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Fourty Niner	Posted - 2008.02.27 10:43:00 - [1] Ok Short true story. Im happily chipping away making money to buy myself a navy raven, when my CEO private chats me. Hes been scanning and has found a ded zone in low sec, its got a few BSs and crusers in the first pocket, do I want in on it. Well, knowing my CEO, he never offers an in on something like this unless he knows he really really needs your help. So I agree to meet him for the trip accross the low secs, and change to my "insane passive dake", and arrive at the last high sec gate, to find him also in an "insane passive drake". (They were both less insane at this point, cos we both had stabs, microwarps AND cloaks on;- lets face it, why try to get caught by camps) The ded system was the last one in this pocket of lows, so we jump across to the first mid sec, and change fittings. (As an aside, it turns out we both have a "hidden" stash of ships in this system, that the other was unaware of, including both having ammo stashes in secure containers hiden in the belts) So, we jump back to the low sec, and warp to the first gate, jumpin, and Im telling you it was a "Hard" room to do, (for those of you who do PvE it was harder than the entire second room in deltole by a lot), so after several warp in and outs, clever use of "running" away and firing our entire supply of missiles (hence the finding out about the hidden stashes), we beat the first room. Now this first room has taken us an hour and a half to do, so there is some debate about stopping to salvage, but after just grabbing the loot from the "main" wrecks we decided to just do the second room. So again, warp in and outs, running aways, and gereraly all the tricks that good PvEers learn we are at the turning point were we are no longer hitting the ships in the order they need to be hit for us to live, we can now pick which to kill... when... Three flashy reds warp into the room, "Warp, Warp, Warp" I recieve in fleet, and I do. We both leave system, refit for lowsec travel and go home. I have no problem with this, its what we always do. And when Ive been fleet command Ive made the same call myself. We made in the three hours we were there, maybe 1o million in bounty each, probaly the same again in loot from wrecks we just happened to be next to, and maybe 20 million in salvage, so 13million an hour, which isnt bad. HOWEVER, did we really need to warp away at all? The three "flashy reds" were one Cruser sized and two BC sized ships. The crusier was definatly min, and the two BCs gallente, yet even though we had (what must be concidered) two very very good tanks, and 14 t2 launchers between us, and were 60-70km from them, we warped out without a moments hesitation. Yet I would make the same call again in a harts beat. Why is this? And to skip the obvious right away, (that im just scared to loose ships) in all the empire wars we have had, I throw my ships about with reckless abbandon, and am quite willing to engage groups of BSs with a BC when so ordered, and infact normaly have to be ordered NOT to be so reckless P.S. As a seperate, but connected story, I was ratting in a low sec in a stab fitted ferox, and I ran away from a rifter!!!!!!
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Snake Assault	Posted - 2008.02.27 10:50:00 - [2] I really think it's the flashing that scares many people. They see something flashing and warp without a second thought. I was flashing in a Rifter when some support of my latest target dropped in on me (caught him in a belt), a bit in a rush I just warped towards another belt that I happened to be aligned to before warping to one of my safespots. When I arrived at the belt, two BCs (80km away) immediately bailed. I can't imagine them being scared of a lone frigate. Either it was the flashing that caused them to react too fast to process what's happening, or maybe they were scared that I've got backup lined up.
Naridos Caldari IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.02.27 10:51:00 - [3] First of all, the pirates that jumped on you guys didnt do a good job of making sure that they would catch you. Second, I bet they had more people behind them for support and had you engaged, you may have regretted it. As for the running away, flashy reds seem to do that to people and they seem to crap themselves and freak out! Quote: You Know you play too much Eve when you get into a car crash and you run away as fast as you can so that you don't get podded.
Suitonia Gallente interimo	Posted - 2008.02.27 10:57:00 - [4] Originally by: Fourty Niner ... (for those of you who do PvE it was harder than the entire second room in deltole by a lot) ... I remember a gangmate nearly losing a lachesis in that room when ganking a war target drake that was in the plex there. --- I've always wondered about those Vagabond pilots...
