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The old 8 million ISK to avoid war decs, still going on, still no word

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Nexa Necis The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.02.15 05:09:00 - [1] I started a post about a corp using alts to create 4 corps costing them 8 million ISK. What they do is jump to whichever of the 4 corps isn't dec'd by us. As corps are limited to 3 slots open, they created a 4th so they can corp jump to avoid war, while still maintaining the benefits of a corporation. Unfortunately the last thread devolved into a "you're a lame pirate go pick on someone who wants to pvp" and "oh boy it's so nice when pirates whine!" flamefest, that it quickly soured. So lets keep on topic and save the personal opinions about the behind the scenes politics and motives and stick to the matter at hand. I have petitioned to get a GM response. Apparently it's been escalated up the latter and a decision is still yet to be handed down. Personally, it seems a bit fishy to me. You're basically not incurring any further costs or suffering any consequences or risks of being in a corp, but you can still participate in the benefits of being in a corp. Check out the picture. I have been decing them repeatedly on my alt and the second the war email goes out, they immediately jump. They assign no roles so they can jump ship immediately. Corp Jumpage! I have gotten several convos and emails since the last post was locked. I just thought I would make a new one so it's easier to update posting here or just linking people to the thread.
Ikasu Gallente Scrutari The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.02.15 05:35:00 - [2] If you petitioned it their probably gonna take the heat somehow, but it seems kind of obsessive to keep deccing them like that. What are you so...jump at them for? If their so desperate to avoid a war with you that they risk a bannable offense then they can't be very good targets. I'd drop re-deccing them and let CCP handle it. Last I checked corp hopping was against the rules right? Either CCP will do something about it, or they wont.
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.02.15 06:10:00 - [3] Pity CCP takes no hard stance against corp hopping. In the meantime , you can still try to suicide gank them Originally by: ivan draco we didnt want your post anyway
Riho Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.02.15 06:47:00 - [4] seems like a framer corp... those do that ---------------------------------- This is Me
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.02.15 06:55:00 - [5] Nah , farmers react to wardecs by creating another corp , that still leaves a good day of fighting usually (unless they drop to NPC corp in the meantime) but some no longer jump corps for some reason (warned by GMs ? can it be ?) and sometimes try to defend themselves. Originally by: ivan draco we didnt want your post anyway
DEATHsyphon IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.02.15 09:10:00 - [6] People Never switch corps when war deced , But yeah You caa petition it and such it is an exploit -------------------- I'm not not going to pod you!
Armadaus Baldwin Combat and Mining Utility Inc. Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2008.02.15 09:18:00 - [7] AFAIK, it's not an exploit currently. I don't recall CCP saying anything about switching Corps. Just corps alliance hopping to avoid them. I could be wrong though. I do think that you should not be able to avoid a WarDec by any means, but I doubt that would happen.
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.15 09:24:00 - [8] Originally by: Armadaus Baldwin AFAIK, it's not an exploit currently. I don't recall CCP saying anything about switching Corps. Just corps alliance hopping to avoid them. this *Warning! Sig ahead!* Bounty: Jonny JoJo
mercspy Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.02.15 11:35:00 - [9] Edited by: mercspy on 15/02/2008 11:37:48 oh here we go again you don't give up do you what you are doing now is classed as harassment you have been doing it for last 2 weeks. you are basically harassing indy players non stop because they jumped corp because they were war decked? you are pathetic grow up, And so what if they jump corps they don't want to pay for a game and sit in a station all day they want to play the game how they want to and not how you want to. leave them alone and go deck a pvp corp you are pathetic don't you have anything better to do? I also do think this can be petitioned against you as Game harassment.
Esswer Loc Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.02.15 11:42:00 - [10] Edited by: Esswer Loc on 15/02/2008 11:44:41 Face the danger, don't bail the corps just because you are war-decced.

Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2008.02.15 11:48:00 - [11] Originally by: mercspy Edited by: mercspy on 15/02/2008 11:37:48 oh here we go again you don't give up do you what you are doing now is classed as harassment you have been doing it for last 2 weeks. you are basically harassing indy players non stop because they jumped corp because they were war decked? you are pathetic grow up, And so what if they jump corps they don't want to pay for a game and sit in a station all day they want to play the game how they want to and not how you want to. leave them alone and go deck a pvp corp you are pathetic don't you have anything better to do? I also do think this can be petitioned against you as Game harassment. Post with your main. Violence isn't the answer, it is the question. The answer is yes.
