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My job as a Salvager

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syphurous Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.06 22:55:00 - [31] Code Of Ethics ? WTF ? Its space junk, if I salvage it before anyone else, its mine. Just because you precieve something as unethical does not mean it is. Anyone has the right to salvage and you just need to let go that that little bit of trash has nothing to do with you until you salvage it. Originally by: GM Faolchu People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong.
Commander OTG Caldari Logistic Exposium Industries	Posted - 2008.03.07 07:26:00 - [32] And there in lies the difference between us. While you perceive that the space trash belongs to the fastest ship. I choose to respect the work/effort that it took to create said wrecks. If the mission runners chose to take a week off...most of the salvagers would starve. Few of you create your own wrecks. Originally by: GM Faolchu It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
CetusOfAsuran Caldari GHOSTS OF THE FIRST AND ONLY	Posted - 2008.03.07 12:01:00 - [33] Originally by: Xiano cough Little Angel cough lol yes i knowe where you run missions if you come across this little annoyance rollover bonus lotto
Sigul Siento	Posted - 2008.03.07 14:14:00 - [34] Edited by: Sigul Siento on 07/03/2008 14:14:27 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton the problem is most people don't have a code of ethics and enter missions where the players intended on salvaging. Intended to do, but haven't done. If intent to do something should be enough to preclude others from doing it first, we get into "I intended to mine that roid/shoot that belt rat" as well. Waiting with the intended salvaging till the mission is done is a choice of convinience, me and the rest of the "unethical" salvagers provides some risk to that choice, making it a real choice instead of a no-brainer. I have a code of ethics, along the lines of "Take what you can, give nothing back".
Dr Caligo	Posted - 2008.03.07 15:43:00 - [35] Originally by: Commander OTG Edited by: Commander OTG on 05/03/2008 08:05:15 I did mention that I maxxed the skills pertaining to probing, hacking, salvaging and covert ops....those would include the ones you are pointing out also To be specific, i have the following... Cloaking 5 Covert Ops 5 Signature analysis 5 Survey 5 Salvaging 5 Archaeology 5 Astrometric Pinpointing 5 Astrometric Triangulation 5 Astrometrics 5 Hacking 5 Signal Acquisition 5 Cybernetics 5 I run full set of prospector implants and T2 rigs
Commander OTG Caldari Logistic Exposium Industries	Posted - 2008.03.07 16:32:00 - [36] There is no doubt that a change is coming. It has happened in the past with the Nano domi's, with the over powering NOS, with flagging can flippers. There is a rallying force and it is snowballing as more and more salvagers are entering missions and making the mission runners aware that they are less safe then ever. CCP has made a statement that salvaging is an intended mechanic, however I believe they are re-thinking their stance as they see the griefing that is going beyond mere salvaging. Mission specific items are being taken and either ransomed or worse yet, destroyed in retaliation for the runner destroying the wrecks. Everyone has their opinion and I do not judge them for theirs. I merely see an oportunity for salvagers and mission runners to benefit from each others skills, rather then suffer "raod rage" as it were. Originally by: GM Faolchu It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2008.03.07 17:01:00 - [37] I don't know about that. My impression has been that the high point of outrage against salvaging mechanics peaked a few months ago, and that CCP has been more direct about this being what they were aiming for since before salvage was implemented with Kali. I always find talking about the popularity or lack of popularity of game mechanics, and speculating on the pressure on CCP to change them, interesting, but basically very pointless and meta though. At least compared to making arguments about how something is good or bad for the game. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Commander OTG Caldari Logistic Exposium Industries	Posted - 2008.03.07 17:48:00 - [38] I will look into it more tonight. I recall a recent post by a Dev that they were looking into the issues. I can't provide a link now and I may absolutely be mistaking this for a member post, but I am fairly confidant that I am correct. Originally by: GM Faolchu It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
Myshella Drake Caldari Eishie	Posted - 2008.03.07 19:55:00 - [39] I think the issue will dissolve over time to be honest. There will always be the odd whiner but i think mission runners will gradually begin to accept it and adapt their playing habits to coup. The problem is that they have gone too long in there own little bubble, now that bubble can be burst by some else and they are put right back into EVE instead of mission runners online. Personally i think CCP will focus more on making other salvaging opportunities for salvagers rather than change the mechanic in any way. If they can attract salvagers to other more profitable venues besides missions then it will at the very least help the current so called "unfairness". ------------------ Proud to stand up for my Profession
Dragons Demoness	Posted - 2008.03.07 21:39:00 - [40] As a runner and a salvager I for one wouldn't mind if someone asked before hand...like someone else said it would just let me get on to the next faster, I only need 6 or so items for my own rigs so the rest is just sold off at whatever price is highest at the station.
