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Buyerr	Posted - 2008.02.19 00:28:00 - [1] okey why is it that lasers are the only turrets that have that "one seize bigger" then all the others.. the tachyon have a modifier that is clearly one seize bigger then all other turrets biggest turrets... we need that extra turrets for all the weaponries so it is fair. or remove tachyon. I declare war on stupidity
Law Enforcer Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.19 03:02:00 - [2] Edited by: Law Enforcer on 19/02/2008 03:02:31 it's an oversized turret and it's something that makes amarr special in fleet. I don't want cookie cutter online. there's nothing wrong with tachyons and should be left as is.
Blind Man1 Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.02.19 03:04:00 - [3] nerf amarr!
Basics	Posted - 2008.02.19 03:09:00 - [4] you have no idea what you are talking about thank you for letting us know that. Originally by: Buyerr okey why is it that lasers are the only turrets that have that "one seize bigger" then all the others.. the tachyon have a modifier that is clearly one seize bigger then all other turrets biggest turrets... we need that extra turrets for all the weaponries so it is fair. or remove tachyon.
Koyama Ise	Posted - 2008.02.19 05:40:00 - [5] Originally by: Buyerr ...so it is fair... Because we know dealing EM damage is the best damage to deal... maybe not as bad after the patch but then people might actually tank for it... -------- Yes, I know I'm an alt, what are you going to do about it?
Sonya Rayner Unicorn Enterprise Blind Octopus	Posted - 2008.02.19 06:24:00 - [6] Speaking of laser turrets and unfairness. Whereas every race has three long-range turrets AND three short-range turrets, amarr gets three long-range and TWO short-range ones. WTF? Comparison: Railguns come out in three fashions: Dual 250mm, 350mm and 425mm. So do lasers, Dual Heavy Beam, Mega Beam and Tachyon Beam. Now let's compare short-range ones. There's Electron, Ion and Neutron blasters, but only Dual Heavy and Mega Pulse lasers. There's one more missing in medium pulse laser lineup too! And if you're thinking, that Tachyons is incomparable to 425mms, then think twice. And, uh, look at 1400mm Artys damage modifier, you'll be suprised ____________________
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.02.19 10:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Sonya Rayner Speaking of laser turrets and unfairness. Whereas every race has three long-range turrets AND three short-range turrets, amarr gets three long-range and TWO short-range ones. WTF? Wait, minmatar only have two types of long range guns. Originally by: Sonya Rayner And if you're thinking, that Tachyons is incomparable to 425mms, then think twice. And, uh, look at 1400mm Artys damage modifier, you'll be suprised Oversized makes sense when speaking if the tach, it has the highest pwg usage and th second highest CPU cost for a range not better than the two others and a huge cap cost. What you lost dmg mods for fitting mods is given to the weapon's stat. Also, the ships using them usually don't have a damage bonus, or they pay the cost in cap (abbadon). Wait, shouldn't we compare fitted ships? I think I got to the point, let's compare fitted ships! A turret with no ship is nothing. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Testpilot XY	Posted - 2008.02.19 12:02:00 - [8] Tachyons don¦t do more damage than other turrets.. thats just wrong Weapons are always designed for ships! You cannot compare weapons without the race ship bonus! -Lasers get 25% more base damage than other turrets but they use 100% more cap than rails -laser cap use bonus is the replacement for a damage bonus on Amarr ships Apoc (gets a 10% cap reduction bonus per level) => damage 7 x Tachyon Beams = 213 Mega (gets a 5% damage bonus per level) => damage 7 x 425 mm rails = 212 here you can see that Tachyon damage = Rail damage the 10% cap bonus is the compensation for a damage bonus! this compensation bonus works fine with Beams but not with pulse lasers
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.02.19 13:38:00 - [9] Originally by: Testpilot XY Tachyons don¦t do more damage than other turrets.. thats just wrong Weapons are always designed for ships! You cannot compare weapons without the race ship bonus! -Lasers get 25% more base damage than other turrets but they use 100% more cap than rails -laser cap use bonus is the replacement for a damage bonus on Amarr ships Apoc (gets a 10% cap reduction bonus per level) => damage 7 x Tachyon Beams = 213 Mega (gets a 5% damage bonus per level) => damage 7 x 425 mm rails = 212 here you can see that Tachyon damage = Rail damage the 10% cap bonus is the compensation for a damage bonus! this compensation bonus works fine with Beams but not with pulse lasers That just shattered my view of rails. Thought Mega Beam was equal to 425 Rails...
