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The Raven - good pvp ship, bad reputation ?

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Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 17:58:00 - [31] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Ogul I don't think counting PDUs as (shield) tank slots makes any kind of sense. You're right - extra shield HP and extra cap to rep that shield with are nothing to do with tank. Not if it takes two PDUs to match one LSE. And active shield tanking a Raven for PvP is kind of... Well what else are you going to do with all that cap? Fit another 12 Invuln IIs? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.03.03 18:01:00 - [32] Originally by: Malcanis Well what else are you going to do with all that cap? Fit another 12 Invuln IIs? That's kind of my point, you don't really need any more cap. If you are running an XL booster nothing but a cap booster will be able to prevent you from capping out. And if not, there is only the mwd to put all that cap to some use. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Stuart Price Caldari Havoc Inc Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.03.03 18:30:00 - [33] Good grief, I remember when Raven's were an instant IWIN button against ANYTHING smaller than a battleship, every time. But then I also remember the days before signature resolution on guns as well. Before that it was invul-tanked beampocs and 8 heat sink 'geddons. Currently, the Raven shines as torp-based small gang gankship or a fof-spewing counter to ECM. Apparently some people use it for 'missions', whatever they are. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
Donna Maria Amarr	Posted - 2008.03.04 03:38:00 - [34] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Ok the torp raven seems to be accepted, noticed that too. But i didnt make that good expiriences with it so far, usually the target was out of range (30km is not much on a slow ship) and i didn't manage to fit 6 siege II, tank and mwd and enough damagemods. In addition to that i was jammed quite often. So i was wondering what you think about a cruise missile raven, it was especially for cruise missiles, where i got negative feedback, something like "only carebears and noobs use ravens" (this was referred to my cruise missile raven). Have 20% of cruise missile specialisation 5 trained now, not sure if i shall continue (20+ days left). How do you think about a totally maxed out cruise missile raven, evry last % of damage trained, faction missiles, at least 3 bcu, every module t2. Can this be a serious pvp ships, without the pilot having to excuse himself all the time, for bringing this ship and weapontype to pvp ? MWD Web Painter Grav Sensor backup array RSD(2x) Armor Tank Im the girl momma warned you about..
Commander Shag No Trademark Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.04 04:05:00 - [35] Originally by: WhiteSavage I'll fight a Raven in my Mega any day of the week :D If the raven is fitted properly and stays out of your optimal, you would die horribly.
Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.03.04 05:37:00 - [36] Edited by: Spenz on 04/03/2008 05:37:42 Originally by: Commander Shag Originally by: WhiteSavage I'll fight a Raven in my Mega any day of the week :D If the raven is fitted properly and stays out of your optimal, you would die horribly. Yep. A well fit torp raven can easily kill a mega. A shield raven (even if it is just a passive fit) goes faster than a plate-mega, is more agile, does about the same dps, and has almost twice the range. It also doesn't have to worry about tracking so transversal won't be a problem unlike the mega (especially if the mega is using T2 ammo which it will be), and since the mega will have a giant sig due to the MWD, the raven won't have to worry about using a painter much (or even fit one if the fight was pre-planned). And if the mega is NOT plate-tanked......lol!. You could probably fit a large neutralizer on the raven (I'm not really sure though) and take advantage of your cap-less weapons (by putting the spare cap saved towards draining his). If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.03.04 17:19:00 - [37] Originally by: Spenz It also doesn't have to worry about tracking so transversal won't be a problem unlike the mega (especially if the mega is using T2 ammo which it will be), and since the mega will have a giant sig due to the MWD, the raven won't have to worry about using a painter much (or even fit one if the fight was pre-planned). Remind me, is an mwding plated Mega slower or faster than the 250 m/s base explosion velocity of a torpedo? --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
FluterEx	Posted - 2008.03.04 20:44:00 - [38] The Raven can be good in solo PvP but you have to have very good skills. If you meet a Raven with two support ships (one for Cap-transfer and one for the Tackling) its going to be your worst nightmare as soon as it gets in Range.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.06 05:34:00 - [39] Originally by: Sky Marshal Edited by: Sky Marshal on 03/03/2008 16:13:34 Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Missile boats are not snipers. Raven Cruise can be a decent sniper in Fleet battle, as the most important is not that who can shoot instantly or not, but who lag and who don't lag. If you don't lag, your missiles has the time to travel to their target same primarys ones, and do better dps. I managed to do some kills this way, but in an ideal situation (no lag), of course, this ship would not be good. Excuse me, why are you posting faked quotes ? I never said that. In fact i agree that a cruise raven can be used for sniping. Of corse this only counts for small and middle sized gangs. It takes quite a while till the first volley gets to the target, but once there the dps is higher than on any other sniper, so after a few volleys the initial delay is more than compensated. What i don't like is that some FC fail to understand that and reject a raven. The arguement is the same like people post here: fleet combats. But to be honest i didn't see much fleet combets so far, i was in a pvp alliance for 1 month and there was only 1 occasion during the whole time, where we had a bigger fight where the enemy was at sniping distance, and this lead to a nodecrash anyways. Most of the times the battles happened at gates / stations within few km. So its strange that this ship is rejected just because its not good at some very rare situations. Im thinking about training large guns aswell now, did anyone try 6 cruise launchers + 2 large railguns ? I checked my setup, it should be possible to fit, next to t2 cruise launchers and a t2 tank/dps setup. Whats the additional dps from 2 rails without any ship bonus and no damagemods (not going to fit turret damagemods next to bcus) ?