Agor Dirdonen	Posted - 2008.02.15 12:39:00 - [12] Originally by: mercspy Edited by: mercspy on 15/02/2008 11:37:48 oh here we go again you don't give up do you what you are doing now is classed as harassment you have been doing it for last 2 weeks. you are basically harassing indy players non stop because they jumped corp because they were war decked? you are pathetic grow up, And so what if they jump corps they don't want to pay for a game and sit in a station all day they want to play the game how they want to and not how you want to. leave them alone and go deck a pvp corp you are pathetic don't you have anything better to do? I also do think this can be petitioned against you as Game harassment. As soon as the OP says they mine/sell/operate in the same area as he does and are lowering his profits (less roids, lower prices on market, ...) so he wants to remove some competition, it's no longer harassment and is fully within game rules. On the other hand, repeatedly switching corps to avoid a wardec can be petitioned I believe (not for 1 or 2 switches but for multiple ones it is).
Flashh Gorden Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.15 12:49:00 - [13] We take great pleasure in dealing with Empire griefers and were good at it too. Dont change corps hire us instead.
Nama Saya Chickens with an Attitude No Law	Posted - 2008.02.15 12:56:00 - [14] I think it goes both ways and therefore I think it should not be an exploit. You want to war dec someone. That person does not want to be war deced. It's his right not to be at war imo. If he won't mind, he would fight you or send some mercs. You can say that he hops 1 time to another corp, and you war dec him, that your war dec is harressment. They can all go to an NPC corp and still mine in 'your' belts (if this is the case) and you can't do anything about it. I can imagen that constant making new corps, waiting again for 24 hours, that these people have no fun playing EVE. Just for the record, I give here my opinion. Don't think for a second that i'm against wars!
Neddy Fox	Posted - 2008.02.15 13:40:00 - [15] LOL.. let's all say to the burglars we don't want them to break into their houses, and tell all countries we don't want war, so they won't attack us. That's not how it works. Greed, revenge, all sort of things cause wars. If you're attacked, you fight back and win, or loose. If you don't want to be wardecced, grab your gear and move 25 systems. Don't use exploits to avoid tem.
Agent Li Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.02.15 14:10:00 - [16] You don't even have to jump corps. If each person has a main and two alts, they only need to make three corps - one for each character. If one corp gets wardecced, all they have to do is dock and log on with their alt, and play in the other corp until you get tired of doing nothing. That, in itself, isn't even jumping corps. And where would that leave the corp that made the wardec? ------------------ Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire.
Ernesto Hoost	Posted - 2008.02.15 15:11:00 - [17] Originally by: mercspy Edited by: mercspy on 15/02/2008 11:37:48 oh here we go again you don't give up do you what you are doing now is classed as harassment you have been doing it for last 2 weeks. you are basically harassing indy players non stop because they jumped corp because they were war decked? you are pathetic grow up, And so what if they jump corps they don't want to pay for a game and sit in a station all day they want to play the game how they want to and not how you want to. leave them alone and go deck a pvp corp you are pathetic don't you have anything better to do? I also do think this can be petitioned against you as Game harassment. I think we found one of the spineless little war dodgers. Don't join a player corp if you don't want to be wardecced. Your little farming op has been busted
M'ing Pai The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.02.15 15:20:00 - [18] What I think people are missing is this: it's not just that they're jumping corps. What is really going on is this corp, when initially wardecced, immediately created a corp with a placeholder alt, call "blah No PVP1", and everyone jumped to it. When we wardecced that corp, they created "blah no PVP2" with an NEW placeholder alt, and jumped to that, leaving their original corp and "blah PVP1" intact. When we dec the second alt corp, they create "blah no PVP3" with a fresh placeholder alt, and jump to that one. Net score? They have 4 corps now, each chaired by a placeholder alt. Since the maximum outgoing wardecs is 3, TRAPS drops the wardec on the original corp to dec "blah no PVP3", and they immediately jump to the original corp. So, for 8 million, these guys can continually jump to whichever of their 4 corps we're not wardeccing at the time, and avoid war for NO FURTHER COST than the initial 8 million investment, while TRAPS has to pay 2 million each wardec. It's a BLATANT exploitation of the game mechanics to avoid war. Ok, for you naysayers, if it's NOT an exploit, letÆs have EVERY corp do it. What will happen? NO MORE WAR for ANYONE who doesn't want to fight. No one is FORCED to pay the piper, and can say/do whatever they want and not need fear the consequences of their actions towards other corps in the form of a wardec. Non-consentual PVP is part of this game, and that is so by design. If you don't like it, go play My Little Pony online or something. This "tactic" they're using allows them to avoid non-consensual pvp altogether, and is therefore CLEARLY an abuse of game mechanics, i.e. EXPLOIT.
