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Commander OTG
Caldari
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.04 06:12:00 -
[1]
Nearly a year ago i was sitting here reading dev blogs and member speculation and it donned on me the possible future of salvaging. I took a guess at hte skills that may be used for it and I began training them non-stop.
I spent nearly six months maxxing out all skills pertaining to probing, hacking, salvaging and covert ops in order to make exploring and salvaging my main profession
I have invested 100's of millions in riggs, implants and ships that I may do it better and faster.
I have developed a code of ethics when it comes to this new profession. I seek out wrecks and missions and when I find then I contact the person/s responsible for creating the wreck and ask if they intend on salvaging them themselves. I offer 50% of the salvage as a finders fee. If the person does not respond to my request I merely salvage it and move on.
With all this hard work and investment, I hear rumblings from mission runners making claim that the wrecks are thiers and they should have sole rights to them. That they would sooner blow them up then to let someone else get to them. Runners stating that CCP best change the situation or there with be horrible backlash.
Developers have repeatedly claimed that Eve is a cruel environment. And with all the whining and crying it may end up harsh for the legitimate salvagers.
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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WardogX
Minmatar
Outkasts
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Posted - 2008.03.04 07:15:00 -
[2]
I wouldn't worry about it... ccp went on record about their intent.
Even if they decide to go back on their word it will take time. I remeber people used to scream about can thieves. It took years for them to make can stealing flaggable.. and people begged for can flagging then too and it still didn't happen for a long time.
Even if CCP goes back on their last statement and makes wreck salvaging flaggable its still no big deal. If the player is there at the salaving site... don't take the wrecks just jump out and if no one is there take their wrecks and if they jump in ... you can jump out. I wouldn't keep your code of ethics though if that flaggable salvaging happens. If you ask someone to salvage and they say yes.. they could come back ready to gank you since you will be flagged. You activities of a salvage profession just has to become more "pirate" like.
Also, exploration skills and salvaging skills will not go to waste regardless of what happens. I have an extremely well trained explorer alt and I find plenty of ways to earn money on him without looking for wrecks. Also, exploration is a growing popular trade in eve.. it has become more then a quasi niche. I think you will see ccp adds tons more exploration stuff in even in coming years.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.03.04 16:26:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
With all this hard work and investment, I hear rumblings from mission runners making claim that the wrecks are thiers and they should have sole rights to them.
Mission runners are whiners, ignore them.
Quote:
That they would sooner blow them up then to let someone else get to them
Ah well, that's fair.
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AvatarOfHope
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Posted - 2008.03.04 16:57:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Commander OTG
I have developed a code of ethics when it comes to this new profession. I seek out wrecks and missions and when I find then I contact the person/s responsible for creating the wreck and ask if they intend on salvaging them themselves. I offer 50% of the salvage as a finders fee.
there should be more people like you out there...
♥
Every night in my dreams
I see you, I feel you,
That is how I know you go on... |
Wahjoo
Minmatar
Freedom From Fear
Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2008.03.04 17:41:00 -
[5]
Where that every salvager were like you, I don't think there would be a problem. People have problems with people who show up, don't even direct a word twards you and then start salvaging everything in sight.
One particular one stands out for me who kept salvaging the wrecks that I was approaching in order to loot, causing me to have to target them again. With this particular twerp, I did start blowing up my wrecks.
I'm an avid salvager myself, but the bulk of what I salvage is from my own missions. But even so, if someone like you showed up and asked me to salvage my stuff and give me a finder's fee, I would totally go for it. It would save me the trouble of having to go back to the station, picking up my own salvaging ship and clearing out the place.
"We were once so close to heaven; Peter came out and gave us medals, declaring us the nicest of the damned." |
Myshella Drake
Caldari
Eishie
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Posted - 2008.03.04 18:08:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Commander OTG
Nearly a year ago i was sitting here reading dev blogs and member speculation and it donned on me the possible future of salvaging. I took a guess at hte skills that may be used for it and I began training them non-stop.
I spent nearly six months maxxing out all skills pertaining to probing, hacking, salvaging and covert ops in order to make exploring and salvaging my main profession
I have invested 100's of millions in riggs, implants and ships that I may do it better and faster.
I have developed a code of ethics when it comes to this new profession. I seek out wrecks and missions and when I find then I contact the person/s responsible for creating the wreck and ask if they intend on salvaging them themselves. I offer 50% of the salvage as a finders fee. If the person does not respond to my request I merely salvage it and move on.
With all this hard work and investment, I hear rumblings from mission runners making claim that the wrecks are thiers and they should have sole rights to them. That they would sooner blow them up then to let someone else get to them. Runners stating that CCP best change the situation or there with be horrible backlash.
Developers have repeatedly claimed that Eve is a cruel environment. And with all the whining and crying it may end up harsh for the legitimate salvagers.
I understand this completely. I operate in a very similar fashion, i think i made a big rant about it in another thread lol. Most of the stuff i salvage is abandoned so i don't offer the 50% you do, also cus im a cheap bastard  . And like you i am extremly tired, to put it nicely, with all the crap i have to put up with from whining mission runners. Its a shame really, for the few of us out there trying to do it legit and with respect, we are seen no differently from an ore theif or a pirate.
