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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2884
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Posted - 2012.02.19 11:13:00 -
[31] - Quote
Considering your "7 Year Old Veteran" posts are not very insightful or indeed reminiscent of anything like your supposed seven year experience, I'm just going to go ahead and file your proposal in the bin, thanks.
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
23
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Posted - 2012.02.19 18:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
They should modify all payouts regardless of location with output from an algorithm containing "residents", "visitors" and "deaths" (read: base it on actual risk rather than theoretical risk).
But of course, that would mean lowsec gets the best income as it has the most risk with null a distant second so doubtful that such a thing makes it by the null censors |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2997
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Posted - 2012.02.19 19:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
I'd like to propose a different way of looking at hi-sec incomes: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=26049 Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
58
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Posted - 2012.02.19 21:23:00 -
[34] - Quote
Dipluz wrote:same old stuff!
I fail to understand why so many miss the point.
In the balance between risk and reward perhaps it is not the reward that needs balancing but the risk. Things stay in high sec because so many players are risk averse. CCP has tried many times (at the whims of folks like the OP) to adjust this but far too often they miss the mark.
You could move all level 4 missions, ice, datacore production and the like to low sec or 0.0 and it would have a far less profound affect than adjusting risk.
Case in point?
T3 interdiction nullification and sensor amplification modules. The rewards did not change yet far more people were (are) willing to risk sneaking into lower security since there was the perceived chance they might survive more than a few seconds.
Just a few ideas. Make NPC pirates more likely to attack new people that enter a complex or deadspace. Allow modules that can burst confuse probes allowing for a speedy get away. Create tanky industrials and exhumers that can actually defend themselves or at least survive the most trivial attacks.
Changing rewards will not affect behavior (other than cancelled subscriptions). Instead, adjust mechanics that make it more possible to evade and survive in lawless space in a PVE ship. No matter how much you adjust rewards a large number of people will find it more profitable to simply do more volume of the activity that is safer than less volume of an activity they perceive guarantees loss.
My 2 isks
Patri
Miners! Make Moar Isks Nao! |
Tekashi Kovacs
Golfclap Inc
3
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Posted - 2012.02.19 22:36:00 -
[35] - Quote
Decreasing an hi-sec rewards will NEVER EVER bring more people to low-sec/0.0. Get over it and stop being jealous OP. |
Dipluz
Notorious Legion Mildly Intoxicated
17
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Posted - 2012.02.19 22:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tekashi Kovacs wrote:Decreasing an hi-sec rewards will NEVER EVER bring more people to low-sec/0.0. Get over it and stop being jealous OP.
jealous ? ehm that I will never be of highsec of anything in life. |
Mechael
Team Pizza Viro Mors Non Est
36
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Posted - 2012.02.20 08:25:00 -
[37] - Quote
Just get level 4's out of highsec altogether. What on earth are all of the pirate battleships that are hostile to all of the factions AND concord doing in a 1.0 security system, anyway?
+1 to the OP, because it's better than leaving this problem alone. I'd rather die in battle against a man who will lie to me, than for a man who will lie to me. |
Mechael
Team Pizza Viro Mors Non Est
36
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Posted - 2012.02.20 08:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:They should modify all payouts regardless of location with output from an algorithm containing "residents", "visitors" and "deaths" (read: base it on actual risk rather than theoretical risk). But of course, that would mean lowsec gets the best income as it has the most risk with null a distant second so doubtful that such a thing makes it by the null censors
This would be great, and is an idea that can be expanded on. I'd rather die in battle against a man who will lie to me, than for a man who will lie to me. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
815
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Posted - 2012.02.22 12:26:00 -
[39] - Quote
Andski wrote:Tanya Powers wrote:Dipluz wrote: boring rabble by null sec random pawn I'll agree with you the day where null sec will be free o absolutely all the null sec rating bots (hundreds and even thousands of those but seems ccp can't do a crap about it) Because a single rating bot in null sec in his drake is completely intouchable, and does for about 700M to over 1B a day. Where's your risk when you know CCP can't do a **** about it and that your perfect bot docks/kiss the poss if some neutral appears? C'mon intelligent guy I'm sure you have an answer al made for this. Now there are hundreds of those in Tengus and carriers, what is your proposal about this? So your ols rabble about high sec income not only is flawded but it's once again to previlege those already crawling on billions of isk, the same ones buying characters on toons bazaar very often, most of those have lots of alts since it's easy to pay their sub right? Idiot ideas are idiot. it's as if you've totally glossed over l4 bots, because of course nobody bots in highsec
Who cares of your rabble? - besides bot users or individuals who never step on high sec because they don't need, no one on his right mind will not change this fact simple fact that yes there are probably a lot of bots in high sec but there's not where they are for the most and where they are the most profitable.
