's not worth the slandering an ipo attempt is going to generate. Especially since he's refusing to disclose information to verify anything. Regardless of what anyone else says, this is a poor risk ipo. It didn't need the Ebank drama to make it so. More correctly, Ebank did not need this thread more than this thread did not need Ebank.[/justify] No one needed this....It's actually quite sad to see Ebank coming to pieces with directors leaving and all over such a pointless IPO and 1 ISK. All good things man, all good things.... 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.10 15:52:00 - [73] Edited by: Mr Horizontal on 10/02/2008 15:56:03 Edit: Forgive me, this has already been resolved. This loan has now been satisfied. Sorry for any inconvenience caused.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2008.02.10 16:08:00 - [74] Originally by: Kwint Sommer Originally by: Shar Tegral It makes sense, but to be honest it's not worth the slandering an ipo attempt is going to generate. Especially since he's refusing to disclose information to verify anything. Regardless of what anyone else says, this is a poor risk ipo. It didn't need the Ebank drama to make it so. More correctly, Ebank did not need this thread more than this thread did not need Ebank.[/justify] No one needed this....It's actually quite sad to see Ebank coming to pieces with directors leaving and all over such a pointless IPO and 1 ISK. All good things man, all good things.... This is why we generally keep our discussions private...we can be free to disagree with each other without people being alarmist about it. Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.02.10 16:26:00 - [75] Edited by: Shadarle on 10/02/2008 16:26:58 1. Why do E-Bank people have disputes with each other over internal policy on the MD forum? Both Shar and LV are responsible here and to me this is the biggest problem showing up in this thread. Both made a lot of posts here they shouldn't have and frankly Shar did more harm to E-Bank than anyone else did. He should have followed his own advice and stayed on his side of the line and not gone past it, but he did. 2. LV should never, for any reason, have a speaking role on behalf of E-Bank. He's a nice enough guy but he doesn't know when to bite his tongue or what not to say. I am quite certain he helps out a lot internally, but a public spokesperson he is not as has been proven time and again in threads here. 3. If this loan was not in default then Ricdic was wrong to bring it forward. Unless he plans to bring to the attention of the forum every single time someone has a loan that they haven't 100% payed off. The only problem comes when it defaults, then it is of course completely kosher to bring it to public attention. 4. If Shar actually leaves E-Bank over this then it's pathetic beyond belief. Shar, I love your posts, but lately you've been far more emotional. I suppose I can understand why, based on RL events, and if those events are what has caused such a large change in your personality then it probably is for the best you leave E-Bank. You have seemed to be a different person as of late. Even so, to me it seems like a script out of a movie. You're the star who just can't stay in a relationship. You have to keep pushing away everyone who gets close. It seems like you've been trying your hardest to push and tug at E-Bank until you could find a reason to break up with it. Maybe not consciously, but it has appeared that way for a while now. Perhaps you should take a step back, reduce your responsibilities in E-Bank big time for now, and just chill for some time. See how you feel about things in a few weeks or a month. 5. This IPO is still not worth investing a penny into IMO. I don't think he will scam, I just think the OP has proven he is not someone I'd want to do business with. Maybe in a few months he'll try yet again. I just don't understand why anyone who is 100% certain they are capable of making 2.5%/week needs a pitiful amount like 500 mil isk. Make it yourself. 6. Ray, all I read in your posts is "E-Bank is stealing all my business so I'm going to play this up as much as I can to try to discredit them!" To your credit, Ricdic has seemingly been trying to help you do this... but it's still quite clear what your motivation is. Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.02.10 16:34:00 - [76] I agree 110% with everything Shadarle has just stated in the above 6 point thread. --
Daeva Vios Ares Arms and Modules LLC	Posted - 2008.02.10 17:13:00 - [77] Edited by: Daeva Vios on 10/02/2008 17:13:02 Originally by: Shadarle Edited by: Shadarle on 10/02/2008 16:26:58 stuff I spent the last 67 posts thinking of what I was gonna say, then Shadarle said everything I thought up in better ways than I could have. Damn you, Shadarle.