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Proud to stand up for my Profession
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.03.04 23:16:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Myshella Drake
Its a shame really, for the few of us out there trying to do it legit and with respect, we are seen no differently from an ore theif or a pirate.
There is no way to illegitimely salvage wrecks, so all who do it do it legit.
However, if one wanted to reduce the risk of competition for salvage, wrecks need to be scannable in some fashion. There is an awful lot of abandoned wrecks out there. This is evident from all the times I have popped into a mission, made a BM, and returned later to find heaps of wrecks, which would be impossible to find but for my bookmark. It irks to know that close nearby is probably other "rooms" of unsalvaged wrecks.
Though with scannable wrecks missioning in low sec would be quite a bit harder, and even if a satisfactory solution was foundh, the easier access to wrecks might lead to more people salvaging, not reducing competition afterall. Hard to say.
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syphurous
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.04 23:25:00 -
[8]
If someone smacks or even tries to suicide you, just give them this little Motivaton to brighten their day.
Originally by: GM Faolchu
People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente
The Graduates
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.03.04 23:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Wahjoo
Where that every salvager were like you, I don't think there would be a problem. People have problems with people who show up, don't even direct a word twards you and then start salvaging everything in sight.
Do you have something interesting to say? If not, why bother to stop and chat with you? There's a field of wrecks to salvage.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then. -- |
notaway
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.05 04:15:00 -
[10]
Now I don't go as far as u when salvaging---I don't ask permission typically when salvaging belt wrecks BUT I don't scan out mission runners and salvage their wrecks... I would also note that salvaging wrecks was flaggable pre Revelations---ccp did away with that which made me happy but who knows if they will come up with restrictions now that ppl r salvaging mission wrecks...I don't do missions in busy areas and so have not come across salvagers trying to get to my mission wrecks...
U forgot to mention archeology, astronautic triangulation and astronautic pinpointing which are also necessary skills for exploration...
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Commander OTG
Caldari
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.05 07:57:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Commander OTG on 05/03/2008 08:05:15
I did mention that I maxxed the skills pertaining to probing, hacking, salvaging and covert ops....those would include the ones you are pointing out also
To be specific, i have the following...
Cloaking 5
Covert Ops 5
Signature analysis 5
Survey 5
Salvaging 5
Archaeology 5
Astrometric Pinpointing 5
Astrometric Triangulation 5
Astrometrics 5
Hacking 5
Signal Acquisition 5
Cybernetics 5
I run full set of prospector implants and T2 rigs
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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Mostlikely
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Posted - 2008.03.05 08:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sigul Siento
However, if one wanted to reduce the risk of competition for salvage, wrecks need to be scannable in some fashion. There is an awful lot of abandoned wrecks out there. This is evident from all the times I have popped into a mission, made a BM, and returned later to find heaps of wrecks, which would be impossible to find but for my bookmark. It irks to know that close nearby is probably other "rooms" of unsalvaged wrecks.
Wouldn't it be an idea to make wrecks fully scannable once they are no longer linked to an active mission. Combine this with a despawn timer refresh (2 extra hours) once the mission despawns and there will be enough salavage to go around.
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.03.05 10:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: notaway
I would also note that salvaging wrecks was flaggable pre Revelations---ccp did away with that which made me happy but who knows if they will come up with restrictions now that ppl r salvaging mission wrecks...
I'm a new player, but from what I read about this I got the impression that what happened was that salvaging automatically tranferred the loot as well, and flagged you as a result of that. if so, salvaging didn't flag you, it was just a sideeffect.
Originally by: Mostlikely
Wouldn't it be an idea to make wrecks fully scannable once they are no longer linked to an active mission. Combine this with a despawn timer refresh (2 extra hours) once the mission despawns and there will be enough salavage to go around.
Now this is pure brilliance. Simple and effective. Though a despawn timer refresh sounds a bit odd, maybe just increase it to 3 hours total?
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notaway
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.05 15:29:00 -
[14]
Sigul--no--when I started out in jan 2007, if one salvaged a wreck that was looted or unlooted that u or ur player corp did not shoot then u got flagged and ur were fair game to the party that shot the rat. I was so happy when I saw the patch that changed that. With the change, one could salvage ne wreck and if there was loot in it, that loot would drop in the form of a can when the wreck was salvaged. ONE can still not take that loot without being flagged
Commander---I guess all u need now is the ability to mine and process ice as then u could make ur own probes with the appropriate bpo's.
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Wahjoo
Minmatar
Freedom From Fear
Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2008.03.05 17:37:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Originally by: Wahjoo
Where that every salvager were like you, I don't think there would be a problem. People have problems with people who show up, don't even direct a word twards you and then start salvaging everything in sight.
Do you have something interesting to say? If not, why bother to stop and chat with you? There's a field of wrecks to salvage.
If you pop into my mission and start salvaging the wrecks I made, you're damn right you should say something, as an ask if it's ok to salvage.
If you don't...field? what field? You mean all that stuff that was up there before I blew it all up?
