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littlemissnaughty	Posted - 2008.03.01 00:44:00 - [1] gal recons - razu and lychesis, both poor in performance after damp nerf when you compared to falcon and rapier and curse the razu really does lack in abilty! 1 V 1 nothing gal can use can counter a vaga, rapier not even a nano ishtar. if the nano nerf comes in that will say good bye to the only possible maybe of the nano ishtar. with blasters solo there is nothing you can do against any one the nano mini ships, and the falcon is way overpowered, either up damps a little or give razu a larer bonus to damps... or is there a cost efficient gallente ship to counter rapier and hugins and vagas alike out there??
killerkeano Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2008.03.01 00:50:00 - [2] understand what u are saying, razu is nothing compared to falcon/rapier and curse. Maelstrom Crew - Pro merc corp for hire "Let US fight your battles"
xxxak	Posted - 2008.03.01 00:52:00 - [3] LOLOLOLOLOLO Gallente have almost indisputably the best PVP battleships, some of the best frigates, and one of the best HACs. Sorry bub, but you can't have the best of everything.
killerkeano Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2008.03.01 00:54:00 - [4] which hac is that? the cap injected dual rep deimos?or the nano ishtar that cant keep up with mini recons/hacs? Maelstrom Crew - Pro merc corp for hire "Let US fight your battles"
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.03.01 00:57:00 - [5] Arazu and Lachesis can still put a point on a ship, and damp it down so it cannot lock back. And do useful amounts of DPS at the same time. They're not underpowered at all, they're just not solopwnmobile any more. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Galcray Gallente Sacred Templars DeStInY.	Posted - 2008.03.01 00:58:00 - [6] I definateley agree on Arazu and Lachesis statement...... but........ Originally by: littlemissnaughty 1 V 1 nothing gal can use can counter a vaga, rapier not even a nano ishtar My mega has a large neut, it drains a vaga(or any nano ship for that matter)VERY quickly. He then ether runs, or he is to stupid to do so, and I kill him. If you really wanna counter a nano, fit a neut! Any BS with a neut, honestly, makes nano's CRY. _____________ I have ridden the mighty moon worm.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.03.01 01:00:00 - [7] Originally by: killerkeano which hac is that? the cap injected dual rep deimos?or the nano ishtar that cant keep up with mini recons/hacs? You mean the 4km/sec capless, trackingless nanoishtar, that does 450dps? Yeah, that's CLEARLY underpowered. I mean, it's not like turret based ships have to slow down to hit stuff, is it? -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
xxxak	Posted - 2008.03.01 01:03:00 - [8] Originally by: killerkeano which hac is that? the cap injected dual rep deimos?or the nano ishtar that cant keep up with mini recons/hacs? Absurd post. The Vaga is invincibly fast, yes, and that is broken. It should by nerfed. But the Ishtar is a GREAT and POWERFUL ship, and anyone who denies that simply doesn't have the skill to fly it.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.03.01 01:07:00 - [9] Originally by: xxxak Originally by: killerkeano which hac is that? the cap injected dual rep deimos?or the nano ishtar that cant keep up with mini recons/hacs? Absurd post. The Vaga is invincibly fast, yes, and that is broken. It should by nerfed. But the Ishtar is a GREAT and POWERFUL ship, and anyone who denies that simply doesn't have the skill to fly it. It's fast, but it can do very little damage whilst going fast. When it slows down, it's vulnerable. An Ishtar doesn't have this problem. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Cotton Tail Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.03.01 01:24:00 - [10] Ishtar is far better at speed tanking than the vagabond as the vaga has to slow down to engage. What you're asking for is a damp buff not a gallente buff, gallente on the whole is still probably the second best race in most categories, excelling in short range damage output and drones. However damps could use a buff really, the double nerf to both the module and the implementation of scripts was too much for it, now they're pretty much useless in comparison to ECM.

Rastigan Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.01 01:30:00 - [11] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: killerkeano which hac is that? the cap injected dual rep deimos?or the nano ishtar that cant keep up with mini recons/hacs? You mean the 4km/sec capless, trackingless nanoishtar, that does 450dps? Yeah, that's CLEARLY underpowered. I mean, it's not like turret based ships have to slow down to hit stuff, is it? All you need to do is live 90 seconds and that Ishtar is out of cap just running a MWD and scrambler, which isnt too hard if you can outrun 1km/s Ogre II's ... Of course if he is in range to web you, then you can web him back... A 4km/s Ishtar also implies double poly rigging which brings the total ship cost to near 250mil ISK.
