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Sar'aina
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Posted - 2008.02.26 16:49:00 -
[1]
It doesn't seem right that players can be targeted and have a cargo scanner activated on them in high security space but can't activate ECM to jam that scanning because it would be an act of aggression. Obviously the only reason to scan any ships cargo is to decide whether or not it's worth ganking so to do so should be agro.
But I'm sure CCP actually loves this exploit though because it only hurts veteran players who are the ones that will just turn around and spend the isk to replace what they've lost, maybe even by buying & selling a GTC or two to do it. If this were happening to newbs it would be considered "harassment" like it is leaving canisters in front of stations 
Enjoy.
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Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Stardust Heavy Industries
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.26 16:52:00 -
[2]
Can't see an exploit. Cargo scanners dont harm anybody.
You've just been ganked?
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Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.26 16:53:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Sar'aina
It doesn't seem right that players can be targeted and have a cargo scanner activated on them in high security space but can't activate ECM to jam that scanning because it would be an act of aggression. Obviously the only reason to scan any ships cargo is to decide whether or not it's worth ganking so to do so should be agro.
But I'm sure CCP actually loves this exploit though because it only hurts veteran players who are the ones that will just turn around and spend the isk to replace what they've lost, maybe even by buying & selling a GTC or two to do it. If this were happening to newbs it would be considered "harassment" like it is leaving canisters in front of stations
Enjoy.
and then what are you gonna do in your hauler, attack? battlebadger him to death? whine whine whine, go get suicide ganked please. You don't want aggression on this because it could be so turned into killin the hauler with no concord. its not an exploit in the first place.
Dont carry stuff in an 1100 hp floating beer can on autopilot, how about that one? no doesn't work for you?
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Sar'aina
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Posted - 2008.02.26 16:53:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Naomi Wildfire
Can't see an exploit. Cargo scanners dont harm anybody.
You've just been ganked?
Neither does ECM.
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Considered
Caldari
The Lost Prophets Euro
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.02.26 16:54:00 -
[5]
[Notify] Your Cargo Scanner 1 Perfectly Strikes Sar'aina's Whine Button Striking For a Forum Complaint
Been Ganked?
Your fault...
You agreed to PVP when you undocked.
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Considered
Caldari
The Lost Prophets Euro
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.02.26 16:55:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sar'aina
Originally by: Naomi Wildfire
Can't see an exploit. Cargo scanners dont harm anybody.
You've just been ganked?
Neither does ECM.
ECM does.
It Disrupts Locks...It affects other peoples ships systems..
Cargo Scanners Don't.
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Jorena
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Posted - 2008.02.26 16:57:00 -
[7]
Scanning just needs to be flagged as aggression--not a 'calling all Concord' aggression, but equivalent to can flipping. That way you can at least jam them or have corpmates come to your defense.
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Jeanine LeCroix
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Posted - 2008.02.26 16:57:00 -
[8]
Imagine you are fighting a rat battle cruiser and I jam your sensors. Imagine your whine after that.
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Considered
Caldari
The Lost Prophets Euro
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.02.26 16:58:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jeanine LeCroix
Imagine you are fighting a rat battle cruiser and I jam your sensors. Imagine your whine after that.
I was a bit hard on the OP in my last post, but you agree to PVP simply by playing EVE.
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WarlockX
Amarr
Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2008.02.26 16:58:00 -
[10]
Hmm well I agree ECM should not cause agro but there's one issue that you would need to deal with before you can make that change. What would stop ppl from going into missions and jamming ppl so that they cannot fight?
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"I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation." |
Skjorta
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Posted - 2008.02.26 17:00:00 -
[11]
They are just looking at your cargo hold, you make it sound like they are actually stealing from you.
not an exploit. thx.
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.02.26 17:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Considered
You agreed to PVP when you undocked.
Can't believe i'm quoting considered...
But yeah... that undock button is caution colors for a reason 
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Originally by: Praxis1452
you win eve
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Matalino
Gallente
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.02.26 17:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jorena
Scanning just needs to be flagged as aggression--not a 'calling all Concord' aggression, but equivalent to can flipping. That way you can at least jam them or have corpmates come to your defense.