And as for being able to probe wrecks, that would be like trying to put out fire with gasoline. Unless you could only probe wrecks after mission was completed.
"We were once so close to heaven; Peter came out and gave us medals, declaring us the nicest of the damned." |
syphurous
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.05 21:21:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Wahjoo
If you pop into my mission and start salvaging the wrecks I made, you're damn right you should say something, as an ask if it's ok to salvage.
Why, its not yours, its who ever salvages it first, so stop trolling, and deal with.
Originally by: GM Faolchu
People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong.
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Oldin Kinrod
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Posted - 2008.03.05 22:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Wahjoo
And as for being able to probe wrecks, that would be like trying to put out fire with gasoline. Unless you could only probe wrecks after mission was completed.
Chances are, if this feature was to be added it would follow the same deadspace penalty as everything else. Just because something is in deadspace doesn't mean it shouldn't be able to be found.
People stealing your wrecks? Players intruding your missions? |
Commander OTG
Caldari
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.05 23:43:00 -
[18]
As memory serves me.....salvaging never created a flagging...it was looting the wreck, which could not be done without first removing the loot from it. The patch resolved this issue by allowing a person to salvage the wreck without touching the loot.
Someone mentioned above regarding manufacturing probes and mining and such.....yes I do this as well..lol
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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rocksolid
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Posted - 2008.03.06 10:03:00 -
[19]
Edited by: rocksolid on 06/03/2008 10:03:31
[blank]
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Mostlikely
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Posted - 2008.03.06 10:04:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sigul Siento
Originally by: Mostlikely
Wouldn't it be an idea to make wrecks fully scannable once they are no longer linked to an active mission. Combine this with a despawn timer refresh (2 extra hours) once the mission despawns and there will be enough salavage to go around.
Now this is pure brilliance. Simple and effective. Though a despawn timer refresh sounds a bit odd, maybe just increase it to 3 hours total?
The despawn time extention is a minor detail ofcourse...
But imagine you stumble across a bunch of wrecks that is about to despawn.
With a 3 hour despawn after kill you could be heading to wrecks only to find them depsawn just as you get close, multiple times.
With a 2 hour despawn after mission complete the entire group of wrecks despawns at once letting you know it is time to scan again.
I can imagine the second scenario being a litle less fustrating. But again it would be a minor detail.
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Komisarzzawada
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.03.06 10:28:00 -
[21]
A question. If a ninjasalvager comes to my mission and steals my loot i can shoot him without concord showing up and blowing my shipz0r?
No problem with someone salvaging my wrecs without my permission, wreck is like garbage, it dont mind if someone take s the thrash out for me once in a while.
________________
piwates? zomg. |
Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.03.06 12:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mostlikely
The despawn time extention is a minor detail ofcourse...
But imagine you stumble across a bunch of wrecks that is about to despawn.
With a 3 hour despawn after kill you could be heading to wrecks only to find them depsawn just as you get close, multiple times.
With a 2 hour despawn after mission complete the entire group of wrecks despawns at once letting you know it is time to scan again.
I can imagine the second scenario being a litle less fustrating. But again it would be a minor detail.
Good point. But you could still come upon a huge field of amarr navy battleship wrecks, and just as you start grinning they ALL go pop in front of you 
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Jali Prince
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.03.06 13:19:00 -
[23]
I seriously hope they DO NOT ever make salvaging flaggable!
I spent the first 3 months of my new corp life running round after the corp picking and salvaging the crap they left about. And some that was not theirs. And i made lots of iskies out of it.
If i am on a mission, I like to salvage all of my gear, takes me twice as long to do a mission, but when I build a new rig. well worth the extra time!
Life is chocolate |
cetus bookies
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Posted - 2008.03.06 18:07:00 -
[24]
I run alot of missions as i play at work for 12 hours a day and admittedly i have only ever come across this since doing lvl4s. I have now done about 30 missions and only once have i had someone appear and start salvaging my wrecks, so either i have been very lucky or it just doesnt happen often. Its sort of annoying but i dont really mind so long as the loot especially mission specific stuff is left alone heh go for it lets me move onto the next mission quicker and earn another 20mil in bounty.
If you are really that bothered leave a rat behind to aggro if someone turns up warpout.
P.S. How do concord get into the deadspace area without going through a gate? How much time would you really have to avoid concord for if you blew em up?
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Arkedon
Caldari
Pegasus Knights
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Posted - 2008.03.06 18:41:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Arkedon on 06/03/2008 18:41:57
Originally by: Komisarzzawada
A question. If a ninjasalvager comes to my mission and steals my loot i can shoot him without concord showing up and blowing my shipz0r?
No problem with someone salvaging my wrecs without my permission, wreck is like garbage, it dont mind if someone take s the thrash out for me once in a while.
Stealing from someone's container (including loot container) gets you aggression flagged. Salvaging will not though, as long as you dont open the loot can.
The owner can shoot the thief without CONCORD intervention.
However, if you shoot them they have the right to defend themselves and shoot back. If they have bigger guns than you, then you should think twice about attacking.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.03.06 19:06:00 -
[26]
the problem is most people don't have a code of ethics and enter missions where the players intended on salvaging.