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2008.03.01 01:38:00 - [12] Originally by: Rastigan Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: killerkeano which hac is that? the cap injected dual rep deimos?or the nano ishtar that cant keep up with mini recons/hacs? You mean the 4km/sec capless, trackingless nanoishtar, that does 450dps? Yeah, that's CLEARLY underpowered. I mean, it's not like turret based ships have to slow down to hit stuff, is it? All you need to do is live 90 seconds and that Ishtar is out of cap just running a MWD and scrambler, which isnt too hard if you can outrun 1km/s Ogre II's ... Of course if he is in range to web you, then you can web him back... A 4km/s Ishtar also implies double poly rigging which brings the total ship cost to near 250mil ISK. Same situation with the vaga, doesn't run anywhere close to a long time. CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
Everyone Dies Caldari Lucky Tampon	Posted - 2008.03.01 01:58:00 - [13] sorry gallente is mostly overpowered. if anything caldari need a boost
killerkeano Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2008.03.01 02:25:00 - [14] Edited by: killerkeano on 01/03/2008 02:31:32 ok so the 450 dps u refer to i assume you mean heavy drones??hmm as they can catch a rapier... and how the heck do they keep up with anything, yes nano ishtar IS AWESOME against non nano ships orbit let heavys do work. but how is an ishtar going to inflict any damage on a rapier for example? cant keep up, neither can drones even lights/meds (there goes your 450 dps) , rails tracking at speed is poor? also against curse, neut = no cap = no mwd nano ishtar. against falcon cant send drones if u cant target.. i personally agree and feel the recons are poor for gal, i love my deimos the way it is, without reps just gank Maelstrom Crew - Pro merc corp for hire "Let US fight your battles"
killerkeano Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2008.03.01 02:28:00 - [15] and you cannot say razu is in same league as rapier or curse or falcon even. cant damp something you cant target. Falcon has to be one of best ships in game Maelstrom Crew - Pro merc corp for hire "Let US fight your battles"
killerkeano Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2008.03.01 02:56:00 - [16] maybe some people here spend more time on EFT than eve. i just re read and 450 dps on ishtar is so irrelevant against other hacs, recons. yet a rapier will hit that ishtar again and again and curse will go as fast as that ishtar and suck life outta it. but ishtar is good like a said againt other ships... the gal recons are pish also compared to others imo. Bringing up "gal have best battleships" is about as relevant as what mining crystals chribba uses on his veldaeon.. Maelstrom Crew - Pro merc corp for hire "Let US fight your battles"
Kira Novia	Posted - 2008.03.01 03:04:00 - [17] I concur that since the nerf, the Gallente Recons are useless. Fix the Gallente Recons and I'll give you cookies, CCP.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2008.03.01 03:13:00 - [18] Sensor dampeners used to almost be the only E-war anyone used, now they're not as powerful, but are still perfectly usable. With 3-4 dampeners you can cut someone's lock range to almost nothing or make him take forever to lock, you just can't do both anymore.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.01 03:36:00 - [19] I think the gallente recons are still ok. 1. Curse isnt half as good as people claim it to be. Imo its even pretty crummy tbh with a very thin area of use and for solo there are better ships. 2. Its the falcon that is the broken recon, not so much the others. The falcon is the single most dumbest imbalanced ship there is. A cloaking ship that can totally shut down ECCM'd battleships that just pops up without warning and totally changes outcomes of smaller group engagements is in my eyes very game and fun breaking. 3. Rapier is semi broken. Its another ship that totally invalidates a group of ships that cannot see it coming. Imo both falcon and rapier need a nerf. Huginns and rooks are fine as they are because you can prepare for them, because you can actually see them. But the cloaking versions that are pretty much as powerful become overpowered and thats why everyone is basically using the cloaked version. How often do you see a rook instead of a falcon? How often do you see a huginn instead of a rapier? 4. Gallente is pretty fine overall. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.01 03:55:00 - [20] Originally by: littlemissnaughty gal recons - razu and lychesis, both poor in performance after damp nerf when you compared to falcon and rapier and curse the razu really does lack in abilty! 1 V 1 nothing gal can use can counter a vaga, rapier not even a nano ishtar. ha what a cute nooblet. learn to play. and fyi those recons weren't the only ones who used damps to stay alive.

Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.01 03:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer How often do you see a rook instead of a falcon? How often do you see a huginn instead of a rapier? You obviously have no clue on when to use what.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.03.01 04:03:00 - [22] Originally by: killerkeano Edited by: killerkeano on 01/03/2008 02:31:32 ok so the 450 dps u refer to i assume you mean heavy drones??hmm as they can catch a rapier... and how the heck do they keep up with anything, yes nano ishtar IS AWESOME against non nano ships orbit let heavys do work. but how is an ishtar going to inflict any damage on a rapier for example? cant keep up, neither can drones even lights/meds (there goes your 450 dps) , rails tracking at speed is poor? also against curse, neut = no cap = no mwd nano ishtar. against falcon cant send drones if u cant target.. i personally agree and feel the recons are poor for gal, i love my deimos the way it is, without reps just gank Your arguments have no valid points. 1) Heavy Drones won't "catch" a rapier, but that means that the rapier can't slow down either. They dont have the cap to run the MWD very long at all, and will end up running away. Hammers will definatley catch up to a rapier and melt it's shield. Not to mention that the ONLY thing that a rapier does well is hold targets - it's not so ludacris that a ship that uses travel-time weapons will have trouble fighting one that keeps it's distance. Plus the whole "My x ship is SO going to get owned by that y ship overe there" argument is complete crap. A megathron will own an AC pest 99 out of 100 times... does that mean that the pest is crap? Not to even mention that the ishtar is not a ship that was intended to fly at 4km/s. 2) How is my forced-nano ship supposed to kill these other nano ships? Why can't my MWD cane keep up with other nano ships? It wasn't meant to. That's not it's role. It's not the best nano-ship because it's not one at all. You force it to be a nano ship (and it's a good one too), but then whine when it doesn't do as well as other ships that were meant to have that role. Should I whine when I armor tank my vagabond and then say it doesn't tank as well as an ishtar? 3) The ishtar isn't even a recon ship, you're comparing it against recon ships. 4) Damps got nerfed, and now there's a big cry out saying that they're worthless. HP buff killed artillery's one advantage, but somehow we still find a way to use it. Curses and Pilgrims took a hit with the nos nerf, but they're still used. No, your recons will not be solo-mobiles, and they weren't intended to be. Instead, use them with other recons (huginn perhaps?) to double up on ewar. Astro
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.01 04:20:00 - [23] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 01/03/2008 04:21:41 Originally by: Nasta443 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer How often do you see a rook instead of a falcon? How often do you see a huginn instead of a rapier? You obviously have no clue on when to use what. What the hell are you talking about? Troll much? There isnt much of a drawback using rapier instead of huginn or falcon instead of rook. If youre claiming rooks are seen as often as falcons youre gravely mistaken. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.01 04:30:00 - [24] Originally by: Kyra Felann Sensor dampeners used to almost be the only E-war anyone used, now they're not as powerful, but are still perfectly usable. With 3-4 dampeners you can cut someone's lock range to almost nothing or make him take forever to lock, you just can't do both anymore. You can't do that except with the specialized ships, and then only to one enemy ship. That's way underpowered compared to ECM.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.03.01 04:34:00 - [25] Originally by: Nasta443 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer How often do you see a rook instead of a falcon? How often do you see a huginn instead of a rapier? You obviously have no clue on when to use what. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=653964
vostok Minmatar Suns Of Korhal deadspace society	Posted - 2008.03.01 04:34:00 - [26] Originally by: littlemissnaughty gal recons - razu and lychesis, both poor in performance after damp nerf when you compared to falcon and rapier and curse the razu really does lack in abilty! 1 V 1 nothing gal can use can counter a vaga, rapier not even a nano ishtar. if the nano nerf comes in that will say good bye to the only possible maybe of the nano ishtar. with blasters solo there is nothing you can do against any one the nano mini ships, and the falcon is way overpowered, either up damps a little or give razu a larer bonus to damps... or is there a cost efficient gallente ship to counter rapier and hugins and vagas alike out there?? ROFL - gallente vaga counter = megathron with heavy neut and a mwd with good skills on a mega i could just about track a vaga (tested on a pilot using snakes) at 20km (i had iron ammo) also, vaga has massive cap problems, so as soon as you hit that cap nerfer, the vaga will be forced to back down or die horribly also i hear warrior II are quite nasty though i have yet to test that one arazu/lachelis is quite useless now since the damp nerf AND the nerf to the warfare link affecting damps (thanks for making the Eos so worthwhile ccp - spit - but thats another story i could rant on) anyways once again my verdict is that ccp have lead gloves (they're heavy handed) so when they see that damps are overpowered and an arazu eos combo can lock down and kill a small gang they decide that they should take the course of action that will **** the most people off and nerf yet another ship, module or system file to oblivion