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.02.10 17:21:00 - [78] Whatever happened to Scenecs speaking for EBANK? It's better then Quafe! Off-topic. Please don't point out semantic errors of the moderators - Mitnal
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2008.02.11 00:40:00 - [79] This ended up being quite an interestin and enlightening read. Also, what Shad just said ^^ Eve Corp Web Design \| Eve Online Addicts
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.02.11 01:26:00 - [80] a sly bump
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.11 01:45:00 - [81] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas a sly bump Oh for the love of God....this thread is so recent that the first locked version is still on the front page. It's barely 24 hours old and if the same bumping rules apply here as in the sell forum then you're not supposed to bump the thread within 24 hours of posting in it, aka. 1 bump per day. You're in violation of both common decency and forums rules by bumping this so soon. I'm not going to wastes a mod's time over it but please cease and desists. 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Deez Onit Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.02.11 04:45:00 - [82] I'm very, very, very bothered with all of you... instead of sweating over 1 isk, you could have worked harder to procure the 3b isk loan I requested... was told I'd hear back in a week, and then never heard anything again.
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.02.11 05:45:00 - [83] Originally by: Shadarle 6. Ray, all I read in your posts is "E-Bank is stealing all my business so I'm going to play this up as much as I can to try to discredit them!" To your credit, Ricdic has seemingly been trying to help you do this... but it's still quite clear what your motivation is. Shadarle, once again you miss the boat. Do I need to point out every time you bring this up that the BMBE loan average has actually increased? Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2008.02.11 11:01:00 - [84] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Shadarle 6. Ray, all I read in your posts is "E-Bank is stealing all my business so I'm going to play this up as much as I can to try to discredit them!" To your credit, Ricdic has seemingly been trying to help you do this... but it's still quite clear what your motivation is. Shadarle, once again you miss the boat. Do I need to point out every time you bring this up that the BMBE loan average has actually increased? No, you don't, but surely you can see the humor the rest of us see when a BMBE representative rails about the proper handling of defaulted loans. As to the rest of this thread--I have strong opinions. I choose not to share them, as nobody (should) care. Most of this thread should never have had a reason to come to exist; make of that what you will. MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.02.11 14:04:00 - [85] Originally by: Motivated Prophet No, you don't, but surely you can see the humor the rest of us see when a BMBE representative rails about the proper handling of defaulted loans. Oh yes, the irony is not lost on me. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2008.02.11 14:28:00 - [86] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Motivated Prophet No, you don't, but surely you can see the humor the rest of us see when a BMBE representative rails about the proper handling of defaulted loans. Oh yes, the irony is not lost on me. Just checking. At the risk of derailing the thread a bit (more), did BMBE ever make a final decision on whether or not to release the name of the scammer who defaulted and defrauded you? MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.02.11 14:45:00 - [87] Originally by: Motivated Prophet At the risk of derailing the thread a bit (more), did BMBE ever make a final decision on whether or not to release the name of the scammer who defaulted and defrauded you? I think it was derailed long before. Enquiring after a final decision suggests it was up for discussion in the first place. It never was. We won't release the names of defaulters, past, present or future. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.11 14:52:00 - [88] Originally by: Ray McCormack We won't release the names of defaulters, past, present or future. What if that defaulter released a public corporation tomorrow at 100b and you were 99% sure it was a scam as a result of your BMBE dealings with the individual? Would you toss it under a rug and let people get scammed out of all their isk? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.02.11 14:57:00 - [89] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Ray McCormack We won't release the names of defaulters, past, present or future. What if that defaulter released a public corporation tomorrow at 100b and you were 99% sure it was a scam as a result of your BMBE dealings with the individual? Would you toss it under a rug and let people get scammed out of all their isk? Do you seriously expect me to answer such a loaded question? Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.11 15:01:00 - [90] Edited by: Ricdic on 11/02/2008 15:05:39 Edited by: Ricdic on 11/02/2008 15:04:02 Originally by: Ray McCormack Do you seriously expect me to answer such a loaded question? Well I think it's pretty valid. Not in this instance obviously as the sums involved are on a small scale. But if it was the BMBE defaulter who stole from BMBE shareholders who then showed up here with an IPO what would you do? It's one of those questions where if you stick to prior morales you screw over your fellow investors. If you don't, well you save your investors. It's a serious question though. Once we get our policies and disclosure documentation up to date I would like to think EBANK will step in and report a defaulter (in fact, we would have a page dedicated to them). But how does BMBE address such a scenario if it occurs? edit: The same question could be applied to Fastlearner. I am not trying to discredit anyone (I have already made a few screwups these last few days already) but it is an important question. I don't want to devote a whole thread to it but I feel this thread has already been derailed to a point where it can't be salvaged (having said that, I am sorry Kyrial as I definetly did begin the derailment and it kinda escalated way further than expected) edit 2: I re-read my post and it definetly had a negative spin on it so I edited it to remove the 'loaded' and unnecessary part. You are free to edit yours accordingly if you like. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.02.11 15:06:00 - [91] The BMBE has no need to release defaulter information, as under normal circumstances they would also have lost out due to the collateral exceeding the loan amount. It just happens there's one very public case when this was not the case, but it still doesn't allow us to create exceptions willy-nilly. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.02.11 15:11:00 - [92] Originally by: Ricdic What if that defaulter released a public corporation tomorrow at 100b and you were 99% sure it was a scam as a result of your BMBE dealings with the individual? How would you address such a scenario? edit: removed negative spin Don't forget that defaulter loses collateral, which often has higher value than the loan itself. I think all details about loans, defaulted or not, should be confidental. Banks are not here to save people from being scammed.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.11 15:12:00 - [93] Ok let me rephrase. If you had someone default/scam after their capital was devalued considerably and have to write off the debt would you say anything if that person appeared in these forums offering a large IPO and you had reason to believe (based on your experience with the person through BMBE) they would be scamming people? Really it's a risk every bank/loan institution has to be aware of. I won't bring up that old issue in detail, but the way it happened was something that could happen to any of us. So there is every possibility it could happen again tomorrow to any of the banks. Anyway that's my last post on this subject. I can't give an answer as to what we would do as we haven't determined it yet but I will when we do. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.11 15:13:00 - [94] Edited by: Ricdic on 11/02/2008 15:14:27 Originally by: Robacz Don't forget that defaulter loses collateral, which often has higher value than the loan itself. Sorry the example was related to a default/scam in which causing the banks to be financially hurt, hopefully I cleared it up a bit in above post Quote: I think all details about loans, defaulted or not, should be confidental. Banks are not here to save people from being scammed. That is a valid viewpoint. I may not agree with it personally but it's a fair call. edit: sorry this is my last post on the subject http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.02.11 15:21:00 - [95] Originally by: Ricdic Sorry the example was related to a default/scam in which causing the banks to be financially hurt Is it not the bank's loss then for incorrectly valuing collateral? Exceptions can't be made just because the institution has made a mistake. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2008.02.11 15:50:00 - [96] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Ricdic Sorry the example was related to a default/scam in which causing the banks to be financially hurt Is it not the bank's loss then for incorrectly valuing collateral? Exceptions can't be made just because the institution has made a mistake. I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but what is the point of this statement? Is it the bank's loss? Of course. It would be in either scenario. This statement adds nothing to the discussion; we are all agreed that the fault and liability for a loss related to an under-collateralized loan, regardless of its collateral level at issuance, lies squarely with the issuing bank and/or loan officer. The question I/we am/are posing is solely this: assuming bad faith on the part of the person who defaulted, is the bank the only person who can or should have the ability to know this black mark on the defaulting party's record, or may this information (whether acquired at a profit or at a loss for the bank) be disclosed as a service to the community and even, potentially, as a means to effect collection? MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.02.11 16:07:00 - [97] Ok, the first burning question in my mind is: why the hell does ebank allow 1 isk loans? That's way too much manpower for a trivial sum of money. I'd disallow anything under a million, but that's just me. Secondly Quote: Im still interested in knowing how you can say theres null risk. Trading is by far one of the most dangerous way of making isk. Many people have different definitions of the word 'trading'. Buying modules that are sold for less than mineral value and reprocessing them is completely risk free, unless you leave your orders up the day after a patch hits. Buying modules low and selling high in the same day is also pretty risk, free, as long as you don't wander off and leave your orders standing overnight while you're not there.
