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PhantomMenace Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.03 03:20:00 - [1] I dunno about you guys , but im sick of the political idiots going on about banning so called violent games when there is simply no evidence to support their moronic claims that games make us violent. The idiots that run our country wage illegal wars killing thousends, abuse their position and expensies while trying harder than ever before to control and moniter our every move with more and more cameras and so called safety cameras (otherwise correctly known as speed cameras)while lieing to us telling us its all for our own good and constantly increasing tax rates and telling us what to eat and not to eat I say the virtual world is a much better place , we have our freedom .Hardly ever does a gamer physicaly hurt another gamer , we hardly ever experiance racial , sexual or any other forms of abuse we eat drink what and when we like without someone telling us its bad for us , even so the goverment is trying now to intrude in our virtual lives by looking for a way to tax players . In the uk they have even gone so low as to introduce death tax , when will the abuse and intrusion into our lives by the goverment end ?.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.03.03 03:22:00 - [2] in before Jack Thompson Fight Piracy - Encourage PvP in Lowsec!
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 03:44:00 - [3] Jack Thompson won't be in... he's busy suing NIU for the shooting Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.03.03 03:52:00 - [4] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Jack Thompson won't be in... he's busy suing NIU for the shooting is this guy serious? someone give him a lobotomy! --- Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2008.03.03 05:12:00 - [5] It's all politics, man, has nothing to do will the real issue. Kinda like gun bans and oil "shortages" but that's another thread.
PhantomMenace Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.03 05:18:00 - [6] well the firearms ban was another thing , after dunblane which was partly the fault of the police , read sandra uttleys dunblane unburied , someone had to suffer which became the shooters of which i am one . strange how the gun crime in the uk has risen a great deal since the hand in though
AndrewRyan	Posted - 2008.03.03 05:34:00 - [7] Originally by: PhantomMenace well the firearms ban was another thing , after dunblane which was partly the fault of the police , read sandra uttleys dunblane unburied , someone had to suffer which became the shooters of which i am one . strange how the gun crime in the uk has risen a great deal since the hand in though Only handguns where banned after the tragedy at Dunblane and pump action or automatic shotguns where banned after the Hungerford shootings but that makes total sense as weapons like that have no place in society as they are primarily designed to kill people and have no real sporting use like hunting rifles or shotguns. Its only really the Americans that witness and suffer massacres and school shootings time and time again and then argue that people have the "right" to own devices intended to kill other human beings. ========================================= A Man chooses, a slave obeys.
PhantomMenace Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.03 05:50:00 - [8] Firstly they are not weopons they are firearms , secondly pump and semi auto shotguns are not illegal in the uk they come under a section one firearm only full auto are illegal but then anything in the uk full auto is illegal . Thirdly there is a sport for pump and semi auto shotguns , its called practical shotgun and its a good discapline to learn .
AndrewRyan	Posted - 2008.03.03 06:05:00 - [9] Originally by: PhantomMenace Firstly they are not weopons they are firearms , secondly pump and semi auto shotguns are not illegal in the uk they come under a section one firearm only full auto are illegal but then anything in the uk full auto is illegal . Thirdly there is a sport for pump and semi auto shotguns , its called practical shotgun and its a good discapline to learn . Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 Also something that is designed to injure or kill somebody is a weapon, sure they are also firearms but they are still weapons. ========================================= A Man chooses, a slave obeys.
MalVortex	Posted - 2008.03.03 06:16:00 - [10] Originally by: AndrewRyan Originally by: PhantomMenace Firstly they are not weopons they are firearms , secondly pump and semi auto shotguns are not illegal in the uk they come under a section one firearm only full auto are illegal but then anything in the uk full auto is illegal . Thirdly there is a sport for pump and semi auto shotguns , its called practical shotgun and its a good discapline to learn . Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 Also something that is designed to injure or kill somebody is a weapon, sure they are also firearms but they are still weapons. Under that definition, no firearm is a weapon. They are designed to launch small metal projectiles at high velocity. You'll note nowhere in their engineering documentation the intention to harm or kill people. You'd have a better argument against some ammunitions - as those specifically are designed to interact with softtissue in certain ways, but FMJ, AP and other rounds would also be exempt from such a worthless definition as you have provided.
