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Vorax	Posted - 2004.04.07 01:14:00 - [1] I was just killed by a player while at doing a mission at a spawn site from a bookmark. I heard before that this was not allowed. First, is this still the case? Second is there any hope that CCP will rememburse my stuff? I told the guy that what he was doing was bannable before I was killed, he didn't care and just continued. I saved the log of it. The guys name was Fugazil, a member of Care Bear Exterminators corp. His bio looked like the ramblings of 8 year old on to much Ritalin. If this is legal in the game then I am quitting. I am quite willing to be killed by players when I have a chance of defending myself, but this guy is counting on his victims not being able to or even being ready for a fight. Being killed like that is stupid. If I go into a .4 or lower to mine or pirate hunt in roids, I expect to have to deal with players and I prepare for it. But going to a mission spawn and having someone attack you while you are attacking pirates is a waste of my time and not a game I am willing to play. I hope CCP reads this and puts a foot down on this BS.
jamesw	Posted - 2004.04.07 01:17:00 - [2] Not sure if it is legal or not. Was the spawn location one of the completely "random" ones in the middle of nowhere, or was it at a POI (point of interest) such as a pirate mining station or similar?? When I am agent running I tend to just stick with agents in higher sec systems - that way I dont get sent to 0.4. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia Originally by: RollinDutchMasters I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
Arciadian	Posted - 2004.04.07 01:19:00 - [3] Edited by: Arciadian on 07/04/2004 01:20:53 opps wrong post
Vorax	Posted - 2004.04.07 01:21:00 - [4] It was one out in the middle of space I think but I don't know for sure. I also do mission in high sec but this one sent me to a .4 It was a level 3 mission. I still have the bookmark but obviosly I am not going back.
jamesw	Posted - 2004.04.07 01:25:00 - [5] This thread should probably head itself over to the missions forum, but anyhow... I remember seeing some posts about how agents will not send you to a system drastically different to their systems sec level. The agent (lvl 3) I use is in an 0.8 system, and has not sent me below 0.5 ever (I dont think he has even sent me as low as 0.5!). "Legal" or not, people will still kill agent runners in 0.4 systems. The best way to aviod this is to get a new agent. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia Originally by: RollinDutchMasters I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
Darrin Tobruk	Posted - 2004.04.07 01:30:00 - [6] If it was in Aunenen, then I know exactly where this bookmark is. Sounds like Fugazii is up to his old tricks. He nailed one of my corpmates there a while back. Think I'll drop by and say 'hello' sometime... _______________________________________________ Eris Discordia: On the scale of funny and constructive it scores low, real low.
Haratu	Posted - 2004.04.07 01:31:00 - [7] tough luck... pirates appear everywhere, next time it might be wise to check the local channel to see if there are potential pirates around. it would also be wise to warp in at a further distance. I roleplay... there is this computer game called "Earth - The First Genesis" where i play a character in the early 21st century.
Vorax	Posted - 2004.04.07 01:37:00 - [8] Yes it was in Annuen and was Fugazii. I warped in at 60 km, then he left making it look like he just finished doing the mission himself about a minute later after I was heavily engaged with the mission pirates he jumps in and scrambles me, jams me and nukes the hell out of me. Does anyone know if this is considered an exploit and is not allowed for sure? As I said, I saw it posted before that it wasn't allowed, but I want confirmation.
Ulendar	Posted - 2004.04.07 01:56:00 - [9] I dont get the point... Why would killing someone in low security space be a bannable offence?? What am i missing here? To me it sounds like your whining about getting killed in a low security system somewhere where you did not expect to be killed... The thing about being killed is..you most likely will not expect it as you would otherwise just avoid it. I'm sry you think this is a good enough reason to just quit. But somehow i dont think it matters. Personally i dont see this any different as being killed in a belt or at a jumpgate so fact of the matter is... you would have gotten killed sooner or later and at that point quit anyways... So it doesnt matter if you actually get your stuff back now (which i highly doubt). Originally by: cashman It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this. It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
Ronyo Dae'Loki	Posted - 2004.04.07 01:57:00 - [10] Last I heard, camping a mission point was an exploit. You need to petition it. To those who don't understand: he's not complaining about being killed, he's complaining that someone ganked him at the mission bookmark while he was doing the mission. IIRC, this is considered an exploit. ------------- My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants. I <3 ( . Y . )
Imperishable	Posted - 2004.04.07 02:06:00 - [11] I think the problem is that this carebearing of the game every patch is starting to breed a new kind of mentality - that empire space is supposed to be completely safe from players and the only PvP is consensual. Because the risks are low, people start to neglect them completely and then get big surprise when something wrong happens. If there was much more flexible PvP system, then everyone would get used to checking local and be ready to fight or flight. There would be much less unexpected deaths cause everyone would know they are supposed to be on their toes. But it's too late. Now that we are on the path of carebearing the game to death, breeding this mentality in players, when anything bad happens, it'll cause stronger whining each time, which in turn cases more carebear patches... the vicious cycle haha ok, I'm also whining, but for same reason as other people - it's the carebear patches!
Ranger Rikk	Posted - 2004.04.07 02:24:00 - [12] If I want to fight pirates players, I'll go looking for them in the lower zones, guns ablaze and ready to die...but if pirates are going to camp mission points it really takes the fun out of doing missions. Whoever has the biggest ship or best group of friends is effectivly going to control the point, and ruin that agents missions. Everyone using that agent will eventually get that mission, and probably die since the campers are going to know what level the missions are. They'll camp a lvl 2 with a high end crusier, and lvl 3 with a BS, and a 4 with a couple friends. This is either an expoit, or a quick way for CCP to loose a lot of accounts once camping begins. I will also quit Eve if I find I can't complete missions to get the money I need to train the skills to move forward.
Carla Stormwind	Posted - 2004.04.07 02:39:00 - [13] Quote: I think the problem is that this carebearing of the game every patch is starting to breed a new kind of mentality - that empire space is supposed to be completely safe from players and the only PvP is consensual. Because the risks are low, people start to neglect them completely and then get big surprise when something wrong happens. If there was much more flexible PvP system, then everyone would get used to checking local and be ready to fight or flight. There would be much less unexpected deaths cause everyone would know they are supposed to be on their toes. But it's too late. Now that we are on the path of carebearing the game to death, breeding this mentality in players, when anything bad happens, it'll cause stronger whining each time, which in turn cases more carebear patches... the vicious cycle haha ok, I'm also whining, but for same reason as other people - it's the carebear patches! Seriously how much money do you get from killing someone doing level 2 missions in a low end cruiser like a Carcal or a Celestis already engaged in combat and otherwise distracted? Usually nothing! The only reason you do it is for griefing another player who is much lower than you. Piracy would be if he had demanded money before the kill. Why? Because a) you'd most likely have a much better ship b) you'd be outfitted for pvp whereas the mission runner would be armed for pvp. Its also griefing if you talk smack in local imho, a real pirate just kills and kills clean.
Lallante	Posted - 2004.04.07 03:02:00 - [14] i dont really see any problem here: what exactly is wrong with having a little risk in your isk treadmill? Lall - THE Vocal Minority - ShinRa
Nathan Adler	Posted - 2004.04.07 03:15:00 - [15] Edited by: Nathan Adler on 07/04/2004 03:57:20 If this was a a mission bookmark as in something out in the middle of space, I can see how it can possibly be considered an exploit, although I don't see how it would fit in the classic definition of using a flaw in game mechanics. If, on the other hand, it was at a point of interest type place where there are regular pirates spawns and loot cans, it would be rather foolish to even consider it being an exploit, as those are accessible to almost anyone at any time. Edit: Also, I think telling someone that what they are doing is a bannable offense when it is not is in itself a bad thing to do, and should have a punishment in some cases. Just an opinion, of course, nothing personal.
Demos Q'algryph	Posted - 2004.04.07 03:26:00 - [16] Its not an exploit, it is legal. But, it isnt condoned by alot of the playerbase. Already, early in this thread you hear of someone "policing" by saying he will go and visit that person. In my opinion that is the correct, and only way to police a mmog pvp game. By the community. I dont want anymore rules from ccp, just let the players police other players action in low security space.
Vorax	Posted - 2004.04.07 04:00:00 - [17] Well, we went back to the spot and took him out (Darrin brought some friends). Was nice of them to do that. But I heard back from CCP, yes this is a spot in the middle of no where, but the pirates will spawn there every time and it can be bookmarked. The game mechanics do not create random mission spots "at this time". It is not considered an exploit...to them. The guy did this same thing to many people tonight. So if anyone wants to take a big ass cruiser, a loaded battle ship, or some friends with frigates and camp mission spawns waiting for unprepared people who are lower then you to blow up for kicks...go for it! No need to pirate in asteroids or in 0.0 at all! Why do that? To hard to find people! Why be challenged when you can sit and wait for them to come to you in droves with total confidence you will win! Heck, why do anything other then pirating?? I have a BB and the skills, I should go camp some level 2 and 3 mission spots waiting for prey! I could earn back my ship through extortion and/or loot in an hour or so! Course I would **** people off in droves, but CCP don't care! Woot! Sorry, but thats not my kinda game. It will take many more months before I can defend against this kind of attack and in the mean time I am supposed to just accept it and move on. That doesn't sound like a game, that sounds like work and I don't pay to work. To those enjoying the game though, I hope you don't run into any of these mission campers or if you do, you are strong enough to defend yourself wihtout needing to group up to do missions.
jamesw	Posted - 2004.04.07 04:05:00 - [18] Edited by: jamesw on 07/04/2004 04:07:51 1 Simple Answer - if you cant handle agent running in 0.4 dont do it!! Either get a new agent or reject 0.4 kill missions. If you still cant handle that, get a new agent. For those who find agent running too strenuous or dangerous, go afk mine in Yulai or something - thats pretty safe, and quite fun for those who do not enjoy PvP. Edit: just to expand/reiterate - there are lvl 3 agents who do not send you to low sec. use your map to find them. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia Originally by: RollinDutchMasters I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2004.04.07 04:06:00 - [19] Quote: Edited by: Nathan Adler on 07/04/2004 03:57:20 If this was a a mission bookmark as in something out in the middle of space, I can see how it can possibly be considered an exploit, although I don't see how it would fit in the classic definition of using a flaw in game mechanics. The flaw being, the system isn't well-written enough to generate truly random bookmarks. In in-game theory, those NPC rats could be absolutely anywhere, so it's flatly impossible for anyone to be camping the spot and waiting for you; in out-game practice, it can be done. In any event, CCP don't use the "classic" definition. It's an exploit if CCP say it's an exploit, and it isn't if they don't. _______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age."
Mephisha	Posted - 2004.04.07 05:36:00 - [20] @Voraz .... try to think of it this way There are 5000 systems in eve At peak times there are 8000 ppl online. Out of these 8000 the vast majority of ppl is non-pirate or honorable. Chances of gates or spawn points being camped by griefers are very very low. For the griefer the same is true. There are so many agents around that chances are low that many ppl will be doing a mission that will bring them to THAT point. Seems to me you were hit by a griefer. Mark his name and "thank" him whenever you can, by blowing up his ship. Other than that ... get another agent (if you don't want to run into him again) and move on. P.s. Set personal standing to -10 and he will show up red on your screen. If he's there and you're not rdy to meet him .. just move away to avoid frustration. ------------------------------------------------ I have seen carebears with claws and PvP-Lords hiding in high sec space. So AWAY with all those terms. We are ALL citizens of EVE.
