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Axelay	Posted - 2003.06.12 06:20:00 - [1] It's about time that some of us were killed. Granted those that fell had mining lasers.. but at any rate. Congratulation OMEGA CORP on your victory today. It is nice to have a worthy opponent for a change. _____ m0o
Molly	Posted - 2003.06.12 06:24:00 - [2] gaping --- "Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so? Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor? Molly > lol Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships"
Tool	Posted - 2003.06.12 06:32:00 - [3] Good chit O-Corp. Keep killin'em :D
Axelay	Posted - 2003.06.12 06:38:00 - [4] What? You aren't outraged at Omega corps 'exploits' or 'bug abuse'? Odd... This is the point I've made all along, this equipment is available to EVERYONE. Our defeat shows how true this is and how fair the system is. _____ m0o
k33l3m	Posted - 2003.06.12 06:42:00 - [5] bad lag and bad timing
Axelay	Posted - 2003.06.12 06:45:00 - [6] But perfectly legit, and fair. _____ m0o
Tristan	Posted - 2003.06.12 06:48:00 - [7] Quote: bad lag and bad timing At least Axelay had the grace to accept you had your ass handed to you on your behalf k33l33m Do0d0r. And Props to the OC navy ;) Btw.. when that setup gets nerfed, and the docking, undocking thing gets fixed Axelay, you wont be so lucky yourself in future. Those hit squads will keep coming, and getting bigger. And when you run out of exploits and loop holes to use, your all going to suffer the wrath of the people you have annoyed so much over the past month. If it wasnt for undocking and redocking over and over, you yourself would have been dead the other day. K33l33m, just accept the fact you had it handed to you and quit with the excuses.
Axelay	Posted - 2003.06.12 07:02:00 - [8] If I were not able to dock/undock I would have found other means of escape. I certainly wouldn't call that an exploit, as many times as I have seen folks dock to hide and undock, I've never called it an 'exploit'. You guys are understandably upset about the fact that you lost 15-20 cruisers to 4 of us, but I must request that you please not miss the point here. Everyone has an equal oppourtunity to succeed under the current system, no drastic changes are needed to 'balance' things. We in m0o live for combat, and understand that sometimes you are the bug, and sometimes you are the windshield. _____ m0o
Damon Vile	Posted - 2003.06.12 07:07:00 - [9] How long did the shooting last? I'm not talking about the running around trying to find each other. How long from the time they targeted you to the time you where in your pod? If it was under 10 seconds then yes combat needs to be changed.
Shintai	Posted - 2003.06.12 07:07:00 - [10] Equality, if one can, more can. :) Still working abit to have surplus for some major PvP ;) Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
j0rt	Posted - 2003.06.12 07:09:00 - [11] Im not sure the docking thing will ever become that apprent in game. Perhaps the station guns will start to fire at players with negative security, but that isnt much of a bigge as long as your in a cruiser or higher. I personally welcome the challenge of people coming for us and cant wait to get into some big fights and possibly get our asses kicked. I wish people would stop clinging on to this exploit thing. It seems to me that people better than you at something tristan will allways have an applicable excuse to clear your concience of the fact that sometimes your not the best at everything. Nerfing weapons will not help this game in my opinion and just to clarify our setups are all different so there will allways be something that works well. Battleships are here... let the goodtimes roll :)
Nyarlathotep	Posted - 2003.06.12 07:23:00 - [12] Thats the spirit = ) ______________________ Im the last... I will tell the audient void...
Axelay	Posted - 2003.06.12 07:26:00 - [13] Yup :) This should be a good time for all. The people we have been slaughtering will be happy that we finally lost some ships. And we are happy that there is finally some worthy opponents out there to defend against. _____ m0o
Specter	Posted - 2003.06.12 07:44:00 - [14] Thanks for the kind words. Large scale conflicts will indeed be interesting to say the least. I do look forward to CCP lowering weapon damage as I have suggested since phase 4. I want to see longer engagements where tactics and other forms of combat (electronic for example) actually have a chance to happen. In tonights fight (as was asked) the time from lock to cruiser destruction was around 2 seconds or so. That is far to quick and robs much of the fun from combat... at least for me.
