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Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.24 14:54:00 - [91] Originally by: kublai Actually, AWAR pvps by far mostly in 0.0, IRON's 0.0 to be completely specific I do not only root for bob due to a changing balance though, make no mistake, I am an elitist bastard who looks down upon the low sp hordes, well, most of them anyway, some are cute (hi intigo!). At this point I have to say that I absolutely loved watching Agony completely wipe the floor with Cult of War in the last alliance tournament (and not just because I was in Agony at the time).
kublai Art of War	Posted - 2008.02.24 14:57:00 - [92] Edited by: kublai on 24/02/2008 14:57:17 Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: kublai Actually, AWAR pvps by far mostly in 0.0, IRON's 0.0 to be completely specific I do not only root for bob due to a changing balance though, make no mistake, I am an elitist bastard who looks down upon the low sp hordes, well, most of them anyway, some are cute (hi intigo!). At this point I have to say that I absolutely loved watching Agony completely wipe the floor with Cult of War in the last alliance tournament (and not just because I was in Agony at the time). Goons getting the goon treatment I retort with something a little more representative than 10 guys hurridly put together for fun My dear goon,, you may now go back to your hole. ------ Art of War is recruiting - Think you got what it takes? Buying sig - eve-mail "Jonny 101"
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.24 15:02:00 - [93] Originally by: kublai Edited by: kublai on 24/02/2008 14:57:17 Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: kublai Actually, AWAR pvps by far mostly in 0.0, IRON's 0.0 to be completely specific I do not only root for bob due to a changing balance though, make no mistake, I am an elitist bastard who looks down upon the low sp hordes, well, most of them anyway, some are cute (hi intigo!). At this point I have to say that I absolutely loved watching Agony completely wipe the floor with Cult of War in the last alliance tournament (and not just because I was in Agony at the time). Goons getting the goon treatment I retort with something a little more representative than 10 guys hurridly put together for fun My dear goon,, you may now go back to your hole. I'm sorry that I somehow gave you the impression that I would be someone interested in watching one of your e-peen stroking videos. I didn't mean to.
kublai Art of War	Posted - 2008.02.24 15:05:00 - [94] I'm sorry, you gave the impression you wanted to point out an incident where CoW managed to lose..10 ships? I just felt like pointing out an incident where you lost a few hundred to us and our cow friends ------ Art of War is recruiting - Think you got what it takes? Buying sig - eve-mail "Jonny 101"
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.24 15:05:00 - [95] Originally by: HEY LISTEN Defining winning as taking away ppls space is a little shortsighted considering goons and your own history for that matter. Admitedly BOB does not have MM space to hide in until the bad men go away but the fact is that unless you scatter the membership of BOB all you are doing is wasting your time by blobbing their space off them. I would have thought RAZOR out of all the alliances in EVE would understand that taking somebodys space is hardly winning but then i suppose now its you on the offensive you need summat tangible to declare victory about. Needless to say this is correct. :) I was just becomeing abit long winded already and when I bring those parts it up it ****s up the thread so lets focus on territory first ok? --- "Cutting Edge 4 Life"
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.24 15:06:00 - [96] Originally by: kublai I'm sorry, you gave the impression you wanted to point out an incident where CoW managed to lose..10 ships? No, I just wanted to point out that I enjoyed watching it.
