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The old 8 million ISK to avoid war decs, still going on, still no word

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Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.02.18 19:31:00 - [121] Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale I am a pirate and i have bought cassandra for make money in "peace" when things get hot or when i want to relax, and i know six ppl (pirate) that do the same as me... so you FAIL totally. You know, fighting faction NPCs while running missions doesn't qualify you as a pirate. Just a FYI. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
coffeecigarettebeer	Posted - 2008.02.19 00:35:00 - [122] Originally by: Ki An Pretty smart to create four alts with corporate management and swap corp when you get decced, innit? No wait... it's not smart, it's exploiting. Pretty smart to create four alts with corporate management to keep the pursued corp decced, innit? No wait... it's not smart, it's exploiting.
Ernesto Hoost	Posted - 2008.02.19 00:47:00 - [123] Edited by: Ernesto Hoost on 19/02/2008 00:48:42 Originally by: coffeecigarettebeer Pretty smart to create four alts with corporate management to keep the pursued corp decced, innit? No wait... it's not smart, it's exploiting. Create another alt why don't you, and run from a war. Maybe your next one will have a face. Wardodgers, this is the new EVE online. Pretty graphics, farmers and isk sellers. Good job CCP, great game for the unemployed to supplement their income. Might as well call it "hello farmer online island special" And off topic, lol at the alliance tournament. Lord knows what direction CCP are taking these days, but the old EVE would appear to be lost forever
Meldrynn skank Minmatar	Posted - 2008.02.19 01:10:00 - [124] Edited by: Meldrynn skank on 19/02/2008 01:21:08 Originally by: Cassandra Beckinsale I am a pirate and i have bought cassandra for make money in "peace" when things get hot or when i want to relax, and i know six ppl (pirate) that do the same as me... so you FAIL totally. I don't believe you. Cassandra was bought by the owner of Fozzi/Meloku because the day after Fozzi bid 2.5 bill for her on 16-10-07 he was complaining about the Character transfer not working. Fozzi and Meloku are both in Fozzi Bear Productions which doesn't sound like a Pirate Corp to me. Cassandra is more than likely your out of Corp freighter pilot that you use to haul stuff safely/mine in Empire if your Corp gets decced.Which is the right thing to do and not an exploit. Am I wrong?
doctorstupid2 Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.19 01:17:00 - [125] Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 19/02/2008 01:18:06 Originally by: coffeecigarettebeer Originally by: Wind Ictiva the mining, missioning and trading in this game are a means to an end. not the goal. It is the the goal for the majority of the players. You then achieved your lofty goal of dragging magical space rocks from one window to another and 'right click -> buy this' when you completed the tutorial. Without people there to blow you up you've already beat the game and should give me all your stuff on the way out the door. You're absolutely the worst alt troll ever. MOVIES: Deadspace Deadspace 2
coffeecigarettebeer	Posted - 2008.02.19 01:51:00 - [126] Originally by: doctorstupid2 Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 19/02/2008 01:18:06 Originally by: coffeecigarettebeer Originally by: Wind Ictiva the mining, missioning and trading in this game are a means to an end. not the goal. It is the the goal for the majority of the players. You then achieved your lofty goal of dragging magical space rocks from one window to another and 'right click -> buy this' when you completed the tutorial. Without people there to blow you up you've already beat the game and should give me all your stuff on the way out the door. You're absolutely the worst alt troll ever. Pirates need reminding that the majority of players are actually happy mining, missioning and trading and should feel that they are not wrong for doing so. Who are you or anyone else to tell them what their goal is? You are absolutely the worst pointless troll ever.
Ernesto Hoost	Posted - 2008.02.19 02:06:00 - [127] Originally by: coffeecigarettebeer Pirates need reminding that the majority of players are actually happy mining, missioning and trading and should feel that they are not wrong for doing so. Who are you or anyone else to tell them what their goal is? You are absolutely the worst pointless troll ever. God bless you for being happy at mining. The whole point in making isk in this game is so that you can fund your pvp activities. This point seems to be lost on you. Isk sellers would argue of course. Enjoy looking at your virtual wallet, but you are paying for a game, and it would appear that somewhere along the line, you forgot what you were paying for Btw, your name aptly explains your attitude.