This is almost a good idea, as it commits the scanning ship to combat, so you might think that they would need to be selective as to who they scan.
But the counter point is that even a rookie ship scan someones cargo hold. The loss of a 1,500 ISK module is insignificant. Even if you had CONCORD gank someone for cargo scanning, it would problably not stop them.
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Considered
Caldari
The Lost Prophets Euro
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.02.26 17:06:00 -
[14]
Originally by: techzer0
Originally by: Considered
You agreed to PVP when you undocked.
Can't believe i'm quoting considered...
But yeah... that undock button is caution colors for a reason
Oh?
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Papa Ina
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.26 17:09:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Considered
Originally by: techzer0
Originally by: Considered
You agreed to PVP when you undocked.
Can't believe i'm quoting considered...
But yeah... that undock button is caution colors for a reason
Oh?
Add a new warning. "By Clicking undock you accept that you will probably die. Accept/Cancel []Do not show this message again"
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.02.26 17:11:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Papa Ina
Add a new warning. "By Clicking undock you accept that you will probably die. Accept/Cancel []Do not show this message again"
But that would solve all the whines that feed the forum trolls. 
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Originally by: Praxis1452
you win eve
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Billy Sastard
Amarr
Life. Universe. Everything.
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Posted - 2008.02.26 17:19:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Papa Ina
Add a new warning. "By Clicking undock you accept that you will probably die. Accept/Cancel []Do not show this message again"
I support this message.
-=^=-
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Minerva Vulcan
Caldari
The Nexus Foundation
Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2008.02.26 17:20:00 -
[18]
It's fine.
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Myadra
Amarr
Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2008.02.26 17:36:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Myadra on 26/02/2008 17:37:15
cargo scanning and ship scanning, and fitting a passive targeter to do these passive actions is all that, passive.. gathering intel discreetly . how can scanning be aggression or something that should/could cause flagging?
since radar waves in real life are in use all over.. and its not illegal .. maybe what you should be asking for, is a passive target detector or a module to alert if you been cargo scanned / ship scanned. this post really makes no sense at all but i get the gist someone scanned your cargo and ganked you on another character... :P totally legal game mechanics, even 1.0 space is not 100% safe , just like walking down street in front of police station you could still be robbed.. if your carrying a gold bar in your hand (or t2 ship bpo in high sec ... ) just be more careful in future..
BoB - Grey Skies
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Agor Dirdonen
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Posted - 2008.02.26 17:50:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Agor Dirdonen on 26/02/2008 17:50:31
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Jorena
Scanning just needs to be flagged as aggression--not a 'calling all Concord' aggression, but equivalent to can flipping. That way you can at least jam them or have corpmates come to your defense.
This is almost a good idea, as it commits the scanning ship to combat, so you might think that they would need to be selective as to who they scan.
But the counter point is that even a rookie ship scan someones cargo hold. The loss of a 1,500 ISK module is insignificant. Even if you had CONCORD gank someone for cargo scanning, it would problably not stop them.
Yep, let's turn the suicide gank into a regular gank without the attacker loosing it's ship!!!! As soon as the hauler uses the ECM and gets a failed cycle... guess what the scanner will do... jam the hauler himself and start pounding... Concord won't interfere!
At the same time, he's scrambling the hauler much, much longer cause Concord won't break his lock. Meantime, his corp mates can still keep doing a suicide gank on the hauler who has absolutely no way to escape this time.
I can't believe people don't learn from how can flagging works more AGAINST the miner then the other way around. Giving a crim flag to the scanner will do exactly the same.
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MenanceWhite
Amarr
Fruit Fellatio
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Posted - 2008.02.26 17:55:00 -
[21]
Oh, so it's a exploit.
I've been 2 volleyed by stealth bombers! I hate stealthbombers! Flying stealth bombers is a exploit.
---
Originally by: Torfi
There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses
Originally by: Oveur
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.02.26 18:41:00 -
[22]
Cargo scanners shouldn't be able to scan courier packages, that effectively killed that market dead.
