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What makes a good pvp pilot?

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Korlock	Posted - 2008.02.16 08:12:00 - [1] I was thinking about this after reading some comments in caod and the ship fitting forum about so and so having good pvp pilots etc. What would an corporation or alliance leader be looking for in a player to consider him a good pvp pilot? Skillpoints? Amount of time active? Discipline? Ability to follow orders? Knowledge of the game? Potential? Bloodthirst? Willingness to sacrifice RL to fulfill the interests of the corp/alliance? Obviously these are all good qualities to have, and they do tend to coincide with each other, but I which one trumps the other and what specifics would a recruiter look for when trying to find new players to fill in the ranks.
Alanee'a Unakarakta	Posted - 2008.02.16 08:21:00 - [2] Edited by: Alanee''a Unakarakta on 16/02/2008 08:22:53 most look for your SP, and how's it divided among your skills they can't see your online time before you join, and then they see your last location and date online but even the greatest of SP won't help, if the recruit turns out to be a moron :) ------------------ - - - -_^ send me eve-related links, and make ISK'ies @ www.unakarakta.info www.3v3-online.com
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.02.16 09:05:00 - [3] This is an interesting therad. I will watch it often becuase I also wanted to knew why. It is so harded to find a corp and I don't knew why. I has plenty of SP ... --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.02.16 09:12:00 - [4] dont buy your way in, pay your dues, work your way up, and rember even at 1m sp you can be effecitive in pvp, as long as you keep your cool, listen carefully, dont talk over your FC. in otherwords you most likely want to do everything the opposite of the poster above me --
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.16 09:14:00 - [5] Isk for the ships and skills to pay the bills
Riho Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.02.16 09:17:00 - [6] good pvp pilot. knows abit about the game... what the ships hes fighting can throw at him. sp isnt everything. ill take a 1-2mil sp char who knows what hes doing in hes ship rather than a 50mil sp pilot who has no clue what so ever about pvp. discipline, good game knowledge, well spent skillpoints(even if you have only a few mills). depending on corp and alliance you want to join.. active time might be important aswel. ---------------------------------- This is Me
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.16 09:45:00 - [7] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 16/02/2008 09:55:53 To be perfectly honest - good PvP pilots are those that learn from their mistakes. Sure skills/Isk etc etc can help. But there are people with 60mil sp in motherships fitted that could get beat from a battleship, going by the recent wade of seriously funny monthership fittings. So SP/Iskis not a defining factor - its a bonus to pvp mindset. Also regarding reasonable RL issues - RL always comes first and any pvp corp you join must understand this. Those that dont are probebly corps you might want to think twice about. If you want to enjoy pvp in this game, then risk your assets and have fun. When you die, think about what you could have done differently and still go out and pvp. It is a learning experience and corps such as Blue and Red accept anyone into their ranks and can be a good starting place to practice and learn pvp. If some player kill you, just convo them up and ask for advise on what you could have done and be constructive - you will be surprised at the results! This game has a current curse of "carebear pvp" where half the pvpers in the game are afraid to risk more than the isk value of a carcarel even though they have billions in their wallets. Dont be one of them - you will never enjoy eve and never learn anything about real pvp being cloaked up in ratting 'pvp' raven as they call it or even hiding in a pos for 90% of your gametime. This trap catches a lot of "pvpers" who end up in a boring style of play and think eve sucks when they dont relise that they are only playing eve for corp pride. -- Billion Isk Mission
