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DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.15 00:03:00 - [31] Originally by: Ranger 1 I'd like to know exactly why the OP chose the unsecure method for most (but not all) of his transactions. You obviously knew there was an approved and safe method... after all, you admitted you used it for one of the transactions. I can imagine him trading those to/with corp mates as a reason to do it hassle free. - - - Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.02.15 00:06:00 - [32] So how do we know that the OP isn't involved in some kind of ISK laundering operation here? The fact that he just decided to use the unsecure method for 4 out of his 5 transactions is a little weird. In addition, how did you make these sales without visiting the relevant forum? ---------------- Tarminic - 32 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.3 (NEW VERSION!)
Thicky McThick	Posted - 2008.02.15 00:06:00 - [33] Originally by: DrAtomic Originally by: Thicky McThick You expect any Eve player to give a damn? I do because CCP has their GMs police stuff and provide consequences to that affect real life but didnt update their documentation about it. Any honest player can easily make the same mistake the OP did and loose real life money for nothing. I can understand the OP feeling scammed by CCP because in a way he was; at least by Jita standards it would be a dirty contract trick. Another day another dollar, this was no noob to Eve, to be able to even go through the mechanics of it all shows that, and then to quote rules, regs, to justify it. Oh my heart so bleeds for him. I would say in the spirit of any game, it's as good as a cheat, and "honest" I think has no place in your reply, I'm sure many can supply a suitable name. Post with your Alt and not your Main, 'cos I don't care about your Name.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.15 00:10:00 - [34] Originally by: DrAtomic Edit: if a government would change a law and fails to update the lawbook but instructs the police to act on it and informs the public though leaflets in the postoffice what would you think a judge would rule? A judge would abide the lawbook as it has the rules of society, leaflets dont make lawbooks. As someone who has been a victim of this, if it is voted on and changed, nothing else matters, the judge will uphold the law. Years ago my license was suspended due to this exact situation. The only difference is, instead of leaflets, there were a handful of "signs." Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.02.15 00:10:00 - [35] In September 2007 GM Nova stated in the post with the title "Very important Notice to ETC traders" That selling GTC outside the secure way is illegal. It also states they will receive a warning and possibly loose their ISK. This post have been around for like 5 months now, and even if you are new to the ETC trade, it is usual to read the rules of the forums - which are always in the locked part of that forum. Another thread at the top states there are "new game time code rules!" Here too you can read that selling ETC outside the secure way is not allowed. These thread names should give a indication that you should have read this post, and since its like thread number 1 and 6 in this forum - from the top, you should have seen them too! CCP have done their part to ensure the rules to get out to the public. The rules where clear in the top of the forum you advertise in, with titles which makes it clear there are rules for the trade, and some of them have changed! I am sorry you lost your money, but the rules are there, and they are all clear. Originally by: CCP Whisper I got your ambulation right here... <walks off to get more wine>
Ikasu Gallente Scrutari The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.02.15 00:10:00 - [36] I'm with the OP on this one, that's a bit extreme, being so far in the whole playing the game is now practically impossible even though the faqs he read failed to state that such actions were illegal. "Ignorance of the Law is not a valid defense," this is true, but at the same time the fact that this was illegal was practically hidden. Some people read the Eula, the faqs, and never touch the forums. Hope somehow things work out.
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.02.15 00:16:00 - [37] wow glad I read this thread. Ive never actually bought a gtc yet but am about to. I didnt realise that this would happen either tbh. I was under the impression it was as the OP says, you get scammed by not using the secure method dont come crying to ccp. Better go do some reading into the actual rules on this. Why is the "secure" method so important? Is it to eliminate isk selling or something? Peace WithinSo if the theory of relativity is true, shouldn't i arrive at my destination before i warped in the first place? Neon GhostYou do, but this is compensated for by lag
Thicky McThick	Posted - 2008.02.15 00:21:00 - [38] Originally by: Ikasu I'm with the OP on this one, that's a bit extreme, being so far in the whole playing the game is now practically impossible even though the faqs he read failed to state that such actions were illegal. "Ignorance of the Law is not a valid defense," this is true, but at the same time the fact that this was illegal was practically hidden. Some people read the Eula, the faqs, and never touch the forums. Hope somehow things work out. One timecard , you could say ok fair enough. Five and all the quoting, bleeting, protestations, the OP knew exactly what he was walking into. Of course some of you others doing the same will come here to defend, as it will prob impact on the other rule bending you do too, to earn your tainted isk and conversions into cash. Post with your Alt and not your Main, 'cos I don't care about your Name.