Xavier Fate Gallente Oblivion Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.02.19 14:41:00 - [10] Quote: okey why is it that lasers are the only turrets that have that "one seize bigger" then all the others.. the tachyon have a modifier that is clearly one seize bigger then all other turrets biggest turrets... we need that extra turrets for all the weaponries so it is fair. or remove tachyon. I declare war on stupidity Been at war with yourself lately? This is definately stupid.
Eisprinzessin	Posted - 2008.02.19 14:57:00 - [11] i have mad a little comparison 3 turrets fittet on a meastrom so no damage bonus from the ship 425mm ral II (antimatter) 36km optimal 30km falloff 36 DPS 3,3cap a sec mega beam laser II (multifrequnecy) 30km optimal 20km falloff 42 dps 7,5 cap a sec tachyon II (multifequency) 33km optimal 25km falloff 46 dps 7,9cap a sec with all skills level 5 those are the facts i dont think it is usefull to compare the guns including ship bonus because the ship bonus is used to define a role for a ship not every amarr ship has cap use bonus and some have rof and damage as well and not every rail boat has damage bonus most caldari ships dont have a damage bonus
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.02.19 15:33:00 - [12] Originally by: Eisprinzessin i have mad a little comparison 3 turrets fittet on a meastrom so no damage bonus from the ship 425mm ral II (antimatter) 36km optimal 30km falloff 36 DPS 3,3cap a sec mega beam laser II (multifrequnecy) 30km optimal 20km falloff 42 dps 7,5 cap a sec tachyon II (multifequency) 33km optimal 25km falloff 46 dps 7,9cap a sec with all skills level 5 those are the facts i dont think it is usefull to compare the guns including ship bonus because the ship bonus is used to define a role for a ship not every amarr ship has cap use bonus and some have rof and damage as well and not every rail boat has damage bonus most caldari ships dont have a damage bonus This was exactly the thing not to do!! You can compare base turret stats, it's the same thing. Now, make a fully tachyon fitted amarr ship, a fully mega beam fitted amarr ship, a fully 425mm fitted gallente/caldari, a fully 1400mm fitted minmatar ship. Then, we can compare fitted ships and say if they work or not. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.19 16:47:00 - [13] Originally by: Testpilot XY Tachyons don¦t do more damage than other turrets.. thats just wrong Weapons are always designed for ships! You cannot compare weapons without the race ship bonus! -Lasers get 25% more base damage than other turrets but they use 100% more cap than rails -laser cap use bonus is the replacement for a damage bonus on Amarr ships Apoc (gets a 10% cap reduction bonus per level) => damage 7 x Tachyon Beams = 213 Mega (gets a 5% damage bonus per level) => damage 7 x 425 mm rails = 212 here you can see that Tachyon damage = Rail damage the 10% cap bonus is the compensation for a damage bonus! this compensation bonus works fine with Beams but not with pulse lasers WRONG!!! Check this http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pT2jhgPoPqKKOY8SZIYtMNg ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Testpilot XY	Posted - 2008.02.19 17:01:00 - [14] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 19/02/2008 16:57:58 Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 19/02/2008 16:57:31 Originally by: Testpilot XY Tachyons don¦t do more damage than other turrets.. thats just wrong Weapons are always designed for ships! You cannot compare weapons without the race ship bonus! -Lasers get 25% more base damage than other turrets but they use 100% more cap than rails -laser cap use bonus is the replacement for a damage bonus on Amarr ships Apoc (gets a 10% cap reduction bonus per level) => damage 7 x Tachyon Beams = 213 Mega (gets a 5% damage bonus per level) => damage 7 x 425 mm rails = 212 here you can see that Tachyon damage = Rail damage the 10% cap bonus is the compensation for a damage bonus! this compensation bonus works fine with Beams but not with pulse lasers WRONG!!! Check this Alpha yeah thats the geddon.. but the geddon get¦s a rof bonus too! the rof bonus works as a second damage bonus