Mickey Simon Asran Defence Force Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.02.27 10:57:00 - [5] As the first two posters have mentioned, I think there's a relationship that many pilots associate with flashing red followed by death, so it makes sense to have a reaction based on that. It's not that you're scared to lose ships, it's more that it's an instinctive reaction that everytime you have lost a ship, it's been to a flashing red. Or maybe I'm talking out of my ass, either way - that's the rationale I use when I warp out of a fight. If I want to fight someone, it'll be on my terms - not theirs. You might have been able to take the pirates on, but then again they might have had friends ready to warp in right on top of you. Perhaps next time try and take them on? Then see what happens and learn from their reaction :D _____ Asran Defence Force is recruiting!
Redbad Minmatar Tempered Steel Legion	Posted - 2008.02.27 11:00:00 - [6] Was this in Auren by any chance? Because then it was a Vaga, a Mael and an Astarte that jumped on you. RB
Fourty Niner	Posted - 2008.02.27 11:02:00 - [7] Edited by: Fourty Niner on 27/02/2008 11:02:48 Yep it was in auren ;) You think we might have won?
PraetorNZ Red. Red Republic	Posted - 2008.02.27 11:15:00 - [8] not a chance. you might have been able to get the astarte before it got to you tho but the mael would have ripped you both up
Dai Nau Mothership Connection Inc. GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.27 11:35:00 - [9] why do you even play this game
Redbad Minmatar Tempered Steel Legion	Posted - 2008.02.27 11:38:00 - [10] Originally by: Fourty Niner Edited by: Fourty Niner on 27/02/2008 11:02:48 Yep it was in auren ;) You think we might have won? Ofcourse you would have won! We are shltty piewats. You forgot to mention you two logged out when you jumped to your saves and later on logged back on and went via Gusgate into Eifer towards high sec Emolgranlan and we lousy pirates still could catch ya. pff, we are getting slow with age here. RB
Kane Rizzel NovaKane Incorporated Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2008.02.27 11:39:00 - [11] My opinion is that when people see the flashy red they start to feel they've done something wrong, it's like the flashy red are police lights and we're coming to get you. It's like an episode of Cops, the criminals always run and well they should, attacking harmless NPCs minding there own business in a corner of space, for shame. It's always the same story though when they relate there ordeal, they were minding there own business when two guys came out of nowhere and started attacking them, someone called the cops/pirates and they could hear the sirens coming. Bad Boys, Bad Boys, whatcha gona do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you? Originally by: High Sierra note to self: dont ever say anything to anyone on the internet about anything ever again.
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.02.27 11:41:00 - [12] Edited by: Inertial on 27/02/2008 11:41:12 If someone is flashy, it is often for a reason. Pirates generally don't engage unless they think they can take their target (unless they think it will be a fun fight). On Monday morning me and a corpie (me Incursus without fittings, him Crow) engaged a drake, and after 20 minutes (after my corpie brought his SB Alt in, and I gotten my stuff from him) we finally got him. This was a fight we thought we could win, and that is why we engaged, if we had not thought we could engage we wouldn't have tried (then again, we also went after a Brutix, Thorax, Cormorant, Procurer and Iteron in a Incursus and Ishkur ).
Fourty Niner	Posted - 2008.02.27 11:43:00 - [13] Edited by: Fourty Niner on 27/02/2008 11:43:45 Edited by: Fourty Niner on 27/02/2008 11:43:28 You forgot to mention you two logged out when you jumped to your saves and later on logged back on and went via Gusgate into Eifer towards high sec Emolgranlan and we lousy pirates still could catch ya. Nope. What I did miss from the story, was that we went back and finsihed the room after you guys had left local, But as that wasnt a pertinant part of the story I didnt memntion it, and implied we went directly home. Your probaly thought we logged out, cos it took so long for us to travel back. (I DID get disconed whilst at the gate in Auren, but was back within one min)
Redbad Minmatar Tempered Steel Legion	Posted - 2008.02.27 11:46:00 - [14] Originally by: Kane Rizzel My opinion is that when people see the flashy red they start to feel they've done something wrong, it's like the flashy red are police lights and we're coming to get you. It's like an episode of Cops, the criminals always run and well they should, attacking harmless NPCs minding there own business in a corner of space, for shame. It's always the same story though when they relate there ordeal, they were minding there own business when two guys came out of nowhere and started attacking them, someone called the cops/pirates and they could hear the sirens coming. Bad Boys, Bad Boys, whatcha gona do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you? Thanks Kane, now I will have that song in my head all day. Hope to catch you on voice comms again soon, going to sing it to you then for the mere pleasure of torture.