kublai Art of War	Posted - 2008.02.24 15:13:00 - [97] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: kublai I'm sorry, you gave the impression you wanted to point out an incident where CoW managed to lose..10 ships? No, I just wanted to point out that I enjoyed watching it. Well I enjoy watching you guys die too, and if I got my stats right, I have had, and will keep having a lot more enjoyment than you'll ever see ------ Art of War is recruiting - Think you got what it takes? Buying sig - eve-mail "Jonny 101"
HEY LISTEN i swear this is true	Posted - 2008.02.24 15:16:00 - [98] Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 24/02/2008 15:19:49 Originally by: Fred0 Originally by: HEY LISTEN Defining winning as taking away ppls space is a little shortsighted considering goons and your own history for that matter. Admitedly BOB does not have MM space to hide in until the bad men go away but the fact is that unless you scatter the membership of BOB all you are doing is wasting your time by blobbing their space off them. I would have thought RAZOR out of all the alliances in EVE would understand that taking somebodys space is hardly winning but then i suppose now its you on the offensive you need summat tangible to declare victory about. Needless to say this is correct. :) I was just becomeing abit long winded already and when I bring those parts it up it ****s up the thread so lets focus on territory first ok? Your focusing on terratory because its all you think your blob is good for and although thats mostly the truth you should realy use it better. Your focusing on taking all the space off BOB and that is a mistake imho as leaving them a little bit of space (so you know where they are) and wearing them down so their members leave the alliance is what you should be doing if you realy wanna beat them and destroy the alliance itself. But considering your attendance issues and other factors i suppose declaring victory after you remove BOB sov from all the systems in eve and ignoring the fact that your members will hardly be willing to chase them all over eve proly seems better in the short term. Marakor for godhood
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.02.24 15:24:00 - [99] Originally by: Luthien Firefoot so you bought the account, thanks for clearing that up for us. You are somehow funny. But since you continue to urge this, no I didn't buy that account, it is my own from the beginning on. But probably you will throw dirty now at me and won't believe me anyway shrugs Why should I care, I don't. I know this behaviour from BoB in the past (gladly that changed), now I know it from goons and iron. And to X13, have fun and be lag free. But maybe in other places you would do more damage to the coalition and would have much less lag.
Ivor Gunn No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition	Posted - 2008.02.24 15:55:00 - [100] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: kublai I'm sorry, you gave the impression you wanted to point out an incident where CoW managed to lose..10 ships? No, I just wanted to point out that I enjoyed watching it. Hahahaha, look at the little pubbie squirm.

MAXSuicide Cosmic Fusion When Fat Kids Attack	Posted - 2008.02.24 18:27:00 - [101] Originally by: Crax McGee max/daily/goo. let me kno if you need any guys for ur tourny team xx goo's on an oilrig somewhere in the north sea right now.. talk to daily ;)
Joker47	Posted - 2008.02.24 19:19:00 - [102] Tread derailing lvl 5
Gumpy Nighthawk Amarr Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.24 19:24:00 - [103] Originally by: HEY LISTEN Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 24/02/2008 15:19:49 Originally by: Fred0 Originally by: HEY LISTEN Defining winning as taking away ppls space is a little shortsighted considering goons and your own history for that matter. Admitedly BOB does not have MM space to hide in until the bad men go away but the fact is that unless you scatter the membership of BOB all you are doing is wasting your time by blobbing their space off them. I would have thought RAZOR out of all the alliances in EVE would understand that taking somebodys space is hardly winning but then i suppose now its you on the offensive you need summat tangible to declare victory about. Needless to say this is correct. :) I was just becomeing abit long winded already and when I bring those parts it up it ****s up the thread so lets focus on territory first ok? Your focusing on terratory because its all you think your blob is good for and although thats mostly the truth you should realy use it better. Your focusing on taking all the space off BOB and that is a mistake imho as leaving them a little bit of space (so you know where they are) and wearing them down so their members leave the alliance is what you should be doing if you realy wanna beat them and destroy the alliance itself. But considering your attendance issues and other factors i suppose declaring victory after you remove BOB sov from all the systems in eve and ignoring the fact that your members will hardly be willing to chase them all over eve proly seems better in the short term. Man we should really hire you, your ideas are so awesome.....