PhantomMenace Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.03 06:22:00 - [11] im not gona get dragged into an argument in this , but pumps and semi auto or not illegal in the uk under a section one firearm . lots of guys at out club has them and people are still geting them , the police dont like you having them but we use them at a club right next to stanstead airport. ive got a 10/22 semi auto and i did hear the police are trying to ban those , the gun laws in the uk are the strictist in the world atm
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 06:29:00 - [12] Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 03/03/2008 06:31:30 Yeah, I'm only going to post in this once too... my thoughts (posted on the forums by someone a couple years ago...). Also note that all the school shootings happen at campuses that don't allow students to carry, wonder why. So in my head I see this a much smaller scale of what happens in places like the UK with extensive gun control. and on editing I'd like to add I'm getting the ** out of California in the next few months to move to Arizona! \/ I'm going to university there to major in gunsmithing Originally by:** Avaricia look a goon lol
PhantomMenace Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.03 06:44:00 - [13] well surfin , after a bad shooting in dunblane we had to hand in all handguns , the thing is hamilton the guy that did the shooting had been booted from several gun clubs here in the uk and they did tell the police that hamilton was unfit to hold firearms , the firearm license dept told the assistant cheif constable who happend to be in the same mason lodge as hamiltong over ruled this dissicion and signed the license for hamilton , he later got promoted and retired on full pension after the shootings . but since the hand in gun crime has got really bad over here but then so has the amount of teenagers kiiling people in knife attacks and just kicking people to death , the prisons are full so they only get silly sentances. anyway , this is all old ground and i dont wanna get into a debate abut gun control etc
WhiteSavage Dark Force Recon Blood and Steel	Posted - 2008.03.03 06:55:00 - [14] The fact is everything that you do effects you. If you run into a lot of walls, that effects you. If you drink a lot of beer, that effects you. If you watch a lot of violent movies, that effects you. If you play a lot of violent video games, that effects you. The mistake a lot of peeps r making is suggesting the extreme... that lil Johnny will play GTA4 and then kill his friend. But an excess of anything can have negative effects. Just a week ago a 4rth grader in my home town stabbed another kid in his class. When asked why he was quoted at stating he was angry cuz the other kid "got a lot of A's." ...Things like this quite frankly did not happen 20 years ago. People forget how much columbine shocked the nation. That was only a few years ago. Now school shootings are normal. Are violent video games to blame? No. But they add to the growth of a voilent society. ___________________________________________ ..My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes
EvilWezal Amarr Eye of God Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.03.03 07:10:00 - [15] Im a Deputy Sheriff in America. I dont think video games make kids violent. Its the parents that are not PARENTING anymore. We get calls all the time from parents who cant control there kids. They want US to do something. We tell them to beat there little arses and be a parent. Its not our job. On the topic of gun control. I think all guns should be avaiable to the public. You are only FREE if you can back it up. Gun control is a slippery slope to a Dictactor. Just my 2 cents.
AndrewRyan	Posted - 2008.03.03 07:33:00 - [16] Originally by: MalVortex Originally by: AndrewRyan Originally by: PhantomMenace Firstly they are not weopons they are firearms , secondly pump and semi auto shotguns are not illegal in the uk they come under a section one firearm only full auto are illegal but then anything in the uk full auto is illegal . Thirdly there is a sport for pump and semi auto shotguns , its called practical shotgun and its a good discapline to learn . Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 Also something that is designed to injure or kill somebody is a weapon, sure they are also firearms but they are still weapons. Under that definition, no firearm is a weapon. They are designed to launch small metal projectiles at high velocity. You'll note nowhere in their engineering documentation the intention to harm or kill people. You'd have a better argument against some ammunitions - as those specifically are designed to interact with softtissue in certain ways, but FMJ, AP and other rounds would also be exempt from such a worthless definition as you have provided. My definition might not have been great but the logic behind it is perfect any handgun or rifle or shotgun designed for military use or for law enforcement is a weapon. Can you seriously claim that a Beretta pistol or an Assault rifle was not designed to kill? It may not list in the documentation but the designer sure as hell was attempting to design a efficient killing device. Originally by: PhantomMenace im not gona get dragged into an argument in this , but pumps and semi auto or not illegal in the uk under a section one firearm . lots of guys at out club has them and people are still geting them , the police dont like you having them but we use them at a club right next to stanstead airport. ive got a 10/22 semi auto and i did hear the police are trying to ban those , the gun laws in the uk are the strictist in the world atm You truly are dumb read the link to the Government article I posted its the exact law amendments that where implanted after the Hungerford shootings and it includes pump action shotguns and it also defines the exact parameters of a shotgun including "either has no magazine or has a non-detachable magazine incapable of holding more than two cartridges". ========================================= A Man chooses, a slave obeys.