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Officer Sage
Minmatar
Insidious Existence
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Posted - 2008.03.06 19:51:00 -
[27]
As far as room salvage goes, I tend to do missions with corp mates that don't 'waste time' with salvage so they leave it all for me. I have no interest in breaking into someone's mission to 'steal' their salvage. I tend to have more than enough stuff going on to keep me busy that I don't have to do that.
But it does sound more interesting than can flipping. lol 
~/ I am a SIG VIRUS and can not spread on my own. Please copy/paste me into your sig so I can spread. \~ |
Stazzmo
Gallente
The Grind
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Posted - 2008.03.06 21:15:00 -
[28]
Your choice of profession is exactly the type of career goals I want to work towards with my own character. I especially take note of your Code of Ethics, which i plan to adopt fully. It seems like a natural progression. I started running missions, made more money salvaging them, and now i'm getting into exploration/hacking (EVE is such a rich game experience). My home sector of space has a number of high level agents and i'm sure there are runners who leave millions of isk floating in space.
I'll also do this hoping that CCP sticks to their guns on their "wrecks as free game" position. I too am a bit worried that freelance salvagers like you and I will be given a bad name from the actions of a few leeches.
I guess i'm not saying much, its just heartening to see others in the same boat.
I dream of electric sheep. |
adrian barbobot
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Posted - 2008.03.06 22:08:00 -
[29]
mission runners... get a freaking marauder! problem solved. |
Xiano
Gallente
Xindustry
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Posted - 2008.03.06 22:34:00 -
[30]
*cough* Little Angel *cough*
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syphurous
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.06 22:55:00 -
[31]
Code Of Ethics ? WTF ? Its space junk, if I salvage it before anyone else, its mine.
Just because you precieve something as unethical does not mean it is.
Anyone has the right to salvage and you just need to let go that that little bit of trash has nothing to do with you until you salvage it.
Originally by: GM Faolchu
People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong.
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Commander OTG
Caldari
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.07 07:26:00 -
[32]
And there in lies the difference between us. While you perceive that the space trash belongs to the fastest ship. I choose to respect the work/effort that it took to create said wrecks.
If the mission runners chose to take a week off...most of the salvagers would starve. Few of you create your own wrecks.
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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CetusOfAsuran
Caldari
GHOSTS OF THE FIRST AND ONLY
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Posted - 2008.03.07 12:01:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Xiano
*cough* Little Angel *cough*
lol yes i knowe where you run missions if you come across this little annoyance
rollover bonus lotto |
Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.03.07 14:14:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Sigul Siento on 07/03/2008 14:14:27
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
the problem is most people don't have a code of ethics and enter missions where the players intended on salvaging.
Intended to do, but haven't done. If intent to do something should be enough to preclude others from doing it first, we get into "I intended to mine that roid/shoot that belt rat" as well. Waiting with the intended salvaging till the mission is done is a choice of convinience, me and the rest of the "unethical" salvagers provides some risk to that choice, making it a real choice instead of a no-brainer.
I have a code of ethics, along the lines of "Take what you can, give nothing back". 
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Dr Caligo
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Posted - 2008.03.07 15:43:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Commander OTG
Edited by: Commander OTG on 05/03/2008 08:05:15
I did mention that I maxxed the skills pertaining to probing, hacking, salvaging and covert ops....those would include the ones you are pointing out also
To be specific, i have the following...
Cloaking 5
Covert Ops 5
Signature analysis 5
Survey 5
Salvaging 5
Archaeology 5
Astrometric Pinpointing 5
Astrometric Triangulation 5
Astrometrics 5
Hacking 5
Signal Acquisition 5
Cybernetics 5
I run full set of prospector implants and T2 rigs
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Commander OTG
Caldari
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.07 16:32:00 -
[36]
There is no doubt that a change is coming. It has happened in the past with the Nano domi's, with the over powering NOS, with flagging can flippers.
There is a rallying force and it is snowballing as more and more salvagers are entering missions and making the mission runners aware that they are less safe then ever.
CCP has made a statement that salvaging is an intended mechanic, however I believe they are re-thinking their stance as they see the griefing that is going beyond mere salvaging. Mission specific items are being taken and either ransomed or worse yet, destroyed in retaliation for the runner destroying the wrecks.
Everyone has their opinion and I do not judge them for theirs. I merely see an oportunity for salvagers and mission runners to benefit from each others skills, rather then suffer "raod rage" as it were.
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.03.07 17:01:00 -
[37]
I don't know about that. My impression has been that the high point of outrage against salvaging mechanics peaked a few months ago, and that CCP has been more direct about this being what they were aiming for since before salvage was implemented with Kali.
I always find talking about the popularity or lack of popularity of game mechanics, and speculating on the pressure on CCP to change them, interesting, but basically very pointless and meta though. At least compared to making arguments about how something is good or bad for the game.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Commander OTG
Caldari
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.07 17:48:00 -
[38]
I will look into it more tonight. I recall a recent post by a Dev that they were looking into the issues. I can't provide a link now and I may absolutely be mistaking this for a member post, but I am fairly confidant that I am correct.
