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Dotries	Posted - 2008.02.25 15:02:00 - [1] I have come to the conclusion the Devs that do play are gankers. I say this because they effectively removed any "flight" options. When faced with an impending attack a persons options are 'fight' or 'flight'. Flight is not an option. I've read "CCP wants you to commit to the fight." HA! commit to the gank is more accurate. We had WCSs, they nerfed those crazy. So if we 'Adapt' and fit more stabs and deal with the 'borked ship' we end up with, they give us bubbles. Effectively making the WCS a useless mod. So we 'adapt' again and think nano to escape bubbles. Nope, MWDs don't work in bubbles. Cloak? Nope, with the existance of insta lock ships/setups that's not a possibility. Think outside the box? I'm open for any suggestions that are not blob (lag-fest) dependant. So I conclude that the Devs play this game and when someone(s) are escaping thier gangs, they themselves don't "think outside the box" they just nerf whatever means were/are used to escape them. Where is the "balance"? Where is the "everything has a counter"? Here are suggestions for you all to flame on: WCS: Remove the 1/2 targeting range penalty. "But everyone will fit a WCS!" you say? I say Bull-malarky. "EVERYONE" will not give up the slot when really, to be more effective you would have to give up two slots. You have 2-point scrams, yet no 2-point stabs. THAT is fair-enough. Bubbles: Make MWDs work in these please. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think they do. At least that is what all the corpies were telling me when mine didn't activate in a bubble. Again, it is only the CHANCE to escape I'm looking for. A CHANCE, a balance between fight or flight. A means to disengage if needed. I have snuck around these forums to hear all the 'whines' from the ganker/griefers "WAAA CCP! That hauler/cruiser/whatever won't just sit there and let me/us explode them!" I believe the devs play as ganker/griefers and that gives them the most jollies and they want the victims to just sit there also, so they introduce infinite point scramming ships, bubbles and nerf whatever means others develop to escape. Give us back the option of fight OR flight. -------------- Stupid Monkey.
Lara Renquist Minmatar The Phoenix Confederacy	Posted - 2008.02.25 15:06:00 - [2] Your sig explains your post... Commanding officer Of The Phoenix Confederacy
MaDeX XxTiggerxX Corp	Posted - 2008.02.25 15:06:00 - [3] I totally feel your pain, the ever changing eve is just like real life - changing. So please I really REALLY dont want to say this, as so many has said before... Can I have your stuff. There, you gone and made me say it.
Dotard Minmatar Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.25 15:13:00 - [4] Edited by: Dotard on 25/02/2008 15:14:02 Balance is all he/she is advocating. Can't expect much more than "can I have your stuff?" or non-constructive replies from the monkey-gallery. The question still remains (in case you monkeys didn't realize it) WHERE IS THE BALANCE?!? And I agree with the OP. --------------- Nerf You! Buff Me!
Jakus Cemendur Caldari The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.02.25 15:13:00 - [5] MWD's do work in bubbles.
Anton March Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.02.25 15:18:00 - [6] Originally by: Dotries Nope, MWDs don't work in bubbles. Sure they do, though I wouldn't mind if they changed that Originally by: Dotries I'm open for any suggestions that are not blob (lag-fest) dependant. Get a scout.