PhantomMenace Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.03 07:46:00 - [17] k i can see clearly andrewryan has no brain so will pod at my earliest convienance to put him out his misery . God points made white savage , ive watched loads of videos on youtube on game addiction and about violent games etc , and just cant see games make people violent i think its more the lack of discpaline in kids and yeah i agree with natinal service , in the uk its got silly now you cant slap your kids for doing stuff wrong cos thats assualt teachers are afraid to break up fights in the playground ,unless its andrewryan then they happily shove the discreate boot in whilst stamping on his dumb head :) , the worlds gone crazy . evilweazel i did read an article about places in the usa where they do carry firearms and they said they dont get road rage (another uk problem which i have to confess ive been provoked into doing in the past) cos people dont get out their cars cos they dont know if the other guy is armed or not . btw andrewryan look at section 5 firearms that will please you
Ademaro Imre Caldari	Posted - 2008.03.03 08:09:00 - [18] Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 03/03/2008 08:13:35 Originally by: PhantomMenace I dunno about you guys , but im sick of the political idiots going on about banning so called violent games when there is simply no evidence to support their moronic claims that games make us violent. There is good evidence that today's games can desensitize a person. But those that want to ban violent games will not even use this evidence and probbaly do not even know about it. The greatest innovation in infantry combat training has been "pop-up" targets. The first serious pyschological studies of war occurred during World War II. It was found that very few soldiers would aim their weapons to kill, and would more often than not, be reluctant to pull the trigger if they knew they might kill or seriously hurt someone. In war, this is a real problem because people are raised not to kill. World War II training after these first studies, made a change from bullseye targets to silhouettes. The tendency of the soldiers to shoot the enemy almost doubled. It was still no better than 50%. This sort of training progressed through the Korean War using pop-up targets. A soldier would be trained to shoot anything downrange that "popped up." And in the Vietnam War, the pop-up targets has stuff on them to explode to mimic body damage. The tendency to shoot became something like 97% during the Vietnam War, training became more like a real combat experience. And video games, are just like those pop-up targets. They won't make someone violent, but they have done half of the work of any modern army training program. I am not saying they should be banned, I just think its interesting. The aim of politics is to keep the populace alarmed and clamorous to be saved by menacing it with imaginary hobgoblins. The urge to save humanity is a false front for the urge to rule it.
Roxanna Kell FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.03 08:13:00 - [19] Violent video games + No guns allowed = Just harmless pass time Violent Video games + Guns allowed = well, you know. Quote: You are what you are, fool
PhantomMenace Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.03 08:19:00 - [20] Ademaro , there is a clip on youtube where they are training solders on simulaters which is probly what gaming will be like in 5-10 and i cant wait , im to tired to find the link right now cos i been working all night and about to have a couple of beers b4 bed zzzzzzz
Ademaro Imre Caldari	Posted - 2008.03.03 08:20:00 - [21] Originally by: AndrewRyan Its only really the Americans that witness and suffer massacres and school shootings time and time again and then argue that people have the "right" to own devices intended to kill other human beings. The same way we defend the priviledge to own and operate automobiles. There are three times as many pedestrians (note not even in a car) that are killed by automobiles than those murdered by firearms. The aim of politics is to keep the populace alarmed and clamorous to be saved by menacing it with imaginary hobgoblins. The urge to save humanity is a false front for the urge to rule it.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 08:25:00 - [22] Oh, if the US ever tried to make it's citizens hand in their firearms it'd be the second civil war. I got guys in my company that started making caches of AK series rifles (What better rifle to be buried for years, huh? ) and stockpiling ammo the second Hillary announced she'd be running for presidency Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
MalVortex	Posted - 2008.03.03 08:50:00 - [23] Edited by: MalVortex on 03/03/2008 08:51:37 Edited by: MalVortex on 03/03/2008 08:51:18 Originally by: AndrewRyan My definition might not have been great but the logic behind it is perfect any handgun or rifle or shotgun designed for military use or for law enforcement is a weapon. Can you seriously claim that a Beretta pistol or an Assault rifle was not designed to kill? It may not list in the documentation but the designer sure as hell was attempting to design a efficient killing device. If your logic is perfect your definition wouldn't be so terrible. "Assault rifle" is a terrible definition - the only thing that makes an "assault rifle" an assault rifle is its styling. Thats it. Berretta makes a number of pistols, and they're all street legal (well, depending on your street I suppose ). You can take most any modern gun, change its casing, grip, etc. and go from a "hunting rifle" to an "assault rifle". Militaries order guns with a couple characteristics: 1) price 2) reliability 3) accuracy 4) ease of use/repair 5) weight 6) ammo type. Did you see "lethality" on there anywhere? Hell, the Geneva Convention doesn't even allow HP ammo to be used in war. A 9mm glock with Hydroshock rounds will have a higher rate of death per hit than an M16A2. edit: formatting