Kilostream Caldari Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.24 22:51:00 - [104] Originally by: HEY LISTEN ....i suppose declaring victory after you remove BOB sov from all the systems in eve and ignoring the fact that your members will hardly be willing to chase them all over eve proly seems better in the short term.... I'm not in anything even approaching a command position in the coalition, so I don't really know if you're right or wrong but, from a purely logical viewpoint I'd say that declaring victory after removing sov is the only time it [victory] can really be declared, as there's no other solid point of reference at this stage. What I mean by that is (if you were to take BoBs losing of all it's space as a given for the sake of argument), then what comes after cannot safely be predicted (by someone in the coalition, at least). BoB could disband, it could stay together, it could shake off the GBC and restructure itself as a smaller, more manageable entity, it could re-take some of the same or other territory on a smaller scale, or go straight for broke and try to build another empire like they had six months ago - any number of possibilities emerge after the sov is gone, so whether or not the coalition would be able or willing to "chase them all over eve" is a moot point. So, if you wouldn't focus on the territory, and declare victory when there is no sov left.......when would YOU do it? I know I'm biased, but I think Fred0's got not only the right focus, but the only focus it's reasonable to have, given the circumstances.
HEY LISTEN i swear this is true	Posted - 2008.02.24 23:13:00 - [105] Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 24/02/2008 23:14:58 Originally by: Kilostream So, if you wouldn't focus on the territory, and declare victory when there is no sov left.......when would YOU do it? I know I'm biased, but I think Fred0's got not only the right focus, but the only focus it's reasonable to have, given the circumstances. The only time victory can be truly claimed is when BOB disbands and disperses until then you have not destroyed them you have only displaced them. Marakor for godhood
Kilostream Caldari Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.25 01:20:00 - [106] Originally by: HEY LISTEN ....The only time victory can be truly claimed is when BOB disbands and disperses until then you have not destroyed them you have only displaced them.... I thought about it, but I'm not sure I agree with that - to quote a relevant historical example, when the MC train came around last year and RZR lost Tenal I think it's fair to say they were victorious, because they met their objective and beat us on the battlefield on the day. Simply because RZR stayed together as a unit and were able to salvage something in the aftermath would seem poor grounds to deny that MC + entourage had achieved a victory. More recently with FIX too - Querious was the objective, it fell and I don't think it's unfair to pigeonhole that in the "coalition victories" category purely because FIX as an entity is still in existence today.
thoth foc Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2008.02.25 01:31:00 - [107] Originally by: Kilostream Originally by: HEY LISTEN ....The only time victory can be truly claimed is when BOB disbands and disperses until then you have not destroyed them you have only displaced them.... I thought about it, but I'm not sure I agree with that - to quote a relevant historical example, when the MC train came around last year and RZR lost Tenal I think it's fair to say they were victorious, because they met their objective and beat us on the battlefield on the day. The mistake you are making is thinking tenal was the objective.. The objective is always to make the opponent feel defeated.. _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) ATUK (.5.) DICE (BOB) xElcyion Lacar
HEY LISTEN i swear this is true	Posted - 2008.02.25 01:33:00 - [108] Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 25/02/2008 01:33:59 Originally by: Kilostream Originally by: HEY LISTEN ....The only time victory can be truly claimed is when BOB disbands and disperses until then you have not destroyed them you have only displaced them.... I thought about it, but I'm not sure I agree with that - to quote a relevant historical example, when the MC train came around last year and RZR lost Tenal I think it's fair to say they were victorious, because they met their objective and beat us on the battlefield on the day. Simply because RZR stayed together as a unit and were able to salvage something in the aftermath would seem poor grounds to deny that MC + entourage had achieved a victory. More recently with FIX too - Querious was the objective, it fell and I don't think it's unfair to pigeonhole that in the "coalition victories" category purely because FIX as an entity is still in existence today. So you will have been victorious in achieving an objective in the war too destroy BOB, im sure it will make all the ppl who wanna go home (like MM and others already have) very happy and give them summat to cheer about on caod when you do it. Marakor for godhood