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.02.11 16:38:00 - [98] Originally by: Ray McCormack The BMBE has no need to release defaulter information, as under normal circumstances they would also have lost out due to the collateral exceeding the loan amount. It just happens there's one very public case when this was not the case, but it still doesn't allow us to create exceptions willy-nilly. If BMBE had information regarding someone defaulting and kept it secret while an IPO formed, took billions of ISK, and then scammed it I would hold BMBE as a co-conspirator myself and I doubt I'm alone here. When you loan money from a bank you may have an expectation of privacy, but if you violate the terms/conditions you most certainly do not. The second you default that should become public knowledge even if you aren't starting an IPO. But if you are starting an IPO there is absolutely no excuse for the bank not mentioning it. The bank is only acting to cover this up if they refuse to disclose the information, thus becoming a conspirator in any scam. In RL any default is visible by anyone who wishes to do a credit report. So trying to say people in EVE need greater privacy than people in RL is quite silly. Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.02.11 17:04:00 - [99] Edited by: Robacz on 11/02/2008 17:04:18 Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Ray McCormack The BMBE has no need to release defaulter information, as under normal circumstances they would also have lost out due to the collateral exceeding the loan amount. It just happens there's one very public case when this was not the case, but it still doesn't allow us to create exceptions willy-nilly. If BMBE had information regarding someone defaulting and kept it secret while an IPO formed, took billions of ISK, and then scammed it I would hold BMBE as a co-conspirator myself and I doubt I'm alone here. When you loan money from a bank you may have an expectation of privacy, but if you violate the terms/conditions you most certainly do not. The second you default that should become public knowledge even if you aren't starting an IPO. But if you are starting an IPO there is absolutely no excuse for the bank not mentioning it. The bank is only acting to cover this up if they refuse to disclose the information, thus becoming a conspirator in any scam. In RL any default is visible by anyone who wishes to do a credit report. So trying to say people in EVE need greater privacy than people in RL is quite silly. Well you are the guy who wanted to hunt and kill people/corps who vouched for scammers, so your opinion is not surprising. BTW, it may be like that in your country, but it is not some world standard. Where I live, loan defaults are only shared between banks; individuals / non-bank organizations have no way to get that information.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.11 17:21:00 - [100] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Ray McCormack The BMBE has no need to release defaulter information, as under normal circumstances they would also have lost out due to the collateral exceeding the loan amount. It just happens there's one very public case when this was not the case, but it still doesn't allow us to create exceptions willy-nilly. If BMBE had information regarding someone defaulting and kept it secret while an IPO formed, took billions of ISK, and then scammed it I would hold BMBE as a co-conspirator myself and I doubt I'm alone here. When you loan money from a bank you may have an expectation of privacy, but if you violate the terms/conditions you most certainly do not. The second you default that should become public knowledge even if you aren't starting an IPO. But if you are starting an IPO there is absolutely no excuse for the bank not mentioning it. The bank is only acting to cover this up if they refuse to disclose the information, thus becoming a conspirator in any scam. In RL any default is visible by anyone who wishes to do a credit report. So trying to say people in EVE need greater privacy than people in RL is quite silly. I strongly agree. What we need is greater access to people's financial history, not the other way around. I too would hold a bank accountable for all ISK stolen should they knowingly fail to disclose that someone attempting to gather public funds had defaulted. 