Hello drones regions? -ho boy with mineral prices right now those dudes are doing gazillions of isk per month, they don't need tech crap
Rats (BS) with bounty starting at 650K up to 1.2M in belts, sanctums, heavens, forsakens, faction spawns etc you can kill those indefinitely as long as you have ammo in your cargo and never stop to loot because will make you loose isk/h. All you need is a safe spot BM or POS whenever nutral/red shown up, who can assure it's a bot or not?
Now tell us all about high sec bots and how you, so smart, identify those to state that high sec is all about bots and more than in null sec. What about start cleaning your own homelands and alliance/corps before rabble about high sec? Every one in null knows your null sec alliances politics, you're not cops and it's not your job to help CCP clean bots, you even threat to purge those individuals or corps who might have reported bots. Bravo big guy.
I hunt in every alliance systems enough to safely say the only way to make far more isk in high sec than rating in null is to do incursions but even then, compare what it can be, null sec incursions are hundred times more profitable and those are done almost 24h/7 just like in high sec (I know a few doing it to pay themselves the titan or the SC and the guy with enough spare time in his day can double/triple high sec billions incursions income easily.
Propaganda, myths, is all you can do about high sec because you're either the greatest idiot on earth and can't see what happens in high sec or you're just another of those who comes back playing after a few years and think he's back in stone age... wake up dude. |
Mallak Azaria
Dominus Nex Angelus
57
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Posted - 2012.02.23 03:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
Battle On wrote:i think the only thing they need to adjust is the mining sector. these days mining isnt that safe at it was. there are too many gankers these days and you can easily pop a hulk with boosts and an orca supporting it with just 2 or maybe 3 low sp destroyers. so the risk has gone up but the reward hasnt. therefor i think there needs to be something new for miners. also you can only mine for 6mill/hour with a decent hulk. this is just way too low. Incursions and missions shouldnt get any asjustments simply because they are already good. at the moment you can make around 40-60mil/hour doing lvl 4 missions + salvaging them. this is easily doable without any high risks. incursion require communication skills, a group of people and still has a high risk of losing your ship. also you need to have a good ship + good skills to run them good enough to be able to contest other fleets. therefor the reward is higher and is at a steady 70-120mill Exploration in highsec still has a high reward but requires the skills to scan sites.
so really if you compare it all, the only thing that needs to be adjust is the mining sector. the rest is balanced
You completely missed the point the OP was making. I don't really care so much about the highsec miners. To me, mining in highsec completely defeats the purpose of mining in the first place.
As for missions... I've been running them on & off for the past year-ish taking a break from 0.0 & such... Even I agree that the ammount of isk I'm earning in highsec with little risk is too high. I won't even start on Incursions...
OP, I agree with you completely.
+1
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Last Lefts
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.02.23 14:34:00 -
[41] - Quote
Nullsec is boring.
Quit complaining about overbuffed highsec payouts and make nullsec worth playing in.
Then look at whether highsec payouts are too high. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
210
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Posted - 2012.02.23 17:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
ItGÇÖs really the entire reward system, and not just high-sec income, that needs tweaking. The system should reward people for:
1.) Dynamic Risks (based on the likelihood of losing your ship/pod to NPC's and/or Players). 2.) Investment Risks (be it raw isk, time, and/or structures in space). 3.) Social Risks (reward working as a group, especially if violating the social trust results in losses).
