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What is the point of Procurers anyway?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Jim Nakamura Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.27 22:34:00 - [1] Are they just there to trick people who think "bigger ship = better"? Because unless I'm missing something, they appear to be an absolute waste of hangar space that can be outmined by a Bantam and straight-up embarrassed by an Osprey...
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.02.27 22:38:00 - [2] It doesn't require a racial-specific ship flying skill. No reasonable person might be at that stage without those skills, but I imagine that's the big drawcard. If you went pure industry, disregarding even racial piloting, there's your reason. Plus you need them to invent skiffs. Improve Market Competition!
Tkar vonBiggendorf Gallente Snake Eyes Inc Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.02.28 00:29:00 - [3] They exist to become Skiffs. :)
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2008.02.28 02:05:00 - [4] Originally by: Tkar vonBiggendorf They exist to become Skiffs. :) Sad but true. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.02.28 03:30:00 - [5] I would actually be curious to hear how many Procurers and Coveter are actually in use. I do not think I've ever seen a Procurer in the wild, and I haven't seen a Coveter since Invention and the Hulk price drop.
Helen Hunts Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc Red Dragon Industries	Posted - 2008.02.28 04:02:00 - [6] Way back in the day, Procurers did have a profitable existance in EVE. (Yes, actually mining with the it and everything) Unfortunatly, some 'rebalancing' took place a time or two, and the smaller ships (Frigates and Cruisers) got a bit of a boost. The Procurer suddenly found itself being outmined by much smaller, non-specialized craft. Currently, the Procurer is only kept and used by Collectors, builders of Skiffs, and those who don't know any better. _______________________________ Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money. Any Questions?
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2008.02.28 04:21:00 - [7] Originally by: Helen Hunts Way back in the day, Procurers did have a profitable existance in EVE. (Yes, actually mining with the it and everything) Unfortunatly, some 'rebalancing' took place a time or two, and the smaller ships (Frigates and Cruisers) got a bit of a boost. The Procurer suddenly found itself being outmined by much smaller, non-specialized craft. Currently, the Procurer is only kept and used by Collectors, builders of Skiffs, and those who don't know any better. :o This is rubbish. On release of mining barges, any miner worth their salt already had a mining Osprey/Scythe or Apoc etc. THEN they trained for mining barges and so pretty much went right to covetors. They actually got slightly 'more' useful for players that went right into mining barges without going to cruisers first, as they could fly a Procurer but not an Osprey/Scythe. I imagine those are the only players that still use them, the ones that go right to barges without touching cruisers. Even then it's not very long before they can make it to a retriever, so who knows :o Things have got easier for the new player.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.02.28 05:43:00 - [8] Easy fix would be a massive nerf for mining lasers fitted to non-mining specialised ships (so ships other than osprey, bantam and racial equivalents), and then do a rebalance of those ships to make the procurer "better". Improve Market Competition!
Jonny MoJo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.28 07:42:00 - [9] Edited by: Jonny MoJo on 28/02/2008 07:44:41 Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Easy fix would be a massive nerf for mining lasers fitted to non-mining specialised ships (so ships other than osprey, bantam and racial equivalents), and then do a rebalance of those ships to make the procurer "better". Issue is concept. Anthing with more than 1 strip miner is better than procurer. The Procurere is the "Amarr" of mining barges. Pretty useless but to the non-barge pilot, looks good on paper. Give procurer more slots? No point. The only reason why people use retrevers is because not everone has training barge 5 or wants barge 5. (i.e the casual miner, or the pvper who mines ice for corp ops etc) Solutions? It needs 2 lasers, but that would make it compete with retrever. I dont know what needs to be done with this hunk of junk, so lets give them Amarr treatment by giving them 10% less cap use per barge level for mining lasers. Refresh for next Real life CCP Sig(21 Total)
Jameroz Art of War	Posted - 2008.02.28 08:00:00 - [10] You can get Retriever so fast anyway... you might use Procurer for day or two at max. I think modifying the mining bonus to 100% mining bonus would work nicely. Basically what you get is 2 strip miners with half the capacitor usage and no bonus. Maybe make sure it can't with mining upgrade either.
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2008.02.28 11:27:00 - [11] You know there are plenty of other ships out there that are less used ;) There's no real need to make this one better, especially when you can get a better model in a few days.