coffeecigarettebeer	Posted - 2008.02.19 02:11:00 - [128] Edited by: coffeecigarettebeer on 19/02/2008 02:11:30 Originally by: Ernesto Hoost Originally by: coffeecigarettebeer Pirates need reminding that the majority of players are actually happy mining, missioning and trading and should feel that they are not wrong for doing so. Who are you or anyone else to tell them what their goal is? You are absolutely the worst pointless troll ever. God bless you for being happy at mining. The whole point in making isk in this game is so that you can fund your pvp activities. This point seems to be lost on you. Isk sellers would argue of course. Enjoy looking at your virtual wallet, but you are paying for a game, and it would appear that somewhere along the line, you forgot what you were paying for Btw, your name aptly explains your attitude. That is not the whole point of making isk in this game. It might be for you perhaps. It is up to the individual to decide. Perhaps my name should be evecoffeecigarettebeer. Not necessarily in that order.
Hexperience Amarr The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.02.19 02:24:00 - [129] Originally by: coffeecigarettebeer Edited by: coffeecigarettebeer on 19/02/2008 02:11:30 Originally by: Ernesto Hoost Originally by: coffeecigarettebeer Pirates need reminding that the majority of players are actually happy mining, missioning and trading and should feel that they are not wrong for doing so. Who are you or anyone else to tell them what their goal is? You are absolutely the worst pointless troll ever. God bless you for being happy at mining. The whole point in making isk in this game is so that you can fund your pvp activities. This point seems to be lost on you. Isk sellers would argue of course. Enjoy looking at your virtual wallet, but you are paying for a game, and it would appear that somewhere along the line, you forgot what you were paying for Btw, your name aptly explains your attitude. That is not the whole point of making isk in this game. It might be for you perhaps. It is up to the individual to decide. Perhaps my name should be evecoffeecigarettebeer. Not necessarily in that order. Keep on topic or create another thread to discuss "The meaning of eve" in.
Ikasu Gallente Scrutari The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.02.19 02:26:00 - [130] Originally by: Ernesto Hoost Originally by: coffeecigarettebeer Pirates need reminding that the majority of players are actually happy mining, missioning and trading and should feel that they are not wrong for doing so. Who are you or anyone else to tell them what their goal is? You are absolutely the worst pointless troll ever. God bless you for being happy at mining. The whole point in making isk in this game is so that you can fund your pvp activities. This point seems to be lost on you. Isk sellers would argue of course. Enjoy looking at your virtual wallet, but you are paying for a game, and it would appear that somewhere along the line, you forgot what you were paying for Btw, your name aptly explains your attitude. I disagree. PVP, or at least ship vs ship pbvp, is NOT the main point in the game. Building your wallet, becoming famous, or simply having fun with missions. It's an MMO, and the fact is there are thousands of ways to play the game. I've meet people who played for years and never even WENT to low sec. To place counter to your logic, I say the point of Eve is to maintain your money and become rich, reaching the larger ships and advancing futher. PVP is only a means to this goal, and isn't even a required one. Some people only PVP to protect their assests or themselves, and these people rarely go out for a fight. Are you saying this people are playing the game wrong? Why? Because you say so? You are fail. -------------------------------------------------- My post does not represent views of my Alliance. Eve is different, in Eve there are actual Heroes and Villains. Build your Legacy!