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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Myshella Drake
Caldari
Eishie
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Posted - 2008.03.07 19:55:00 -
[39]
I think the issue will dissolve over time to be honest. There will always be the odd whiner but i think mission runners will gradually begin to accept it and adapt their playing habits to coup. The problem is that they have gone too long in there own little bubble, now that bubble can be burst by some else and they are put right back into EVE instead of mission runners online.
Personally i think CCP will focus more on making other salvaging opportunities for salvagers rather than change the mechanic in any way. If they can attract salvagers to other more profitable venues besides missions then it will at the very least help the current so called "unfairness".
------------------
Proud to stand up for my Profession
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Dragons Demoness
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Posted - 2008.03.07 21:39:00 -
[40]
As a runner and a salvager I for one wouldn't mind if someone asked before hand...like someone else said it would just let me get on to the next faster, I only need 6 or so items for my own rigs so the rest is just sold off at whatever price is highest at the station.
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Polly Prissypantz
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Posted - 2008.03.08 14:53:00 -
[41]
As low as these mission scanning salvagers are, I doubt CCP will do anything about it.
My suggestion is the same as my suggestion to miners *****ing about ore thieves: GTFO of the busy systems where these leeches hang out. They'll always have some excuse to justify their poor choice of profession.
Also an earlier post suggested flying a Marauder. Well worth it. =P
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HandSoLow
Minmatar
05 Tiamat Ancients
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Posted - 2008.03.08 18:20:00 -
[42]
To be quiet honest...
...When I started playing, I mainly salvaged, then I PvE'd, then mined and now Im getting back into salvaging with my newly acquired exploration/scanning knowledge. My 'opinion' on salvaging wrecks that do not belong to you is:
If this was real life and you where in space and came across a ship wreck, you would either: A) Phone some company to state the wreck is your to claim, then await the processing of your application to salvage it. Or B) You think to yourself, 'Im in the middle of nowhere in space and there is a wreck beside me that could possibly disappear any sec..quick salvage it'!.
First there, First served. Salvagers should only be flagged if the mission runners ship is within viewing distance of the salvager, and that the mission runner "see's" the salvager stealing the wreck. Why you ask? Because if someone in real life salvaged a ship and noone seen him, how on Earth would you know who salvaged it? [Thus the flagging]...Salvager's should only be flagged if they are seen salvaging by the owner of the wreck because it makes no sense otherwise as their is no evidence against the salvager.
- Quick Chewy, pass me the quaffe! |
Commander OTG
Caldari
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.08 18:31:00 -
[43]
This would be a great time for CCP to introduce those salvaging drones thats been eluded to.
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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WardogX
Minmatar
Outkasts
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Posted - 2008.03.08 23:32:00 -
[44]
I read in upcoming patch notes under salvaging they had some changes being made:
"All NPC wrecks in missions will now belong to the character who accepted the mission, no matter who killed the NPC."
Does this mean mission wrecks will now be flaggable to everyone who isn the mission owner?
Link Here: http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp
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Commander OTG
Caldari
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.09 04:26:00 -
[45]
Some missioneers alts will be flashing red if thats the case.
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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Taguchi Hiroko
Deadly Addiction
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.03.09 13:28:00 -
[46]
I think it's a matter of privacy. ppl doing missions wanna be left alone and don't wanna see some guy on his overview flying around him. Not so much about the wrecks themselves, although some do salvage them after the missions (I do).
most ninja salvagers are griefers, kinda like ore theives. I warp off when I see them and let the rats pop em. If they flag, I come back in a recon or a destroyer with sensor booster and pop em. If all else fails, I pop all my wrecks and see if they wanna **** with me some more. So far it's working, they **** off my missions.
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Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2008.03.09 17:12:00 -
[47]
If you want to be off in your own little bubble, then don't play EVE. Simple as that.
Rats don't lock small salvaging ships fast enough to pop them. Popping wrecks means you lose income too.
Can't speak for others, but I -usually- leave them alone if they start popping wrecks, as it shows determination. However, this usually accompanies an angry EVE-mail or convo. If one of them starts being an asshat, it's back to the mission I go to ensure they don't get any of their wrecks
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Myshella Drake
Caldari
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.09 18:35:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko
I think it's a matter of privacy. ppl doing missions wanna be left alone and don't wanna see some guy on his overview flying around him.
Those people need to get with the program...Nothing in EVE is instanced
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Proud to stand up for my Profession
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Ava Santiago
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Posted - 2008.03.09 18:40:00 -
[49]
Umm..
If salvaging is the fastest way to increase profits from missions... why don't more missioners take a salvaging buddy with them?
A battleship with 2 guns, 3 tractors, and 3 salvagers will quickly clear the field of any wrecks. The additional profit from the salvage/drops should offset the split of the LP's, reward, and bounties.
Miners typically need hauler alts - mission runners could get salvager alts and have enough of a head start on the people scanning for missions that the profit for salvaging other missions would vanish.
In other words, mission runners are not creating high enough barriers to entry to deter this kind of activity.