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2008.02.16 10:16:00 - [8] Attitude. No, really, SPs mean precisely nothing. The willingness to fight, to learn, and to 'take one for the team' when it's necessary. The willingless to work as a team, the ability to think strategically. Skillpoints are a factor, but not in the way people tend to assume - it's not about how many you have, it's about can you fly a particular shipclass well. It's not unreasonable to assume that someone who's e.g. flown vagabonds a lot, and thus knows what they're doing with them, will also have skills to support flying vagabonds. And similarly, someone who claims to be an experience vagabond pilot, who can't use T2 autocannons, might well be lying. You don't need to be good at -every- ship to be useful in PvP. But it really helps if you're good at at least one. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.02.16 10:16:00 - [9] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 16/02/2008 10:18:23 -Common and tactical sense -Well spent skill point distribution -Game knowledge -Ability to use the friggin scanner (shocking how many do not) -Able to fit/fly to win (the "its lost when you undock" philosophy is utter baloney) -Solid mentors and the ability to learn from them -Able to handle losses...learn from them...and bounce right back while understanding its a video game and the pixels really have no value beyond entertainment (unless you happen to be an ISK-buyer and then LOL at you ). Even rarer are those that can actually scout properly......and vey VERY few are able to seriously handle FC duties at ANY level. Based on what I have seen perhaps 5-10% of EvE combat pilots fit the above profile. If that many. The remainder are F1-F8 lemmings/cannon fodder/EFT warriors. No offense intended... The more successful corps have an above-average number of pilots able to fit the above criteria which is why they do well. Snigg, PAK, BOS, AU, and TRI all come to mind as relevant examples. But alliances as a whole will suffer from dilution in the ranks ranging from ratters/industrialists forced to answer CTA's in their rat ships of choice to pilots who really have no clue beyond F1-F8. EDITCorps named above are just examples who I am familiar with. There are others . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Forando Interstellar Cowards	Posted - 2008.02.16 10:17:00 - [10] A good pilot? Clearly a firm understanding of ship dynamics (EW, Tanking concepts, Strong and weak points of ships/weapons) will get you far. But you really need to get your feet dirty fighting. I was almost about to say, the more ships you've lost the better, sadly it isn't so. But imagine a race driver: He really have to slide out in the grass a few times to get a picture of the limits of mother nature, where does gravity kick in! When he has a good picture of these limitations, he can drive just below that, optimizing his performance. But it requires the practice, the confrontations and lastly the evaluations to get to that point. The same goes for PvP in EVE. A talented pilot will have a clear picture of the odds very early in a fight, he will know which target should be taken down first to hinter the enemy the most. He will know what tactics would work and which would leave him in a pod. He will have this knowledge from a massive amount of encounters, not to mention losses, before. And he will evaluate both his own actions and perhaps also his team mates, constantly learning. This process you can start in a frigate! Being pilot in EVE is not just about undocking. If you want to fly with someone else you kinda need social competences. There is no right or wrong here, but usually people that can relate, work better together often creating a combat-synergy. So it really comes down to finding a group/corp you work good with. Enjoy, and fly safe..
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.02.16 10:44:00 - [11] number of real kills death/ ratio
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.02.16 10:49:00 - [12] Originally by: L70Rogue number of real kills death/ ratio This must be a joke. Locking/getting off one shot with 40 others on the mail is not exactly a mark of a great combat pilot. It means you know how to activiate your mods and possibly use a sensor booster . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Lucky Jack'o Gallente Against all Rules	Posted - 2008.02.16 10:59:00 - [13] Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 16/02/2008 10:18:23 -Common and tactical sense -Well spent skill point distribution -Game knowledge -Ability to use the friggin scanner (shocking how many do not) -Able to fit/fly to win (the "its lost when you undock" philosophy is utter baloney) -Solid mentors and the ability to learn from them -Able to handle losses...learn from them...and bounce right back while understanding its a video game and the pixels really have no value beyond entertainment (unless you happen to be an ISK-buyer and then LOL at you ). Even rarer are those that can actually scout properly......and vey VERY few are able to seriously handle FC duties at ANY level. Based on what I have seen perhaps 5-10% of EvE combat pilots fit the above profile. If that many. The remainder are F1-F8 lemmings/cannon fodder/EFT warriors. No offense intended... hits the spot nothing more to say
Frannkie	Posted - 2008.02.16 11:06:00 - [14] an element of luck as well ! nothing worse than a lag spike when you have the upper hand