CAPTmintor	Posted - 2004.04.07 07:38:00 - [21] not bad player name golem from aza corp who uses cheat to kill players. player like need be kick
Deadflip2	Posted - 2004.04.07 07:40:00 - [22] well the gms have improved nowadays, so i think they might reimburse your ship... but i donno if its a exploit or not --- "this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me. I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist OMG im a pretzel!!!
Adriana	Posted - 2004.04.07 08:01:00 - [23] Actually Mephista, the chance of getting a mission runner at a certain spawn point isn't that low. Here's how it works. You the mission runner looks around for the best quality agent you can get. The reason you do this is to get the best rewards. The player rat looks around and knowing that the best rewards are offered by a certain agent camps the PvP spawn point of highly used agents. By doing this you have a high chance of multiple targets, all rigged for PvE NOT PvP. Easy pickings, especially once you let them get into the fight with the NPCs. Not only that, the mission rats oftentimes drop the nice rewards, so the griefer not only gets your mods, they also get the mission drops. Its really a smart way to pirate if you look at it only from the money aspect. So what you have is what I would consider to be an exploit of the mission system. Too bad CCP disagrees. I don't undrstand why they don't see it this way, but oh well. They need to rethink this or they will lose more players. Especially if people start camping the newbie agent mission spawn points like this. Bottom line...this is griefing and should be dealt with harshly. Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -Napoleon Bonaparte
Darrin Tobruk	Posted - 2004.04.07 08:18:00 - [24] Edited by: Darrin Tobruk on 07/04/2004 08:21:10 Quote: @Voraz .... try to think of it this way There are 5000 systems in eve At peak times there are 8000 ppl online. Out of these 8000 the vast majority of ppl is non-pirate or honorable. Chances of gates or spawn points being camped by griefers are very very low. For the griefer the same is true. There are so many agents around that chances are low that many ppl will be doing a mission that will bring them to THAT point. Actually, there were about three people who showed up at the bookmark after we evicted Fugazii for the 30 minutes we were holding it. This guy must be the greatest agent in Eve. Edit: Come to think of it, there were a couple more people who showed up and thought we were camping it, so they left. _______________________________________________ Eris Discordia: On the scale of funny and constructive it scores low, real low.
MrMojo	Posted - 2004.04.07 09:14:00 - [25] Edited by: MrMojo on 07/04/2004 09:18:36 it sounds like Vorax wants all the reward with no risk its 0.4 u accept the mission u accept the risk. the way i see it now is u got some1 to help u extact revenge on the camping fugazii and that is Eve justice asking CCP to make 0.4 100% safe is wrong. what if you turned up and the NPC's warp scrambled and web'd u before ripping your ship apart? would u cry foul and threaten to quit then? the mission had risks appropriate to the system it was in - whether or not those risks are PvE or PvP is not the issue - and those risks reap rewards i dont see Fugazii on here complaining he was ganked at a mission spawn site. he took the risk that someone would come and oust him with force causality - its what makes the universe go round /edit - typo
SlightlyMad	Posted - 2004.04.07 09:18:00 - [26] The slaughtermonkeys that resort to such low tactics are as much carebears as those who mine. There is no challange involved at all camping a missionspot and gank newbies that show up. It has nothing to do with "wanting to PvP". Its just a mindless and unchallanging form of killing and it is very low. That corp is built on alts. Feel free to mail me ingame of any further sightings of people from that paricular corp. * -"You know, we play the "good guys" right? We kill pirates, griefers, retards and general subversive elements in the EVE-Community. To the rest, we are friendly and always prepared to help out. Peo
MrMojo	Posted - 2004.04.07 09:42:00 - [27] Quote: The slaughtermonkeys that resort to such low tactics are as much carebears as those who mine. There is no challange involved at all camping a missionspot and gank newbies that show up. It has nothing to do with "wanting to PvP". Its just a mindless and unchallanging form of killing and it is very low. That corp is built on alts. Feel free to mail me ingame of any further sightings of people from that paricular corp. the morals involved with Fugazii's actions is a different issue yes it is 'lame' or 'cheap' or whatever emotive u wish to use to describe his tactics - but it is still a tactic and legitimate in the overall scheme of things (whether it is an exploit or not is for CCP to decide as here the exploit would be they didnt intend for these type of situations to arise - but then if they dont tell people they cant do these things then how are players to know...) comparing people who mine with these so-called griefers is ridiculous - firstly because mining is intended. it is the bedrock to the whole eve economy and calling every1 who mines a carebear displays a complete lack of insight - and secondly i dont see these campers whineing in a "carebear" way that they want to be 100% safe while they gank mission runners its 0.4 - concord dont care - u do - do something about it in game and not whinge on forum coz some1 got the better of u (u is used in the generic sense here)
kwoodward	Posted - 2004.04.07 09:50:00 - [28] i regularly do missions in sub 0.4, as such i have a setup that will allow me to get out if need be (when over killing the dom), otherwise i just use a cheap ship i donÆt care about getting splattered. a rule of thumb is tho, if there is someone at the mission point check them out before you engage the npc's, if they are a "bad guy" wait till they warp out if your not sure wait, or if you just donÆt care (usually me) go ahead and take the npc's. I think this is a valid tactic used by pirates (<0.4 should be lawless out of sentry range) but it's quite lame killing cruisers or anyone that is not ready e.g. already engaged. If only concord add bounty and auto mail to a bounty hunter list or something every time someone was killed you would see a lot less camping and another profession come alive. Meow!
SlightlyMad	Posted - 2004.04.07 09:59:00 - [29] Quote: the morals involved with Fugazii's actions is a different issue yes it is 'lame' or 'cheap' or whatever emotive u wish to use to describe his tactics - but it is still a tactic and legitimate in the overall scheme of things (whether it is an exploit or not is for CCP to decide as here the exploit would be they didnt intend for these type of situations to arise - but then if they dont tell people they cant do these things then how are players to know...) comparing people who mine with these so-called griefers is ridiculous - firstly because mining is intended. it is the bedrock to the whole eve economy and calling every1 who mines a carebear displays a complete lack of insight - and secondly i dont see these campers whineing in a "carebear" way that they want to be 100% safe while they gank mission runners its 0.4 - concord dont care - u do - do something about it in game and not whinge on forum coz some1 got the better of u (u is used in the generic sense here) You misunderstood me a bit. My remark about carebears was adressed to those who use it themselves to describe miners and others that doesn't nescessarily want to fight. Its not "whiners" or "carebears" that can destroy the game. All the "nerfs" are instituted because some players take a pleasure in killing really weak people. And to just grief and destroy. Agent missions are a bit flawed, so naturally. Someone comes up with a very fun tactic to camp out and kill whoever warps in. Its about as stupid as those people who lock n00bs at gates to see Concord blow them up. A carebear is not nescessarily one who doesn't want to fight. A carebear is a person that want the game to be as easy as possible just for him * -"You know, we play the "good guys" right? We kill pirates, griefers, retards and general subversive elements in the EVE-Community. To the rest, we are friendly and always prepared to help out. Peo
MrMojo	Posted - 2004.04.07 14:02:00 - [30] Point taken Slightymad i, personally, dont agree with his tactic and - yes - i agree that these situations can bring future in-game grief through environment adjustments by CCP to counter the complaints however - it is well within our hands - the players - to sort this - to police it as it were and this is exactly what happened when vorax acquired help and chased off fugazii this to me is good. this to me is EVE. threatening to quit because of 1 unfortunate incident is bad i just wish EVE peoples would empower themselves more. Vorax must surely have got great satisfaction when he went back and took revenge. that MUST have felt better than having a whinge on the forum. i would have had the greatest respect for him if his inital post said "i got ganked at a mission spawn site - need help to hand fugazzi his a$$ on a plate"
pHASE 11	Posted - 2004.04.07 14:14:00 - [31] ... and then you ganked him. Nice work, that's how it should be done. Next time do this first and make this post later informing ppl about his tactic and which spawn it is. Yes fugazils tactic is lame, but on the other hand a totally safe game is boring and you were in <0.5 space...
Dekar	Posted - 2004.04.07 14:17:00 - [32] Camping is not an exploit, its simply lame in most cases. And like someone else mentioned, getting killed in 0.4 areas and lower outside of sentry guns is all your own responsibility. ------------------------------------------------- Lying Scumbag
juel	Posted - 2004.04.07 14:26:00 - [33] Edited by: juel on 07/04/2004 14:38:59 Guy is an out and out loser. His bio sounds like someone who is insane( any 8 yr old could do lots better). I listened to him trashing a newbie miner yesterday in aunen system roids as we chased through them looking for him. Too bad we didnt find him. He is not the type you could deal with.
Damajink	Posted - 2004.04.07 14:33:00 - [34] Hehe, he's still at it. The guy tried to gank me back when I started, but I killed him first He still flying Kestrels?