Xykanth Roldeir	Posted - 2008.02.27 12:13:00 - [15] I don't know the entire situation that you were in, but if you by chance still had your cloaks fitted you could have cloaked and let the rats aggroe them and then engaged. That would have made for a much more fair fight. You they being PVP fit, you PVE fit. They also had and extra cruiser. I don't know if they were T2 ships or not, but a fight like that would sure have been interesting.
Doonoo Boonoo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.27 13:23:00 - [16] Forty Niner is Atham Koris Alt btw.
Fourty Niner	Posted - 2008.02.27 13:30:00 - [17] Edited by: Fourty Niner on 27/02/2008 13:33:32 Originally by: Xykanth Roldeir I don't know the entire situation that you were in, but if you by chance still had your cloaks fitted you could have cloaked and let the rats aggroe them and then engaged. That would have made for a much more fair fight. You they being PVP fit, you PVE fit. They also had and extra cruiser. I don't know if they were T2 ships or not, but a fight like that would sure have been interesting. Humm, that would require that No one in the entire room had locked us. Originally by: Doonoo Boonoo Forty Niner is Atham Koris Alt btw. What? If you are refering to the post where I cut and pasted every single time he said it would only cost 500isk, then pasted where he turned round and said Well, not really its 5 million, could I suddgest that you re-read that post. Also, Im older than Atham, (Or the chr he says is his Main), so if anything HE would be my alt
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.27 13:56:00 - [18] You probably made the right call. Most oftenly someone who decides to attack does it because he believes himself to be at an advantage. Some take on equal, or less than equal odds for a challenge, but in general; if you are attacked, it is because your opponent knows your numbers and capabilities and have made a value-judgment. However, sometimes combat is selected by neither party (some people engage because they feel they have no other option (they think they are going to be attacked themselves, so instead of trying to run they engage), this is when it can get surprising. I've been in circumstances where someone at extremely unfavorable odds have aggressed me (to the point where I believed it was a trap) and died horribly barely scratching my shields. Needless to say, an Astarte, Maelstrom and a Vagabond would've ripped you to shreds any day of the week. Pretty much any single ship out of those three would likely make your lives miserable (possibly with the exception of the vaga, which (if you had passive tanks) would've had to leave). Help promote the "boost low-sec"-project.
Fourty Niner	Posted - 2008.02.27 14:48:00 - [19] Quote: You probably made the right call. Most oftenly someone who decides to attack does it because he believes himself to be at an advantage. Some take on equal, or less than equal odds for a challenge, but in general; if you are attacked, it is because your opponent knows your numbers and capabilities and have made a value-judgment Lol, yep, for sure now that I know what and who it was that jumped in, but as the disparaty between what I thought had jumped in, and what really jumped in shows, it might have been three ruptures, and we would still have run away ;) I honestly simply didnt hang around to find out, it just makes me wonder if there arnt a lot of wanabe rubbish pirates about, who rely on the fact that most ppl run away. (Not these three guys, who definatly knew what they were doing, and as one of them pointed out, at least he had a good chance of catching us on the jumps back) As an aside, why are there all those Cal uni freighters always jumping through Auren-GUst-eyfer, seems deedlessly risky to me, when there is a safe way round?
emf Amarr Knights Of the Black Sun Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2008.02.27 15:39:00 - [20] You definitely made the right choice in running, it would be extremely foolish to fight in a PVE fit. I would however refit at the nearest station I could, access the situation and go right back in to kill them. Join Knights of the Black Sun today. Contact emf in game.