doctorstupid2 Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.19 02:30:00 - [131] Originally by: coffeecigarettebeer Originally by: doctorstupid2 Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 19/02/2008 01:18:06 Originally by: coffeecigarettebeer Originally by: Wind Ictiva the mining, missioning and trading in this game are a means to an end. not the goal. It is the the goal for the majority of the players. You then achieved your lofty goal of dragging magical space rocks from one window to another and 'right click -> buy this' when you completed the tutorial. Without people there to blow you up you've already beat the game and should give me all your stuff on the way out the door. You're absolutely the worst alt troll ever. Pirates need reminding that the majority of players are actually happy mining, missioning and trading and should feel that they are not wrong for doing so. Who are you or anyone else to tell them what their goal is? You are absolutely the worst pointless troll ever. It was not I that stated the goals of others, in fact, it was you. I simply pointed out that that goal is achieved in full in the tutorial. MOVIES: Deadspace Deadspace 2
Analta	Posted - 2008.02.19 12:50:00 - [132] Originally by: Alanee'a Unakarakta corp hopping is lame. war deccing ain't griefing. game mechanics are broken if avoiding war is so easy. i'll send you 8 mil isk to keep on deccin' -ala Could also be said that making war is too easy. Yes we (care-bears) can skip out of war if we want but there seems to be rather too much war against PvE corps, there is no risk to the PvPer (or so small as to be worthless) yet huge potential rewards. Sure its a PvP game, I know that, yet I still enjoy playing, Pie Rats should have the risk vs reward system too rather than just deccing who they feel like and getting away with it. Solution... no idea but at the moment the balance has been swung to far in the Pie Rats favour. Dec who you want, kill who you want and if the enemy is too strong for you either don't log in or drop the dec. That isn't risk thats just having money to burn. Make the war dec fee meaningful, 2 million isk per dec thats stupid, I make that off one mission. What I'd really like to see, personally, is being unable to to dec corps that have high standings to an NPC corp that the Pie Rat corp has high standing to (or make it cost significantly more, you're buying off concord and the NPC corps) and if you dec a corp in hi-sec that has big standing with the NPCs who control that space you flag to them too... Unbalanced surely but it'd be nice to see all the Pie Rats go bang for a change. Bottom line is this game would be boring as hell for PvPers if there was no-one but them playing, and pointless as hell for PvEers if there was no-one to buy their products/mins. (They say it wouldn't but then how many 'Corporate Pirates' only attack other Player Pirate Corps?) This game may be non-consensual PvP but its made of its lesser parts, doing to much to hinder one part of the player base will affect other parts negatively too.
Analta	Posted - 2008.02.19 13:05:00 - [133] Originally by: Ki An Anyway, all your points are stupid and they are not even closely comparable to spending 8 million isk and then be immune to war decs. Try again, or don't, but there's no way around that this is an exploit of game mechanics. Hopefully CCP will do something sooner rather than later, but these threads are necessary for it to happen at all I am afraid. UH - FAIL... They didn't pay 8Misk to be immune to war deccing... They paid 8Misk to be immune to the Pie Rats...
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.02.19 13:58:00 - [134] Originally by: Analta UH - FAIL... They didn't pay 8Misk to be immune to war deccing... They paid 8Misk to be immune to the Pie Rats... What? They are effectively immune to war deccing. The pirate equivalent of this exploit would be to be able to pay 8 million isk and have our targets jettisoned from a station any time we want. My guess is you wouldn't like that. And, what the hell is a Pie Rat? Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.19 14:12:00 - [135] Originally by: Ki An And, what the hell is a Pie Rat? Small, furry mammal that eats pastry desserts?
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.02.19 14:26:00 - [136] Originally by: Dianeces Small, furry mammal that eats pastry desserts? Like this? Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.19 14:29:00 - [137] Originally by: Ki An Like this? Precisely.
Analta	Posted - 2008.02.19 17:33:00 - [138] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Analta UH - FAIL... They didn't pay 8Misk to be immune to war deccing... They paid 8Misk to be immune to the Pie Rats... What? They are effectively immune to war deccing. The pirate equivalent of this exploit would be to be able to pay 8 million isk and have our targets jettisoned from a station any time we want. My guess is you wouldn't like that. And, what the hell is a Pie Rat? A rat that eats Pies... like doh! But no, you can war dec who the hell you like just don't expect the target to remain a viable target. Persoanlly I don't care two hoots, I'm an alt with 5k ISK and haven't moved from my starter station since I was created. And my main (which it isn't difficult to find out) has been war decced quite often in her corp, but has yet to move. If the worst comes to the worst she can just play an alt or a different game. Basically once the game stops being fun I leave. Being a permanent target for some idiot who can't kill another PvPer so must resort to killing unskilled/unfitted PvEers is not fun. Be that as it may in five wars with my mains corp I have lost precisely one ship... and that was a t1 hauler with t1 mods lost to my own stupidity (went into a gate camp) and not to those who decced me, a savvy player IMO can avoid being attacked by anyone but suicide griefers in empire with ease.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.02.19 17:47:00 - [139] Originally by: Analta Be that as it may in five wars with my mains corp I have lost precisely one ship... and that was a t1 hauler with t1 mods lost to my own stupidity (went into a gate camp) and not to those who decced me, a savvy player IMO can avoid being attacked by anyone but suicide griefers in empire with ease. So why corp-hop? Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Analta	Posted - 2008.02.19 17:58:00 - [140] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Analta Be that as it may in five wars with my mains corp I have lost precisely one ship... and that was a t1 hauler with t1 mods lost to my own stupidity (went into a gate camp) and not to those who decced me, a savvy player IMO can avoid being attacked by anyone but suicide griefers in empire with ease. So why corp-hop? No idea, never done so, never will. I think the game (not the rules) should be changed to make it harder to corp hop while under a war declaration. But if that change is made I think it also ought to be more dangerous for a Pie Rat to make war. Maybe hire able NPC Mercs would make the job harder (pay in LP to stop ISK buyers paying for it?), I don't know, but at the moment hi-sec piracy is far to easy and the potential rewards are far to high (not the Pie Rats fault true). While it is true that the game is PvP based it is obviously designed for more people than just the PvPers, if the game is to continue being successful then something needs to make sure that the Pie Rats (and pirates) have the same base level risk = reward that everyone else does. At the moment that isn't the case and as more war avoiding tactics are closed off the balance is swinging more and more toward the vocal minority.