Work on how to make courier missions exponentially more costly to create, undisclosed information of course to get around any kind of courier spamming but being able to scan packages no-one in their right mind would ever dream of sending anything remotely valuable through this 'service' seeing as it will get scanned and stolen if X is greater than Y.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Lillian Meilleur
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Posted - 2008.02.26 18:42:00 -
[23]
this thread has great lol
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SteeleResolve
Domination.
UnNatural Selection.
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Posted - 2008.02.26 18:47:00 -
[24]
Its a passive module. Its fine.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.02.26 18:49:00 -
[25]
Gankers to the left of me, alts to the right of me, stuck in the middle with you.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.02.26 19:09:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jorena
Scanning just needs to be flagged as aggression--not a 'calling all Concord' aggression, but equivalent to can flipping. That way you can at least jam them or have corpmates come to your defense.
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
RigelKentaurus
Flying Tartiflette
Caldari Deep Space Industral
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Posted - 2008.02.26 19:43:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jorena
Scanning just needs to be flagged as aggression--not a 'calling all Concord' aggression, but equivalent to can flipping. That way you can at least jam them or have corpmates come to your defense.
Instead of flagging, I'd like to see Cargo Scanners become chance based, like ECMs, and take the sensor strength of the target into account.
This way you could "tank" your ship against that.
_________
Someday, EVE may look like this. |
Jorena
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Posted - 2008.02.26 19:47:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Agor Dirdonen
Edited by: Agor Dirdonen on 26/02/2008 17:50:31
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Jorena
Scanning just needs to be flagged as aggression--not a 'calling all Concord' aggression, but equivalent to can flipping. That way you can at least jam them or have corpmates come to your defense.
This is almost a good idea, as it commits the scanning ship to combat, so you might think that they would need to be selective as to who they scan.
But the counter point is that even a rookie ship scan someones cargo hold. The loss of a 1,500 ISK module is insignificant. Even if you had CONCORD gank someone for cargo scanning, it would problably not stop them.
Yep, let's turn the suicide gank into a regular gank without the attacker loosing it's ship!!!! As soon as the hauler uses the ECM and gets a failed cycle... guess what the scanner will do... jam the hauler himself and start pounding... Concord won't interfere!
At the same time, he's scrambling the hauler much, much longer cause Concord won't break his lock. Meantime, his corp mates can still keep doing a suicide gank on the hauler who has absolutely no way to escape this time.
I can't believe people don't learn from how can flagging works more AGAINST the miner then the other way around. Giving a crim flag to the scanner will do exactly the same.
You have a good point, but it is still an improvement. The choice to engage without Concord interference is in the hands of the victim at this point. If he does not return aggression and the scanner opens fire, the scanner gets Concorded. Only if the victim chooses to return fire / ewar does the scanner have the opportunity for a potentially free kill.
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Ieu Duin
Amarr
Star Sabre Industries
Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2008.02.26 19:47:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Ieu Duin on 26/02/2008 19:48:07
Originally by: Jorena
Scanning just needs to be flagged as aggression--not a 'calling all Concord' aggression, but equivalent to can flipping. That way you can at least jam them or have corpmates come to your defense.
This is 100% correct. It does not need to be a flag that will alert CONCORD. But at least let pilots defend themselves against the scanners.
If there were people on the open roads scanning trucks that drove by, at no harm to anyone, and someone developed a jammer that prevented your truck from being scanned, the police would not arrest you for keeping your own privacy and protecting yourself from someone scanning you.
Let them scan away, but give a pilot a means to resist unwanted scanning.
Quote:
There are no fair fights in EVE. If you're in a fair fight, you planned wrong.
-- Agent Li, Caldari, Galactic Defence Consortium, BLACKHAWK FEDERATION
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Matalino
Gallente
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.02.26 19:58:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Matalino on 26/02/2008 19:58:59
Originally by: Ieu Duin
But at least let pilots defend themselves against the scanners.
The point is that they will NOT be able to defend themselves.
Compare:
Currently - hauler gets scanned, then ganked, attackers lose their ships.
With flagging - hauler gets scanned, then ganked, attackers do not lose their ships if the hauler doesn't want them CONCORDed.
We can save CCP the touble of writing the code to add flagging: if a hauler wants to get ganked without destroying the gankers all he needs to do is drop a jet can with his cargo then self-destruct. 
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