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Commander OTG
Caldari
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.09 21:15:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko
I think it's a matter of privacy. ppl doing missions wanna be left alone and don't wanna see some guy on his overview flying around him. Not so much about the wrecks themselves, although some do salvage them after the missions (I do).
most ninja salvagers are griefers, kinda like ore theives. I warp off when I see them and let the rats pop em. If they flag, I come back in a recon or a destroyer with sensor booster and pop em. If all else fails, I pop all my wrecks and see if they wanna **** with me some more. So far it's working, they **** off my missions.
I have to say that that no one is directly targeting you. As a high level prober, I can assure you that a salvager is not able to confirm who the mission runner is until they have arrived at the probed destination. Destroying your wrecks will likely not prevent them from probing you out at a later date and attempting it again.
I am having great results with offering the mission runners portion of the salvage. I do wait until they have completed their missions before I attempt any intrusion.
Quote:
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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Fche
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Posted - 2008.03.10 14:43:00 -
[51]
Hello, first i'm mission runner and also salvage thief from time to time. Currently when make some mission i've ask @ local for salvagers if there is no one, loot is left for "space thiefs". When i'm bored of missions going for some low sec pvp or most cases going into player missions and ask them about salvage not loot if there no response look his corp / ally if they are still @ NPC i'm starting to salvage! but if they are in some corp you can get war dec. and then real fun begun. Salvage is space junk for me but priceless for traders. Thats my code of ethics.
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Flesan
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Posted - 2008.03.10 15:49:00 -
[52]
my 2 pence worth
loot from a kill is considered stealing because it is considered valuable. Salvaging now makes the wreak itself valuable, sometimes more than the loot itself. so i feel that if you made the wreak you should be able to claim it for yourself.
my suggestion is to make an option for the person making a killing blow to be able to tag a wreck as theres, perhaps though a radial/rightclick option or even though a new modual. this would then make salvaging or looting the wreak theft.
this i hope would not have a drastic impact on those who want to make a living from salvaging (which i have no problem with) as there are often times when i dont want to salvage and i know mission runners who never do, while those who wish to can take full advantage of the salvage they have created.
i also except that things are not going to change, but thought i ort to put forward my veiw.
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Commander OTG
Caldari
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.10 17:22:00 -
[53]
From the looks of the upcoming patch notes, I am convinced that things are in fact going to change. I think the statement that I have as my signature was made under duress. An immediate answer needed to be given to stop the smacking back and forth between slvagers and mission runners. But it appears that they are going to create some method for the missioners to claim their wrecks.
Should be interesting. Often, pirates attempt to contract me to probe out certain ship types in dead space. With salvage suddenly being so valuable, i see these pirates trying to appear as salvagers in order to get aggro...
Quote:
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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Yogo Hong
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Posted - 2008.03.10 19:54:00 -
[54]
If mission runners want to be left alone, then I "demand" that the mission cannot be completed unless there are no wrecks in the mission area. I am tired of finding mission runners who just leave their wreckages. Although I profit from it, I see it as an unnecessary load upon the servers.
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Stazzmo
Gallente
The Grind
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Posted - 2008.03.10 21:38:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Stazzmo on 10/03/2008 21:38:44
I can't believe CCP will see any reason for runners to claim their wrecks. If they do, then I hope they're smart enough to put some loopholes in the system.
For example, if someone leaves 20 or so battleship wrecks floating in space, turns in the mission and logs out, then those wrecks should be fair game. Just like if someone probed out a salvaging exploration site, as those wrecks are fair game too. And i really see no difference between the two.
If wrecks are claimed by the runner, there must be a way to "unclaim" them too.
I dream of electric sheep. |
Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.03.10 21:40:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Flesan
my 2 pence worth
loot from a kill is considered stealing because it is considered valuable. Salvaging now makes the wreak itself valuable, sometimes more than the loot itself. so i feel that if you made the wreak you should be able to claim it for yourself.
my suggestion is to make an option for the person making a killing blow to be able to tag a wreck as theres, perhaps though a radial/rightclick option or even though a new modual. this would then make salvaging or looting the wreak theft.
this i hope would not have a drastic impact on those who want to make a living from salvaging (which i have no problem with) as there are often times when i dont want to salvage and i know mission runners who never do, while those who wish to can take full advantage of the salvage they have created.
i also except that things are not going to change, but thought i ort to put forward my veiw.
The same effect can be achieved in the game of today, if only the missioner could be bothered to salvage the wreck, and not wait an hour and expect it to still be untouched.
Where are those patch notes describing a change, by the way? I can't find the above quoted paragraph anywhere in the patch notes.
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Commander OTG
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.10 22:55:00 -
[57]
Here is another link to the patch notes.
Go down to the section describing missions and such
Linkage
Quote:
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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Jitabug
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Posted - 2008.03.10 23:58:00 -
[58]
This problem has already been addressed.
Marauder class battleships.
If you don't want to use them, fine. No one is forced to use transport ships in low sec, but I don't see any sympathy for a trader who loses a hauler full of cargo to a sniper.
Why do mission running carebears deserve more sympathy because they don't choose to use their equivalent T2 ship?