pr0toss	Posted - 2004.04.07 14:41:00 - [35] Edited by: pr0toss on 07/04/2004 14:43:18 Vorax, petition it... I've been told by GM's that it was an exploit (would post the convo if it wasnt against rules ;) ) (note: Vorax, do missions for an agent in 0.8+ systems and he wont send you to any systems lower then 0.5)
Cortex Reaver	Posted - 2004.04.07 14:44:00 - [36] Quote: @Voraz .... try to think of it this way There are 5000 systems in eve At peak times there are 8000 ppl online. Out of these 8000 the vast majority of ppl is non-pirate or honorable. Chances of gates or spawn points being camped by griefers are very very low. For the griefer the same is true. There are so many agents around that chances are low that many ppl will be doing a mission that will bring them to THAT point. Seems to me you were hit by a griefer. Mark his name and "thank" him whenever you can, by blowing up his ship. Other than that ... get another agent (if you don't want to run into him again) and move on. P.s. Set personal standing to -10 and he will show up red on your screen. If he's there and you're not rdy to meet him .. just move away to avoid frustration. Gospel truth. . . -CR /* Cortex Reaver crtxreavr at trioptimum dot com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 */
Vorax	Posted - 2004.04.07 15:12:00 - [37] Edited by: Vorax on 07/04/2004 15:22:59 Quote: it sounds like Vorax wants all the reward with no risk No, I want to know what the risks really are. I hunt in .3-.4 asteroid fields for NPC pirates and have run into player pirates before (twice, died once). That I expected and it was actually fun, getting killed at mission spawns is just stupid. Quote: its 0.4 u accept the mission u accept the risk. the way i see it now is u got some1 to help u extact revenge on the camping fugazii and that is Eve justice That was nice of them to do. The problem to me is just how dumb the whole scenario is. While we were guarding the spot, I realized just how big a problem this really is because SEVERAL more people like myself showed up at the mission spot. Some left fearing we were going to gank them the same way. We were only there a half hour to an hour afterwords. I was shocked at how easy this makes pirating. I have heard many pirates say its tuff, honestly that would be much easier then even fighting NPCs and a helluva lot more profitable. Since CCP thinks this is fine, I really see NO reason for anyone to pirate in any other way. It goes like this: - Bookmark one of these mission spots by paying someone to take you there for their mission, getting there on your own by doing missoins, or a friend. - Sit there with your scanners boosters turned on and wait until you see NPC pirates spawn, you know you have an incomming victim. - If the guy warps in at your scarmble range, jamm/scram him and unleash the dmg. If he is out of range, simply warp out and come back in a minute or so later, once the guy is already fighting the mission pirates and then do the above. - Destroy him, extort him or whatever, rinse and repeat 5 minutes later when you see the NPC's spawn again. Why pirate any other way?? Its perfect, you get loot from NPC's and players, you get tons of ship ransoms, you are almost 100% safe as you always get the first shot or chance to run if the guy looks to tuff, you can just leave, he will be gone in a few minutes once the mission guys are dead. Quote: asking CCP to make 0.4 100% safe is wrong. what if you turned up and the NPC's warp scrambled and web'd u before ripping your ship apart? would u cry foul and threaten to quit then? I am not asking for it to be safe, I am asking for either random mission spots, making mission spots not bookmarkable (except by agent given bookmark, which expires) or by simply calling it an exploit. Anything that makes pirating that easy and safe should be considered an exploit. The guy was doing this to people for hours. He killed a few people more then once. As for NPC's scrambling and webing me, that has happend and I have died from that. I didn't cry foul. Actually it happened when I did my first level 3 mission, 2 75k pirates and a trasnport. So? Quote: the mission had risks appropriate to the system it was in - whether or not those risks are PvE or PvP is not the issue - and those risks reap rewards Well the reward was 76k if I got it done with an additional 73k if I got the bonus...seems worthy of risking 12 million worth of equipment, time etc becuase someone can use the games mechanics against me. Quote: i dont see Fugazii on here complaining he was ganked at a mission spawn site. he took the risk that someone would come and oust him with force causality - its what makes the universe go round Of course not, I said he was a pirate, not a hypocrite. :) As a Caldari, I could better defend myself using a Blackbird or Caracol against this kind of crap, if I actually wanted to continue playing. But first, it disgusts me that this is even possible, second it means I will make crap for cash because in those ships I need to use missles, and the cost of them basically takes 80% of your profits. That is why I was using a MOA, which is much cheaper to fly because of guns, but also much more vulnerable against player pirates. Even in a better ship, this form of pirating is so easy I would still likely die.
JackDonkey	Posted - 2004.04.07 15:18:00 - [38] No it is definetly not an exploit because part of CCPs reasoning for increasing sentry gun range was because that there are going to be more tempting scenarios like what you speak of out in .4 and below space. So they wanted the pirates to take their greifing away from stargates in .1-.4 and move them to scenarios like you're talking about.
Captain Canuck	Posted - 2004.04.07 16:02:00 - [39] Flawed logic, i think. If you want CCP to ensure your complete safety while doing agent missions in 0.4, then I want complete safety while mining in 0.4(getting killed takes all the fun out of it...???), and other people will want complete safety while doing ANYTHING except explicitly looking for pirates. 0.4 is 0.4 for a reason, its not safe, and shouldnt be safe for anything, it should be risky. Camping a mission spawn point is low, but....... Can i have your stuff?
Khali Nephtys	Posted - 2004.04.07 16:03:00 - [40] Oh dear I just read Fugazii's bio, I think it's a very good demonstration of why illegal boosters are banned, just say no kids!!! ;) I have to agree that what he is doing is lame, but ultimately I prefer the self administered version of justice, it's much more satisfying don't you agree? If it had happened to me I know I would be sore, and mad too, but when I take risks I take my lumps too, and get even wherever possible. Khabs am pehkt...........seize the stars.
juel	Posted - 2004.04.07 16:08:00 - [41] Very easy now that I know its a problem I check local when i come into system. Any pirates in system I get a cple corp mates to gang with and warp to me. Surprise mr pirate, your history. Otherwise I just do mission, which will be over with quick. Is it legit? Yeah I guess so. I dont like tactic much, but it is a tactic. Better than attacking totally defensless miners as at least for these missions you have to be armed so pirate is taking a risk...as he should be. Will it prevent people from doing missions? Some probably esp if you have a military agent. Seems to me there are more pirates these days or maybe they just coming in from 0.0 as there is nothing out there.
MrMojo	Posted - 2004.04.07 16:35:00 - [42] Edited by: MrMojo on 07/04/2004 16:38:13 Quote: No, I want to know what the risks really are. the risks are you are 0.4 space and can be attacked anywhere outside of Sentry Gun range. Quote: That was nice of them to do. The problem to me is just how dumb the whole scenario is. While we were guarding the spot, I realized just how big a problem this really is because SEVERAL more people like myself showed up at the mission spot. Some left fearing we were going to gank them the same way. We were only there a half hour to an hour afterwords. I was shocked at how easy this makes pirating. I have heard many pirates say its tuff, honestly that would be much easier then even fighting NPCs and a helluva lot more profitable. Since CCP thinks this is fine, I really see NO reason for anyone to pirate in any other way. It goes like this: - Bookmark one of these mission spots by paying someone to take you there for their mission, getting there on your own by doing missoins, or a friend. - Sit there with your scanners boosters turned on and wait until you see NPC pirates spawn, you know you have an incomming victim. - If the guy warps in at your scarmble range, jamm/scram him and unleash the dmg. If he is out of range, simply warp out and come back in a minute or so later, once the guy is already fighting the mission pirates and then do the above. - Destroy him, extort him or whatever, rinse and repeat 5 minutes later when you see the NPC's spawn again. Why pirate any other way?? Its perfect, you get loot from NPC's and players, you get tons of ship ransoms, you are almost 100% safe as you always get the first shot or chance to run if the guy looks to tuff, you can just leave, he will be gone in a few minutes once the mission guys are dead. hence the reason for the players to police these things themselves. is it that hard to organise a team - even 2 or 3 players - to cause them grief? most of these 'pirates' sh?t themselves if they think they have a real fight Quote: I am not asking for it to be safe, I am asking for either random mission spots, making mission spots not bookmarkable (except by agent given bookmark, which expires) or by simply calling it an exploit. Anything that makes pirating that easy and safe should be considered an exploit. The guy was doing this to people for hours. He killed a few people more then once. use the map - see the no. of ships killed? no. of pods destroyed? i think that is fair warning. when u get to system use local. fit a warp stabiliser and/or eccm. nowhere does it say u have to run around with a jammable set up - think 1st. Quote: As for NPC's scrambling and webing me, that has happend and I have died from that. I didn't cry foul. Actually it happened when I did my first level 3 mission, 2 75k pirates and a trasnport. So? so? so - u accepted the NPC risk but u refuse to accept the PvP risk... Quote: Well the reward was 76k if I got it done with an additional 73k if I got the bonus...seems worthy of risking 12 million worth of equipment, time etc becuase someone can use the games mechanics against me. and how many missions have u done? how much equipment u got? do u want missions to give 12mil in rewards EVERY time u go out? no... u have to put that 1 mission in context of all the missions u have done. the total of these is the reward Quote: As a Caldari, I could better defend myself using a Blackbird or Caracol against this kind of crap, if I actually wanted to continue playing. But first, it disgusts me that this is even possible, second it means I will make crap for cash because in those ships I need to use missles, and the cost of them basically takes 80% of your profits. That is why I was using a MOA, which is much cheaper to fly because of guns, but also much more vulnerable against player pirates. Even in a better ship, this form of pirating is so easy I would still likely die. the MOA isnt more vulernable against pirates - u set that moa up with a modicum of thought and there is very little chance a player lke fugazii is going to gank u. personally i would feel safer in a moa than a BB. a few FoFs and a smattering of Drones and its bye bye BB. the Moa can shield tank quite well (for a cruiser) and like i said before - u always have the ECCM and warp stabiliser options /edit damned typos
Faster ThanJesus	Posted - 2004.04.07 16:48:00 - [43] Quote: Flawed logic, i think. If you want CCP to ensure your complete safety while doing agent missions in 0.4, then I want complete safety while mining in 0.4(getting killed takes all the fun out of it...???), and other people will want complete safety while doing ANYTHING except explicitly looking for pirates. 0.4 is 0.4 for a reason, its not safe, and shouldnt be safe for anything, it should be risky. Camping a mission spawn point is low, but....... Can i have your stuff? Flawed logic? Consider: Mission 1: Pirates smuggling illegal substances are in aunenen at position 125342.3422314.4324123 Mission 2: Duo of death at aunenen position 125342.3422314.4324123 Mission 3: The rogue slave trader in aunenen at position 125342.3422314.4324123 ... Is that logical? Asteroid belts are static - they don't move (at least in a relative sense) - pirates would expect miners there This isn't about safety, this is about completely inadequate game mechanics. I would advocate long range scanners allowing pirates to locate and warp to victims any time (within a given radius). This maintains a degree of danger in <0.5 and forces a degree of effort on the pirates part whilst still maintaining cohesive game play and some semblance of logic to the events that unfold.
Vorax	Posted - 2004.04.07 16:56:00 - [44] Edited by: Vorax on 07/04/2004 17:07:16 Quote: and how many missions have u done? how much equipment u got? do u want missions to give 12mil in rewards EVERY time u go out? no... u have to put that 1 mission in context of all the missions u have done. the total of these is the reward Excellent point, you just showed me that all my 2 weeks of level 3 mission work was undone by a single player pirate that I would have had little or no chance to defend against with my less then a million skill points and lack of a battle ship in under 2 minutes. You really have a way of pointing out the absolute horror of the situation! I earned my MOA and BB both doing level 2 missions and saving. Fact is I am now further behind then I was doing level 2 and I hadn't even realized it. Not to mention that I should expect this kinda crap. Point taken, though you didn't need to convince me further, I already said I was quitting.