Captain Bluebear	Posted - 2003.06.12 09:42:00 - [15] Ah, EVE is evolving. Can't wait for the first major Corp War... ps. can somebody please fix the font size on posting with quotes... Edited by: Captain Bluebear on 12/06/2003 09:42:38 ________________________________________________ Captain Bluebear Interstellar Vagrant
Axelay	Posted - 2003.06.12 11:12:00 - [16] If you had a minmatar ship with a rare sensor booster that does ~60% reduced targetting time you _MIGHT_ be able to target a ship in 2 seconds. But to target and destroy a ship in 2 seconds? That sounds quite peculiar. It takes me 6-8 seconds to destroy a newbie frigate. (if you count lock on time.) But whatever :) Good show man. _____ m0o
Shintai	Posted - 2003.06.12 11:23:00 - [17] Axeley..just for fun..how long are you approx to destroy a thorax/moa/maller etc. If you don¦t count targetlock too. I know I need about 10sec on a basic cruiser and 25-30sec on a topline cruiser. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
syndic4te	Posted - 2003.06.12 11:24:00 - [18] BAH! exploits... thats freakin BS! aha sorry but its true. there are ways to use weapons in a certain way to increase their power, and evidently mOo has found a good way, but thats not a exploit. Its like diablo... See i use Raven Frost Rings to better my attack dmg is that a exploit? umm No. so cut this exploit Bs. seriously --- ---
Axelay	Posted - 2003.06.12 11:33:00 - [19] Well, moas and thorax's take between 30-45 seconds depending on if they use a shield booster or not. _____ m0o
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.06.12 11:35:00 - [20] Just for the record, I don't consider the weapons thing an exploit. If I could find those setups, I would have no issues with using them. What I don't agree with is that docking recharges your shield and cap, and that to repair 90% of a ships hull take 10 seconds, when it takes 3 days to make the ship in the first place. I'm glad to see someone is taking m0o's advice and fighting back though. Who knows, when I can afford to replace myself, I might even join in too. .
XeQtR	Posted - 2003.06.12 11:39:00 - [21] 30-45 seconds? Seems they should be able to get away in that time. Or are the ones getting blown up by you generally the ones who fight back?
Callas	Posted - 2003.06.12 11:45:00 - [22] [fighting near to stations, docking to escape combat] > I certainly wouldn't call that an exploit, as > many times as I have seen folks dock to hide > and undock, I've never called it an 'exploit'. An exploit is where the game exhibits behaviour which was not intended by the developers but which provides significant advantages to players; e.g. ark ninja mining. I am certain the devs did not intend for people to fight in proximity to stations and dock when-ever they get low on armour to perform instant repairs and then return to battle. If this were so, battles would be ridiculous; the attacking side would MWD to the proximity of the station to be able to dock at need, and then each side would endlessly dock, emerge, fight, dock, emerge, fight, etc. As such I regard this behaviour as an exploit, since it is behaviour in the game which was not intended by the developers but which provides a significant advantage to the players performing the action. -- Callas
Shintai	Posted - 2003.06.12 11:48:00 - [23] XeQtR: Maybe warp disrupter and stasis field kicks in there ;p Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
XeQtR	Posted - 2003.06.12 11:50:00 - [24] yeah probably. :) I need my mwd's NOW. (Well I have them but the necessary skills wont be ready for another day.)