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.02.16 11:28:00 - [15] Yelling in Vent/TS. _________________ Burn. Devs, ISD and GMs mod my sig for cake! \o/ CCP Navigator was here and left some green text and bars _____________ _____________
bixentine Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.16 11:41:00 - [16] there is essentially two questions here, one is 'what makes a good pvp pilot?' and the other is 'what should an alliance/corp leader be looking for when recruiting pvp pilots?'. i'll try to give u my opinion on each seperately. 'what makes a good pvp pilot?' skillpoints are important to the point of u need to have enough of them to pilot at least one ship to an effective level and as people have already pointed out a pilot with 10 mil sp can beat a pilot with 50 mil sp if he is in the right ship and has the skills needed. the main factor for solo pvp is knowing the strength of what u are flying and its weaknesses and knowing the same for the type of ships u are engaging so a good knowledge of fittings and ships would be important. For fleet pvp however it is important to just know that u do what u are told and trust ur fc. controlled bloodlust is essential though too much bloodlust just leads u to suicide urself and fall for easy bait traps. 'what should an alliance/corp leader be looking for when recruiting pvp pilots?' its quite hard to tell whether a player is a good pvp'r before they join but there are a few ways to get a good idea. check their name on their old corp/alliances killboards and on battleclinic, k/d ratio will give you a good indication of their ability though don't get too drawn into that, i for example have an excellent k/d ratio but for solo pvp i am average at best. the killboards and killmails give u a good idea of what they fly and what fittings they use if u find some death mails. also always a good idea imo to get them to send u a screenshot of their skills sheet as some ppl can be older players but have very little sp or have sp in industry etc and not be very effective at pvp. attitude is a major factor, perhaps the biggest one, always have at least a private convo with the recruit before they join, ts/vent convo is best though, if they are applying to u they should already know all about you, ask them q's about sp, participation etc, then get them to ask u q's, if they ask if u have a ship replacement program or ask how the ratting is or how mining is etc, close convo, it sounds harsh but if that is what they want to ask the first time they talk to you then chances are it is all they are joining for. thats my opinion anyway, hope it helps.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.02.16 11:51:00 - [17] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 16/02/2008 11:52:22 Originally by: bixentine ....if they ask if u have a ship replacement program or ask how the ratting is or how mining is etc, close convo, it sounds harsh but if that is what they want to ask the first time they talk to you then chances are it is all they are joining for. thats my opinion anyway, hope it helps. Why would asking about replacement ships be grounds for dismissing an applicant? It certainly seems valid to ask especially if the corp is on the pew 23/7 and doing so to protect non-combatants/space/etc. Unless the corp specifically states "self-reliance on all matters fiscal and supply-wise" it is a question any street-smart combat pilot SHOULD ask. And a good k/d ratio (unless solo) is meaningless. It usually means your blob is more efficient than the other guys blob . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.02.16 12:30:00 - [18] When you attack someone and things dont work out the way you planned, you have met a good pilot. --- Its dead, Jim.
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.02.16 12:40:00 - [19] Originally by: RuleoftheBone Originally by: L70Rogue number of real kills death/ ratio This must be a joke. Locking/getting off one shot with 40 others on the mail is not exactly a mark of a great combat pilot. It means you know how to activiate your mods and possibly use a sensor booster . If you look at a killboard see that that person has 50 kills and 300 deaths I doubt they will get into veto.
Abbadon Caldari Pukin' Dogs D0GMA	Posted - 2008.02.16 12:44:00 - [20] Trust Patience Attention to detail Ability to listen and shut up when needed No smack Be able to accept the fact they will lose ships/pods Spacial awareness Be able to adapt quickly Knowledge of not only their own ships/skill and capabilities but also to identify counters and weaknesses in hostile ships/fleets. Team player .
ThatCpp Gallente Knights Of the Black Sun	Posted - 2008.02.16 12:45:00 - [21] One of the more important things to being a good pvp pilot is having good ship fittings. Its important to know how to fit your ship up for the different situations you will expect to bring it into.