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2004.04.07 17:08:00 - [45] sir, in principle you are right. the grifer carebears will complain that ganking new players with no chance to defend themselves and quitting, costing the business money as they find something more fun than such an unexpected gank, isn't darwinian enough for them 'cause they're all hardcore badass mofos and it says so on their wallets. Practicality, however, won the day for you; you returned with Interested Parties and whacked him back, and now far more people know and will kill him than is probably worth it for him. Or not; he may be looking forward to it, which is good. As for losses to yourself, if the volunteer police force didn't help you recover what you lost, i will. Funny how people will not bat an eye at harming a stranger for no reason but the sake of it, but it occurs to far less to help a stranger for no reason but the sake of it, eh? Don't let it blow the game for you. In fact once you get stronger, it could BE the game for you. Nothing like a good sting operation... You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
Nuala Reece	Posted - 2004.04.07 17:08:00 - [46] Edited by: Nuala Reece on 07/04/2004 17:10:49 yeah - I've taken on missions in that system too. Been attacked too(very bravely, I thought) by missile attack from a blackbird against my punisher. But what can I say but to agree with many of the points already made? The first time I went there I assumed that these kind of missions would be at random locations. The second time it became obvious it wasn't. From that realization it becomes a much more cut-and-dried situation. It's a 0.4 system, well outside the range of any sentries and therefore has to be considered a very dangerous location, just like asteroid belts. The history of the game suggests that just because something is (or may be) considered an exploit is no reason to assume you can be safe from it. Watch local, watch the scanner, take the time to check out anyone who warps in, keep a wp ready or have autopilot set up and ready to go for a quick exit if necessary. If you're outgunned or outclassed get out of the way and wait for them to leave, or call in some friends to 'insist' they let you get on with your job. Oh - and train some skills. I haven't yet seen a lvl2 mission that couldn't be completed in a frigate - which is a much more acceptable loss than a cruiser for the potential payoff. Or if scrambling's a problem ... warp core stabilizers? Be Free Freelancing Corp
MrMojo	Posted - 2004.04.07 17:13:00 - [47] Quote: Edited by: Vorax on 07/04/2004 17:07:16 Quote: and how many missions have u done? how much equipment u got? do u want missions to give 12mil in rewards EVERY time u go out? no... u have to put that 1 mission in context of all the missions u have done. the total of these is the reward Excellent point, you just showed me that all my 2 weeks of level 3 mission work was undone by a single player pirate that I would have had little or no chance to defend against with my less then a million skill points and lack of a battle ship in under 2 minutes. You really have a way of pointing out the absolute horror of the situation! I earned my MOA and BB both doing level 2 missions and saving. Fact is I am now further behind then I was doing level 2 and I hadn't even realized it. Not to mention that I should expect this kinda crap. Point taken, though you didn't need to convince me further, I already said I was quitting. sounds to me you arent ready for 0.4 space and to quit because of this justs points out that this isnt the game for you or u extended yourself too far too quickly its a setback... that is all i can pretty much guarantee all players have had set backs - many far worse than yours. it would show far better character to get on with the game and realise it is all part of eve's learning curve. i dont want u to quit - i am trying to show u there are ways to avoid these things happening oh... and btw... there is a thing called insurance. that tends to soften blows remarkably well
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.04.07 17:21:00 - [48] Revenge is a dish best served on the sleek hull of a high impact torpedo. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Vorax	Posted - 2004.04.07 17:30:00 - [49] Well, I agree I am not ready for .4 space because unless I had a battle ship, I would have pretty much been dead no matter what I was flying or even how it was configured. I might have had a bit of a better chance, but he still would have had a huge upper hand because I was busy fighting pirates. Either way, I guess the game isn't for me if this is the way things go. At least others were made aware of what is going on and hopefully can better prepare for it or at least learn to run. I accept that this is my mistake because this is what the game allows, but I really don't feel like replaying the last two weeks and hoping that it doesn't happen again, or moving on to crappier agents and taking a month to accomplish the same thing. Oh and I did have insurance, the 12 million was in fittings, ammo and missles on board, plus the cost of getting new insurance. It works out to more money then I have made doing level 3 missions for 2 weeks, but I am not a power player and maybe that is also part of the problem. If I had more time to play then perhaps it would be profitable even with these setbacks.
MrMojo	Posted - 2004.04.07 17:42:00 - [50] if u were zoomed and keeping an eye on local space u would see have seen fugazii if u had warp core stabilisers on u could have run if u had MWD - u could have run u got got ganked by an ar$e in a BS - it happened to me when TANK CEO 1st started camping sarum at jump in points i lost a lot, probably more than you as i had 27% expanders fitted to my indy - but since then i have been far more careful - far better prepared - far more wary and i have taken revenge on TANK wannabe's you have taken a step back - now take 2 forward. if u quit fugazii wins 1 over on u again
Acix	Posted - 2004.04.07 17:47:00 - [51] If he would have been at the gate and killed you with a better setup, would it have been an exploit because you were running agent missions? Sorry I don't have much sympathy for you. You have been warned by a little pop-up window that concord will not help you in <.5 space. You chose not to head the warning and went out there thinking you would not be attacked. Its a setback that everyone has had to deal with at some point and time. You are at the turning point of EVE right now. You lost a ship that you over extended yourself on. More than likely you will not leave. But if you stay remember this as a leason .4 and below space is not safe anywhere....... Also do not use a ship you are not ready to loose, or fit modules you don't mind loosing, if you go below .5 space. Feel lucky that eve is doing well enough now that you can get to the point you are in the time you have played. Those of us that started in frigates and couldn't buy a cruiser if we wanted to, would have killed to have gotten where you did in the time you have played............. Oh sorry, side note: You can hire my corp to kill him........... SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts. For more info click below http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313
Tease	Posted - 2004.04.07 17:55:00 - [52] Quote: Sorry I don't have much sympathy for you. You have been warned by a little pop-up window that concord will not help you in <.5 space. You chose not to head the warning and went out there thinking you would not be attacked. I have sympathy for mission runners who get ganked at these spots. Primarily because I pay attention to the game and know that you DON'T get that pop-up when you're flying with AutoPilot, a fact which has been mentioned time and time again to the Devs. So instead of looking down on players who've never seen this "warning" and criticizing them for not heeding something which never pops up when you're Auto-piloting your way to a kill mission bookmark, I continue to report it as a bug and submit it to CSM reps who never ask the Devs why this hasn't been fixed. ----------------------------------------- [2003.12.17 06:35:20] Corwin > Orvolle is .4? Doesn't that mean that it's less than .5 ? and isn't .5 what starts the danger level? [2003.12.30 07:15:50] Corwin > Tech 2, IE expanded cargo holds I, MIning lasers 2, etc.... TL2 is being released all around you [2003.12.30 07:21:20] Corwin > tech 2 is released to players. Some players are busy researching the BPs before building stuff. Others are sitting on the BPs making copies to make money off of them that way
Zak Kingsman	Posted - 2004.04.07 17:55:00 - [53] Yeah the problem with aunenen spot is there are multiple missions from multiple agents that go there. Also, unless they are -5 sec status you get a security hit if you try to move them off the spot(unless you want to wait for them to aggro you first). The self policing by players needs to be looked at in this game because with the way it is now any moderately successful pirate hunter will have as low of a sec status as a pirate.
Malice Devilbunny	Posted - 2004.04.07 17:59:00 - [54] Never let the griefer win, find a tactic to fight back and turn the tables. Any time you go to sub .5 space be ready for a rumble. I been playing a little over 2 weeks and have run into similar situations. Actually I kinda like the fact that someone is so predicatble and will try to exploit this ambush for my benefit, and their termination. If you have someone doing this, ambush em, nail em, and pod em.
Darrin Tobruk	Posted - 2004.04.07 18:00:00 - [55] Quote: you have taken a step back - now take 2 forward. if u quit fugazii wins 1 over on u again I agree with MrMojo, Vorax. If you quit, he wins. You seemed happy to get Fugazii's corpse. Let that motivate you to keep on going for a while. Next time you get a mission to low security space, give me a shout. See you around, I hope. _______________________________________________ Eris Discordia: On the scale of funny and constructive it scores low, real low.
Lallante	Posted - 2004.04.07 18:05:00 - [56] The devs have repeatedly stated they dont want ANY risk free isk generating activities, and yet you cry exploit? From a RP perspective, this spot is a known 'degenerate' hangout (as evidenced by the several different agent missions to it), what is odd, unfair or eploitative about another lowlife hanging there too? You only accept a risk if you know in advance exactly what itll be?? ThaTS like me claiming exploit because NPC bss spawn in the 0.0 belt id been mining in when i expected cruisers! Lall - THE Vocal Minority - ShinRa
Vorax	Posted - 2004.04.07 18:08:00 - [57] Well, I am not looking for sympathy. But I am dissapointed with the game. I guess the bottom line is that i don't like PvP that is unfair and I am unwilling to accept it. That is my fault, not the games. I played for a top North American clan for FPS games and have also done development for one of the games. That is my background and that is probably why this notion of unfair advantages is hard for me to accept. I am used to matching my skills against another, not my ships configs and my characters skills. In the FPS world, anything that gives one player an advantage over another, other then their own skill, is an exploit...and campers are lowest of the low and 9/10 are simply kicked from the servers. I certainly understand the difference between MMO PvP and FPS PvP now, if nothing else Good luck to all of you and thanks for clearing all of this up for me. I feel much better about the whole thing now actually. Its better I realize the game is not for me now, then a couple of months down the road when the losses would probably **** me off that much more
Acix	Posted - 2004.04.07 18:31:00 - [58] Quote: Primarily because I pay attention to the game and know that you DON'T get that pop-up when you're flying with AutoPilot, a fact Hmmm, last time I reset my EVE game and cleared all my settings it showed up. It did not stop my ship if that is what you want it to do. It also went away after I jumped. Even tho this might happen, everyone that has entered .4 space does not always do so on autopilot. So if you were paying attention to the game you would have accepted the risk and check marked the message not to return. It is funny to have the words "I pay attention" and autopilot in the same sentence. hehehehe SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts. For more info click below http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313
Malice Devilbunny	Posted - 2004.04.07 18:43:00 - [59] Hmm, any FPS I've ever played you had cheaters, hackers, exploiters, and general dinks. You just have to suck it up and roll over them with shear skill and bravado. Wish you the best of luck, but I will say this, don't ever expect fair pvp in a online game, I spent a long time in EQ and DAOC, and you will always have someone looking for a easier way to kill and/or grief. But you will also have a lot of good fights with people who pvp for fun.
Qutsemnie	Posted - 2004.04.07 21:16:00 - [60] I still dont believe you had to die even after you were engaged with rats and he came back. Was he really that fast or did you simply try to finish hoping in your head he wasnt going to pirate you? When that happens to me I warp out as soon as someone gets on auto. Nobodys been fast enough to get me. Mission over or hold it until its safe later. The pause to evaluate is what gets you offed. That "ok were within a 100km Ill just wait and let him make a move cause i dont want to loose what im doing" is what gets ya dead if your not prepared to fight back. The only safe time to think is when your at warp, alone, or saying neener behind a sentry gun. When someone is on auto in .4 space I assume its a conflict. But I dont play well with others either =) You really dont have to wait long to be certain someone is a pirate. the reason is if they are at a mission way point I do sympathize though. I think if CPP says its illegal then its illegal. However that prolly doesnt get your ship back most of the time. Personally even though I dont condone the behavior if CPP cannot manage the behavior I wish CPP would say it was legal just so everyone could move on.
Shocky	Posted - 2004.04.07 22:46:00 - [61] Camping mission rat spawn points should be banned. Just found a BS and Missile Frigate player pirates at a mission spawn point armed with cruise missiles. Now I was able to kill my target and leave before they could do any serious damage but not everyone will be so lucky. Allot of level 2 missions involve this location so heres the situation as I see it for newbies.. New player joins eve, Completes tutorials then moves on to basic lev2 combat missions. First mission, Finds a BS and or missile frigate at the mission location and looses his ship.. Player logs off never to return for obvious reasons. Now if that kind of abuse of the mission spawn location is really allowed then I'm really worried about this game.