Vanlade Amarr Blood Holocaust	Posted - 2008.02.25 15:21:00 - [7] Originally by: Dotries I have come to the conclusion the Devs that do play are gankers. How many devs playing EvE? How many non-devs playing EvE? Percentage of devs playing EvE? Devs ARE the gankers? Fail Originally by: Dotries I say this because they effectively removed any "flight" options. When faced with an impending attack a persons options are 'fight' or 'flight'. Flight is not an option. I've read "CCP wants you to commit to the fight." HA! commit to the gank is more accurate. Pilots avoid fights all the time, they "flight" all the time. Where have you been? Originally by: Dotries We had WCSs, they nerfed those crazy. So if we 'Adapt' and fit more stabs and deal with the 'borked ship' we end up with, they give us bubbles. Effectively making the WCS a useless mod. Bubbles were introduced long before the WCS nerf, which was made for the reason that _combat_ ships were using them to gank and run instead of gank and fight. Originally by: Dotries So we 'adapt' again and think nano to escape bubbles. Nope, MWDs don't work in bubbles. Cloak? Nope, with the existance of insta lock ships/setups that's not a possibility. Think outside the box? I'm open for any suggestions that are not blob (lag-fest) dependant. A Microwarpdrive can successfully be activated inside a bubble just as well and it can be used outside, it does not matter. Originally by: Dotries So I conclude that the Devs play this game and when someone(s) are escaping thier gangs, they themselves don't "think outside the box" they just nerf whatever means were/are used to escape them. Where is the "balance"? Where is the "everything has a counter"? Here are suggestions for you all to flame on: Fail Originally by: Dotries WCS: Remove the 1/2 targeting range penalty. "But everyone will fit a WCS!" you say? I say Bull-malarky. "EVERYONE" will not give up the slot when really, to be more effective you would have to give up two slots. You have 2-point scrams, yet no 2-point stabs. THAT is fair-enough. No, it was like this before and was a big problem. It seems that you don't know much at all about EvE. Originally by: Dotries Bubbles: Make MWDs work in these please. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think they do. At least that is what all the corpies were telling me when mine didn't activate in a bubble. Again, it is only the CHANCE to escape I'm looking for. They do work, but maybe you failed. Originally by: Dotries A CHANCE, a balance between fight or flight. A means to disengage if needed. I have snuck around these forums to hear all the 'whines' from the ganker/griefers "WAAA CCP! That hauler/cruiser/whatever won't just sit there and let me/us explode them!" I believe the devs play as ganker/griefers and that gives them the most jollies and they want the victims to just sit there also, so they introduce infinite point scramming ships, bubbles and nerf whatever means others develop to escape. If we get a reliable way to always escape combat after it started, then surely everyone will use it (especially the pvpers) and combat will become meaningless since we can just run anyways. Result? We will need larger gank to destroy the target before it can escape, making the gank factor much worse then it is now. Originally by: Dotries Give us back the option of fight OR flight. It is there - Scout - Scan - Savespot - and more
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.02.25 15:24:00 - [8] Originally by: Dotries Flight is not an option. I've read "CCP wants you to commit to the fight." HA! commit to the gank is more accurate. We had WCSs, they nerfed those crazy. WCS only nerf your targeting. If you're only interested in "Flight", then you arn't affected in any way. The nerf to WCS was to prevent cases where people would fit as much as 5 WCS on a Vagabond or a certain 7 WCS Sniping mega that used to camp in Hagilur once upon a time. Quote: So we 'adapt' again and think nano to escape bubbles. Nope, MWDs don't work in bubbles. Cloak? Nope, with the existance of insta lock ships/setups that's not a possibility. You can't lock someone before they cloak unless they take their time to do so. MWDs also work just fine in bubbles. Nanos were nerfed because of Battleships being as agile as an Interceptor, going 8km/s and generally being completely invulnerable. Hmph, I'm not sure what you're trying to say...
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.25 15:28:00 - [9] Originally by: Dotries MWDs don't work in bubbles. I stopped reading here. Know the game mechanics before whining about them.
sakana North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.02.25 15:32:00 - [10] Yes...fight OR flight. OR OR OR Stabs are fine as they are, they only nerf you if you try and make your ship combat capable as well. OR OR OR OR OR OR OR OR fight - no stabs OR flight - stabs.