Das Brute Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.02.20 00:20:00 - [141] Nonconsensual PvP is correct, but so is Nonconsensual evasion. Just because someone starts a fight, that means the other party can't run if they know they'll lose? I despise ISK farmers, however if you have to chase them corp to corp, so be it. There are plenty of suicide gankers out there ready to make an isk or 3. They get paid to lose ships that concord reimburses, it's a game mechanic, so STFU and play the game. You've lost, accept it lol. They have their corp core stabs in all low slots, if you cant find a way to kill them, seriously, you need to start training your industry skills.
Nexa Necis The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.02.20 01:00:00 - [142] Originally by: Analta if the game is to continue being successful then something needs to make sure that the Pie Rats (and pirates) have the same base level risk = reward that everyone else does. This is my point. They have evaded all risk and get to reap the rewards of having a corporation in place. I am a bit surprised that it's taking them so long to come up with a decision, but better to take their time than flip-flop a bit. I just gotta remember to log my alt in to put through the war decs on their alt corps.
sneakybustard	Posted - 2008.02.20 01:38:00 - [143] you people still crying about that? maybe thinking whining helps to get ccp attention? lol pierats..
Vikarion Caldari United Heavens	Posted - 2008.02.20 01:56:00 - [144] What needs to be understood is that Nexa isn't asking for some new rule. The fact is that CCP explicitly destroyed a very similar tactic quite recently - iMune - with the clear implication that joining a corp was and is intended to make you vulnerable to war-decs. Now a few players have come up with a way to do basically the same thing, only without the publicity. The fact that it costs them 8 million ISK is irrelevant - iMune was a hassle as well, and it got zapped. The point is that corporations are supposed to be vulnerable to war-decs, and therefore all the players who choose to be in a corp. NPC corps exist for those who want a very risk-free environment, or those who are tired of war. The trade-off for the less risk is the reduced cooperation and opportunity for joint profit. Now, I would also like to point out that flaming Nexa for being a hi-sec pirate is both pointless and rather rude. People have a right to play as they wish within the rules, and that protects Nexa as much as it protects me, with my "mission & mine all day" hedonistic carebear lifestyle. If you think the rules of the game should be changed, post it in a separate thread, with more reasons then "I hate how people can shoot my ships!" or "I think people should be forced to undock with their modules offline!". I swear, I see more whiners every day I play. Now returning to the topic at hand...in my personal opinion, CCP already made the rules for this when iMune became an exploit. Now it needs to be enforced. --------
coffeecigarettebeer	Posted - 2008.02.20 03:18:00 - [145] Originally by: Ki An The pirate equivalent of this exploit would be to be able to pay 8 million isk and have our targets jettisoned from a station any time we want. My guess is you wouldn't like that.