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection	Posted - 2008.03.06 08:28:00 - [40] Torp Raven with MWD and buffer tank is great for small gang fights. Fleet fights, I'd grab a Scorpion or Rokh as others have suggested. I wouldn't try to solo with it, but with support I put out great damage at decent ranges with enough EHP to survive against a small gang for long enough to put the hurt on enemies' BS and BCs. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Rahvin Damodred The White Star Consortium Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.03.06 10:45:00 - [41] Edited by: Rahvin Damodred on 06/03/2008 10:48:09 When the enemy support group of ECM's, Damps, Tracking Disrupts nullifies your snipers, the Raven can at least still use F.O.F's and be usefull . Turret ships are sitting ducks against Ewar. It's not always about the DPS in games of Rock, Paper, Scissors. "Pia Fidelis - Faithfull and Loyal"
AnKahn Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.03.06 17:26:00 - [42] Have flown Raven's in PvP many times, One of the only legitamate reasons a FC might reject a Raven in his gang is because he wants to do a hit and run op and has told his mate to bring only BC and below. A FC who tells a player to park his Raven and bring a Scorp instead is a micromanaging azzhole and I would park my Raven and go watch TV. Possibly leave the corp. EvE nerd jerk idiots with delusions of virtual granduer need not be followed into battle. Worse if they ask you what your set up is and suggest changes. You should know your corp mates and trust them to know which ship to bring because they know their SP and their actual skills. If there are 14 BS in a gang and the FC needs some tackle, EWAR, or anti EWAR then great, say so and let the gang work it out amoung themselves. The god mode FC will get you killed. There are actually about 3 FCs I know who I would risk my ship for. They have many times got me back to my hanger victorious. The best ones let you know what they are doing and why. EvE is a slow game so there's time. Only an idiot FC would say park your Raven and jump in a Domi, unless it was because remote armor repair was needed. /rant off You get my point. Ask me how I really feel about it. Oh and I'm still on the fence still about Torp vs. cruise.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.03.06 21:49:00 - [43] Originally by: Rahvin Damodred Edited by: Rahvin Damodred on 06/03/2008 10:48:09 When the enemy support group of ECM's, Damps, Tracking Disrupts nullifies your snipers, the Raven can at least still use F.O.F's and be usefull . Turret ships are sitting ducks against Ewar. It's not always about the DPS in games of Rock, Paper, Scissors. Actually FoFs only go 80km. That's hardly sniper range. shrug. Ravens IMO are awful fleet ships, especially compare to the Rokh and the Scorpion. They're quite acceptable BS heavy firesupport though, and have some pros over the alternatives. Indeed, when adequately supported, a Raven is a whole bag of hurt in a box, and I'd consider using it over a Megathron, Tempest or Apoc in a gang support situation. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium	Posted - 2008.03.07 09:24:00 - [44] The raven is an excellent ship for gang PvP. Blaster level DPS at up to 30km range is a HUGE advantage compared to a gun boat. However, it's slow, has only a mediocre passive tank (no tank bonus, which is fine), and doesn't do solo very well. I usually wind up fitting ECM in my mids and a plate tank + damage mods in the lows. In a BS gang you've usually got remote support in the event you get shot up, and 6 skilled jammers can usually take the DPS off of you in quite a hurry. ________ Originally by: Tarminic I believe your mother should have re-rolled her birth control.