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.02.19 17:11:00 - [15] Nice graph, but I want to know about the optimal range of every setup used in your graph, it is important. Also, there are ships that are better at some ranges, so, making a DPS vs range graph on dynamic ammo type would give a good idea of the result. I have an excel file I can use for this, I only have to update the ship's stats and see if all the T2 weapons needed exist in it. So, what I hope is that every ship can do something the other can't do as good (some may have tanking bonuses too which reduce the DPS and give survival in non 'alpha you're dead' fleet situations). -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Siltan	Posted - 2008.02.20 09:54:00 - [16] Edited by: Siltan on 20/02/2008 09:55:04 dont forget to bring missiles into this too! they need no cap AND they dont need turret slots! I think that is unfair so all missiles should be removed. also Armor tankers have no active 50% resist module accross the board, so I think all shield tanking should be removed. dont forget, some ships cant use drones, so all drones should be removed. What a stupid thread, posters brain has already been nerfed im afraid.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.20 10:58:00 - [17] Originally by: Eleana Tomelac Nice graph, but I want to know about the optimal range of every setup used in your graph, it is important. Also, there are ships that are better at some ranges, so, making a DPS vs range graph on dynamic ammo type would give a good idea of the result. I have an excel file I can use for this, I only have to update the ship's stats and see if all the T2 weapons needed exist in it. So, what I hope is that every ship can do something the other can't do as good (some may have tanking bonuses too which reduce the DPS and give survival in non 'alpha you're dead' fleet situations). problem is, you are unable to make a graph on both discrtete damage over time and distance same time. Anyway the tachyon ships have better range than the arti ones that are the closest competitor. The real drawback of tachyons are INSANE cap usage and very hard to fit. But the newest evrsion of that spreadsheet will have several extra things ,like takign into accoutn the reload time after clip is exausted, startign time of fire based on scan resolution against a defined target signature. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.20 10:59:00 - [18] Originally by: Testpilot XY Originally by: Kagura Nikon Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 19/02/2008 16:57:58 Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 19/02/2008 16:57:31 Originally by: Testpilot XY Tachyons don¦t do more damage than other turrets.. thats just wrong Weapons are always designed for ships! You cannot compare weapons without the race ship bonus! -Lasers get 25% more base damage than other turrets but they use 100% more cap than rails -laser cap use bonus is the replacement for a damage bonus on Amarr ships Apoc (gets a 10% cap reduction bonus per level) => damage 7 x Tachyon Beams = 213 Mega (gets a 5% damage bonus per level) => damage 7 x 425 mm rails = 212 here you can see that Tachyon damage = Rail damage the 10% cap bonus is the compensation for a damage bonus! this compensation bonus works fine with Beams but not with pulse lasers WRONG!!! Check this Alpha yeah thats the geddon.. but the geddon get¦s a rof bonus too! the rof bonus works as a second damage bonus You know 2/3 of amarr battleships have damage bonuses.... the POC is the exception one. Even so it has far far more dps than a megathron. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.20 12:13:00 - [19] I changed chart to include Apoc with Tachyons ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
H'aulana	Posted - 2008.02.20 12:35:00 - [20] Edited by: H''aulana on 20/02/2008 12:36:18 Geddon can make a decent sniper at a cheap price, saying that it outperforms the mega as a sniper due to the graph is just sillyness. Iirc the devs have infact stated that tachs are oversized weps. Taking into account the short range of mega beams as well as the fitting costs of tachs I'd sasy they are fairly balanced, if not slightly gimped. Since amarr need t2 ammo to snipe as well as oversized guns it takes helluva toll on the rest of your fit. //H'aulana