Frug True Foundation R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.02.15 00:35:00 - [39] Originally by: Dahak2150 Originally by: Frug This is not the first and won't be the last time their laziness, carelessness and disorganization costs players time and/or money. And the OP wasn't lazy, careless, or disorganized? If anything, he's lazier as he tried to buy himself isk instead of earning it. Got what he deserved frankly, especially if he was stupid enough to use an insecure transaction method. It's ridiculous to expect him to scan the forums to search for a rule which is arbitrarily not listed on the official rules page. I certainly hope that you are never put in charge of a service I have to use, if you think this is how things should be done. The issue is not what you think about GTC -> isk sales. Stop muddling your issues together. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.15 00:43:00 - [40] Originally by: Frug It's ridiculous to expect him to scan the forums to search for a rule which is arbitrarily not listed on the official rules page. I certainly hope that you are never put in charge of a service I have to use, if you think this is how things should be done. The issue is not what you think about GTC -> isk sales. Stop muddling your issues together. Yea, it's pretty ridiculous that something called the "Character and Timecard Bazaar" could possibly have any information about Timecards, and that the 30 seconds it takes to look (not to mention that single click), is way too much to ask of anyone! It's amazing anyone can sell these with this amazingly complex system filled with tons of red tape. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Thicky McThick	Posted - 2008.02.15 00:47:00 - [41] Edited by: Thicky McThick on 15/02/2008 00:47:17 OP, have a dose of tough love, only the misguided or fellow chancers want to give you a hug. Post with your Alt and not your Main, 'cos I don't care about your Name.
Frug True Foundation R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.02.15 00:53:00 - [42] Edited by: Frug on 15/02/2008 00:53:46 Originally by: An Anarchyyt Yea, it's pretty ridiculous that something called the "Character and Timecard Bazaar" could possibly have any information about Timecards, and that the 30 seconds it takes to look (not to mention that single click), is way too much to ask of anyone! It's amazing anyone can sell these with this amazingly complex system filled with tons of red tape. It's amazing how forum *****s get so caught up in their forum whoring that they think things unrelated to forums belong in forums. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Vikarion Caldari United Heavens	Posted - 2008.02.15 00:59:00 - [43] Dude, you didn't get scammed by CCP...you scammed yourself. I've sold a couple GTCs, and, oddly enough, I did my research, possibly because I usually try to find the right way of doing something before doing it. So, you're out 500 mil. Big deal. Run some missions or buy a few more GTCs and sell them...the right way. --------
annoing Amarr MisFunk Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.15 01:01:00 - [44] Originally by: Zaren Namuras Despite me explaining that i did not know of this information, they refuse to give me my money back, thus making me unable to play the game to my satisfaction since i cant sell or buy stuff dock in 0.0 stations where i have ships. Care? Sorry, i'll just check my 'care bank account ....... nope, all empty, this must mean I dont care. Let me check my 'sympathy' wallet..... nope all empty too. I would gather, and this is just a guess you understand, that from all the negative posts in reply to your 'problem' no one actually gives a s*. Have a rather scrumdilliumptious day (with kind regards to ned flanders) Dwi Cymraig** According to the Pastafarian belief system, pirates are "absolute divine beings" and the original Pastafarians. Their image as "thieves and outcasts" is misinformation.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.15 01:02:00 - [45] Originally by: Frug It's amazing how forum ***s get so caught up in their forum whoring that they think things unrelated to forums belong in forums. "Character And Timecode Bazaar" "Want a character that can yarr? Has your account run out of time? Pick up a GTC for a dime. Advertise your character and timecode sales here!" Originally by:** CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Frug True Foundation R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.02.15 01:17:00 - [46] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Frug It's amazing how forum ***s get so caught up in their forum whoring that they think things unrelated to forums belong in forums. "Character And Timecode Bazaar" "Want a character that can yarr? Has your account run out of time? Pick up a GTC for a dime. Advertise your character and timecode sales here!" I repeat. It's amazing how