F90OEX	Posted - 2008.03.07 11:18:00 - [45] Raven is a great pvp ship. Anyone who's fought me would tell you the same thing :)
Aero Zolic DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.07 11:37:00 - [46] Originally by: F90OEX Raven is a great pvp ship. Anyone who's fought me would tell you the same thing :) Tell us your secret setup and secret tactics
LWMaverick	Posted - 2008.03.07 11:53:00 - [47] Originally by: WhiteSavage I'll fight a Raven in my Mega any day of the week :D ^^ What he said. Never ever feared a raven tbh, and never will. /Mav <3
Chuck Skull BBK Corp	Posted - 2008.03.07 11:53:00 - [48] Edited by: Chuck Skull on 07/03/2008 11:53:50 Originally by: James Lyrus a Raven is a whole bag of hurt in a box It really is, hugely bad rep, propagated by just about everyone. A torp fitted CNR will tear through the best BS tanks in short order and has a tidy HP buffer or enough cap for a respectable active tank. A normal raven is a bit weaker but can still deal out a lot of pain. For a faction BS a CNR is pretty cheap. In some fights not needing cap to fire is a lifesaver. Personally I prefer a scorp for small fleet work, yeah I get primaried constantly, but with that much ECM you can knock out a huge amount of the opposing fleets DPS very quickly if you know what you're doing(Autorepeat is not your friend). If you want a huge amount of dps on the cheap then look at a raven. --- Also available in 'sober'
LWMaverick	Posted - 2008.03.07 11:56:00 - [49] I keep hearing all this "T2 Sheer dmg etc.", what exactly is that? Can someone please do the math/a setup? i haven no idea how to fit a raven in EFT or ingame. /Mav <3
Paraiyan	Posted - 2008.03.08 00:43:00 - [50] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Malcanis Rejoice as, even with 3 BCS and a sensor booster, you still enjoy a 7-slot tank that you can use all of your cap to sustain (unless you feel like hitting him with a heavy neutraliser as well, just for lulz). I don't think counting PDUs as (shield) tank slots makes any kind of sense. I would assume the 7th piece of the tank is a Damage Control Unit, but what the hell do I know
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium	Posted - 2008.03.08 01:24:00 - [51] Originally by: LWMaverick I keep hearing all this "T2 Sheer dmg etc.", what exactly is that? Can someone please do the math/a setup? i haven no idea how to fit a raven in EFT or ingame. /Mav Okay m8, I had a huge post ready and then the forums ate it. So... Time to write it again and copy it in notepad. Let me start with this: (considering you asked about EFT) Assuming max skills for comparison. DPS Raven - 6xSiege launcher II's, Caldari Navy torps, 3 Ballistic Control II's, 2 Ogre II's, 2 Hammerhead II's, and 1 Hob II. 1158 DPS with drones 948 DPS without drones Mega - 7xNeutron II's, Caldari Navy AM, 3 Magstab II's, 5 Ogre II's. 1252 DPS with drones 935 DPS without drones Range Raven - 30km Mega - 4.5km with 15km Falloff Damage Type Raven - All, no single ammo damage bonus in this ship. (thank god, kinetic only bonuses I don't like) - No cap use Mega - Kinetic/Thermal only - Lots of cap use Tank Raven - Shield buffer or active, ECM + plates is viable as well. Mega - Armor only, passive without cap injector or active with cap injector (you're never running guns + reps without injectors sadly) Explained Raven - does all of it's DPS out to 30km while being able to select damage types. Drones are not as important to it's DPS and thus if they are killed you do more DPS than a mega period at all ranges. Mega - You need a MWD, no exceptions. Blaster boats without speed mods are impossible to fly. This bites into your capacitor as well as using a slot that the raven doesn't need. I think that's a good start, if I get bored tonight I'll write some more on the subject. BTW I fly a Siege raven with ECM and plates, it's an excellent ship and I would recommend it to anyone who wants to feel the thrill of flying caldari again. ________ Originally by: Tarminic I believe your mother should have re-rolled her birth control.

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