Artika	Posted - 2004.04.07 23:01:00 - [62] Hey, Vorax man don't let this griefer get to you, he just some guy who get's picked on and has no life in reallife so he get's to be "tough" in game because he has PLAYED a GAME longer than you So keep a stiff upper lip man Artika "No matter how good she looks, some guy is sick and tired of putting up with her crap"
Cpt DarkKnight	Posted - 2004.04.07 23:43:00 - [63] Sorry to see you go. At least you found out that this is not your type of game now rather then later before spending a couple of months of time, and real life money only to find that you don't like this type of game. I my self have learned a few things from this thread. So a thanks to everyone who gave Vorax advice. You not only helped him, but me and I am sure others as well.
Angry Dan	Posted - 2004.04.08 00:34:00 - [64] Quote: Hey, Vorax man don't let this griefer get to you, he just some guy who get's picked on and has no life in reallife so he get's to be "tough" in game because he has PLAYED a GAME longer than you So keep a stiff upper lip man Thats so true. IMO, if your such a tough hard pirate why are waiting around for easy kills, or is it the fact that your hand/eye co ordination is so bad from from all your one handed typing that you can't play a real PVP like Unreal Tournament? Well, that my excuse for playing EVE ++++++++++++++++++++ CEO of the Space Munchkins. Fear my kneepads of allure! Huzzah Federation Foreign Minister - Ask about our tasty NAP's - Now in protein delicacy and cow flavour!
Maidel	Posted - 2004.04.08 01:11:00 - [65] im very glad i have read this thread, i was under the impression that it was an exploit... but im often wrong. That said im certainly moving agents, cos my bs is far too valuable to get stuffed by pc pirates. 'Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Sansha's Ravager, wrecking for 554.6 damage. - they do work occationally'
Mitchman	Posted - 2004.04.08 01:33:00 - [66] Edited by: Mitchman on 08/04/2004 01:35:34 If it is any consolation to you, we killed fugazii and his buddy Intak today in Aunenen and will continue to do so until they find other hunting grounds. Pod got away on Intak.
Smacktastic	Posted - 2004.04.08 02:56:00 - [67] I want to know how such a corporation like Carebear Exterminators have been granted membership in C4 alliance? ---------------------------------- Moderator @ www.killer-clowns.com
corporal hicks	Posted - 2004.04.08 03:32:00 - [68] It really is silly that people camp the mission points. I know 0.4 space is ment to be dangerous but camping mission spots is just nasty and for people with no skill or imagination. The worst part is not only do the mission runners lose there ships and gear but most of the time they fail to do the mission. I have been in this position before where i was told by some other players to be carefull that there was a guy was camping a spawn in a kestral can't remember his name but was ganking runners. me been a bit mad at time's was doing level 2 agent missions in a battleship so tooled up and blew him up. there is no way to avoid these morons and it really is up to the community to police itself. As proved on this post allready most players are not pirates as such and all you have to do is ask for help in one of the systems around the spawn and 9 out of 10 times someone will respond and come and help clear the spawn. " Stay Frosty "
Darrin Tobruk	Posted - 2004.04.08 03:42:00 - [69] Quote: Edited by: Mitchman on 08/04/2004 01:35:34 If it is any consolation to you, we killed fugazii and his buddy Intak today in Aunenen and will continue to do so until they find other hunting grounds. Pod got away on Intak. Looks like things are getting a bit too hot for Mr. Fugazii in Aunenen. What's this now? At least the second time in two days he's been podded there _______________________________________________ Eris Discordia: On the scale of funny and constructive it scores low, real low.
MrMojo	Posted - 2004.04.08 08:23:00 - [70] Edited by: MrMojo on 08/04/2004 08:24:14 Quote: If it is any consolation to you, we killed fugazii and his buddy Intak today in Aunenen and will continue to do so until they find other hunting grounds. Pod got away on Intak. this is what EVE is about. live by the sword... die by the searing light of Tachyon Justice (insert weapon of choice here)
Valorian	Posted - 2004.04.08 09:04:00 - [71] Hmm, someone mentioned the below 0.5 pop-up warning. Didn't know the code had been changed for people using autopilot. I know it comes when you actively choose "Jump" into a system below 0.5 (or did before I disabled it). Perhaps a similar pop-up is warranted when you activate your autopilot and the path includes <0.5 systems (again with the option to not show that message in future). That way you are definitely warned no matter how you enter a <0.5 system. An NPC Corporation is not the pilot of its ships and structures!
Reacan	Posted - 2004.04.08 11:14:00 - [72] Edited by: Reacan on 08/04/2004 11:16:24 Quote: ...As proved on this post allready most players are not pirates as such and all you have to do is ask for help in one of the systems around the spawn and 9 out of 10 times someone will respond and come and help clear the spawn. 'S funny. Last time I asked for help to exterminate some NPC pirates, it turned out the 'help' themselves were pirates...lost two Rifters that way. One to the NPC pirates, one to the PC pirates. I'm still here, though...gonna visit those PC pirates as soon as I have a chance of winning
corporal hicks	Posted - 2004.04.08 11:25:00 - [73] Quote: Edited by: Reacan on 08/04/2004 11:16:24 Quote: ...As proved on this post allready most players are not pirates as such and all you have to do is ask for help in one of the systems around the spawn and 9 out of 10 times someone will respond and come and help clear the spawn. 'S funny. Last time I asked for help to exterminate some NPC pirates, it turned out the 'help' themselves were pirates...lost two Rifters that way. One to the NPC pirates, one to the PC pirates. I'm still here, though...gonna visit those PC pirates as soon as I have a chance of winning Wow I hate that mate but you should allways check a pilots tag in local if in low sec. and his corp tag. You will figure out after a while what corps are good and who are not. Like asking some guy named lord zap ( sorry zap ) from some corp named m0o to help you is like pressing the self destrute on your own ship. Look at the corporation and look at there rating versus concord and also what corps they like or dislike is a good indication of what type of corp they are. Example a corp that likes m0o or m3g4 is likly to be a pirate corp and one that likes someone like bladerunners or celestial apoc is most likly not to be a pirate corp. It's all about knowing what corps are famous for what and working it out from who they like and don't like. " Stay Frosty "
mafish	Posted - 2004.04.08 11:39:00 - [74] as i see it as soon as you enter 0.4-0.0 you have accespted the risk all i can say is Lallante is right people just want to be able to get risk free isk but putting there auto pilot on get there they can even sit afk at the gate with 8 guns then warp to there outta the way bookmark and repeat i have recently had eve mails from a raven i killed at a spawn at a planet claiming that i am stopping people doing agent missions... so what you do your thing i will do mine like alot of people have said if you carnt handle your self in 0.4 dont go
MoLeH	Posted - 2004.04.08 11:44:00 - [75] LMFAO, first of all your mission is at a safespot, so it takes loads of effort to find this safespot or you have to have done missions, most pirate wont bother to try and find this safespot or have done the missions so quite regularly agent runners in 0.1-0.4 go from gates with 8 sentries to gate with 8 sentries to safe spot with very litle to no possibility of beeing ransomed or killed, and you complainf that some guy has spent the time to find a mission spawn in "UNSAFE" space and has killed you ?? go back to 1.0 you carebear. -------------------------------------- Do you see people in real life whining that their enjoyment was ruined by a shark when they went swimming in dangerous waters? - Viceroy
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.04.08 11:48:00 - [76] Quote: LMFAO, first of all your mission is at a safespot, so it takes loads of effort to find this safespot or you have to have done missions, most pirate wont bother to try and find this safespot or have done the missions so quite regularly agent runners in 0.1-0.4 go from gates with 8 sentries to gate with 8 sentries to safe spot with very litle to no possibility of beeing ransomed or killed, and you complainf that some guy has spent the time to find a mission spawn in "UNSAFE" space and has killed you ?? go back to 1.0 you carebear. The pirate could get the same "safespot" by doing missions also. I've arrived at the destination of a kill mission to find another player already there and he was doing a mission for a different agent/same corporation. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
MoLeH	Posted - 2004.04.08 11:54:00 - [77] yes i said PKers could get the BM from agents but how many of them actually do missions ? -------------------------------------- Do you see people in real life whining that their enjoyment was ruined by a shark when they went swimming in dangerous waters? - Viceroy
MrMojo	Posted - 2004.04.08 13:08:00 - [78] Quote: yes i said PKers could get the BM from agents but how many of them actually do missions ? or they simpley know some1 that has the BM already and gang warps to them and sets his own BM... not exactly rocket science and i doubt very much a griefer-pirate will try 'find' these location with scanners etc that would require effort
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2004.04.08 13:26:00 - [79] Quote: Camping mission rat spawn points should be banned. Just found a BS and Missile Frigate player pirates at a mission spawn point armed with cruise missiles. Now I was able to kill my target and leave before they could do any serious damage but not everyone will be so lucky. Allot of level 2 missions involve this location so heres the situation as I see it for newbies.. New player joins eve, Completes tutorials then moves on to basic lev2 combat missions. First mission, Finds a BS and or missile frigate at the mission location and looses his ship.. Player logs off never to return for obvious reasons. Now if that kind of abuse of the mission spawn location is really allowed then I'm really worried about this game. HEY DEVS, PRINT THAT OUT AND TAPE IT OVER YOUR DESKS. All the virtual badasses can post how cool and tough they are all they want. Bottom line is, if people new to a game get introduced to these concepts with what's essentially an old-school MUD deathtrap, they're gonna leave and go play CoH or something. Like all immigrants, you think you should keep out MORE immigrants, perhaps.... but that won't really help anyone :P You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2004.04.08 13:28:00 - [80] Quote: Edited by: Reacan on 08/04/2004 11:16:24 Quote: ...As proved on this post allready most players are not pirates as such and all you have to do is ask for help in one of the systems around the spawn and 9 out of 10 times someone will respond and come and help clear the spawn. 'S funny. Last time I asked for help to exterminate some NPC pirates, it turned out the 'help' themselves were pirates...lost two Rifters that way. One to the NPC pirates, one to the PC pirates. I'm still here, though...gonna visit those PC pirates as soon as I have a chance of winning Send me an eve-mail ingame. You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2004.04.08 13:29:00 - [81] Quote: yes i said PKers could get the BM from agents but how many of them actually do missions ? You didn't read the thread at all, did you. You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.04.08 13:30:00 - [82] Does anyone else get the feeling BH now wears his underpants outside his trousers and has a strange habit of changing clothes in BT phone booths? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2004.04.08 13:51:00 - [83] Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 08/04/2004 13:53:12 Quote: Does anyone else get the feeling BH now wears his underpants outside his trousers and has a strange habit of changing clothes in BT phone booths? actually i wear your underpants outside my trousers. Safe spot! You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
Ravelin Eb	Posted - 2004.04.08 13:59:00 - [84] Edited by: Ravelin Eb on 08/04/2004 14:02:38 Edited by: Ravelin Eb on 08/04/2004 14:00:46 mafish said: Quote: as i see it as soon as you enter 0.4-0.0 you have accepted the risk all I can say is Lallante is right people just want to be able to get risk free isk but putting there auto pilot on get there they can even sit afk at the gate with 8 guns then warp to there outta the way bookmark and repeat i have recently had eve mails from a raven i killed at a spawn at a planet claiming that i am stopping people doing agent missions... so what you do your thing i will do mine like alot of people have said if you carnt handle your self in 0.4 dont go I wonder if you used the same tactic with that Raven pilot that you used with one of my corpmates recently? Not only did you attack him at an agent spawn point but you also spammed him with convo requests at the same time, limiting his ability to fight back or flee. Now I might not have a problem with the camping, it was 0.4 after all, but spamming convo requests while you attack someone is just extremely lame! Ravelin Eb
Khali Nephtys	Posted - 2004.04.08 14:12:00 - [85] Quote: as i see it as soon as you enter 0.4-0.0 you have accespted the risk all i can say is Lallante is right people just want to be able to get risk free isk but putting there auto pilot on get there they can even sit afk at the gate with 8 guns then warp to there outta the way bookmark and repeat i have recently had eve mails from a raven i killed at a spawn at a planet claiming that i am stopping people doing agent missions... so what you do your thing i will do mine like alot of people have said if you carnt handle your self in 0.4 dont go The thing I think you fail to see mister Mafish is that it isn't 'risk free' as you stated, the risk was something calculated on the difficulty of the agent level. After all they do actually have to fight the npc spawn don't they? There's your risk, and the rewards are fairly consistent with the risk taken, except when you take mission campers into the equation, and then the risk v's reward becomes very skewed indeed against the mission runner. We all know that leaving 0.5 space means a possibility of encountering hostile players, that's a given and a fair risk in most cases. What your post suggests is anyone without pvp skills now has no business being in a 0.4 system at all. Also that if they go there ill prepared for pvp despite the fact they are going there to kill npc's then they are fair game to you and your ilk. My real problem with this is the fact that people camp mission spawns with battleships, when it's fairly clear the runners will more often than not come with frigates or cruisers and be set up for npc killing. So where's your risk v's reward in this scenario? I am all for players learning to fend for themselves, I certainly have no issue with the dangers of 0.4 and below. I just find it sad that people try to justify very lame tactics, by making it sound as if it's the mission runners who are getting a free ride. Khabs am pehkt...........seize the stars.