rValdez5987 Amarr Killed In Action The Crimson Federation	Posted - 2008.02.25 05:00:00 - [109] Until BoB has been disbanded, how can you call it a victory.. You know as well as I, that your only borrowing their space. As long as they exist im sure they will keep making pushes and keep a hold on 0.0 territory somewhere in eve. All I gotta say is, if they do get removed from delve completely, the smaller alliances in the north better watch out.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.25 07:36:00 - [110] Originally by: HEY LISTEN Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 24/02/2008 23:14:58 Originally by: Kilostream So, if you wouldn't focus on the territory, and declare victory when there is no sov left.......when would YOU do it? I know I'm biased, but I think Fred0's got not only the right focus, but the only focus it's reasonable to have, given the circumstances. The only time victory can be truly claimed is when BOB disbands and disperses until then you have not destroyed them you have only displaced them. Destroying and defeating are completely different things. A displaced BoB is a defeated BoB. They are, and have always been, a territory holding alliance, not a nomadic one raiding here and there. Without their territory BoB is not BoB as they have always existed before. There is no other way to measure the success of a territorial alliance except in the territory they hold. And in either case why would anyone in the Coalition even care about a BoB alliance hanging out in empire or in some npc region in 0.0? That doesn't mean that they can't come back and take new territory after that (although I seriously doubt they will), but it doesn't change the fact that they will be defeated when they lose all their territory.

HEY LISTEN i swear this is true	Posted - 2008.02.25 09:42:00 - [111] Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 25/02/2008 09:44:18 Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: HEY LISTEN Originally by: Kilostream So, if you wouldn't focus on the territory, and declare victory when there is no sov left.......when would YOU do it? I know I'm biased, but I think Fred0's got not only the right focus, but the only focus it's reasonable to have, given the circumstances. The only time victory can be truly claimed is when BOB disbands and disperses until then you have not destroyed them you have only displaced them. Destroying and defeating are completely different things. A displaced BoB is a defeated BoB. And in either case why would anyone in the Coalition even care about a BoB alliance hanging out in empire or in some npc region in 0.0?. Id say that BOB are hardly the standard wandering pvp corp or alliance as they have a huge capital fleet and several titans. GOONS and others have been out to kill BOB from the start of the offensive and now your coalition is showing signs of wear you are redefining victory as summat that you think you can actually achieve with your mega nap before more ppl go home. Let me guess... your using the one last big push speech?. I suppose BOB did redefine its objectives when it became clear that your blob had no in game skillful solution so i suppose you needed to redefine winning when you realised that all you can do is blob their systems off them. Marakor for godhood
Luthien Firefoot Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.02.25 12:59:00 - [112] Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: Luthien Firefoot so you bought the account, thanks for clearing that up for us. You are somehow funny. But since you continue to urge this, no I didn't buy that account, it is my own from the beginning on. But probably you will throw dirty now at me and won't believe me anyway shrugs Why should I care, I don't. I know this behaviour from BoB in the past (gladly that changed), now I know it from goons and iron. And to X13, have fun and be lag free. But maybe in other places you would do more damage to the coalition and would have much less lag. ok, so you bought the account and don't wanna admit it, that's fine as well, just don't insult everyones intelligence by trying to pretend that you used to hate bob, but now they are so nice and so now you hate goons coz they are evil. It's so obivious you're a bob or fanbois, it's kinda funny really.