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.02.20 12:57:00 - [21] I used an old spreadsheet and modified it, you may want to take a look at it : http://archangeblandin.free.fr/eve/damage_all_ammo.xls What is not clear at start is what it does when you tell it 'best T1' ammo, I modified it so, when you pick a T2 gun, it will use all ammo including T2, and when you use a T1 gun, it will not use a T2 ammo. It is not really 'T1 ammo', it's all ammo, I didn't change the label when I modified it. Also, I am unsure of what faction ammo option (best pirate, best navy and best rare pirate) can do, I'm afraid it will add 10-20% damage to the T2 ammo too... I had no time to fix it yet. But it can do many different graphs and there is a reloading time option. So, all you want should be there. Don't forget to set the proper values in the ship tab, I modified some to run the tests and I also modified some to match the AF stats in the AF mk II post I made (link in sig). I can't upload the graph I made (because I'm at work and I can't ftp or imageshack), but the apoc does more damage on all distances until it's out of range (and then there's only the rokh that can shoot up to 250km). Even worse, with 4 optimal range mods, the tachyion apoc goes to nearly shooting at 250km, I still needs 3 sensor boosters to reach 250km... So, it ends with a tach apoc > everything in fleet DPS and range. For the alpha, the minmatar still have the upper hand. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Testpilot XY	Posted - 2008.02.20 14:39:00 - [22] Yes the apoc will be one of the best snipers after Trinity 1.1 Apoc will do nice damage but fitting is still not easy (CPU issues) to the Tachyon - Rail balance fitted on sniper ships: the apoc gets the typical Amarr damage replacement bonus (cap use Bonus)and a range bonus the rokh gets a tanking bonus (to force shield tank?) and a range bonus If the rokh would get a damage bonus (5% per level)and a range bonus it would do the same damage as the Apoc but at greater range Beam Lasers: 25% inbuild damage bonus but 100% more cap use => usual ship bonus: 10% cap reduction bonus Railguns: no inbuild damage bonus but normal cap use => usual ship bonus: 5% damage bonus(gallente) or 10% range bonus(replacent bonus for Caldari -to make races different?) if you compare beams in this way: 350mm rails = mega beams 425mm rails = Tachyons
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.20 15:15:00 - [23] Originally by: H'aulana Edited by: H''aulana on 20/02/2008 12:36:18 Geddon can make a decent sniper at a cheap price, saying that it outperforms the mega as a sniper due to the graph is just sillyness. Iirc the devs have infact stated that tachs are oversized weps. Taking into account the short range of mega beams as well as the fitting costs of tachs I'd sasy they are fairly balanced, if not slightly gimped. Since amarr need t2 ammo to snipe as well as oversized guns it takes helluva toll on the rest of your fit. //H'aulana I never stated it outperforms the megathron. I stated it deals more damage than the megathron and with better alpha. Megathron advantage is on fittings and tracking bonus. The Tachyons deal more damage than any other range guns and cost much more to fit. So they are oversized when using this as compare factor. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.02.20 15:42:00 - [24] With tachyions, there are not many ways to do a plated tank, because you need much more powergrid, it means using several reactor control units, where other BS would fit plates. Or dropping the damage mods. So, there's still a counterpart : it's a paper BS with big guns and that's all. On the other hand, large fleets can instapop plated tanks (people react to locking, not peopls shooting them, it's too late), so is it important to think about tank when speaking of fleet BS ? I guess it's not badly balanced, we'll see if the ship becomes the ship to have in fleet or get called 'the paper sniper' for its inability to have tons of HPs. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Brother Welcome Amarr Icarus' Wings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.02.21 12:21:00 - [25] ./signed Nerf Amarr. omgwtflazerzpwn
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.02.23 18:33:00 - [26] ... ... hmm well i like the fact that most people KNOW and the devs have stated that it is a oversizes module, so why again are lasers the only one that have such a oversize module? okey and now for every one saying that rails that gets range bonus are fine... ehhh why? if you can't warp to more then 100km from target you should hardly need those 200 km as basic (rokh+spike) or the 300km at max... I declare war on stupidity
Law Enforcer Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.23 18:52:00 - [27] Edited by: Law Enforcer on 23/02/2008 18:52:59 Originally by: Buyerr ... ... hmm well i like the fact that most people KNOW and the devs have stated that it is a oversizes module, so why again are lasers the only one that have such a oversize module? okey and now for every one saying that rails that gets range bonus are fine... ehhh why? if you can't warp to more then 100km from target you should hardly need those 200 km as basic (rokh+spike) or the 300km at max... do you even play the game? you're asking such blatantly obvious questions. or are you just a total noob that shouldn't be posting in this section? have you ever heard of the term "fleet battleship" or "pos". long range turrets are fine as is but let me guess: you want a 650mm rail gun and 2500mm artillery cannon don't you? it's not like this makes amarr overpowered. you need to completely gimp a geddon or apocs tank to fit them and this leaves the ship paper thin.