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Banni Vinda The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.11 17:56:00 - [101] Edited by: Banni Vinda on 11/02/2008 17:56:50 (Note: This is just a personal comment on the matter of a bank's voluntary disclosure. Not necessarily EBank's policy, nor what I might prefer EBank's policy to be. These are just some personal thoughts after reading this thread) For anyone posting here looking for investment, a valid question that might be asked of them is "Do you have any kind of credit history with a known bank?" The person then has a few options: 1) They ignore the question 2) They answer, saying they have no history 3) They answer, saying they do have a history, and describe in their opinion how their rating might stand. 4) They answer, saying they do have a history, but prefer to keep it private A bank/institution then has the following options/obligations for each case: 1a) (The bank has no credit opinion on the person) - The bank says nothing. If asked directly: "No comment" 1b) (The bank does have a good credit rating on the person) - The bank says nothing. If asked directly: "No comment". The bank shouldn't endorse a person, unless that person specifically brings up their banking/credit rating. 1c) (The bank does have a bad credit rating on the person) - The bank says nothing. If asked directly, the bank could offer a statement that, in their opinion, the person represents a bad credit risk. The bank's reasons/intelligence should be kept private to the bank. 2) The bank confirms/denies the person's claim. If there is a credit history, the bank should confirm it, since the person's claim differs from the bank's. If you lie about your credit history, you should be called out on it. 3) The bank states it's agreement/disagreement with the person's claim. Note that a positive credit rating is just based on prior relations. It offers no guarantee on the person's future behaviour, nor offers any comment on the proposed investment. 4) Providing the term mentioned below was included in the original contract, then the bank may publish any information of its choosing regarding the person. However it is not obligated to publish any information at all. All of the above is assuming that any loans entered into between a person and a bank include the stipulation that, if the loan is defaulted, the bank may publish any information of it's choosing about the deal. Does a bank exist to provide a credit-rating/reporting service to the community. I don't necessarily think so? It might offer this, but I don't think it is obligated to do so in any/all cases. EDIT: Typo and numbering fix
Klavayne Free Mercenaries Union FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2008.02.11 23:55:00 - [102] Originally by: Robacz BTW, it may be like that in your country, but it is not some world standard. Where I live, loan defaults are only shared between banks; individuals / non-bank organizations have no way to get that information. That information goes further than you think, maybe not the specifics of it, but the repercussions do. This experience comes from personal experience of selling storecards through work (i wouldn't if i had the choice), the details of a persons credit history might not be available, but the negative effects are, e.g. they wont be allowed credit by the company i semi-represented if they had defaulted etc. The same reason holds true here. Yes, ricdic et al. might not have gone about it the best way but i think the intention was there to protect investors from a possibly risky business venture, even if exaggeration was necessary i don't think ricdic did it without thought. I'm not in the market for investments at the moment anyway so i'll stay out of this thread now.
Cogwheel	Posted - 2008.02.12 00:18:00 - [103] Edited by: Cogwheel on 12/02/2008 00:18:14 Has anyone ever thought about establishing an EVE Credit Bureau?