HoIIy Smoke eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:10:00 - [113] does it really matter which of you lot wins or loses as long as you are all targets? as for X13 welcome to the playground.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:14:00 - [114] Edited by: Hannobaal on 25/02/2008 16:16:15 Originally by: HEY LISTEN Id say that BOB are hardly the standard wandering pvp corp or alliance as they have a huge capital fleet and several titans. GOONS and others have been out to kill BOB from the start of the offensive and now your coalition is showing signs of wear you are redefining victory as summat that you think you can actually achieve with your mega nap before more ppl go home. Let me guess... your using the one last big push speech?. I suppose BOB did redefine its objectives when it became clear that your blob had no in game skillful solution so i suppose you needed to redefine winning when you realised that all you can do is blob their systems off them. No one is redifining any objectives, and there's hardly any "sign of wear". BoB are 5 station systems short of what they had before the offensive started. Of the station systems we've tried to take so far only one siege has failed and that's NOL. That's it. The other systems have all fallen. BoB have not regained (or even tried to regain) any of the systems they've lost. And the only reason NOL didn't fall is because we didn't have the participation (or the "blob" as people like you put it). BoB, on the other hand, did have the "blob". No one can make BoB disband as an alliance except BoB. It is not possible in this game, with the game mechanics we have, to force an alliance to cease to exist. To say that BoB is not defeated until they disband is bizarre. It that was the case there'd be no point in fighting them at all. The only ones here redefining the victory conditions are BoB fan boys like you because BoB losing turns your whole elitist world view upside down or something.... BoB may disband as a result of losing the war and being pushed out of 0.0. Or they may not. But that's a whole different issue.
Amorphia Caldari NeXuS' DaRkNesS	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:15:00 - [115] Edited by: Amorphia on 25/02/2008 16:17:23 Originally by: Lasakywa You have the choice to fight in lagfest or not..And you chose lagfest..Mmkay, good luck have fun there I guess , Vent is fearing now Mass Weapon of disuasion...Good luck ------- From The Craddle To Your Grave ! -------
HEY LISTEN i swear this is true	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:30:00 - [116] Originally by: Hannobaal The only ones here redefining the victory conditions are BoB fan boys like you because BoB losing turns your whole elitist world view upside down or something.... BoB may disband as a result of losing the war and being pushed out of 0.0. Or they may not. But that's a whole different issue. Im not revising or redefining anything in fact im basing my points on history in fact yours and other alliances history at that ffs. If you wanna go down the road BOB did when they kicked the crap out of you then go ahead and say "there is no BOB" or other "victory chants" the wording is not important the fact that you have not won until they have disbanded is and you know it. Marakor for godhood
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:35:00 - [117] Originally by: Hannobaal Destroying and defeating are completely different things. A displaced BoB is a defeated BoB. They are, and have always been, a territory holding alliance, not a nomadic one raiding here and there. Learn your history, because your statement is uneducated and false. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:46:00 - [118] Edited by: Hannobaal on 25/02/2008 16:46:21 Originally by: HEY LISTEN If you wanna go down the road BOB did when they kicked the crap out of you then go ahead and say "there is no BOB" Why would I do that? I'm not an idiot. (Also, BoB never kicked the crap out of me. Actually, even though I instinctively disliked BoB as an alliance from the very beginning when I started playing little more than a year ago, I didn't even know that part of the story of what they did to Goons until a few months ago when I joined Igneus. ) Quote: the wording is not important the fact that you have not won until they have disbanded is and you know it. If you insist on defining the victory conditions for the war in such a way so that defeating BoB is not possible (unless they do it to themselves), then go right ahead. It's not like it makes any real difference.
BitchInCharge Head-Hunters	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:50:00 - [119] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Hannobaal Destroying and defeating are completely different things. A displaced BoB is a defeated BoB. They are, and have always been, a territory holding alliance, not a nomadic one raiding here and there. Learn your history, because your statement is false. Originally by: Hannobaal I'm not an idiot.
HEY LISTEN i swear this is true	Posted - 2008.02.25 17:57:00 - [120] Edited by: HEY LISTEN on 25/02/2008 17:58:31 Originally by: Hannobaal If you insist on defining the victory conditions for the war in such a way so that defeating BoB is not possible (unless they do it to themselves), then go right ahead. It's not like it makes any real difference. I suggest you check goons history before you start making stupid claims as im defining victory conditions exactly how goons defined them when BOB removed all the sov they had. Marakor for godhood



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