Polly Prissypantz	Posted - 2008.03.08 14:53:00 - [41] As low as these mission scanning salvagers are, I doubt CCP will do anything about it. My suggestion is the same as my suggestion to miners *****ing about ore thieves: GTFO of the busy systems where these leeches hang out. They'll always have some excuse to justify their poor choice of profession. Also an earlier post suggested flying a Marauder. Well worth it. =P
HandSoLow Minmatar 05 Tiamat Ancients	Posted - 2008.03.08 18:20:00 - [42] To be quiet honest... ...When I started playing, I mainly salvaged, then I PvE'd, then mined and now Im getting back into salvaging with my newly acquired exploration/scanning knowledge. My 'opinion' on salvaging wrecks that do not belong to you is: If this was real life and you where in space and came across a ship wreck, you would either: A) Phone some company to state the wreck is your to claim, then await the processing of your application to salvage it. Or B) You think to yourself, 'Im in the middle of nowhere in space and there is a wreck beside me that could possibly disappear any sec..quick salvage it'!. First there, First served. Salvagers should only be flagged if the mission runners ship is within viewing distance of the salvager, and that the mission runner "see's" the salvager stealing the wreck. Why you ask? Because if someone in real life salvaged a ship and noone seen him, how on Earth would you know who salvaged it? [Thus the flagging]...Salvager's should only be flagged if they are seen salvaging by the owner of the wreck because it makes no sense otherwise as their is no evidence against the salvager. - Quick Chewy, pass me the quaffe!
Commander OTG Caldari Logistic Exposium Industries	Posted - 2008.03.08 18:31:00 - [43] This would be a great time for CCP to introduce those salvaging drones thats been eluded to. Originally by: GM Faolchu It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
WardogX Minmatar Outkasts	Posted - 2008.03.08 23:32:00 - [44] I read in upcoming patch notes under salvaging they had some changes being made: "All NPC wrecks in missions will now belong to the character who accepted the mission, no matter who killed the NPC." Does this mean mission wrecks will now be flaggable to everyone who isn the mission owner? Link Here: http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp
Commander OTG Caldari Logistic Exposium Industries	Posted - 2008.03.09 04:26:00 - [45] Some missioneers alts will be flashing red if thats the case. Originally by: GM Faolchu It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
Taguchi Hiroko Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.09 13:28:00 - [46] I think it's a matter of privacy. ppl doing missions wanna be left alone and don't wanna see some guy on his overview flying around him. Not so much about the wrecks themselves, although some do salvage them after the missions (I do). most ninja salvagers are griefers, kinda like ore theives. I warp off when I see them and let the rats pop em. If they flag, I come back in a recon or a destroyer with sensor booster and pop em. If all else fails, I pop all my wrecks and see if they wanna ** with me some more. So far it's working, they ** off my missions.
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.03.09 17:12:00 - [47] If you want to be off in your own little bubble, then don't play EVE. Simple as that. Rats don't lock small salvaging ships fast enough to pop them. Popping wrecks means you lose income too. Can't speak for others, but I -usually- leave them alone if they start popping wrecks, as it shows determination. However, this usually accompanies an angry EVE-mail or convo. If one of them starts being an asshat, it's back to the mission I go to ensure they don't get any of their wrecks
Myshella Drake Caldari Ward-Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.03.09 18:35:00 - [48] Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko I think it's a matter of privacy. ppl doing missions wanna be left alone and don't wanna see some guy on his overview flying around him. Those people need to get with the program...Nothing in EVE is instanced ------------------ Proud to stand up for my Profession
Ava Santiago	Posted - 2008.03.09 18:40:00 - [49] Umm.. If salvaging is the fastest way to increase profits from missions... why don't more missioners take a salvaging buddy with them? A battleship with 2 guns, 3 tractors, and 3 salvagers will quickly clear the field of any wrecks. The additional profit from the salvage/drops should offset the split of the LP's, reward, and bounties. Miners typically need hauler alts - mission runners could get salvager alts and have enough of a head start on the people scanning for missions that the profit for salvaging other missions would vanish. In other words, mission runners are not creating high enough barriers to entry to deter this kind of activity.
Commander OTG Caldari Logistic Exposium Industries	Posted - 2008.03.09 21:15:00 - [50] Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko I think it's a matter of privacy. ppl doing missions wanna be left alone and don't wanna see some guy on his overview flying around him. Not so much about the wrecks themselves, although some do salvage them after the missions (I do). most ninja salvagers are griefers, kinda like ore theives. I warp off when I see them and let the rats pop em. If they flag, I come back in a recon or a destroyer with sensor booster and pop em. If all else fails, I pop all my wrecks and see if they wanna ** with me some more. So far it's working, they off my missions. I have to say that that no one is directly targeting you. As a high level prober, I can assure you that a salvager is not able to confirm who the mission runner is until they have arrived at the probed destination. Destroying your wrecks will likely not prevent them from probing you out at a later date and attempting it again. I am having great results with offering the mission runners portion of the salvage. I do wait until they have completed their missions before I attempt any intrusion. Quote: Originally by: GM Faolchu** It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
Fche	Posted - 2008.03.10 14:43:00 - [51] Hello, first i'm mission runner and also salvage thief from time to time. Currently when make some mission i've ask @ local for salvagers if there is no one, loot is left for "space thiefs". When i'm bored of missions going for some low sec pvp or most cases going into player missions and ask them about salvage not loot if there no response look his corp / ally if they are still @ NPC i'm starting to salvage! but if they are in some corp you can get war dec. and then real fun begun. Salvage is space junk for me but priceless for traders. Thats my code of ethics.