Berand Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.02.27 16:51:00 - [21] You made the right choice running for sure, assuming you weren't interested in dying. Never fight when your opponent picks the battle.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.02.27 17:33:00 - [22] Originally by: Berand You made the right choice running for sure, assuming you weren't interested in dying. Never fight when your opponent picks the battle. Exactly. That guy in the frigate scrambling you might make you laugh at first, but he probably knows something you don't ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Windjammer	Posted - 2008.02.27 18:26:00 - [23] The answer here is obvious. When you're out doing PvE you're ill fitted for PvP. Anybody coming in flashy red is going to be fitted for PvP and there's a very good chance they've got other ships to back them. i.e. they've chosen the fight and have more than likely ensured their success in the engagement. Running is the reasonable option. In war, you're fitted for PvP and any flashy red to you is what you came for. You're ready for them just as much as they are ready for you. Fighting is the reasonable option. The reaction in both cases is a response that has been reasoned out ahead of time. Therefore your reaction is predetermined, automatic and less prone to error than heat of the moment decisions. The OP's response was prudent and not the least cowardly. Regards, Windjammer
Ebone Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.02.28 01:55:00 - [24] phew phew
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.02.28 20:00:00 - [25] The real question here, and forgive me if this hasn't been answered, is if the pirates stayed and finished up your exploration site, and if so, did they get any uber loot from it? :D
Fourty Niner	Posted - 2008.02.29 12:33:00 - [26] Originally by: Ulstan The real question here, and forgive me if this hasn't been answered, is if the pirates stayed and finished up your exploration site, and if so, did they get any uber loot from it? :D Nope they didnt, I implied in the OP that we flew straight home, but I pointed out later, that we just waited a few mins then went back in. Too be honest, at the point that we were interupted, I dont think any of thier ships could have handled full room aggro, and as we had dragged everything to one side, this would probably have happened. I dont mean that, in anyway to, to belittle their ability, just has as been pointed out, we were PvE fitted, they PvP. Perchance one of them could say for sure if they just left the ded cos it would have been too much agroo on a single ship, or because they just find PvE boring.
Durzel Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.29 13:06:00 - [27] The flashing is illogical really and bad game design imo :) Something flashing like that implies an imminent threat, when in reality depending on the circumstances that person might be more afraid of you (i.e. they might just be passing through high sec with a negative sec status). Imo players in the overview should be flashing red when they are locked onto you, as opposed to the current flashing-yellow box (which if you compare the two appears to be less significant).
K Raz Danish Trade and Mining Inc. Frontier Trading and Co Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.01 00:43:00 - [28] Originally by: Durzel The flashing is illogical really and bad game design imo :) Something flashing like that implies an imminent threat, when in reality depending on the circumstances that person might be more afraid of you (i.e. they might just be passing through high sec with a negative sec status). You can always change the colors and blinking in the overview settings ;) - Maybe we should all try making pirates flashy green instead? as in "ok to shoot at", instead of "DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER!"
Sin Fae Income Redistribution Service The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.03.01 05:09:00 - [29] Most folks warp out when I flip a can in a shuttle and I become flashy red to them. Knowing when to fight and when to take off comes with time and experience. Well, that is if you are given the choice by your ambushers heh.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.03.01 05:25:00 - [30] Originally by: Lil'Red Ridin'Hood I really think it's the flashing that scares many people. They see something flashing and warp without a second thought. ZOMG blinky waaaaaaaaaaaaarp! I had a dude run from my Ibis the other day.
z0de Gallente The Bastards	Posted - 2008.03.01 08:43:00 - [31] Edited by: z0de on 01/03/2008 08:50:35 Edited by: z0de on 01/03/2008 08:44:39 I think the "zomg blinky, RUN!" is a fair response as blinky shows they're looking for a fight (most of the time) and very few people will run to a fight with no hope of winning. Update my portrait!
Illwill Bill Boennerup Banden When Fat Kids Attack	Posted - 2008.03.04 11:14:00 - [32] -10 adds another 300 DPS. ;) ____________________ Honk if you think that I'm a n00b
Serathii Simtech Productions Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.04 12:41:00 - [33] you did the right thing to warp, they came looking for pvp, and were fitted for pvp, you came for pve and would probably have been equiped for pve. ive had ravens run from my rifter and im not even flashy red, its probably just the idea that theres an other person near you, that might bring friends in your case, it could just as well have been a bunch of t2 ships from profesional pirates, and staying to engage that on thier terms is pretty much suicide
Sue too	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:29:00 - [34] the flashy red always provokes a responce be it run away or in my case out in 0.0 where everyone is a potential ganker and i can have a frendly warp past/beside me (no nuts or reds in system) and reflex makes me jump to target them. if it wasnt for teh fact i rarely show friends in my overview im sure i would have caused a few diplomatic incidents by now (accidents ofcorse )