Shurikane	Posted - 2008.02.25 15:37:00 - [11] OP forgot to mention you can really only commit to the fight if the fight happens in the first place. From all the roaming and fleet ops I do, I run into very, very, very few encounters. Seeking someone to fight against is a constant source of frustration for me. Most people run away and cloak as soon as they see reds come into local, or they run to POS, or dock at station, or just simply log off. Flight? You've got tons of flight available to you.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey	Posted - 2008.02.25 15:44:00 - [12] Edited by: Eventy One on 25/02/2008 15:45:13 Here we have a well reasoned, well argued idea, that you've presented in an objective manner. Yet you've defended the carebear's right to survive - how dare you! Don't you know only gankers have rights here? (.... hence the trolls, who really have nothing insightful to say about your point - or they would have come out with something more articulate). Cheers
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.25 15:50:00 - [13] Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 25/02/2008 15:51:08 Originally by: Eventy One Edited by: Eventy One on 25/02/2008 15:45:13 Here we have a well reasoned, well argued idea, that you've presented in an objective manner. Yet you've defended the carebear's right to survive - how dare you! Don't you know only gankers have rights here? (.... hence the trolls, who really have nothing insightful to say about your point - or they would have come out with something more articulate). Cheers So, a whine that shows that someone doesn't even know the game mechanics (That's right, MWDs DO work in bubbles), makes ridiculous accusations, and wants the ability to fit stabs AND be combat capable, is considered a reasonable argument these days? Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey	Posted - 2008.02.25 15:56:00 - [14] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 25/02/2008 15:51:08 So, a whine that shows that someone doesn't even know the game mechanics (That's right, MWDs DO work in bubbles), makes ridiculous accusations, and wants the ability to fit stabs AND be combat capable, is considered a reasonable argument these days? Not always. Sometime there is actually a grievance worthy of rectification. I think the point about the constant tinkering with the so-called 'flight' options have resulted in fierce arguments in these forums.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:07:00 - [15] But how to you sit there and refute points that are simply wrong? Response #1: Warp Core Stabs only affect your targetting, if you're running, that doesn't matter. So how does this prevent you from running? Response #2: Find yourself in a bubble, head towards the closest edge, activate MWD, and cloak. You will get one cycle of the MWD bonce you activate the cloak. Without the cloak, just burng out of the bubble. Response #3: If you're worried about bubbles, don't roam around 0.0 on your own. Have friends, use a scout. Use the map. Fly smart, not blind. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:08:00 - [16] Originally by: Dotries Nope, MWDs don't work in bubbles. I stopped reading right there. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:13:00 - [17] In retrospect, not even the worst Jenny Spitfire owner made threads this bad. speaking of which, I haven't seen any lately and am starting to miss them
Zero89	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:13:00 - [18] Once upon a time a nub flew into a bubble with no appropriate means to avoid it or escape... that nub gets pwned losses isk and whines about it on a forum. Once upon a time in the wilderness 15 wolfs chased a rabit... that rabit got pwned losses his life and complains to god that his flight mechanic wasn't good enough. Hmm... lets see here, someone has enough patients to setup a gate camp with a bunch of his buddies and a bubble and... he shouldn't get a kill? ya know what, you're right.... these pirates should never be able to setup gate camps, and kill someone stupid enough to fly right into them... If you can't pilot through low sec... stay out of it... pretty simple solution.
Tassadar Beta Amarr BIG Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:24:00 - [19] Edited by: Tassadar Beta on 25/02/2008 16:24:08 Originally by: Dotard Edited by: Dotard on 25/02/2008 15:14:02 Balance is all he/she is advocating. And I agree with the OP. Dotard...Dotries probably the same person try posting with your main if you have a point to make.
Nyabinghi Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:28:00 - [20] At this stage of the game WCS are not meant for combat ships. Sure if your not an armor tanker you could probably slip 1 or 2 in so you can rat in low sec but really it's not a viable an option as it use to be. This I believe was to prevent people from attacking others and then when realizing they weren't going to win, fleeing the fight. Bubbles are of course restricted to 0.0 space and if you live/travel in 0.0 you should consider it a normal way of 0.0 life. Of course CCP wants ships to go boom as much as possible as that keeps more people invested in the game (rebuilding what they lost) for longer periods = profits. I think where a lot of people have problems with ganking or being pirated is the fact that veteran players have the odds stacked well in their favor. Veteran players not only know how to fight, but also know every trick in the book AND have access to the most destructive ship set-ups ingame. Your best defense is avoidance or join a large corp or alliance. Unfortuantly this is the reason people 'hug' Empire space so much. ***
Dotries	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:34:00 - [21] Edited by: Dotries on 25/02/2008 16:36:38 I did say "correct me if I am wrong" about the MWD in bubbles. You did, thank you. WCS's were nerfed because the gankers used them to escape? Would it be THAT hard to have a "you fire first, you're commited not the attackee" game mechanic? Something like any offensive mod activation uses so much (insert some made-up sci-fi thingy here) that you cannot warp for xx seconds? So if the victim chooses to fight back he is now committed. You can't scan the opposite side of a gate. Scout? Ok, scout dies. The problem still remains, the scout has zero option for flight. Savespot? Read: Safespot?) Uhh... there is no means to escape to a safespot ya knumbskull. And more? Where? What are they? The Devs ARE gankers is what was meant, not they ARE THE gankers. Thus they skew the mechanics in favor of themselves forcing others to just sit there and die. FOR ME, NO CHALLENGE=NO FUN. I realize there exists folks who think it is. They are the ones who immediately are looking for cheat codes before any game they brought is even installed and play on "God" mode. Apparently those that play EvE and can control its development are those kind of players. If you give us a FAIR means of escape, not an UBER means, just a fair means, then it will be YOU who will be faced with challenges. WE have no challenge to escape as we have no MEANS. YOU will still have means (ie. fit more/bring more points. Catch and bump them off the next gate/station, etc etc). -------------- Stupid Monkey.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:37:00 - [22] Edited by: Malcanis on 25/02/2008 16:37:17 I love posts like this. They keep my profit margins up when I take goods in and out of 0.0 to sell. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Dotries	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:41:00 - [23] Originally by: An Anarchyyt (That's right, MWDs DO work in bubbles), makes ridiculous accusations, and wants the ability to fit stabs AND be combat capable, is considered a reasonable argument these days? I SAID correct me if Im wrong. Jeezzz... Who said anything about "wanting to be combat capable"? You still are nerfing your setup by giving up slots. Ok Ok, I'll give you that one OK? Keep the target range nerf. The problem still exists for bubbles and infinite point HICs. -------------- Stupid Monkey.