Flesan	Posted - 2008.03.10 15:49:00 - [52] my 2 pence worth loot from a kill is considered stealing because it is considered valuable. Salvaging now makes the wreak itself valuable, sometimes more than the loot itself. so i feel that if you made the wreak you should be able to claim it for yourself. my suggestion is to make an option for the person making a killing blow to be able to tag a wreck as theres, perhaps though a radial/rightclick option or even though a new modual. this would then make salvaging or looting the wreak theft. this i hope would not have a drastic impact on those who want to make a living from salvaging (which i have no problem with) as there are often times when i dont want to salvage and i know mission runners who never do, while those who wish to can take full advantage of the salvage they have created. i also except that things are not going to change, but thought i ort to put forward my veiw.
Commander OTG Caldari Logistic Exposium Industries	Posted - 2008.03.10 17:22:00 - [53] From the looks of the upcoming patch notes, I am convinced that things are in fact going to change. I think the statement that I have as my signature was made under duress. An immediate answer needed to be given to stop the smacking back and forth between slvagers and mission runners. But it appears that they are going to create some method for the missioners to claim their wrecks. Should be interesting. Often, pirates attempt to contract me to probe out certain ship types in dead space. With salvage suddenly being so valuable, i see these pirates trying to appear as salvagers in order to get aggro... Quote: Originally by: GM Faolchu It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
Yogo Hong	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:54:00 - [54] If mission runners want to be left alone, then I "demand" that the mission cannot be completed unless there are no wrecks in the mission area. I am tired of finding mission runners who just leave their wreckages. Although I profit from it, I see it as an unnecessary load upon the servers.
Stazzmo Gallente The Grind	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:38:00 - [55] Edited by: Stazzmo on 10/03/2008 21:38:44 I can't believe CCP will see any reason for runners to claim their wrecks. If they do, then I hope they're smart enough to put some loopholes in the system. For example, if someone leaves 20 or so battleship wrecks floating in space, turns in the mission and logs out, then those wrecks should be fair game. Just like if someone probed out a salvaging exploration site, as those wrecks are fair game too. And i really see no difference between the two. If wrecks are claimed by the runner, there must be a way to "unclaim" them too. I dream of electric sheep.
Sigul Siento	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:40:00 - [56] Originally by: Flesan my 2 pence worth loot from a kill is considered stealing because it is considered valuable. Salvaging now makes the wreak itself valuable, sometimes more than the loot itself. so i feel that if you made the wreak you should be able to claim it for yourself. my suggestion is to make an option for the person making a killing blow to be able to tag a wreck as theres, perhaps though a radial/rightclick option or even though a new modual. this would then make salvaging or looting the wreak theft. this i hope would not have a drastic impact on those who want to make a living from salvaging (which i have no problem with) as there are often times when i dont want to salvage and i know mission runners who never do, while those who wish to can take full advantage of the salvage they have created. i also except that things are not going to change, but thought i ort to put forward my veiw. The same effect can be achieved in the game of today, if only the missioner could be bothered to salvage the wreck, and not wait an hour and expect it to still be untouched. Where are those patch notes describing a change, by the way? I can't find the above quoted paragraph anywhere in the patch notes.
Commander OTG Logistic Exposium Industries	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:55:00 - [57] Here is another link to the patch notes. Go down to the section describing missions and such Linkage Quote: Originally by: GM Faolchu It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
Jitabug	Posted - 2008.03.10 23:58:00 - [58] This problem has already been addressed. Marauder class battleships. If you don't want to use them, fine. No one is forced to use transport ships in low sec, but I don't see any sympathy for a trader who loses a hauler full of cargo to a sniper. Why do mission running carebears deserve more sympathy because they don't choose to use their equivalent T2 ship?
Commander OTG Logistic Exposium Industries	Posted - 2008.03.11 15:34:00 - [59] I hardly see the new ships as a solution for the low level mission runners; those just starting out. They could not afford such a cost early in thier careers. If this was really the intention then the salvagers would be inclined to take from the newest members of Eve. We may lose alot of new players that view this as greifing and decide to leave. Im not sure how you view this happening, but my opinion is the more people playing the better the game gets both within the Universe (more people to interact with) and out of it (more income me bigger and better expansions in a shorter time) As a person that salvages 4-5 hours per day on average, I am certainly crossing my fingers that salvaging doesn't get effected negatively. I would, however, like to see a bit of balance for the players. I sat 4 jumps away from a trading hub last night in an itty 5 and in the matter of 20 minutes was probed out by 4 herons and a buzzard. Quote: Originally by: GM Faolchu It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.11 15:51:00 - [60] If you'd offer 50/50, I'd take that offer without a problem, that's a fair deal as I don't have to spend time on it myself. If you're some dork that just pops in shouting lololol and starts salvaging the stuff as if it's theirs, then I pop the wrecks.

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