flashfresh BLACK-FLAG	Posted - 2008.03.17 17:52:00 - [35] Tough call but if you had PvE fitted ships - then it was the right decision. All your uber-passive tank would have given you and your gang mate was more time before you died; unless you had gang mates close by. If you had a PvP fitted ships....then you wouldn't be in a two-drake gang for one thing but something like a Cerberus or Vulture without stabs and with some tackling gear (you don't want them pirates to run away either you know!). Did the red flashiness scare you? Probably. The fact that you didn't even get a chance to assess the ships before you warped out meant that fleeing was instinctive. No shame in that. None whatsoever. You saved your ship but you should have kept an eye on local and on the scanner to inform you of a scan probe. Still, you could have went 'aw screw it, more targets!!!' and went after RedBad and Co then I doubt you would have won. Mainly because they're pirates and they're good at what they do: which is to kill people. If the three ships couldn't kill you (very unlikely if it was Redbad, RealZonk and one other...Kane?) - then back-up would have been called in. They're pirates after all, not knights. Screw this fair play crap. They're after you, your mods and a ransom. You did good - but please come back. Flashfresh ôMe, I'm dishonest, and you can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest. Honestly, it's the honest ones you have to watch out for.'ö http://i-pirate.blogspot.com
Tony Allizzar POINT CLICK KILL	Posted - 2008.03.18 00:46:00 - [36] to many people see PvP combat in this game as a dirty word. at the heart of it everything you do in EVE is a form of PvP, even selling stuff on the market. People see a player that is gonna shoot them, and they run away. Why not just give it a go. Weather you win or loose, its gonna be exciting. I garentee you WILL enjoy it. Sure no one likes to be ganked, but that could have been a straight up fight. Play the game. Dont shy from the game mechanics you are not used to. blow them up
Trading Bunnz Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.18 03:25:00 - [37] Of course, the "correct" action is to dock up as soon as you see the scan probe, refit for pvp, and wait for them to come to you. ^^ FRPB Shares in Default
Draeca Combat-Evolved	Posted - 2008.03.18 07:14:00 - [38] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Lil'Red Ridin'Hood I really think it's the flashing that scares many people. They see something flashing and warp without a second thought. ZOMG blinky waaaaaaaaaaaaarp! I had a dude run from my Ibis the other day. And I had a cyclone running from my rifter once. The funny thing was that he had a faction spawn on that belt, and I got it.
Bellum Eternus Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.03.18 07:18:00 - [39] Stabs and cloaks.... shakes head... Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Greenbolt Un4seen Development	Posted - 2008.03.18 20:30:00 - [40] first...reading the OP...they had travel gear on then refit closer to the complex..maybe i read that wrong. Standard procedure. Second..if a red flashy jumps in on you while your PVE fit...you run if you can ..fight and probably die if you cant. Going back to that example of the solo red flashy rifter..why run? Hes a tackler. he probably has backup on the other side of that gate or in system aligned just waiting to warp once he gets tackle. In this day of blobage..you have to assume any lone ship that flys towards you is either bait or lead tackle for a whole pile of hurting coming behind. Course that goes the same in reverse..a lone battlecruiser sitting in a belt fighting npcs that doesnt try to run when your evil pirate warps in on top of him...probably has a web/scram fit and a nice group of mates one jump over just waiting for some fun. If your not out looking for a fight...your best avoiding em ...because you can assume the flashy who took the time to scan you out..knows what your in..and has made sure he has the firepower to defeat it. Assuming incompentence in your enemy only leads to more insurance payouts. --------------------------------------------------- Scordite -Who was it that said that flying minmatar is kinda like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an uzi?
deathforge The Accursed	Posted - 2008.03.19 02:14:00 - [41] i shall come out of retirement, to smite all those that stand before me with my reaper. curious to see just how many people run And by the way, I rule you. ---------------------- Jerk + 122k skillpoints + Determination = Rifter of DoomÖ
Novemb3r Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.19 03:38:00 - [42] Originally by: Lil'Red Ridin'Hood I really think it's the flashing that scares many people. They see something flashing and warp without a second thought. I've made people bail by warping in in a shuttle when flashy so yeah, I guess the blinking just scares them. -
Galan Amarias Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.03.19 05:59:00 - [43] The advice to run was all dead on. You made the right call I just wanted to make two points that seem to have been missed. 1. You were already tanking a spawn that was eating up most of your ability to tank, hence your "ubertank" is a moot point. 2. They have warp scramblers, you do not. Hence any fight can only be you losing. They will warp off and repair if you managed to severely damage one. Because of that you can not possibly win, to run away was the only viable option. Just remember to o/ in local and thank them for the adrenaline. -Galan The answer to empire ganking

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