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.02.23 19:22:00 - [28] Originally by: Law Enforcer Edited by: Law Enforcer on 23/02/2008 18:52:59 Originally by: Buyerr ... ... hmm well i like the fact that most people KNOW and the devs have stated that it is a oversizes module, so why again are lasers the only one that have such a oversize module? okey and now for every one saying that rails that gets range bonus are fine... ehhh why? if you can't warp to more then 100km from target you should hardly need those 200 km as basic (rokh+spike) or the 300km at max... do you even play the game? you're asking such blatantly obvious questions. or are you just a total noob that shouldn't be posting in this section? have you ever heard of the term "fleet battleship" or "pos". long range turrets are fine as is but let me guess: you want a 650mm rail gun and 2500mm artillery cannon don't you? it's not like this makes amarr overpowered. you need to completely gimp a geddon or apocs tank to fit them and this leaves the ship paper thin. hehe i love when ******s say " you're a noob rable rable" it just shows you have neither thoughts nor intelligent. yes i know fleet and pos fights (pos you almost never try to siege with bs's no you use dreads) in fleet battle you don't need more range then 150km at max. but if you have read the new dev blog you would know that only 19% of the player base is even IN 0.0 so 81% of the player base is not even being considered in any of these things you're taking in consideration (since it is pretty clear you're talking about 0.0 fleet fights and pos sieges) I declare war on stupidity
Law Enforcer Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.02.23 21:33:00 - [29] Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Law Enforcer Edited by: Law Enforcer on 23/02/2008 18:52:59 Originally by: Buyerr ... ... hmm well i like the fact that most people KNOW and the devs have stated that it is a oversizes module, so why again are lasers the only one that have such a oversize module? okey and now for every one saying that rails that gets range bonus are fine... ehhh why? if you can't warp to more then 100km from target you should hardly need those 200 km as basic (rokh+spike) or the 300km at max... do you even play the game? you're asking such blatantly obvious questions. or are you just a total noob that shouldn't be posting in this section? have you ever heard of the term "fleet battleship" or "pos". long range turrets are fine as is but let me guess: you want a 650mm rail gun and 2500mm artillery cannon don't you? it's not like this makes amarr overpowered. you need to completely gimp a geddon or apocs tank to fit them and this leaves the ship paper thin. hehe i love when ******s say " you're a noob rable rable" it just shows you have neither thoughts nor intelligent. yes i know fleet and pos fights (pos you almost never try to siege with bs's no you use dreads) in fleet battle you don't need more range then 150km at max. but if you have read the new dev blog you would know that only 19% of the player base is even IN 0.0 so 81% of the player base is not even being considered in any of these things you're taking in consideration (since it is pretty clear you're talking about 0.0 fleet fights and pos sieges) haha, you speak of intelligence? coming from the guy who can't even spell "size" correctly. the amount of people in or out of low-sec/0.0 has nothing to do with how turrets are balanced. yes, you're right. all POS's are killed by dreadnoughts and not battleships. we're just going to ignore ALL of the smaller alliances that don't field dreads and we're also going to ignore all POS's in 0.5 and above. anything closer then 150km to a large tower is suicide so YES the range bonus is important. it has a higher damage modifier but much less range. you don't need to gimp a rokh to fit 8x 425mm II's like you need to "completely" gimp an apoc to fit 8x tachyon II's. range: rails dps: tachyons alpha: artillary I really don't see a problem with the turret and neither do the devs or they would have been nerfed.