forum *s can't even imagine that other people don't spend their time forum whoring. Allow me to hold your hand while I walk you through the process that might be followed by someone unlike yourself... Go to My Account. Click on Account Services. Click on the Sell Eve Time Codes button. Okay. Now I'm going to slow down for you here, because I think you may need some time to digest this. But some people don't click on that "forums" button over there. Really. Some people just play Eve to shoot things, not be forum ***s. Mmkay. Now... Now that said hypothetical mysterious non-forum-whoring person has discovered this GTC ->ISK transfer system he may wonder "can i do this and bypass their secure method?" Oh look, a "frequently asked questions" link. What does it say in there? - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2008.02.15 01:19:00 - [47] Originally by: Frug Originally by: Dahak2150 Originally by: Frug This is not the first and won't be the last time their laziness, carelessness and disorganization costs players time and/or money. And the OP wasn't lazy, careless, or disorganized? If anything, he's lazier as he tried to buy himself isk instead of earning it. Got what he deserved frankly, especially if he was stupid enough to use an insecure transaction method. It's ridiculous to expect him to scan the forums to search for a rule which is arbitrarily not listed on the official rules page. I certainly hope that you are never put in charge of a service I have to use, if you think this is how things should be done. The issue is not what you think about GTC -> isk sales. Stop muddling your issues together. If you're going to throw real world money at something without doing a little research, you deserve no sympathy. This is the internet, bad ** happens. A lot. If you can't be arsed to protect yourself, whatever happens is your fault. ---------------- Originally by:** "Cyberus" cause its has no sence anyway your brains is simply wont accept that anyway.
Loyal Servant Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.	Posted - 2008.02.15 01:22:00 - [48] DUDE! You sold cards outside of the sanctioned method and you got DIRTY ISK from isk farmers..... and you want your isk back? YOU SHOULD BE FRACKING BANNED FOR SUPPORTING FARMERS Have a nice day, I'm not at -500 million. So, why is ccp messing with my sig?
Guillame Herschel Gallente The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.02.15 01:29:00 - [49] Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 15/02/2008 01:29:36 Originally by: An Anarchyyt Yea, it's pretty ridiculous that something called the "Character and Timecard Bazaar" could possibly have any information about Timecards, and that the 30 seconds it takes to look (not to mention that single click), is way too much to ask of anyone! EVE forums are well-known for always having the latest, most up-to-date, and accurate information available on any topic you could imagine. Why, look at COAD for an example of how smart players regard the forums as a resource more valuable than gold, er, isk. Only barbarians avoid the forums. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.15 01:29:00 - [50] Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker In September 2007 GM Nova stated in the post with the title "Very important Notice to ETC traders" That selling GTC outside the secure way is illegal. It also states they will receive a warning and possibly loose their ISK. This post have been around for like 5 months now, and even if you are new to the ETC trade, it is usual to read the rules of the forums - which are always in the locked part of that forum. The rules of the forum? So his forum isk was removed? I hope he bought some forum modules with it before it was all gone.. No. CCPs rules need to be documented in the areas where they mean something to the people who dont use the forums. This has been a problem for a long time. Especially with exploit rules.
Stilt	Posted - 2008.02.15 02:24:00 - [51] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker In September 2007 GM Nova stated in the post with the title "Very important Notice to ETC traders" That selling GTC outside the secure way is illegal. It also states they will receive a warning and possibly loose their ISK. This post have been around for like 5 months now, and even if you are new to the ETC trade, it is usual to read the rules of the forums - which are always in the locked part of that forum. The rules of the forum? So his forum isk was removed? I hope he bought some forum modules with it before it was all gone.. No. CCPs rules need to be documented in the areas where they mean something to the people who dont use the forums. This has been a problem for a long time. Especially with exploit rules. Rubbish , it's the same old story of someone trying an exploit of anything to gain cash/isk. Ban him, and any other. NO sympathy let alone empathy here.