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Commander OTG
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.11 15:34:00 -
[59]
I hardly see the new ships as a solution for the low level mission runners; those just starting out. They could not afford such a cost early in thier careers.
If this was really the intention then the salvagers would be inclined to take from the newest members of Eve. We may lose alot of new players that view this as greifing and decide to leave. Im not sure how you view this happening, but my opinion is the more people playing the better the game gets both within the Universe (more people to interact with) and out of it (more income me bigger and better expansions in a shorter time)
As a person that salvages 4-5 hours per day on average, I am certainly crossing my fingers that salvaging doesn't get effected negatively. I would, however, like to see a bit of balance for the players. I sat 4 jumps away from a trading hub last night in an itty 5 and in the matter of 20 minutes was probed out by 4 herons and a buzzard.
Quote:
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.03.11 15:51:00 -
[60]
If you'd offer 50/50, I'd take that offer without a problem, that's a fair deal as I don't have to spend time on it myself.
If you're some dork that just pops in shouting lololol and starts salvaging the stuff as if it's theirs, then I pop the wrecks.
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.03.11 17:14:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Commander OTG
I hardly see the new ships as a solution for the low level mission runners; those just starting out. They could not afford such a cost early in thier careers.
All ships that can fight can also fit a salvager module. This is indisputable. Then you can strive for getting to the ship that can use salvagers without effecting the DPS (presumeably, I can't use one myself), if you want to. If you don't want to loose DPS and refuse to salvage as you go, that is your choice. Emphasis on choice.
Once or twice I have seen people shoot up wrecks to prevent me from salvaging them. There are several flaws in the view that this is some sort of victory, foremost being that this won't prevent me from going somewhere else to salvage, and probe out the same person in the future. I don't care who it is, I do wide scans for anything that looks profitable. What DOES make me leave for pastures greener is people that actually manage to do the salvaging they intend to do as they progress. I respect that, and trying to compete isn't worth the effort.
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Jitabug
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Posted - 2008.03.12 00:56:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Commander OTG
I hardly see the new ships as a solution for the low level mission runners; those just starting out. They could not afford such a cost early in thier careers.
Newbie loot isn't worth stealing.
Most ships have a spare highslot. They are free to use it to salvage.
Not being able to afford the best ship for the job (mission carebearing) when you start is not a bad thing.
Giving people reasons to interact, be it in a positive or negative way, is a good thing in an MMO.
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Commander OTG
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Posted - 2008.03.13 16:01:00 -
[63]
With the cans and wrecks showing on scanner, will this make any impact to the mission runners now?
Im thinking it really doesnt help but rather allows Pirates to take note of your damage/resist type before coming out after you
Quote:
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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Tsanse Kinske
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Posted - 2008.03.13 16:18:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Commander OTG
With the cans and wrecks showing on scanner, will this make any impact to the mission runners now?
Im thinking it really doesnt help but rather allows Pirates to take note of your damage/resist type before coming out after you
Not that this thread is about piracy or ganks, but sure. And it will help them in cases where they end up dealing with NPC aggro. But most of the time if those factors are coming into play, it's going to be too late for a solo PvE ship to survive anyway.
Biggest thing for me is that it makes it more tedious to scan for probes. Nothing I'm not used to, but there it is.
It'll be great for people looking for salvage though.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
galathil eru
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Posted - 2008.03.14 04:06:00 -
[65]
TBH think 50% is a little harsh, if they aint gonna salvage it anyway then you should be offering more like 10 or 20%, after all this is how your earning your isk...
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Overseer Goth
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.16 00:21:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Overseer Goth on 16/03/2008 00:24:24
Its our corp policy to offer 50% of the salvage to mission runners to save them time and allow them to move on faster. It is rare that they ever ask for the 50% and just appreciate us asking.
I have noticed today that mission structures now drop loot that is still assigned to the original mission runner even though they were not involved in its destruction.
Commander OTG tends to contract loot and salvage percentages to the original owners if he was unable to reach them in game. This is NOT our policy.
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Aeo IV
Xomic OmniCorporation
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Posted - 2008.03.16 07:39:00 -
[67]
I think the OP should open a corp just for salvagers, if they haven't already.
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Hiden Agenda
Mala Fide Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.20 02:14:00 -
[68]
How do we get the site locations to you? what hours do you normally play?
A few of us would like you to salvage our sites for a mere 10% in appreciation for what you stand for.
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Myshella Drake
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.20 03:28:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Aeo IV
I think the OP should open a corp just for salvagers, if they haven't already.
I would sign up. Ever since i started experimenting with ninja salvaging a year ago ive been looking for a corp who had similar interests...I was thinking of making a chat channel too, if there inst one i missed already? It would give the growing salvager community a place to bounce ideas around and help uphold the moral code that many of us follow.
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Proud to stand up for my Profession
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Commander OTG
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:02:00 -
[70]
Not really a ninja salvager per say, at least in my understanding of the definition.