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.02.24 14:32:00 - [30] Originally by: Law Enforcer Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Law Enforcer Edited by: Law Enforcer on 23/02/2008 18:52:59 Originally by: Buyerr ... ... hmm well i like the fact that most people KNOW and the devs have stated that it is a oversizes module, so why again are lasers the only one that have such a oversize module? okey and now for every one saying that rails that gets range bonus are fine... ehhh why? if you can't warp to more then 100km from target you should hardly need those 200 km as basic (rokh+spike) or the 300km at max... do you even play the game? you're asking such blatantly obvious questions. or are you just a total noob that shouldn't be posting in this section? have you ever heard of the term "fleet battleship" or "pos". long range turrets are fine as is but let me guess: you want a 650mm rail gun and 2500mm artillery cannon don't you? it's not like this makes amarr overpowered. you need to completely gimp a geddon or apocs tank to fit them and this leaves the ship paper thin. hehe i love when ******s say " you're a noob rable rable" it just shows you have neither thoughts nor intelligent. yes i know fleet and pos fights (pos you almost never try to siege with bs's no you use dreads) in fleet battle you don't need more range then 150km at max. but if you have read the new dev blog you would know that only 19% of the player base is even IN 0.0 so 81% of the player base is not even being considered in any of these things you're taking in consideration (since it is pretty clear you're talking about 0.0 fleet fights and pos sieges) haha, you speak of intelligence? coming from the guy who can't even spell "size" correctly. the amount of people in or out of low-sec/0.0 has nothing to do with how turrets are balanced. yes, you're right. all POS's are killed by dreadnoughts and not battleships. we're just going to ignore ALL of the smaller alliances that don't field dreads and we're also going to ignore all POS's in 0.5 and above. anything closer then 150km to a large tower is suicide so YES the range bonus is important. it has a higher damage modifier but much less range. you don't need to gimp a rokh to fit 8x 425mm II's like you need to "completely" gimp an apoc to fit 8x tachyon II's. range: rails dps: tachyons alpha: artillary I really don't see a problem with the turret and neither do the devs or they would have been nerfed. take a rokh and a abbadon and fit them both for sniping the rokh can choice the range and the abbadon arn't allowed to close in, lets just say he say's 250 which is max locking range (actually 249,9) the abbadon have no problem reaching that range with tachions the rokh will reach it without even trying, difference is that the abbadon will rip the rokh apart both speaking of dps and tanking abillity. besides a warp in point of a max of 100km will just make it even worse which means effectively the rokh will not even need it' s bonus at all to reach the range it needs. if they wanted to make range as an advantise they would need to increase warp in range and locking range to 500km +- thereby also adding a tactical element (although warp as it is now would need a bit of work). ps. intelligence is not the same as knowledge, which you clearly think since you're saying the fact that i don'twrite my third languesh fluently and without error's makes me stupid. I declare war on stupidity

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