Mona X Caldari Polish Task Forces C0VEN	Posted - 2008.02.28 11:32:00 - [12] Add every barge 1 more laser. Problem solved. :)
Thenoran Caldari Frontier Economics	Posted - 2008.02.28 11:33:00 - [13] Give the Procurer the same bonus plus a little (say 25%) on top of the Mining Barge bonus over the current cruiser bonuses (20%) so that it can beat them at mining. Increase the gap between a Retriever and a Procurer and decrease the gap between a Retriever > Coveter < Exhumer by either removing Astrogeology V or Mining Barge V requirement from the Covetor. ------------------------ Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh
quickshot89 Caldari Imperators	Posted - 2008.02.28 11:51:00 - [14] what about mining ice? only barges can have the ice modules, and those people who dont have the time to get the skills up can use the procurer to mine ice until a better ship. My corp has procurer's for that reason, we mine roids in cruisers or better barges, and mine ice in barges so yes, there is a reason in them Imperators, we seek glory and honour
Thenoran Caldari Frontier Economics	Posted - 2008.02.28 11:56:00 - [15] Originally by: quickshot89 what about mining ice? only barges can have the ice modules, and those people who dont have the time to get the skills up can use the procurer to mine ice until a better ship. My corp has procurer's for that reason, we mine roids in cruisers or better barges, and mine ice in barges so yes, there is a reason in them Problem with that is, if you can get a Procurer, why not wait a day and get a Retriever to mine twice the amount of Ice? ------------------------ Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh
quickshot89 Caldari Imperators	Posted - 2008.02.28 17:00:00 - [16] because the ship only costs 1.6 mil and you can make that in 40 mins of ice mining so might as well start asap while training FYI i dont use a procurer anymore Imperators, we seek glory and honour
Sin Fae Income Redistribution Service The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.03.01 05:02:00 - [17] Heh - they should make a mega bonus to procurers for mining veldspar or something.
Xifrian	Posted - 2008.03.04 08:14:00 - [18] I use it for more room. Plus I don't have to train other races. I'm lazy really. I don't really care. I read when I mine so I'd rather have more space I guess. Can an Osprey carry as much?
Chewie Soloh SkillzKillz United For 0rder	Posted - 2008.03.04 12:37:00 - [19] Can a Osprey mine ice? (Rhetorical) Plus they have the koolest model, so kool that like the minmatar shuttle the model should have been used for something else.
The Geoman Gallente Anarchos Industrial Cooperative	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:52:00 - [20] Originally by: Xifrian I use it for more room. Plus I don't have to train other races. I'm lazy really. I don't really care. I read when I mine so I'd rather have more space I guess. Can an Osprey carry as much? Yeah but how long are you planning to use it? If you're not planning to move up to a retriever, you're missing a very easy opportunity to double your mining output.
Zifrian Gallente Gallente Federal Bank	Posted - 2008.03.04 17:28:00 - [21] Edited by: Zifrian on 04/03/2008 17:31:58 Yeah, I'm planning on going to a Hulk eventually. I just don't see how you could get an osprey to hold the same amount of stuff. I run with 2 cargo extenders now on my barge and it's still not enough room for me.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:52:00 - [22] It is a tough issue to approach. I agree the procurer is a fairly useless ship besides someone who is very strapped for isk or lacks the right skill level might enjoy it as a stop gap ship to fly. There are many ships out there which are quickly overlooked for their better siblings such as the wreathe, iteron Mk1 or Mk2 for example. The issue is not unique to the procurer but its function and role are somewhat redundant and even the tier 3 battleships like the rokh can challenge the exhumers for mining rates. Historically this issue arises from the freedoms of eve and being able to equip what you want to any ship regardless of its 'intended role' due to the very basic beginnings of eve. There is certainly a good case for disallowing 'combat ships' from fitting mining lasers in the fifth age of eve but equal argument for why it should be kept (the freedom of choice). Personally my own approach to the issue is specialisation. If you followed my blog and discussion where I asked for ideas on asteroids and part of those possible changes is that we can make many new and current ore variants only mineable by ships able to equip strip miners (barges) for example and non specialised ships would be left to mine the basic varieties. Though I also think there is room equally for out of the box thinking with the barges. Like making the procurer or skiff a ninja miner of sorts so its function is not to simply sit there and mine, but mine in very hostile environments or circumstances.

Kolwrath Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.03.04 21:03:00 - [23] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Though I also think there is room equally for out of the box thinking with the barges. Like making the procurer or skiff a ninja miner of sorts so its function is not to simply sit there and mine, but mine in very hostile environments or circumstances. heh thats a really good idea ... give the procurer a decent tank. Enough of one that it could ninja mine in lowsec no problem. I should put that in the ideas forum .... Originally by: Chaos Space Marines Do you hear the voices, too?!?!
000Hunter000 Gallente Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2008.03.04 22:41:00 - [24] That or give all other ships that are not specifically designed for mining a penalty when fitting more then X number of miners Hm mebbe a stacking penalty like with other mods? _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Stefan F Enrave	Posted - 2008.03.04 22:44:00 - [25] you'd better give it a few wcs points for free and maybe increase its hold size a bit. No tanks please, remember its the very first t1 mining ship, dont make it look like t2.
Dr Aryandi	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:25:00 - [26] How about a very simple bonus to veldspar (and only veldspar) mining efficiency... So it effectively has the same turrets as the mining ship one step bigger but only for one ore.