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2008.02.12 00:22:00 - [104] Originally by: Cogwheel Edited by: Cogwheel on 12/02/2008 00:18:14 Has anyone ever thought about establishing an EVE Credit Bureau? I was actually thinking about this last night but a few things kept me from thinking about it anymore. 1. who would be in charge of keeping it updated and couldn't they ruin the credit of someone they dont like. 2. who would supply the credit information? ebank? fury? Ray? What if I start my own bank, could I have access to submit information? 3. who would have access to the information once submitted? anyone willing to pay a fee? what about confidentiality? 4. i couldn't think of #4 as the first 3 pretty much told me it wouldnt work. ---------------------------------------------- Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.12 00:29:00 - [105] Originally by: Cogwheel Edited by: Cogwheel on 12/02/2008 00:18:14 Has anyone ever thought about establishing an EVE Credit Bureau? Yes, there was discussion of it but there are lots of barriers, not the least of which is the fact that virtually all of the bond offers here are either from already reputable people whom a credit bureau wouldn't help or from totally unknown people with no credit history. Plus, when you have a purely mathematical system with stated rules it opens itself to manipulation. I would love to see the big lenders publish data on anyone that asks for public money unfortunately it's mostly either unnecessary or there's nothing of note to publish. 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Cogwheel	Posted - 2008.02.12 00:32:00 - [106] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 1. who would be in charge of keeping it updated Creditors would be in charge of updating the Bureau with new details. Quote: and couldn't they ruin the credit of someone they dont like. Of course :) But that's not much different than now... The Bureau would be responsible for audits and handling any disputes that may arise. Quote: 2. who would supply the credit information? ebank? fury? Ray? What if I start my own bank, could I have access to submit information? IMO, yes. This would be consistent with RL bureaus. Quote: 3. who would have access to the information once submitted? My feeling is that the person wanting credit would have to authorize the release of their credit report to the company they want to do business with. The lender could make this a term of the agreement. Quote: anyone willing to pay a fee? Not quite sure what you mean... Quote: what about confidentiality? I could ask the same questions about ANY of the businesses operating in this context (banks, IPOs, etc.). ;) In all honesty, I don't see any risks in the system beyond those that people face anyway...
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2008.02.12 00:42:00 - [107] Originally by: Cogwheel Quote: anyone willing to pay a fee? Not quite sure what you mean... Who makes money from this? Why would anyone who has enough reputation capital to be capable of pulling this off be willing to attach their name to a venture like this? MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?
Cogwheel	Posted - 2008.02.12 01:47:00 - [108] Edited by: Cogwheel on 12/02/2008 01:47:34 Originally by: Motivated Prophet Originally by: Cogwheel Quote: anyone willing to pay a fee? Not quite sure what you mean... Who makes money from this? Why would anyone who has enough reputation capital to be capable of pulling this off be willing to attach their name to a venture like this? MP Perhaps it could be a not-for-profit joint venture between the major lenders? Perhaps it could charge subscription or per-report fees? Those are just the first two possibilities that pop to mind... I really like this line of questions... perhaps this deserves a new thread? (or is this one so totally derailed as to make that a non-issue? )
Cogwheel	Posted - 2008.02.12 01:56:00 - [109] Edited by: Cogwheel on 12/02/2008 02:01:45 Originally by: Kwint Sommer Yes, there was discussion of it but there are lots of barriers, not the least of which is the fact that virtually all of the bond offers here are either from already reputable people whom a credit bureau wouldn't help or from totally unknown people with no credit history. Perhaps with a system like this lenders, banks, potential investors, etc. might be more comfortable with riskier investments. Nothing like backing IPOs with sparse info, but things like partially-secured loans with high interest rates, or other more casual practices. Quote: Plus, when you have a purely mathematical system with stated rules it opens itself to manipulation. Do you mean something like your credit score? That would be an entirely separate issue... The underlying report would simply be a listing of accounts and any pertinent details thereof (requests for credit, payment histories, defaults, etc.). Any sort of score or rating would need to be taken with a grain of salt. Edit: Don't get me wrong... I don't suffer any delusions that a credit bureau might help prevent scams, etc. It's not meant for that purpose as far as I'm concerned. The purpose would simply be to make the financial market more liquid.
Ryu Kibegami Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.02.14 01:53:00 - [110] I will say I invested 150mil ISK the first time he made an offering before everything became a drama. I lost a ship and thus needed my ISK returned, and Kyrial payed me the funds owed to me promtly. Thus, I will say from my experience he produced what he promised. I will not comment about other aspects as that is not relavent to the thread.
pmacFTO Caldari Dark Nova Crisis Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2008.02.14 21:25:00 - [111] hmm...I see: Request, ridicule, refute, scam, quote, quote, argue, quote, argue, PR disaster, argue, refute, quote, quote, laugh, ego, bicker, quote, quote, in fight, quote, support, argue, zzzzzz Having fun? Forums are always a laugh.