Currently our corp only has two members because our original goal was to run high sec research POS and it was essential to keep the standing up high enough to be able to anchor them. We also specialized in ice mining, refining and now of course jump freighters to get the needed feul to those that find themselves in desperate need of it (not giving away the buyers name)
For security purposes, we are not taking on new persons. We must be able to assure our customers a level of anonimity and prefer to keep the locations of our 0.0 moon mining and ship building POS under cover.
If an alliance were formed with a salvage theme, I would definately consider joining.
Quote:
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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Terail Zoqial
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Posted - 2008.03.21 22:15:00 -
[71]
I do many lvl 4 missions and tbh, i'd rather someone get rid of the salvage and save precious server resources, get something productive out of my waste rather than it just hang their in space unwanted.
Good for you space janitor, we need more peeps like you.
Srsly!
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Keraa
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Posted - 2008.03.21 23:50:00 -
[72]
I agree with OTG and CCP. I am new to EVE (2 1/2) months old. I salvage wrecks, not as hardcore profession as OTG but I do salvage my kills. Like OTG, I ask for permission and if they do not give it, I move on. It's not a big loss as I dont make my primary life as a salvager. If OTG called me as I was switching ships so I could loot and salvage me kills and he asked if he could, I would say yes, just leave the cargo containers, no prob.
Courtesy and respect go along way with me and I treat others like I would like to be treated. But as in Real Life, the EVE world can be just as cruel. The people complaining should be a little faster or do it while still in mission or have a buddy salvage as he goes.
Life isn't fair and neither is EVE.
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Occamed
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.22 14:42:00 -
[73]
So after the all the wailing and tears... are we saying it's not fair?
Code of ethics lol! wtf has that got to do with anything, you ask-they say no? who's gonna pay for your probes? Begging should not be encouraged, most players I ask say 'go kill your own and salvage them'... loosely tanslated meaning help yourself, I think? 
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Commander OTG
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.25 23:29:00 -
[74]
Whos going to pay for my probes??
In real life I am a contactor. I dont expect my customers to pay me for the advertisement i published in order to get their business. It is a cost of doing business.
If you are probing and find no results do you give up probing because those were not paid for by another party? of course not.
I am overly sick of whining salvagers and overly emotional mission runners. I play the game like i live real life. I have respect for those i come across and wish to be treated the same way. I can guarantee that my attitude and outlook gets me more salvage then those that merely attempt to take it with no concern or appreciation for those that created it...not to mention i get the luxury of tractor beaming the wrecks...
Quote:
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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Hiden Agenda
Mala Fide Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.26 19:52:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Hiden Agenda on 26/03/2008 19:54:06
Code of ethics can be good in a game like this. I doubt the majority would ever swing that way, but to find a diamond in the rough is a good thing once in a while
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Hiden Agenda
Mala Fide Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.26 19:53:00 -
[76]
If you guys decide to create an alliance then let me know. We want in on it.
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Commander OTG
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:41:00 -
[77]
How goes it Hiden?
We are contemplating an alliance. We have gotten an overwhelming response so far and are looking into the impact of our side business.
Quote:
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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Arazel Chainfire
KDM Corp
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.03.28 02:36:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Commander OTG
How goes it Hiden?
We are contemplating an alliance. We have gotten an overwhelming response so far and are looking into the impact of our side business.
Just a question for you:
As a mission runner, i usually don't salvage/loot because I'm lazy. However, some members of my alliance get really annoyed with salvagers jumping in. Wouldn't you have to worry about people like the second deciding to war-dec you in your alliance if your alliance was dedicated to salvaging?
Personally, as long as you don't try salvaging while I'm still running, I really don't care. Just stay out of my mission while I don't have aggro yet - i don't want to have to worry about some stupid idiot coming in and causing mission aggro forcing me to warp out.
-Arazel
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.
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Roche Pso
Deltole Research Labs
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Posted - 2008.03.28 08:30:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Commander OTG
In real life I am a contactor. I dont expect my customers to pay me for the advertisement i published in order to get their business. It is a cost of doing business.
So you dont cover your cost of business with the rate you charge customers? I find that very strange.
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Commander OTG
Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.28 12:26:00 -
[80]
I haven't been dec'd up to this point, nor even threatened. In all honesty, 98% of the mission runners I encounter are in NPC corps preventing a war dec.
As far as my cost in expenses being passed on to customers in my real life business..the majority of my business is repeat business and I honor the pricing structure that I have maintained over the years other then the increase in material costs. I also may choose to take time off on a whim to go fishing or late night exploring...etc and I wouldn't feel its fair to raise my standard price to the next customer to make up for it.
If I do something outside the scope of a customers project, I draw that expense from my own profit and not add it to the customers bill...just how I personally do business.
Quote:
Originally by: GM Faolchu
It is within the rules of the game for someone to enter your mission and steal the loot/salvage.
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Dravius Luxor
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.28 13:37:00 -
[81]
I love these threads, I really do!
All the emotions!
It's really quite simple, the way I see it.
If you run missions for the Caldari Navy, and execute my brethren and allies for the rewards of cash and LP's, you are my sworn enemy.
I am obliged to do anything I can to hinder, or to frustrate you.
If I can get rich in the process, I'd be a fool not to do it!
See you in deadspace...
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