syndic4te	Posted - 2003.06.12 11:53:00 - [25] same here --- ---
Shock	Posted - 2003.06.12 12:02:00 - [26] Quote: Granted those that fell had mining lasers.. but at any rate. Quote: What? You aren't outraged at Omega corps 'exploits' or 'bug abuse'? You said people with miners and it doesn't take the infamous laser+stamped heatsinks to kill miners... Quote: The people we have been slaughtering will be happy that we finally lost some ships. Yeah right as if you guys even care the slightest about losing some cruisers anymore. The current prices of clones are a joke and you guys have the same access to equipment like ships for the same prices as others. Seems like you gave the word 'pirate' a whole new meaning. Become rich, become famous, kill people and get away with it because the empires and CONCORD don't care the slightest, nor do the people that sell high-grade military equipment like Moa blueprints or top-level clones. Sounds like a fairytale, sadly though it's reality (well sorta). --- soonÖ
Demangel	Posted - 2003.06.12 12:41:00 - [27] It shouldn't take 30-40 seconds to kill ANYTHING one on one ideally if both ships are of the same basic class (frigate Vs frigate, cruiser vs cruiser for example). That doesn't mean M0o Exploited either. But I have heardrumors that the way they probably get such high damage also wasn't intended... (not an exploit, more of a design glitch). Right now you can try an experiment. go grab a rifter, and drop 3 250MM Arty projectile cannons into it's turret slots. Next grab ( think 2) lateral gyrostabilizers, and a ton of EM and Titanium sabbot s rounds (think thats the projectile name, as hybrid has a similar type). If your relevant skills are 3+ and your in a Rifter, I PROMISE that you will see EACH GUN do around 40-70 Damage PER SHOT ON AVERAGE Depending on the targets resistances! times 3 guns? thats 120-210 Damage EVERY 2-4 SECONDS. Thats enough to almost completely Knock out my shield in one pass! That just CANNOT be right. Now apply the same kind of module boosting to a cruiser... Say you have the Cruiser equivalent of the 250MM Arty cannon, and up to 5 low slots each with a Lateral Gyro? I don't find it hard in the least to beleive that M0o can do 10K damage in ten seconds at ALL. See the problem is I don't think Damage boosting modules where meant to be stackable (or so I heard once on good authority). Personaly if that IS how CCP intended for them to work, I'm a bit disapointed. Defensive modules even when stacked arn't anywhere NEAR that effective... The end result is, even without stacked boosting modules, one on one equal ship combat takes WAY to short a time. In my mind when all things are equal regardless of the ships size two equal ships should take at LEAST 2 minutes or more to destroy one another. 30-50 seconds is lame... there is no challenge, no room for tactics, heck your capacitor won't even have a chance to run out and effect the battle because by the time it does, your dead anyway LOL. Oh well... Thats my 2ISK Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.
Specter	Posted - 2003.06.12 14:08:00 - [28] We concentrate fire on a vessel to eliminate it from battle fast so 2 secs from time of lock is about right when you have multiple cruisers wailing away on you. It would be foolish for your military to randomly pick targets and spread your damage out over multiple targets.
Torval Sontu	Posted - 2003.06.12 14:45:00 - [29] Basically to put it bluntly some m0o guys got owned with miners on by a large corp that is respected highly in game. M0o if I am not mistaken has done the same thing oh well who cares. I don't see Omega posting a thread about you guys dying and I don't know why you felt the need to post as well. Perhaps a mod can lock this thread as it is pointless and is from a corp that isn't as respected in the community?
Callas	Posted - 2003.06.12 14:52:00 - [30] Quote: Perhaps a mod can lock this thread as it is pointless and is from a corp that isn't as respected in the community? I don't think much of the idea that "the community" can cause the threads of a corp which is "not respected by the community" to be locked. This is the suppression of free speech; we would only be able to post according to whatever it happens to be that the majority think is acceptable. -- Callas
Setec	Posted - 2003.06.12 15:06:00 - [31] Quote: Perhaps a mod can lock this thread as it is pointless and is from a corp that isn't as respected in the community? I could write something long and intelligent to reply to that absurd statement, but it's not really worth the time--it'll suffice to just say that you're really stupid. ___________________________________________ Space Invaders website: http://www.si-corp.net
Sykosys	Posted - 2003.06.12 15:13:00 - [32] This thread WAS constructive but as of now is not. Too much flaiming for no reason. Please close thread. _______________________ "She'll fly apart sir," "FLY HER APART THEN!!!"
Wrangler	Posted - 2003.06.12 15:13:00 - [33] No, forum rules dictate what you can post. [Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators]
Tristan	Posted - 2003.06.12 15:25:00 - [34] Quote: You guys are understandably upset about the fact that you lost 15-20 cruisers to 4 of us, Odd you get that figure as there was only 7 cruisers there. But i understand you cant count. And you dont consider docking and undocking over and over an Exploit inorder to keep your shields fully charged and capacitor too? please define the word "Exploit" for me again to make sure im not going mad.