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2008.02.15 16:07:00 - [19] Originally by: M'ing Pai Non-consentual PVP is part of this game No it isn't, it never was. It's just that somebody has found a way to non-consent that you don't like much. If they didn't use this method, they could use any of the other dozen methods of non-consenting that are available. 1. NPC corps. 2. Playing on the alts. 3. Playing Team Fortress. There's 3 really easy to do ones right there. While I appreciate what they are doing is lame and whatnot, it isn't lame if they are are doing specifically to wind you up. They know you're hating it, and doing what they are doing is far more headache than simply NPC corping, so I would suggest that they have TRAPS by the balls and are squeezing in ways that hurt you more than it hurts them. Not all war starts and ends with F1 to F8. I'd stop playing into their little game and do something else in that situation. They're winning the war they are conducting on their terms. -- And with this post, I scent this thread. Mitnal will be along shortly. Modbutton in one hand, tissue in the other.
Swamp Kitsune	Posted - 2008.02.15 16:15:00 - [20] I think the only reason your examples aren't very based for this argument is because all 3 of your examples don't continually cost TRAP's 2 mil every single time :P.

Kitten Celeste	Posted - 2008.02.15 16:18:00 - [21] If you've petitioned it, then why ask if it is an exploit here? Whilst I agree it is annoying, your stance betrays a blatent self-interest, in that you are hoping enough people reply to this thread agreeing with you that CCP will declare it as such, purely because your quasi-referendum has decided it is an exploit? For the record, whether you, your corp, your sockpuppets and all others posting here think it is an exploit it's irrelevant. What is relevant is what CCP decides, not the self-elected forum politicians. If CCP decides it is an exploit then fair enough, we'll abide with that decision. But what if CCP decide it isn't, will you be big enough to swallow your pride and abide with their decision? From a storyline viewpoint, isn't a war against the corporation, not individuals? Seems as if you want to make it personal with certain people whom you have taken a dislike; surely if the corp disbands you have won? Maybe a solution could be if a corp wants to disband while decced (sic), that they should have to pay a fee to Concord. In conclusion, I don't like it any more than you do, but I think it's a real shame that you feel the forums are some kind of platform for canvassing CCP into doing what you want. Finally, a note to the flamers that have/will try to shout at Nexa. Please, make a constructive response; saying to Nexa "ZOMG U ARE A NOOB" and "Why don't you dec RAK/Muffins etc" isn't very helpful. And besides, Nexa enjoys griefing (he's very honest about it) and fair play to him, plus the fact TRAPS probably couldn't handle Muffins et al, if they could, don't you think they would have tried by now? So good luck with petition Nexa, I sincerley mean that, and if it doesn't go your way, I'm sure you'll be man enough to go along with it.
Alanna Kereshkova	Posted - 2008.02.15 16:24:00 - [22] In a rational world you'd be declaring war for a damned good reason not just paying 2 million ISK to shoot at someone. You'll probably say you did have a good reason. Game mechanics being what they are it's impossible to put forward a good case for declaring war and have it ratified before hosilities can commence. CCP would need to hire a great deal of extra staff in order to do so. However, the whole point of one sided views is they are just that. Can the OP or anyone from his corp see this from the other side? Was it not obvious from the second time these guys jumped to a new corp that they didn't want to PvP? Don't get me wrong here, I'm not defending what they did, it does indeed seem like a flawed game mechanic. Yet there are always at least 16k+ players online. CCP probably has a player base that's four times that amount. Why not go out and war dec another corp if you simply want someone to shoot at? For the record I've been in an allince that's been war decced by another three times in a row. I didn't jump corps or whatever, yet I hardly played eve during that time. Fun part is I do have a life outside of this game so it wasn't that bad. Bottom line. We PAY to play, not PAY to win. No-one should be forced to play any game the way another person wants them to. They call that one determinism. Before any of you decide to flame what I've just said, sit back and think about it for a bit. You may have to do that from time to time. You may also have to write in non-TXT speak and learn self humility and consideration for others, particularly their feelings.