FreddyCheeseman	Posted - 2008.03.01 04:38:00 - [27] Edited by: FreddyCheeseman on 01/03/2008 04:41:21 Gallente aren't the pwnmbile race in EVERY ship class anymore....sob So the recons aren't the absolute best anymore. Tough. They are still good at their jobs, as SUPPORT in small gangs. Recons weren't ever intended to be solo, but to fill a tactical niche. Gallente cruisers, HAC's, BC's, commands, BS's are still some of the most powerful ships in the game for PvP. I for one would not want to run into any of the typical Gal pvp boats in a Caldari equivalent, unless its a stupidly tanked drake or NH, in which case you still couldn't win, just hope to survive. Which is why I TRAINED for Gallente. Dont moan about the ships being crap, if you think something else is better, just learn to fly it. Personally I have a falcon which collects dust in the hangar, whilst my rook is being worn out through use. The rook has better jamming, enough to convince me to use it over the falcon. You only get one use out of the falcon unless you fighting idiots who dont realise if your in local and not visible, thats the ship your in. Scouting's a wonderful thing. Plus ECM is totally chance based, so its always down to a degree of luck as to if you batter them or get your backside handed to you. Cant comment on Minnie recons, Ive never used or flown with them.
vostok Minmatar Suns Of Korhal deadspace society	Posted - 2008.03.01 04:44:00 - [28] Originally by: FreddyCheeseman The OP smacks of sour grapes at Gallente not being the pwnmbile race in EVERY ship class anymore. So the recons aren't the absolute best anymore. Tough. They are still good at their jobs, as SUPPORT in small gangs. Recons weren't ever intended to be solo, but to fill a tactical niche. Gallente cruisers, HAC's, BC's, commands, BS's are still some of the most powerful ships in the game for PvP. I for one would not want to run into any of the typical Gal pvp boats in a Caldari equivalent, unless its a stupidly tanked drake or NH, in which case you still couldn't win, just hope to survive. Which is why I TRAINED for Gallente. Dont moan about the ships being crap, if you think something else is better, just learn to fly it. Personally I have a falcon which collects dust in the hangar, whilst my rook is being worn out through use. The rook has better jamming, enough to convince me to use it over the falcon. You only get one use out of the falcon unless you fighting idiots who dont realise if your in local and not visible, thats the ship your in. Scouting's a wonderful thing. Plus ECM is totally chance based, so its always down to a degree of luck as to if you batter them or get your backside handed to you. Cant comment on Minnie recons, Ive never used or flown with them. for comparison purposes here, an arazu used to be able to get its damps to i believe something like 90% damp on range and lock time... this meant it could lock down as many ships as it had damps quite easily - this was overpowered now an arazu will struggle to make a single battleship's lock range go under 10km, if that BS has a sensor booster, it will fail, this makes damps on an arazu almost useless now and damps on any other ship almost certainly useless - this is underpowered and a tribute to ccp not really playing eve
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.01 04:52:00 - [29] Originally by: vostok now an arazu will struggle to make a single battleship's lock range go under 10km, if that BS has a sensor booster, it will fail, this makes damps on an arazu almost useless now and damps on any other ship almost certainly useless - this is underpowered and a tribute to ccp not really playing eve Welcome down to earth. Pilgrim cant defend itself against a battleship either. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
vostok Minmatar Suns Of Korhal deadspace society	Posted - 2008.03.01 04:58:00 - [30] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: vostok now an arazu will struggle to make a single battleship's lock range go under 10km, if that BS has a sensor booster, it will fail, this makes damps on an arazu almost useless now and damps on any other ship almost certainly useless - this is underpowered and a tribute to ccp not really playing eve Welcome down to earth. Pilgrim cant defend itself against a battleship either. please leave lyria, you generally suck and your comments are more often than not completely worthless based on no real truth at all i have been attacked by a pilgrim in gang while in a BS and it served the very admiral purpose of emptying my cap in a matter of moments, which, i would imagine it will still do should you meet somebody other than a noob in one, where, an arazu might reduce my target range to maybe 20km, more? where i would promptly lock anything that had warped close to me and end it



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