The Wretch	Posted - 2003.06.12 15:26:00 - [35] "Granted those that fell had mining lasers.. but at any rate." So most of you had on mining lasers and you felt this was challenging enough for Omega corp to be worthy of a congradulations post? Sounds more like a jest to Omega corp. Do you feel the outcome would of been the same if you were all fully geared for combat? If so then I will take this post as a congradulations post and not a "you were lucky" kind of post. The Wretch Cyberdyne Systems CEO The Wretch Cyberdyne Systems CEO
Eldon Tyrell	Posted - 2003.06.12 15:40:00 - [36] Axelay qoute: "Yup :) This should be a good time for all. The people we have been slaughtering will be happy that we finally lost some ships. And we are happy that there is finally some worthy opponents out there to defend against. _____ m0o" As soon as you start to lose badly to a corp after a battle, then you will whine like the best of them. As long as the numbers fall in your favor after combat you will remain ahem..."gracious" Nice try Axe but most people see through your "gracious comments"
Gauss	Posted - 2003.06.12 16:08:00 - [37] This is a momentous day for eve players. It's like the death star being destroyed in star wars IV (the first one!)... well, prepare for empire strikes back! And no return of the jedi! no! Hahah Anyway I hear the (valid) point being made that weapons are much stronger than armor. I made a point in an earlier thread that yeah, this is historically how it's always been. A modern tank can destroy another modern tank with a single well aimed shot. An aircraft carrier can be sunk with a single torpedo. If you add armor/nerf weapons (essentially the same thing) you're only going to shift the advantage to larger ships. As someone mentioned, right now frigates are capable of mounting some pretty damaging weapons. Right now, a well piloted frigate can be scary to a cruiser, and 3-4 well piloted frigates can be scary to a battleship, especially if they make a surprise attack. If you nerf it the advantage shifts to large ships, because they are no longer vulnerable to suprise attacks. Then there really are no effective tactics available to smaller forces. I think it's kind of silly that cruisers can can go faster than any frigate, because they can mount mwd's (yeah a frigate can mount a mwd if that's all they mount). I'd like to see a low-power mwd that works only on frigates to make them the fast/lightly armored/very manueverable ships they were probably meant to be. Then they'd have a real place in combat (get in under the range of the guns of the larger ships, etc.) In star wars, they sent in fighter ships against the death star, right? And the most skilled pilots were flying fighter ships, not the cruisers and battleships. (Sorry if I take star wars as an authoritative source on this, it's all we've got.) I'd like to see better "keep at distance" and "orbit" controls. Who wants to orbit at 50m? Put a lot more options in there. Also, making some weapons directional/fixed would add alot to combat. There's alot of strategy in keeping your opponent at the right range for your weapons, but right now that's the only consideration in combat. So in conclusion: No nerf weapons. Nerf weapons bad. Me want crush nerf weapons! Nerfed weapons mean more effective large ships and less effective small ships. gauss moo ps. where's the powerful mines? mines that do serious damage would be awesome!
Ivellios	Posted - 2003.06.12 16:41:00 - [38] CONGRATS to Omega on showing the world that even superman has kryptonite. WELL DONE to m0o who accepted defeat with grace and dignity. A rare quality among homicidal killers :) Edited by: Ivellios on 12/06/2003 16:42:51 When at last they discover the center of the universe there will be many people who will be dissapointed that they are not it.
Thirdstorm	Posted - 2003.06.12 17:01:00 - [39] Ummm Hate to try and be a Glory Hog, But I was the one who got the first 2 kills, Thirdstorm of Solarwind.... and the M0o's were equiped for combat.... Angent Zero, sorry again if it was an unjust kill, no honor in killing someone who is hardlocked
Callas	Posted - 2003.06.12 17:03:00 - [40] Quote: Anyway I hear the (valid) point being made that weapons are much stronger than armor. I made a point in an earlier thread that yeah, this is historically how it's always been. A modern tank can destroy another modern tank with a single well aimed shot. An aircraft carrier can be sunk with a single torpedo. Not always. The supremacy of the offensive weapon came about with the advent of gunpower. -- Callas
Darkannis	Posted - 2003.06.12 17:05:00 - [41] edited out - cant believe im arguing with an eejit. Edited by: Darkannis on 12/06/2003 17:06:42
The Wretch	Posted - 2003.06.12 17:18:00 - [42] "I'd like to see better "keep at distance" and "orbit" controls. Who wants to orbit at 50m? Put a lot more options in there." This would make too much sense [;)] . It would be even better if we could program into our ships preset distances for different situations. "Also, making some weapons directional/fixed would add alot to combat. There's alot of strategy in keeping your opponent at the right range for your weapons, but right now that's the only consideration in combat." When using heavy missle deployment (I fly a caracal in our fleet) direction, agility, and speed mean the world. I do find it kind of hokie when a players turrets fire directly through their ship at times. Plus there has to be a much more practical way of piloting the ship if we are ever going to get directional/fixed weapon systems in game. I don't know about you, but I would like something other then a point and click for this. The Wretch Cyberdyne Systems CEO The Wretch Cyberdyne Systems CEO
Harrow Wilkes	Posted - 2003.06.12 18:01:00 - [43] As being one of the members of the joint Omega Corp/Solar Wind M0O pirate bashing night, I'd like to put my 2 cents worth in. Moo: You say you were equipped with miners? Do you really expect anyone to believe that? Especially since element and k3ll3m were sitting outside our station doing what...mining the sentry guns? please...for the most part you've shown dignity and (gasp) honor by admitting that you were destroyed. As was said before, OC nor SW started a post glorifying how we handed your hats to you. So please don't insult our intelligence. to thirdstorm: I agree it hasn't been made abundantly clear that it was you that got the 2 kills against Moo. My hat's off to you and let it be known that you indeed were the one who destroyed element and agent zero. This was a successful joint effort between OC and SW and shows what can be accomplished when allies work together.