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 09:03:00 - [24] We use the M16A4s now But yeah, you gotta hit someone 3-5 times to effectively stop them. The USMC has dusted off it's old M14s and those are making a nice little comeback. You get hit with one of those once, even from behind a wall and you're down for good Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
AndrewRyan	Posted - 2008.03.03 09:06:00 - [25] Originally by: PhantomMenace k i can see clearly andrewryan has no brain so will pod at my earliest convienance to put him out his misery . God points made white savage , ive watched loads of videos on youtube on game addiction and about violent games etc , and just cant see games make people violent i think its more the lack of discpaline in kids and yeah i agree with natinal service , in the uk its got silly now you cant slap your kids for doing stuff wrong cos thats assualt teachers are afraid to break up fights in the playground ,unless its andrewryan then they happily shove the discreate boot in whilst stamping on his dumb head :) , the worlds gone crazy . evilweazel i did read an article about places in the usa where they do carry firearms and they said they dont get road rage (another uk problem which i have to confess ive been provoked into doing in the past) cos people dont get out their cars cos they dont know if the other guy is armed or not . btw andrewryan look at section 5 firearms that will please you Read the article you half wit, Quote: (ac) any self-loading or pump-action smooth-bore gun which is not chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24 inches in length or (excluding any detachable, folding, retractable or other movable butt-stock) is less than 40 inches in length overall And section 5 just covers the ammunition types, Quote: Restriction on sale of ammunition for smooth-bore guns (1) This section applies to ammunition to which section 1 of the principal Act does not apply and which is capable of being used in a shot gun or in a smooth-bore gun to which that section applies. (2) It is an offence for a person to sell any such ammunition to another person in the United Kingdom who is neither a registered firearms dealer nor a person who sells such ammunition by way of trade or business unless that other personù (a) produces a certificate authorising him to possess a gun of a kind mentioned in subsection (1) above; or (b) shows that he is by virtue of that Act or this Act entitled to have possession of such a gun without holding a certificate; or (c) produces a certificate authorising another person to possess such a gun, together with that personÆs written authority to purchase the ammunition on his behalf. (3) An offence under this section shall be punishable on summary conviction with imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both. ========================================= A Man chooses, a slave obeys.
Dan Glebitts One Ton Banana	Posted - 2008.03.03 09:08:00 - [26] Originally by: PhantomMenace the gun laws in the uk are the strictist in the world atm That would be Japan if memory serves. It helps that there entire culture loathes the mere concept of guns. Violent games creates violent individuals = lol Guns ARE designed to kill people. Thats why they were invented. And no human should own or operate a gun... It has no place in any respectable society.
Bosie Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.03.03 09:21:00 - [27] OMG back in the days of the Roman empire folks used to kill for fun, this was before CS or even GTA was thought of!!111 Humans kill humans, FACT! "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is ENGLAND
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 09:26:00 - [28] Originally by: Bosie OMG back in the days of the Roman empire folks used to kill for fun, this was before CS or even GTA was thought of!!111 Humans kill humans, FACT! They didn't have guns either Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.03.03 09:45:00 - [29] If I conquor the world using spaceships and rename London Jita as my Imperial capital - you know Jack Thompson called it okay? Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Suze'Rain Caldari	Posted - 2008.03.03 10:23:00 - [30] Originally by: Bosie OMG back in the days of the Roman empire folks used to kill for fun, this was before CS or even GTA was thought of!!111 Amplitudo Furtum Roma! Chariot-Jacking outside the coliseum. Genius! let's market it right away... ahem actually, on the original post, my personal opinion as a designer in the games industry is that we're no worse than film or stage. (hell, look at shakespeare's plays for pop culture violence of the era. Romeo and Juliet, the Montagues and Capulets swaggering with rapiers is no different, really, from the "guns, b*tches and bling" of GTA San Andreas.) Where the games industry does descend lower is in two areas: Interactivity, and replayability - specifically, whereas you can watch Hard Boiled or Grindhouse again and again, in a game you can be the one enacting the killing, and if it does'nt happen the way you want, then it can be replayed from saved games again and again. What's needed, really, to prevent the allegations is more cause and effect, to show that violence is a last resort. Games like GTA unfortunately tend to revel in the violence, in that you get nailed by the police, and walk away free 2 mins later. That element of gameplay does need to be addressed to some degree to undermine the allegations of idiotic maniacs like Jack Thompson. (though at least in GTA IV we'll get to murder a parody of him. I place my statement here. first mod to reach notoriety for IV will not be a "hot coffee", it'll be a "rename the lawyer to Jack Thompson" mod) Actually, it's what I like about eve - you gank someone, you lose sec, and in empire the ship, and it's gone for good. great cause and effect for actions. We need more of that in the games people push out.

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