Ferrosa GREY COUNCIL Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.15 10:13:00 - [112] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Kwint Sommer Originally by: Ray McCormack Put simply, I am disgusted that you would think and still think that a default on a 1ISK loan is reason enough to publically demand repayment. The point was not so much demanding the 1 ISK back as pointing out the fact that the OP -asking for public money- has a history of not being able to manage his finances. If you can't see that distinction you need to stop double posting in this thread. In fact you need to stop double posting either way, it's really annoying.... My posting methods are none of your concern. And you cannot seriously consider that not repaying a 1 ISK loan means he cannot manage his finances. No financial institution in the world thinks that. Ah please, you're bashing everyone around here about their posting methods and we can't say anything about yours? Stop acting like Mr. Saint Of All That Lives and move along. You stated yourself that you have never taken out a loan at EBANK, so frankly, you shouldn't be in this discussion. I respect you a lot, but don't start criticising and complaining about every word someone posts around here.
Chomin H'ak The Trivenerate	Posted - 2008.02.15 23:42:00 - [113] Originally by: Ricdic Ok let me rephrase. If you had someone default/scam after their capital was devalued considerably and have to write off the debt would you say anything if that person appeared in these forums offering a large IPO and you had reason to believe (based on your experience with the person through BMBE) they would be scamming people? I hate to beat a dead horse, but I have to raise a valid question. In your question, Ricdic, you say if someone defaulted/scammed. But this guy never defaulted on the loan. My question is what right do you have to discredit someone for a loan that is still in due-process? What right does the E-Bank founder have to publicly humiliate and discredit anyone who has not defaulted? The 'bush administration' mentality of "but what if he WAS a terrorist?" has begged me to ask the question. I by no means mean any disrespect to you or your company, but as a consumer and also a budding entrepreneur I believe it is my right to know my rights should I choose to do business with an institution that may be holding the funds of my investors.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.16 00:15:00 - [114] Originally by: Chomin H'ak I hate to beat a dead horse, but I have to raise a valid question. In your question, Ricdic, you say if someone defaulted/scammed. But this guy never defaulted on the loan. My question is what right do you have to discredit someone for a loan that is still in due-process? What right does the E-Bank founder have to publicly humiliate and discredit anyone who has not defaulted? The 'bush administration' mentality of "but what if he WAS a terrorist?" has begged me to ask the question. I by no means mean any disrespect to you or your company, but as a consumer and also a budding entrepreneur I believe it is my right to know my rights should I choose to do business with an institution that may be holding the funds of my investors. This is not the place to discuss politics and not the time to discuss the Ebank stuff. That has been discussed to death and then some. Every valid point has been said, argued about, said again with emphasis, trolled and then most of the threads were locked. Leave it alone and take the politics somewhere else. 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Chomin H'ak The Trivenerate	Posted - 2008.02.16 00:22:00 - [115] Originally by: Kwint Sommer take the politics somewhere else. No politics involved, I was working on a way to get an account through EBank that would allow investors to take from their respective share earnings and let them see what their money is doing at the same time with Ricdic a few weeks ago. Now, should I look elsewhere for my business, or not? I believe I'm asking a valid question. If he tells me it's in my best interest to go elsewhere, then fine. Politics are bad for business, imo.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.02.16 00:27:00 - [116] I think the political reference itself was the matter that was being pointed out. As for your more pertinent question, this has become not the place for meaningful discussion on the matter due to contention/trolling on this issue (and many others). I hope this answers why you won't get an answer here at this time nor any time soon. If you truly seek discussion on the matter Ebank maintains forums of its very own. These forums have a more lax environment with which to discuss as well as being free of rampant, or subtle, trolling. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.

Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.