Roy Gordon Caldari Caldari Advanced Response Division G Thanks Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:43:00 - [24] There are other ways to increase your chances of æflightÆ. How about mods that either make it difficult for the enemy to lock you, or break the lock once they have? Oh, of course, they are called sensor dampers and ECM. That which does not kill us makes us stronger. The Universe is ruled by three basic principles- Matter, Energy and Enlightened Self-Interest!
Frug True Foundation R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.02.25 16:49:00 - [25] Quote: Bubbles: Make MWDs work in these please. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think they do. At least that is what all the corpies were telling me when mine didn't activate in a bubble. Again, it is only the CHANCE to escape I'm looking for. Learn the game before you start whining about it, k? - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Dotries	Posted - 2008.02.25 17:01:00 - [26] Full speed ahead, MWD and cloak? HA! Instant you "head for the closest edge" you are insta locked and multi-webbed. Again, no means of escape. It's join the blob or die. Period. End of arguement. I've been in blobs before. I'm one of many sitting with a bubble. Others enter and die quick deaths. OH BOY! No challenge=no fun. This got boring quicker than LvL 2 missions did. -------------- Stupid Monkey.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.02.25 17:03:00 - [27] IF you are facing a larger gatecamp, you're probably dead either way. BUT if you are facing a larger gatecamp, you'd have to be either pretty stupid or very, very unlucky NOT to notice its presence there. For a smaller gatecamp, there's plenty of ways to get out alive, and most of them involve a MWD, a cloak, and a bit of luck (so you don't lag while you do the align-gate-uncloak/turning MWD on/cloak sequence). Now, wether you pick to go back to the gate or away from it, that's another question. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.25 17:04:00 - [28] Originally by: Dotries Originally by: An Anarchyyt (That's right, MWDs DO work in bubbles), makes ridiculous accusations, and wants the ability to fit stabs AND be combat capable, is considered a reasonable argument these days? I SAID correct me if Im wrong. Jeezzz... The point is, before coming to the forums complaining about the game mechanics you should spend your time and energy learning the game mechanics and figuring out/learning from others tactics and tricks that can get you safely through low-sec and 0.0 . It's not difficult. And you're also wrong on the cloaking thing. I have never been locked before my cloak could turn on, and never seen it happen to anyone else. The only time people with cloaks die when trying to get through a gate camp is when they get decloaked after cloaking. It's actually very easy to get through gate camps. I even got through a gate camp in Curse once when I was in a Blackbird with a cloak heading towards the front on my own (the cloak was purely for travel, but it was the only part of the fitting that was travel fitting). My ship is sitting there doing like 50 m/s with 2 interdictors and some 4-5 interceptors buzzing all around me passing at like 3-4 km from my ship. They knew roughly where I was cause they dropped a second bubble on me to keep me from warping. And they never managed to decloak me...
Dotries	Posted - 2008.02.25 17:05:00 - [29] ECMs!!! DoH!! -------------- Stupid Monkey.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.25 17:05:00 - [30] This just keeps getting more and more incorrect. It is 100% possible to engage cloak before someone can lock you. As soon as you disengage gate cloak, you can engage cloak. But then again, the problem seems more like you'd just like to whine and cry with your alts because even you know this post is too stupid to use your main. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person

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