Reacan	Posted - 2004.04.08 15:05:00 - [86] Quote: Wow I hate that mate but you should allways check a pilots tag in local if in low sec. and his corp tag. You will figure out after a while what corps are good and who are not. Like asking some guy named lord zap ( sorry zap ) from some corp named m0o to help you is like pressing the self destrute on your own ship. Look at the corporation and look at there rating versus concord and also what corps they like or dislike is a good indication of what type of corp they are. Example a corp that likes m0o or m3g4 is likly to be a pirate corp and one that likes someone like bladerunners or celestial apoc is most likly not to be a pirate corp. It's all about knowing what corps are famous for what and working it out from who they like and don't like. Yes, yes, you're absolutly right. It's just too bad I learned it the hard way
Tolas	Posted - 2004.04.08 18:47:00 - [87] Edited by: Tolas on 08/04/2004 18:49:31 Noone here is arguing the fact that .4 is and should be dangerous, noone is asking they be safe while doing missions. The point is here that the spawns in open space like that SHOULD be random. If there is a point of interest that is one thing, but open space needs to be random. The fact that people can bookmark a EMPTY portion of space, knowing soneone will show up in that EXACT location soon or later is lame. I don't get that same advantage if I were to go hunt down a pirate who does things like that if they move from the mission spot they were griefing do I? No, I have no idea where they go next, they could stay in the same system and go outside my sensor range, they could jump to another system, etc... Can I just right click and "warp to" knowing that when I come out of warp that a player will be there for me to kill? No I can't, unless I myself resort to camping mission spawn points. You want to setup a blockade in a .4 space in front of a jump gate? get nuts! I had better find a way through or around or I die right? No problems there. A mission spawn should not be campable however. It is a simple enough problem to fix, make the mission locations random, the player pirates can patrol the whole system if they want, if they find me, then good kill me, its your reward for finding me out in the middle of nowhere, same goes for Points of Interest and Jump Gates, all fine. THAT is the risk I assume while in that .4 space, not some lame camper who knows I am coming before I even warp to that spot.
mafish	Posted - 2004.04.08 22:48:00 - [88] Quote: Edited by: Ravelin Eb on 08/04/2004 14:02:38 Edited by: Ravelin Eb on 08/04/2004 14:00:46 mafish said: Quote: as i see it as soon as you enter 0.4-0.0 you have accepted the risk all I can say is Lallante is right people just want to be able to get risk free isk but putting there auto pilot on get there they can even sit afk at the gate with 8 guns then warp to there outta the way bookmark and repeat i have recently had eve mails from a raven i killed at a spawn at a planet claiming that i am stopping people doing agent missions... so what you do your thing i will do mine like alot of people have said if you carnt handle your self in 0.4 dont go I wonder if you used the same tactic with that Raven pilot that you used with one of my corpmates recently? Not only did you attack him at an agent spawn point but you also spammed him with convo requests at the same time, limiting his ability to fight back or flee. Now I might not have a problem with the camping, it was 0.4 after all, but spamming convo requests while you attack someone is just extremely lame! lmao spammed i warped in to a pirate spawn at a planet in a system see a bs lock scrammble convo to ransom he then rejects giveing me a message saying rejected witch is just as much bother to me as right click convo while trying not to kill him
mafish	Posted - 2004.04.08 22:56:00 - [89] Edited by: mafish on 08/04/2004 23:00:12 Quote: Quote: as i see it as soon as you enter 0.4-0.0 you have accespted the risk all i can say is Lallante is right people just want to be able to get risk free isk but putting there auto pilot on get there they can even sit afk at the gate with 8 guns then warp to there outta the way bookmark and repeat i have recently had eve mails from a raven i killed at a spawn at a planet claiming that i am stopping people doing agent missions... so what you do your thing i will do mine like alot of people have said if you carnt handle your self in 0.4 dont go The thing I think you fail to see mister Mafish is that it isn't 'risk free' as you stated, the risk was something calculated on the difficulty of the agent level. After all they do actually have to fight the npc spawn don't they? There's your risk, and the rewards are fairly consistent with the risk taken, except when you take mission campers into the equation, and then the risk v's reward becomes very skewed indeed against the mission runner. We all know that leaving 0.5 space means a possibility of encountering hostile players, that's a given and a fair risk in most cases. What your post suggests is anyone without pvp skills now has no business being in a 0.4 system at all. Also that if they go there ill prepared for pvp despite the fact they are going there to kill npc's then they are fair game to you and your ilk. My real problem with this is the fact that people camp mission spawns with battleships, when it's fairly clear the runners will more often than not come with frigates or cruisers and be set up for npc killing. So where's your risk v's reward in this scenario? I am all for players learning to fend for themselves, I certainly have no issue with the dangers of 0.4 and below. I just find it sad that people try to justify very lame tactics, by making it sound as if it's the mission runners who are getting a free ride. my risk is that i can warp into a spawn (as it is a commonly ocupied spawn not random location) and be faced with 2-3 bs which has happend and luckly for me they wernt set up well but to say people camp spawns is silly i dont know about other people but i would rather go system to system that camp a spawn all day and have a frigate every 30 mins then a bs every hour or so also you say that people dont want risk free missions only to be able to jump in total safty due to 8 sentery gun (dont know about ne one else but i aint that dam crazy) and warp to a random place kill there 15k pirates like the ones at this spawn in there tempests and ravens sounds pritty free to me
fugazii	Posted - 2004.04.09 10:28:00 - [90] ok so i finally discovered i had another post bout me, alright the spawn is not an open space there is debris there there isa permanent can there, theres even 2 lil npc's that orbit the debris. very rarely do i know when a ship is comin because usually the mission is to kill the 2 lil npc's, sayin ur ingaged ina heated battle gainst the npc's there is like sayin u lost ur ship to a roid so dont blame that asa ecscuse. i lose ships there all the time, i dont moan and complain about it i know the risks as well as all of u do, face it theres better people out there than u, u get owned work ur ass off and get revenge, u dont like fighting pay someone to do it for u, i got podded 2 days ina row it sucked lost my bounty my implants 2 ships but all thats tellin me is eh' get better get stronger, as well as it should to u. quacks the duck says dont do dru...er um boosters+☼+
Gan Howorth	Posted - 2004.04.09 11:25:00 - [91] Well it sucks to end up in a situation that you weren't prepared for but..Fugazii, despite his evident solvent abuse, is well within his right to make this game more interesting. The more i think about it, the more legitimate it seems. As for this sentence : "I guess the bottom line is that i don't like PvP that is unfair and I am unwilling to accept it". It scares me really.
Fester Addams	Posted - 2004.04.09 11:40:00 - [92] The reason why this is a possible exploit is that CCP have saved code when they created the mission by having a mission spawn location. Lets say I get mission A that is to go somwhere and ambush a gathering of NPC pirates, I succede and put the NPC on ice. Next time the mission comes up the place should in reality have moved as the gathering point is compromized, the NPC should gather at anothe place in space, a randomely generated point. This is however where CCP decided to save code, they created a number of mission spawn points that remain the same every time the mission comes up. Understandable and not a problem unless it gets abused. Sadly there are people who abuse all such timesavers given half a chance. Presonlayy I would prefer that they got permabanned early as they will keep abusing every "feature" they can find and with their actions will get others to do the same and or make good people quit the game.
Linus Freyr	Posted - 2004.04.09 11:49:00 - [93] Edited by: Linus Freyr on 09/04/2004 11:53:13 Happened to me the other day in a 0.4 system also. Armi Cool of Ark-Corp tried to ransom my Kestrel for 2 mil.. being a newbie I didnt have it so he blew me up not that I was planning on paying that much for a Kestrel anyways. I don't think it's an exploit persay, anymore than gate camping is. It's just ****ty as I was too busy watching the npcs to worry about him till I was locked down. Still was a learning lessons for me and it won't happen again in a hurry, and all he got from the kill was some launchers and missiles. Me I was fully insured so no great loss.. Life goes on.
Inconstant Moon	Posted - 2004.04.09 12:54:00 - [94] Gosh, it's very hard to make any sense of Fugazii and Mafish's comments. It is said that being unable to read or write can make one feel excluded from society, and in this case, it appears to be true.