Quelque Chose	Posted - 2008.02.20 03:42:00 - [146] Originally by: Vikarion What needs to be understood is that Nexa isn't asking for some new rule. The fact is that CCP explicitly destroyed a very similar tactic quite recently - iMune - with the clear implication that joining a corp was and is intended to make you vulnerable to war-decs. Eh... that could be argued if you wanted to. The dev posting on that is pretty limited to the specific act of alliance- hopping, which varies a good bit from this situation when you look at the specifics. Probably the most significant difference to my eyes is that joining and then leaving the alliance actually cancels the dec, which if I understand it correctly causes the aggressing corp to pay for a week of war and in fact only receive 24 hours -- that's not the case here. In this case, the aggressor gets a worthless dec but it does last the full week and denies the aggressed parties access to that specific corp for the duration of the dec. More importantly, the alliance- hopping exploit can be used to successfully defend a POS at no cost; this particular stratagem can not, in fact it would seem to reduce your chances of hanging onto a POS considerably. In other words, a corp that is actually reaping the significant benefits of incorporation doesn't stand to gain anything from such activities. Given that there are plenty of other activities ingame that, to put it kindly, "vigorously and creatively exercise" game mechanics in surprising ways (escrow scam, "lofty" scam, et al) and which are either countenanced or actively encouraged by the devs and community I can't say for sure that the outcome of this petition is assured. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.
Tiny Tom	Posted - 2008.02.20 04:14:00 - [147] Originally by: Nexa Necis This is my point. They have evaded all risk and get to reap the rewards of having a corporation in place. While I agree in principle, let me put this question to you: what are the rewards they are currently reaping? If I were to bet, I'd bet that it comes down to a convenient chat channel and shared facilities (one or more corp lockers). These are benefits to be sure, but I don't see why these necessarily have to be tied to war decs. Let's put it another way: what do you think people should be able to get in return for accepting vulnerabilities to war decs. I see the multi-corp plan as an exploit, but I also think it's a little silly that people have to sign up to war dec vulnerability for rather simple conveniences that have little direct relation. To be sure, there are other things you can do with a corp that you can't do as a gang, but there are a number of small industrial corps who do not wamt or cannot take advantage of these benefits. Originally by: Nexa Necis I just gotta remember to log my alt in to put through the war decs on their alt corps. Personally, I think I'd drop all the war decs except for one on a back-up corp. Then, I'd wait a long time. When I think they might have forgotten that the backup had a dec, I'd start declaring against the corps to herd them into the one with the sleeper dec. Finally, wait until a lot of ships are out and strike. Wow, they're going to take away my tummy symbol. ;)
Vikarion Caldari United Heavens	Posted - 2008.02.20 04:51:00 - [148] Originally by: Quelque Chose Eh... that could be argued if you wanted to. The dev posting on that is pretty limited to the specific act of alliance- hopping, which varies a good bit from this situation when you look at the specifics. Probably the most significant difference to my eyes is that joining and then leaving the alliance actually cancels the dec, which if I understand it correctly causes the aggressing corp to pay for a week of war and in fact only receive 24 hours -- that's not the case here. In this case, the aggressor gets a worthless dec but it does last the full week and denies the aggressed parties access to that specific corp for the duration of the dec. More importantly, the alliance- hopping exploit can be used to successfully defend a POS at no cost; this particular stratagem can not, in fact it would seem to reduce your chances of hanging onto a POS considerably. In other words, a corp that is actually reaping the significant benefits of incorporation doesn't stand to gain anything from such activities. Given that there are plenty of other activities ingame that, to put it kindly, "vigorously and creatively exercise" game mechanics in surprising ways (escrow scam, "lofty" scam, et al) and which are either countenanced or actively encouraged by the devs and community I can't say for sure that the outcome of this petition is assured. It'll be interesting to see how it goes. You make some excellent points, and I would argue them if I wasn't sick. --------
Quelque Chose	Posted - 2008.02.20 05:02:00 - [149] Originally by: Vikarion You make some excellent points, and I would argue them if I wasn't sick. I came in here to get my rules lawyer on and this llama won't even undock. SPLOITZ!!!!!111 Sorry to hear that, get well soon.
Hameska	Posted - 2008.02.20 13:57:00 - [150] Seems lame that they're doing it. Seems lame you're whining that it's some sort of exploit. There's nothing fishy in the exploit-sense. Sure, it's a cheap move, but there's no exploit here. Everything is working as intended. Perhaps CCP didn't consider this strategy in designing corps/wars. However, if CCP does anything in response, it would be to change a game mechanic, not punish the sissy non-PVP corp. They aren't breaking any rules, just doing what the game allows them to do.



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