Eaterof Children	Posted - 2008.02.15 02:49:00 - [52] Edited by: Eaterof Children on 15/02/2008 02:50:11 I'm sorry, much as I am tempted to say "sucks to be you", I cannot. When you want to do something you haven't before, you read its manual, not a newspaper article. I.e., the FAQ, not the forum. If you didn't find the info you want, THEN you'd check the forum. But he did find the info... The guy read the instructions on CCP's site. End of story. Why on earth should he bother to check the forums when he has already checked the rules and they said "it's better to do it the secure way or else we won't be able to protect you" and NOT "it is not allowed, and we will prevent it"... Clear cut case, give the guy his iskies back, *UPDATE THE FAQ* and then from that time on no more taking back the actions, you trade unsecure we take action. Or even "using the unsecure method is not allowed" would be enough. Right now the OP feels cheated, and I'd believe rightly so, because he DID read the instructions (not the forums, which are generally a less important place to look for "static" info like rules and all that, and he still got shafted.
Balthasar Moreq	Posted - 2008.02.15 03:01:00 - [53] This dude read about the risks of using the unsecure method and still he sold his GTC's using it? No sympathy for ya buba, and don't expect much on these forums either.
Vested Interest	Posted - 2008.02.15 03:26:00 - [54] Will CCP take your isk away if you sell your GTC through the "secure" system to someone that bought said isk on the illegal market? I think we've had at least one thread for that but I don't recall that it was confirmed. In my mind this is why you have to use the secure system. Otherwise someone will buy your GTC with isk from Ebay and CCP will take it back.
Helen Hunts Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc Red Dragon Industries	Posted - 2008.02.15 05:07:00 - [55] Originally by: Vested Interest Will CCP take your isk away if you sell your GTC through the "secure" system to someone that bought said isk on the illegal market? I think we've had at least one thread for that but I don't recall that it was confirmed. In my mind this is why you have to use the secure system. Otherwise someone will buy your GTC with isk from Ebay and CCP will take it back. The Secure Method protects you and your money. If the other guy had dirty ISK, he gets hammered. The other guy getting hammered does not affect YOU. YOUR wallet will be fine. _______________________________ Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money. Any Questions?
Ikasu Gallente Scrutari The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.02.15 05:11:00 - [56] Originally by: Thicky McThick Originally by: Ikasu I'm with the OP on this one, that's a bit extreme, being so far in the whole playing the game is now practically impossible even though the faqs he read failed to state that such actions were illegal. "Ignorance of the Law is not a valid defense," this is true, but at the same time the fact that this was illegal was practically hidden. Some people read the Eula, the faqs, and never touch the forums. Hope somehow things work out. One timecard , you could say ok fair enough. Five and all the quoting, bleeting, protestations, the OP knew exactly what he was walking into. Of course some of you others doing the same will come here to defend, as it will prob impact on the other rule bending you do too, to earn your tainted isk and conversions into cash. I haven't kept up with this thread, but I will set this straight. I don't buy timecards or isk, and believe me i'd love to, but I don't have money. I barely have enough to play Eve. Please don't through around accusations, it's rude, and it makes an ass out of the both of us.
Taua Roqa Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.02.15 06:14:00 - [57] Originally by: Frug CCP is at fault for scattering their rules about in an uncoordinated manner and then expecting the OP to go to some forum and find a sticky to figure this out. This kind of idiocy is why I don't respect CCP. This is not the first and won't be the last time their laziness, carelessness and disorganization costs players time and/or money. +1. EvE is an amazing mmo and I simply can't find better but ccp and their escapades make me very -------------------------------------------- Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. mooooooo.
Viper ShizzIe Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2008.02.15 06:14:00 - [58] Originally by: DrAtomic The OP has a case. Since the internet lawyer says so, it must be true.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.15 06:17:00 - [59] [Giant Stone Head] Dum Dum want Gum Gum? [/Giant Stone Head] little Billy stuck his hand in the Piranna tank because he didn't care to take the time to read the sign Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Viliny principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.15 06:36:00 - [60] To be honest, i didn't know this either and if i were to be selling GTC's i would have probably sold them without the trading system to alliance members. I would have gone negative wallet status aswell if this post hadn't existed and i would have bought some GTC's for the sake of turning them to isk :P

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