Ammortius	Posted - 2008.02.15 16:30:00 - [23] how about stop whining and beat them at thier own game? Whats to stop YOU from making an ALT corp and wardeccing 3 more of thier alt corps. for petes sake they've already out foxed you without firing a shot
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.15 16:32:00 - [24] Posting in support of the OP. Its insane that in this 'world of the future'.. giant fleets of warships crewed by the some of the finest pilots and crew the galaxy can produce, are brought to a shuddering halt, by an administrative paper shuffle bodge. "power down the guns captain, they changed their name from evilpwnzer1 to evilpwnzer2" Its a further farce in a long line of farces in this game Hopefully CCP will see sense and deal with this. In the meantime, I would create a 2nd corp, and put some combat ready alts in it, which can put the pressure on the ones not wardecced. Whilst I have some sympathy for tru industrial players seeling to avoid PVP, this is a pvp game, and if you want the benefits of being in a corp.. you gotta take the downside. SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.15 16:34:00 - [25] Edited by: Le Skunk on 15/02/2008 16:35:18 Originally by: Ammortius how about stop whining and beat them at thier own game? Whats to stop YOU from making an ALT corp and wardeccing 3 more of thier alt corps. for petes sake they've already out foxed you without firing a shot Because any one in their right mind can see that that is a farce. Whilst it works fine as a stop gap unitll CCP sort their mess out - what then if they create another 3 corps... do you then creat another alt corp to dec them. And if they create another 9 corps... or 18... etc etc The situation needs sorting out by ccp, not further exploited. SKUNK
Agor Dirdonen	Posted - 2008.02.15 16:49:00 - [26] Edited by: Agor Dirdonen on 15/02/2008 16:49:00 Originally by: Nama Saya I think it goes both ways and therefore I think it should not be an exploit. You want to war dec someone. That person does not want to be war deced. It's his right not to be at war imo. If he won't mind, he would fight you or send some mercs. If CCP never meant that a corp could be decced without them wanting it too, why didn't they implement the 'mutual' option before any war could go live? No, they implemented it such that a war can be started by one party only without the other party being able to do anything about it. If you then pay attention to how fast CCP called the 'iMune' alliance loophole an exploit (which was started to get a corp fast out of a war dec), you should be able to grasp that CCP wants it the way it is now. I haven't seen or heard about any corp that actually got warned or banned (can't really imagine) for corp hopping but there have been dev remarks that it's not acceptable behaviour.
Karentaki Gallente Combat-Evolved	Posted - 2008.02.15 16:54:00 - [27] I also support the op. Our corp's been war decced before, but rather than running and hiding like a bunch of wow-tards, we stood our ground - admittedly they still scored some blows against us, but we did just as much damage to them. If you want to spend your whole time mining, then at least get some PvP'ers in the corp who can help out if things get ugly. Ever seen a country without a military? Exactly the same applies to corps in EVE - stand your ground or surrender. You should never be able to make it impossible for someone to harm you simply by the use of alts and corp-hopping tactics. (No - suicide ganking is not a risk since the cost far outweighs the reward in 99% of cases) Seriously - if you want to play a game without any risk, then play an FPS or something where you can respawn when you fail miserably at surviving. If I'm not mistaken CCP have already deemed this an exploit and people have been locked in corps for doing just this, but I may be wrong. If I am wrong, CCP, please 'exploitify' this ASAP for the good of all the non-wow-tards in EVE. Also, could everyone PLEASE stop posting with alts, it only shows off just what cowards you are that you won't even show your faces on the forums to defend your actions. Also, TRAPS FTW, keep up the good work ====== Proud pilot of the 'Drainpipe of Doom'
Zhang Ramses Chaos From Order	Posted - 2008.02.15 16:56:00 - [28] Posting in support of the OP. This is iMune all over again, just on a worse scale.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.02.15 17:25:00 - [29] Originally by: Nexa Necis What they do is jump to whichever of the 4 corps isn't dec'd by us. As corps are limited to 3 slots open, they created a 4th so they can corp jump to avoid war, while still maintaining the benefits of a corporation. ... I have petitioned to get a GM response. Apparently it's been escalated up the latter and a decision is still yet to be handed down. ... Personally, it seems a bit fishy to me. You're basically not incurring any further costs or suffering any consequences or risks of being in a corp, but you can still participate in the benefits of being in a corp. ... They assign no roles so they can jump ship immediately. Benefits from corp with no roles? It means no corp hangar, at least... Jumping from corp to corp means also that they get no benefit from having a POS, they wouldn't be able to refuel them at no risk... I can't understand those guys, what are the benefits other than 'countergriefing' (I'm not saying you are griefing) to repeated war decs? They're nerfing themselves, I can't understand this!! All they keep is? The ability to shoot each other? And it's a good thing that GMs look into this case, maybe they can come to a final decision on how wars should work and how you should evade, or not evade, or have the ability not to be wardecced all the time or not. This would settle the question once for all! -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Snake Assault	Posted - 2008.02.15 17:35:00 - [30] While I find it lame, it still seems weird that you guys complain over 3 wars that you've won. Everytime they gave up the war decced corp they're basically saying "ok, you win. gf." So, technically, you've won the war. Congratulations. Doesn't change the fact that it's lame, though.



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