Mach	Posted - 2003.06.12 18:08:00 - [44] As usual, i rejoice at each time someone from moo is defeated, regardless of who it is who attacked them. As for being equipped with mining lasers, don't make excuses. You've done far worse.
Archon Stormrage	Posted - 2003.06.12 18:10:00 - [45] Good fun at last. Grats to my guy Hume of OC for kills and Thirdstorm of Solarwind. Now that people see m0o aren't invincible get off yer bums and go hunt some. Be organised and you can succeed, this is one of the large things m0o does and one of many reasons they can kick many players. Things might liven up now :) . Edited by: Archon Stormrage on 12/06/2003 18:10:45
Void	Posted - 2003.06.12 20:50:00 - [46] I was also part of the OC team. Thirdstorm of Solarwind and Hume of OC were the heaviest hitters of the team and Thirdstorm of Solarwind was the one who got both Element and Agent_Xero. Thats all I care to say, but till next time good journeys to all.
Axelay	Posted - 2003.06.12 23:34:00 - [47] Hahaha _____ m0o
Kerago	Posted - 2003.06.13 00:19:00 - [48] "Not always. The supremacy of the offensive weapon came about with the advent of gunpower." -Callas As Callas says, real world military combat wasn't always about instakills. Even today, where combat is really won and lost is in the battles of attrition and the control of supply lines. There is no logical reason why the game balancing cannot be tweaked at will, especially if the tweaking will make for a more enjoyable combat experience. In a game that has no real skill element to combat, tactics should have primacy, not ship purely ship loadout and targeting time. There should be time for manevering, time to implement counter-tactics. Docking-insta refresh has to go. I've seen it used time and time again in another MMORPG, Jumpgate, and it was one of the most frustrating elements about combat. At least in that game it took skill and time to dock, and docking under fire gave your enemies a chance to finish you off. In this game all you are is a button click away. Combat at the highest level needs to last much longer than 30-35 seconds. My reasoning for that is really quite simple: Balancing "work" and "fun". For someone who likes combat and doesn't like mindless mining, or even mindless npc loot farming, getting a cruiser takes a very long time. This is the "work" portion. If owning that cruiser and fighting in it can last as little as 10 seconds, the "work" to "fun" ratio is vastly skewed. ________________________________________________ Ya Hya Chouhada, Long live the fighters.
Van Halen	Posted - 2004.05.11 22:43:00 - [49] i'm rdy to fight mOo. not because i hate them cuz i want a good challeneg, but right now i'm in a tristan......i might as well give them my insurance money too while i' mat it. so when i get good enuff me and my corp will be there on the front lines also this exploit crap is gettin annoying, if what they were doing was exploiting CCp would be after them by now, so shut up and stop whining cuz Moo handed ur butt on a plate, try again next time and u might win. 2004.09.10 01:59:13 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Heavy Neutron Blaster I perfectly strikes Ater Draconis [MYT], wrecking for 361.2 damage.
Kulach	Posted - 2004.05.11 22:50:00 - [50] Bumping old threads is against forums rules. Please lock it mods. Just because something is fixed doesn't mean you can't break it
Kiros Seagill	Posted - 2004.05.12 00:27:00 - [51] Perhaps to keep your enemies from docking during combat you could...not shoot first. That way its their hostile act. and they arent getting into any station...
Wrangler	Posted - 2004.05.12 00:45:00 - [52] Ok, this was a bit old.. [Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators]

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