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2004.04.09 13:11:00 - [95] Seriously. All the rah-rah from the Darwinists is fine and good, but why, when the actual griefers themselves show, are they always incoherent kiddies? The folks trying to defend this behaviour in a rational way are not, in fact, doing it themselves, are they? Most of them just seem to have mission to inist that if someone else's good time is ruined by a jerk, it's the fault of the ruinee, never the jerk. Whatever. You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
mafish	Posted - 2004.04.09 14:44:00 - [96] Quote: Seriously. All the rah-rah from the Darwinists is fine and good, but why, when the actual griefers themselves show, are they always incoherent kiddies? The folks trying to defend this behaviour in a rational way are not, in fact, doing it themselves, are they? Most of them just seem to have mission to inist that if someone else's good time is ruined by a jerk, it's the fault of the ruinee, never the jerk. Whatever. tbh its p[eople lik you that make me laugh why should i stop havuing my good time killing people so they can have a good time doing missions at the end of the day one of us has to stop and it aint gonna be me so stfu and die
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2004.04.09 15:10:00 - [97] Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 09/04/2004 15:11:58 Quote: Quote: Seriously. All the rah-rah from the Darwinists is fine and good, but why, when the actual griefers themselves show, are they always incoherent kiddies? The folks trying to defend this behaviour in a rational way are not, in fact, doing it themselves, are they? Most of them just seem to have mission to inist that if someone else's good time is ruined by a jerk, it's the fault of the ruinee, never the jerk. Whatever. tbh its p[eople lik you that make me laugh why should i stop havuing my good time killing people so they can have a good time doing missions at the end of the day one of us has to stop and it aint gonna be me so stfu and die wow. i so totally take back everything i said. you absolutely proved me wrong. i stand humbled by your eloquent splendor, sir. maybe you should just, as you say, "stfu" until you learn how to rub two words together 'til they spark into a sentence.... You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
OmegaTron	Posted - 2004.04.09 15:39:00 - [98] Quote: I was just killed by a player while at doing a mission at a spawn site from a bookmark. I heard before that this was not allowed. First, is this still the case? Second is there any hope that CCP will rememburse my stuff? I told the guy that what he was doing was bannable before I was killed, he didn't care and just continued. I saved the log of it. The guys name was Fugazil, a member of Care Bear Exterminators corp. His bio looked like the ramblings of 8 year old on to much Ritalin. If this is legal in the game then I am quitting. I am quite willing to be killed by players when I have a chance of defending myself, but this guy is counting on his victims not being able to or even being ready for a fight. Being killed like that is stupid. If I go into a .4 or lower to mine or pirate hunt in roids, I expect to have to deal with players and I prepare for it. But going to a mission spawn and having someone attack you while you are attacking pirates is a waste of my time and not a game I am willing to play. I hope CCP reads this and puts a foot down on this BS. i would just send in a petition and hope for the best. but don't quite the game cause of some pirate using lame tactics just hire someone to do your dirty work if u quite he will win good luck V ------------------------------------------------ A Plague is comming....
Nafri	Posted - 2004.04.09 16:41:00 - [99] well i cant believe it aunenen is 0.4 and one of the most dangerous 0.4 out there, why shouldnt you get killed when you enter it? i remember the days when you get instant podded by entering it well, this game is getting strange Wanna fly with me?
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.04.09 16:43:00 - [100] Quote: Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 08/04/2004 13:53:12 Quote: Does anyone else get the feeling BH now wears his underpants outside his trousers and has a strange habit of changing clothes in BT phone booths? actually i wear your underpants outside my trousers. Safe spot! Awesome comeback LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
mafish	Posted - 2004.04.09 20:25:00 - [101] Quote: Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 09/04/2004 15:11:58 Quote: Quote: Seriously. All the rah-rah from the Darwinists is fine and good, but why, when the actual griefers themselves show, are they always incoherent kiddies? The folks trying to defend this behaviour in a rational way are not, in fact, doing it themselves, are they? Most of them just seem to have mission to inist that if someone else's good time is ruined by a jerk, it's the fault of the ruinee, never the jerk. Whatever. tbh its p[eople lik you that make me laugh why should i stop havuing my good time killing people so they can have a good time doing missions at the end of the day one of us has to stop and it aint gonna be me so stfu and die wow. i so totally take back everything i said. you absolutely proved me wrong. i stand humbled by your eloquent splendor, sir. maybe you should just, as you say, "stfu" until you learn how to rub two words together 'til they spark into a sentence.... oh man someone has bad mouthed my english better petision better yet i will quit :P
Kynoch	Posted - 2004.04.09 21:32:00 - [102] ...Sounds to me like this guy doesnt have enough sack to go head to a part of space where he can get challenging PVP. Contrary to what some of the Empire gate gankers think, ambushing a person that is either unable to retaliate or is engaged like this player was, is not PVP....it just lame. Why not go camp a gate in 0.0...A2 is a nice plase for PVP action...oh that would envolve risk and would need skill and capability, obviously in short supply from this person.
fugazii	Posted - 2004.04.10 03:58:00 - [103] is it really that hard to click ona diff target to fire on them? fighting a couple 4k npc's shouldnt be that intense ofa fight that u cant lock me (if i wasnt locked when i locked u)and click on my lil icon to be able to fire on me, and since these people r doing combat missions they shoudld be set-up for combat especially since its a .4. u get ganked flat out ur fault ur mistake, learn through loss. and inconstant moon jst cuz im not the best typer not the best speller has absolutely nothin to do w/ne thing easy to talk crap on forums but why never on ur frequent pass throughs in aunenen? but i guess thats how it goes easy to talk big when not directly talked back to and yes my bio looks like crap ill admit it but most is versus from some of my fav songs so to someone who doesnt know the songs it looks like incoherent ramblings of an escaped mental patient
Osceola	Posted - 2004.04.10 09:26:00 - [104] Vorax, Welcome to Eve. Now, Grow some balls, find some friends, protect yourselves and come back in 6 months. Doctor's orders. Osceola Evolutionary Thug Osceola Evolutionary Thug
Alpha Centauri	Posted - 2004.04.10 10:52:00 - [105] Edited by: Alpha Centauri on 10/04/2004 11:06:14 Edited by: Alpha Centauri on 10/04/2004 11:04:18 I can agree with Vorax here about the difference between PvP style games where you 'earn' your skill by practice, to this game... where you earn your skill on a time line in the form of skill packs. Combat in FPS games involves skillful control of either joystick (for jets/choppers in DC, BF1942) or mouse. In this game all you do is turn on your guns and wait to see who wins, you might decide to turn on and off a few otehr modules, click on a few other targets, but other than that you can get a monkey to play this game, the control mechanism is for morons and idiots alike who are incapable of playing a game that involves real skill.. PLAYER EARNED SKILL THROUGH PRACTICE, such as a game like PvP. I must say Vorax, you will not find any real skillful players in this game as I say.. the skills are on a time line and you have to buy them. There is no dodging and ducking, diving from enemy fire, there is no 'fair way' to engage someone in a fight unless they have the same ship/set up as you. FPS games will always be better than this 3rd person, 'skills on a timer' crap. If you want some real space combat, I would play elite which even had a rudimentary FPS style simulator control of the ships. or... wait for http://www.eschaton-online.com which will be much better for FPS people who prefer to use real skill than 'skills on a timer'.
Atandros	Posted - 2004.04.10 15:05:00 - [106] Quote: Quote: Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 09/04/2004 15:11:58 Quote: Quote: Seriously. All the rah-rah from the Darwinists is fine and good, but why, when the actual griefers themselves show, are they always incoherent kiddies? The folks trying to defend this behaviour in a rational way are not, in fact, doing it themselves, are they? Most of them just seem to have mission to inist that if someone else's good time is ruined by a jerk, it's the fault of the ruinee, never the jerk. Whatever. tbh its p[eople lik you that make me laugh why should i stop havuing my good time killing people so they can have a good time doing missions at the end of the day one of us has to stop and it aint gonna be me so stfu and die wow. i so totally take back everything i said. you absolutely proved me wrong. i stand humbled by your eloquent splendor, sir. maybe you should just, as you say, "stfu" until you learn how to rub two words together 'til they spark into a sentence.... oh man someone has bad mouthed my english better petision better yet i will quit :P No, he just delineated your primitivity, idiocy and simplistic view of the world; your linguistic skill as such is irrelevant here. You've perfectly proved his point. On the note of Darwinism, BH, I largely agree with your observation. But here's my personal viewpoint on this whole potpourri. I'm a hardcore PVPer, on all levels, not just the blowing ships up one. But I'm not a griefer, ie, I only desire to PVP with fully consenting and informed players; my goal isn't to 0wNz0r someone or anything such, but simply to fight a challenging opponent, which is why I play Eve - no other game allows for PVP on such a scale and on so many levels. However, when PVP becomes griefing, ie when it comes to fighting someone way out of my league, or unwilling, or uninformed, I'm stopping (and reimbursing, if any damage is already done). So, I'm in support of Darwinism, but only if all participants are informed and consenting. If you're out to cause grief for its own sake, you've got issues really.
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2004.04.10 15:08:00 - [107] Mission Breifing: "Quickly, a person of great import has been kidnapped, and their abductors are fleeing from the scene. With great haste you must find them and save the person of great import, before they are processed into biomass or executed in a great grizzly manner! Here is where we think they may be. Hurry, quickly!" 20 jumps and five minutes later... "I have reached the secret location! Now to... My *** it's full of battleships." pop Just one more reason for me to put mission running on ice. I was getting kind of tired of the "ten jump in ten minute or your picking up bits of bodies" missions already. Though I will have to bum that mission bookmark off of Vorax once I've gotten myself into a nicely kitted out Battleship. I could use some decent PvP exp, and I figure poping some real rats should do nicely. Even if the Red Dawn doesn't work as well as I'm thinking it could, I doubt a rat will pose to much of a threat. Harry Voyager
Vandal	Posted - 2004.04.10 19:19:00 - [108] Heh carebears... This Forum disgusts me. Nice work fug
Visera	Posted - 2004.04.10 19:30:00 - [109] Hahaha........I could only hope to have a 6 page thread about me....that would be so cool.....even if it is bad which i hope it would be.....i almost envy fug for this.....my day shall come.....and for all of you who agree that it is wrong or unskilled to camp a mission spawn i have one tip.....watch your every move if there is a pirate in the system...and for those of you who are to stupid to click show info, u deserve to get attacked....all i can say is, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen! catch ya'll later Visera I'm sorry....did I pod you?
Kynoch	Posted - 2004.04.11 03:28:00 - [110] Quote: Heh carebears... This Forum disgusts me. Nice work fug Ha ha! Your funny....Retard....Anyway why not come out to Delve and hunt me mr. Carebear Exterminator....Im a carebear, then you can talk ****e all you want.
Makeh	Posted - 2004.04.11 04:59:00 - [111] Quote: I want to know how such a corporation like Carebear Exterminators have been granted membership in C4 alliance? Its simply were not a nubby.. like u killer clown alt ------------------- QUOTES OF TEH MONTH Loadmaster > its players like you that makes me want to quit EVE Masta Killa > I'll insta to agil and get my intie and then come back and pod you
Vandal	Posted - 2004.04.11 05:42:00 - [112] Seems you have alot of similar posts out there Mr."carebear" Kynoch I found this one aswell Quote: Im a carebear...come get me....please. I hang out in Delve....Im vulnerable to griefing. Quit bickering your nonsense. -Vandal
Kynoch	Posted - 2004.04.11 06:21:00 - [113] Quote: Seems you have alot of similar posts out there Mr."carebear" Kynoch I found this one aswell Quote: Im a carebear...come get me....please. I hang out in Delve....Im vulnerable to griefing. Quit bickering your nonsense. -Vandal Lol! You see, I cant get anyone to play with me! Lots of bad talk from noob killers. Why not take a chance and hunt more dangerous game.