Most of the time, the Risks from NPCs are much less than the risks from players, and this needs to be heavily accounted for. On the surface, our system attempts the above, but has enough skewed areas to throw the current system out of balance!
IMO, high-sec incursions do provide too much reward for their risk when compared to most lowsec/nullsec opportunities. They essentially break the risk vs reward paradigm that encourages players to venture into lowsec and nullsec for "bigger" rewards. However, they also provide an extremely beneficial service to EvE by creating an environment for teamwork. And lets be frank, learning to play in a team is pretty much at the core of living in lowsec and nullsec. And I fully support game mechanics that encourage teamplay, meaning there should be definite advantages and rewards for doing so. Personally, I think the primary nerf high-sec incursions need involve truly randomizing the spawn triggers. Make it so people blitzing them in the minimum-sized groups have serious risks to earn their dough. Alternatively, they could run them in much larger groups, maintain their safety, but sacrifice their rewards in doing so!
Mission running is very much a solo activity.. It's also the standard pathway for characters to earn money and gain mock combat experience while they grow pubic hairs and venture into the more PvP oriented regions of EvE. It is also an important transition activity, where players can build up isk reserves while they transition from one area (or Corp) of the game to another. Again, actually randomizing mission spawns and probably revamping the mission tiers so the difficulty levels of missions better reflect the combat and tanking ability of today's combat vessels would be appropriate. Unfortunately, given today's classes of ships, most missions really have very little risks.
I have very little experience in lowsec, and don't feel qualified to accurately depict how things should change from how they currently are. I think that low-sec rewards should probably be just as profitable as nullsec rewards, albeit in a different manner. Meaning, I don't think low-sec should have the crazy anom-spawning income of null, but they should have very good-paying missions instead.
True nullsec rewards should involve significant investment risks as well as dynamic risks. Currently, the sov upgrade system allows for a nice investment risk, but the ability to capture any system anytime is somewhat out of line. The dynamic risks in nullsec also need review; specifically afk cloakers and hotdrops. Null-bears are typically whiny morons that make high-sec carebears look like hardcore bittervets. Just look at all the "wah, wah, afk cloaker in system prevents me from ratting, wah, wah, wah" threads. I live in nullsec, I don't have blues, and a hostile in system doesn't prevent me from ratting. Dealing with a few nuets in system should be something every nullsec capsuleer overcomes by grouping up and/or flying smart. Altering hotdrop mechanics so locals can better assess the danger a neut represents is reasonable, but either leave AFK cloakers alone, or replace local with an intel tool that leaves some pilot ambiguity before nerfing cloaks. Then, and only then, should nullsec anoms pay out better than lvl 4 missions! The point I'm trying to make with all these jabs at different game aspects, is that the risk paradigm in nullsec is should be a high-paying, but high-risk. The truth is, most null-bears want the pay, but don't want any real risk and they don't want to work in groups.
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Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
65
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Posted - 2012.02.23 19:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
Dude this is a ridiculous proposal and I don't even live in high sec usually.
One of the biggest reasons that high-sec is full of "carebears" is because alliances don't need or want them.
Ask Goons or PL if they will accept your medium sized mining corp into their ranks... See what the response is.
I have said this many times.
If you move t2 production away from moons and into the 0.0 belts ONLY (not high sec belts AT ALL), then people MUST therefore mine those belts for ANY t2 production to go on ANYWHERE, AT ALL.
It would fix a great many things I feel, from the 0.0 culture of "pvpers only" to the "highsec carebear zone" to the inability of many of those industrialists to get into the t2 market because the moons and moongoo is all owned by very few.
There's heaps of reasons to do it, I'm yet to find a reason not to do it.
Manufacturing Papercuts ***CSM Interstellar Debate - Mining Profession**
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