Thenoran Caldari The People's Liberation Army	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:34:00 - [27] Originally by: CCP Chronotis The issue is not unique to the procurer but its function and role are somewhat redundant and even the tier 3 battleships like the rokh can challenge the exhumers for mining rates. Note that the amount of skills needed for that to happen would mean a serious investment in Industry anyway (Mining, Astrogeology, Refining, Reprocessing etc) so the only change would be the Mining Barge & Exhumers skill to change between ships. In the same time I could've gone for a Retriever I went for the Rokh and Astrogeology, but in the end a Covetor with Mining Upgrades will beat my Rokh by a little, not to mention the big bad Hulk. I was just my preference at the time, as the Retriever is made of fly-paper. It has its downsides however, such as having a small cargohold and not being able to mine Ice. Originally by: CCP Chronotis Personally my own approach to the issue is specialisation. If you followed my blog and discussion where I asked for ideas on asteroids and part of those possible changes is that we can make many new and current ore variants only mineable by ships able to equip strip miners (barges) for example and non specialised ships would be left to mine the basic varieties. Although a cool idea, it would strike me as odd that a Strip Miner (which is like this big shovel) would get all the smaller, more precious, ore/minerals whereas the Mining Lasers (which would be like a scalpel) only get the basic stuff. I would rather see that Strip Miners get the most 'common' ore, but get so much of it along with the more precious goods that it outweighs the normal Mining Lasers which are more precise and take in less 'common' ore. ------------------------ Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2008.03.05 00:09:00 - [28] Originally by: 000Hunter000 Hm mebbe a stacking penalty like with other mods? Mining rate should be stacking penalized really as it is one of the few attributes that is not. The effect of the stacking is minimal on the barges due to the number of low slots. It may well happen some day and is one possible solution but will have to be considered alongside other issues. Originally by: Dr Aryandi How about a very simple bonus to veldspar (and only veldspar) mining efficiency... So it effectively has the same turrets as the mining ship one step bigger but only for one ore. Entirely possible as well though I would prefer it given wider role than just veld mining. Originally by: Thenoran Although a cool idea, it would strike me as odd that a Strip Miner (which is like this big shovel) would get all the smaller, more precious, ore/minerals whereas the Mining Lasers (which would be like a scalpel) only get the basic stuff. I would rather see that Strip Miners get the most 'common' ore, but get so much of it along with the more precious goods that it outweighs the normal Mining Lasers which are more precise and take in less 'common' ore. Think you misunderstood, what I meant was that garden variety veldspar, kernite, spodumain would be mineable by basic mining lasers and strip miners still. However super condensed veldspar, hot fiery kernite and uber gleaming spodumain would be mineable by strip miners only was the idea. There are a lot of ways this can be done though and add a lot of new content along the way and at least provide a niche role for the procurer.

Aprudena Gist Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.05 00:40:00 - [29] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: 000Hunter000 Hm mebbe a stacking penalty like with other mods? Mining rate should be stacking penalized really as it is one of the few attributes that is not. The effect of the stacking is minimal on the barges due to the number of low slots. It may well happen some day and is one possible solution but will have to be considered alongside other issues. Originally by: Dr Aryandi How about a very simple bonus to veldspar (and only veldspar) mining efficiency... So it effectively has the same turrets as the mining ship one step bigger but only for one ore. Entirely possible as well though I would prefer it given wider role than just veld mining. Originally by: Thenoran Although a cool idea, it would strike me as odd that a Strip Miner (which is like this big shovel) would get all the smaller, more precious, ore/minerals whereas the Mining Lasers (which would be like a scalpel) only get the basic stuff. I would rather see that Strip Miners get the most 'common' ore, but get so much of it along with the more precious goods that it outweighs the normal Mining Lasers which are more precise and take in less 'common' ore. Think you misunderstood, what I meant was that garden variety veldspar, kernite, spodumain would be mineable by basic mining lasers and strip miners still. However super condensed veldspar, hot fiery kernite and uber gleaming spodumain would be mineable by strip miners only was the idea. There are a lot of ways this can be done though and add a lot of new content along the way and at least provide a niche role for the procurer. much like the t2 variant is designed to mine merocoxite this one should be designed to be fast and nimble to mine high value ores in low sec. give it a bonus to every ore smaler then plag in the size of asteroid.
Yargo Metash Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.03.05 00:41:00 - [30] Originally by: CCP Chronotis However super condensed veldspar, hot fiery kernite and uber gleaming spodumain would be mineable by strip miners only was the idea. Heavy Veldspar! Giant Scordite! Jade Plagioclase! Platinum Omber! The possibilities for names are ENDLESS! I really like this idea, although it would be another bit of balancing... Then again, 20% more Trit from Veldspar is a LOT of Trit, so mabye not...

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