Vandal	Posted - 2004.04.11 06:34:00 - [114] Edited by: Vandal on 11/04/2004 06:37:30 ... you assume im a noob killer? come to my home... If you make it past the gate into 0.0
Kynoch	Posted - 2004.04.11 06:40:00 - [115] Where ya live?... I may come visit...sounds nice there. Likewise..come to beautiful Delve region you may not make it past the first 0.0 gate either.
Vandal	Posted - 2004.04.11 07:27:00 - [116] It doesnt seem your to far from me.. I will come play soon enough my friend. Although we may want to take it out of our regions into nuetral areas. Till then goodbye
mafish	Posted - 2004.04.11 10:23:00 - [117] your primitivity, idiocy and simplistic view of the world my views are only idiotic because they are not you views i could turn around and say the same about most other posts hear because i dont agree with them
Isiana	Posted - 2004.04.11 10:39:00 - [118] in before lock Carebear\|Me Alts
MrMojo	Posted - 2004.04.11 11:12:00 - [119] Quote: I can agree with Vorax here about the difference between PvP style games where you 'earn' your skill by practice, to this game... where you earn your skill on a time line in the form of skill packs. Combat in FPS games involves skillful control of either joystick (for jets/choppers in DC, BF1942) or mouse. In this game all you do is turn on your guns and wait to see who wins, you might decide to turn on and off a few otehr modules, click on a few other targets, but other than that you can get a monkey to play this game, the control mechanism is for morons and idiots alike who are incapable of playing a game that involves real skill.. PLAYER EARNED SKILL THROUGH PRACTICE, such as a game like PvP. I must say Vorax, you will not find any real skillful players in this game as I say.. the skills are on a time line and you have to buy them. There is no dodging and ducking, diving from enemy fire, there is no 'fair way' to engage someone in a fight unless they have the same ship/set up as you. FPS games will always be better than this 3rd person, 'skills on a timer' crap. If you want some real space combat, I would play elite which even had a rudimentary FPS style simulator control of the ships. or... wait for http://www.eschaton-online.com which will be much better for FPS people who prefer to use real skill than 'skills on a timer'. you really have no grasp of this game at all do you? comparing this to FPS is like comparing beer to cheese this game isnt about Freelancer/Elite style flying simulation - it isnt about reflex and dexterity why the hell you are even trying to play Eve when u have that mind set is beyond me go away... warm up your brain cells... actually think before you post... then maybe you can voice an opinion and btw - this is the 1st mmorpg i have played coming from an "fps" background (quakes 1,2,3, CS, UT etc etc) and i have never once managed to think "oh this isnt like playing Call of Duty or UT2003 or etc etc"
CodeFreeze	Posted - 2004.04.11 11:49:00 - [120] Edited by: CodeFreeze on 11/04/2004 11:56:18 Quote: Internet arguements are like the Special Olympics... If you win your still a RETARD You can't even get the grammar right in your sig! Who's the retard eh? PS it's also deeply offensive to disabled people. Un the boards I hang out in you'd have been banned a long time ago.
Kynoch	Posted - 2004.04.11 16:22:00 - [121] Quote: It doesnt seem your to far from me.. I will come play soon enough my friend. Although we may want to take it out of our regions into nuetral areas. Till then goodbye Heheheheh....now Im feelin' the love! Catch ya later...
Vandal	Posted - 2004.04.11 18:08:00 - [122] Yea i feel the love too. You need to get other people to do your dirty work now?... Anyone who didnt like it, sorry about the sig I wasnt thinking... Anyhow.. wtf is this? I got new friends now =) ------------------------------------------------------------ Channelname: Local Listener: Vandal Session started: 2004.04.11 16:59:13 ------------------------------------------------------------ [ 2004.04.11 17:00:05 ] cptn Gingerbeard > hey vandal [ 2004.04.11 17:00:11 ] cptn Gingerbeard > i have a message 4 u [ 2004.04.11 17:00:54 ] Vandal > whats up? [ 2004.04.11 17:01:04 ] cptn Gingerbeard > Vandal your challenge has been heard and met. Tread lightly, keep yoru eyes on the scanner. We are now hunting you and will get you when you least expect it. You will not be able to run nor hide for long. We want to place your body in a container and let the newbs laugh at you. Consider yourself hunted by the courtesy of the Bladerunners [ 2004.04.11 17:01:48 ] Vandal > LOL [ 2004.04.11 17:01:57 ] cptn Gingerbeard > :) [ 2004.04.11 17:02:19 ] Vandal > what are you in? [ 2004.04.11 17:02:21 ] cptn Gingerbeard > i am at the o2 gate [ 2004.04.11 17:02:44 ] cptn Gingerbeard > btw this a alt [ 2004.04.11 17:03:01 ] Vandal > What "challenge"? [ 2004.04.11 17:03:13 ] cptn Gingerbeard > hold [ 2004.04.11 17:03:53 ] cptn Gingerbeard > Edited by: Vandal on 11/04/2004 06:37:30 ... you assume im a noob killer? come to my home... If you make it past the gate into 0.0 [ 2004.04.11 17:05:04 ] Vandal > LOL are you the guy that was on the thread.. his alt or are you guys teaming up on me? [ 2004.04.11 17:05:37 ] cptn Gingerbeard > neather i am just delivering u a message [ 2004.04.11 17:06:35 ] Vandal > so Blade runners huh?? [ 2004.04.11 17:06:47 ] cptn Gingerbeard > yes [ 2004.04.11 17:06:59 ] cptn Gingerbeard > i need podding [ 2004.04.11 17:09:53 ] cptn Gingerbeard > lol [ 2004.04.11 17:10:18 ] cptn Gingerbeard > how meany missile have u got? [ 2004.04.11 17:10:23 ] Vandal > ... [ 2004.04.11 17:10:33 ] Vandal > enough to shoot all day [ 2004.04.11 17:10:44 ] cptn Gingerbeard > st [ 2004.04.11 17:11:16 ] Vandal > come play [ 2004.04.11 17:11:39 ] Vandal > T-zfid [ 2004.04.11 17:11:39 ] cptn Gingerbeard > ye ok save me like 65 jumps [ 2004.04.11 17:12:22 ] cptn Gingerbeard > just remmber we will hunt and find u [ 2004.04.11 17:13:01 ] Vandal > better bring a F*ING calvary [ 2004.04.11 17:13:12 ] cptn Gingerbeard > pfff [ 2004.04.11 17:13:21 ] cptn Gingerbeard > blades are the cavalry [ 2004.04.11 17:13:35 ] Vandal > Oh ok [ 2004.04.11 17:13:57 ] cptn Gingerbeard > come on then [ 2004.04.11 17:14:01 ] Vandal > your lucky its Easter im surprised you made it this far [ 2004.04.11 17:14:14 ] cptn Gingerbeard > hahahha Well I am looking foward to seeing you "vigilantes" Although i was only originally looking for a fair duel in an undisclosed area. --Vandal
Kynoch	Posted - 2004.04.11 18:17:00 - [123] Quote: Yea i feel the love too. You need to get other people to do your dirty work now?... Anyone who didnt like it, sorry about the sig I wasnt thinking... Anyhow.. wtf is this? I got new friends now =) ------------------------------------------------------------ Channelname: Local Listener: Vandal Session started: 2004.04.11 16:59:13 ------------------------------------------------------------ [ 2004.04.11 17:00:05 ] cptn Gingerbeard > hey vandal [ 2004.04.11 17:00:11 ] cptn Gingerbeard > i have a message 4 u [ 2004.04.11 17:00:54 ] Vandal > whats up? [ 2004.04.11 17:01:04 ] cptn Gingerbeard > Vandal your challenge has been heard and met. Tread lightly, keep yoru eyes on the scanner. We are now hunting you and will get you when you least expect it. You will not be able to run nor hide for long. We want to place your body in a container and let the newbs laugh at you. Consider yourself hunted by the courtesy of the Bladerunners [ 2004.04.11 17:01:48 ] Vandal > LOL [ 2004.04.11 17:01:57 ] cptn Gingerbeard > :) [ 2004.04.11 17:02:19 ] Vandal > what are you in? [ 2004.04.11 17:02:21 ] cptn Gingerbeard > i am at the o2 gate [ 2004.04.11 17:02:44 ] cptn Gingerbeard > btw this a alt [ 2004.04.11 17:03:01 ] Vandal > What "challenge"? [ 2004.04.11 17:03:13 ] cptn Gingerbeard > hold [ 2004.04.11 17:03:53 ] cptn Gingerbeard > Edited by: Vandal on 11/04/2004 06:37:30 ... you assume im a noob killer? come to my home... If you make it past the gate into 0.0 [ 2004.04.11 17:05:04 ] Vandal > LOL are you the guy that was on the thread.. his alt or are you guys teaming up on me? [ 2004.04.11 17:05:37 ] cptn Gingerbeard > neather i am just delivering u a message [ 2004.04.11 17:06:35 ] Vandal > so Blade runners huh?? [ 2004.04.11 17:06:47 ] cptn Gingerbeard > yes [ 2004.04.11 17:06:59 ] cptn Gingerbeard > i need podding [ 2004.04.11 17:09:53 ] cptn Gingerbeard > lol [ 2004.04.11 17:10:18 ] cptn Gingerbeard > how meany missile have u got? [ 2004.04.11 17:10:23 ] Vandal > ... [ 2004.04.11 17:10:33 ] Vandal > enough to shoot all day [ 2004.04.11 17:10:44 ] cptn Gingerbeard > st [ 2004.04.11 17:11:16 ] Vandal > come play [ 2004.04.11 17:11:39 ] Vandal > T-zfid [ 2004.04.11 17:11:39 ] cptn Gingerbeard > ye ok save me like 65 jumps [ 2004.04.11 17:12:22 ] cptn Gingerbeard > just remmber we will hunt and find u [ 2004.04.11 17:13:01 ] Vandal > better bring a F*ING calvary [ 2004.04.11 17:13:12 ] cptn Gingerbeard > pfff [ 2004.04.11 17:13:21 ] cptn Gingerbeard > blades are the cavalry [ 2004.04.11 17:13:35 ] Vandal > Oh ok [ 2004.04.11 17:13:57 ] cptn Gingerbeard > come on then [ 2004.04.11 17:14:01 ] Vandal > your lucky its Easter im surprised you made it this far [ 2004.04.11 17:14:14 ] cptn Gingerbeard > hahahha Well I am looking foward to seeing you "vigilantes" Although i was only originally looking for a fair duel in an undisclosed area. --Vandal Hehehe...I dont know who that person is or their corp. Check me ingame and you will see what corp I belong too. No alliances just a bunch of carebears...hehehe. I do my own dirtywork, I dont have alts that fight..got one that hauls..but that is all. But it sure sounds like other peeps want to play

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