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.02.16 14:46:00 - [22] Edited by: Buyerr on 16/02/2008 14:46:00 Patience. a LOT of Patience... if you can outlast the other team without dying of boredom, your good to go XD... I declare war on stupidity
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.02.16 14:53:00 - [23] This Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Jack Brazen Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.02.16 15:40:00 - [24] I consider myself a great PvP pilot, even though this is my first character and he is around 2 months old. But I've got a great teacher, I've devoted myself to learning PvP, and I've spent quite a lot of time fighting against the odds. Granted, I wouldn't consider myself a fleet PvP'er at all, but for solo or small gang PvP, the fact that I've barely breached 2 mil SP doesn't mean much to me. I've beaten a 1+ year old combat character who was in a Vexor, back when I was less than a month old and flying a Thorax. A great fitting for my ship, some heavy micro-management, and the ability to dictate the range of engagement gave me a victory, and also the biggest thrill either of us have had in-game. He made a few mistakes - he could have brought 2 more tech II Hammerheads in his drone-bay I believe, and he had two salvagers fitted - and I made none. That's what gave me the victory in that particular fight. So, I agree with many of the people above. PvP in this game depends on a multitude of factors, ranging from SP, ship, fittings and other game-related points, all the way to how much micro-managing of cap one is willing/able to do - a strictly player-based factor. I'd say though, that those saying experience is key are absolutely right. I've lost plenty of frigs to everything able to fit a gun or send out a drone, but lately the trend is reversing and I'm the one killing people in unlikely ships. Again, I wouldn't know how all this works for larger engagements, but for small-scale or solo PvP, I think the most important factors by far rest with the players. If you are in a fight you can't win, then you made a mistake even engaging (or allowing yourself to be enganged). And if you DO loose, I'd say being able to learn from it is what makes you a great PvP'er. Consider every lost ship a tuition fee into the great school of PvP that EvE is, but do your damned best not to loose the next one ;) ----- In EVE - never bring a knife to a knife-fight. Reckless Corsairs is looking for a few aspiring team PVPers.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2008.02.16 15:51:00 - [25] Originally by: RuleoftheBone Originally by: L70Rogue number of real kills death/ ratio This must be a joke. Locking/getting off one shot with 40 others on the mail is not exactly a mark of a great combat pilot. It means you know how to activiate your mods and possibly use a sensor booster . A good kill death ratio, means you probably have a well behaved fleet pilot. That can be worth something. Doesn't necessarily make them a Pvper though, just someone who's disciplined enough to look and shoot da primary when the FC says so. The ratio is meaningless. The 'number of kills' is meaningless - you can kill an awful lot of haulers at a gatecamp, relatively easily. You might be well served to ask a pilot 'can you link us to your best fight'. And then look at what they _considered_ a good fight. How many were there, how did they do? And what was their criteria for considering it 'best'. If you see a fight which has 50 on their side, and 5 on the other, but they wiped the other guys out without a loss, then ... well, yeah. If you see it the other way around, where the 5 took on the 50, and got a few kills before all exploderising, then you might have a good PvPer there :). If you see a fight against the odds, that had some reflection of success, considered a 'good fight' you probably have someone who's a good PVPer. There is a real swing in 'whats good, when'. There's not actually all that many pilots who are great allrounders, and can do fleet commanding, scouting, small gangs, soloing, large gangs, all as well as each other. The best you can really hope for when recruiting, is to look for those that 'seem to do well' and have a lot of experience in the size and composition of fights you consider 'normal'. Not sure about anyone else, but actually, soloers aren't a huge lot of use. Whilst they're really good for killboard padding, in their killfrenzys, someone who can work well in a small (<5 person) gang, is much more of an asset. Hate to say it, but even in 0.0 there's a lot of bad PvPers, who cover this lack by massive overkill. You don't necessarily realise this, until you see someone 'good' administer a spanking against a 'superior' opponent. Depending a lot on how you define 'good'. Killboards don't measure good - they're prone to being inaccurate, and anyway, the numbers on them are pretty meaningless really. It's only standalone fights that can be observed and really used as a basis for spotting a 'good' pvper. (Of course, spotting a bad one is relatively easier) But I still say it's more about the attitude than anything. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Chuck Skull BBK Corp	Posted - 2008.02.16 15:59:00 - [26] A big pair helps, so does understanding of game mechanics. Alliances rarely end up in solo(1v1) PVP fights, though. In my experience being able to laugh at and learn from your losses is a big plus. SP isn't everything --- Also available in 'sober'
benzss Twisted Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.16 16:12:00 - [27] 1/3 knowledge of game mechanics and ship fittings 1/3 the psychology... having the balls to engage the enemy, having the right attitude to learn from and listen to corpmates, etc 1/3 split-second tactical decisions in the heat of battle
ry ry StateCorp Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.16 16:26:00 - [28] learning to recognise a t2 ship from the equivilent t1 hull. god knows i've made that mistake enough times to mark me as a crap pvper :( Signature removed. Too large and flashing signatures are not really permitted. Navigator
Taua Roqa Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.02.16 16:28:00 - [29] Originally by: ry ry learning to recognise a t2 ship from the equivilent t1 hull. god knows i've made that mistake enough times to mark me as a crap pvper :( hahahahaha oh god yes. "it's just a bellicose lol...oh damn" -------------------------------------------- Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. My I/Q Ration!!!11
General StarScream	Posted - 2008.02.16 16:37:00 - [30] The most important thing for a pvper in my mind. Is the fun factor, if you have fun, you win in eve pvp. no one can take that away from you. Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint

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