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Danerion
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Posted - 2004.04.07 18:11:00 -
[1]
Well, the topic may lie a little bit but...
Since the "nefantar mining association" mining agents no longer are within my reach i can only run R&D missions on level III agents. Something i dont like to do... all day long...
So, if i want to run ordinary missions with my character do i have to start all over again with a new corp or do CCP plan to inherit the standing's to similiar corps?
Currently i have +8.97 to NMA.
The best alternative agent (not R&D) i can use within NMA is a level II agent with -20 quality.
Is there anything i can do to solve this?
I loose a lot of ISK atm which is pretty anoying.
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Anssett
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Posted - 2004.04.07 18:31:00 -
[2]
They are an Ammatar Faction Corp if I remember correctly (not in-game atm  ) - with such a high rating for them you should have a good Faction standing as well. If you do then you should have better agents with Ammatar Consulate Bureau amd the Ammatar Navy that you can use.
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Verbal Kint
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Posted - 2004.04.07 18:39:00 -
[3]
At the moment all miningAgents are on 'Strike' pending a 'normalization'.
Nothing we can do about it. Dev call to suspend all action on those agents. So try to find another Corp and Agents to work for. It's the only way if you wanna play with agents.
*V.K.*
Verbal Kint - Grumpy ol' c0ot. |
Black January
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Posted - 2004.04.07 19:34:00 -
[4]
You have no idea how much this ****ed me off. Rage is not the word to describe it. About a third of my corporation's miners and haulers were employed working out the logicstics to supply my mining agent with his requests. Completing a steady stream of agent missions was a group effort that took time and skill to maintain. This change didn't just hit me -- it hit everyone in my corporation. It needs to be fixed. And soon.
"Finding another agent" isn't going to cut it. If I can't run agent missions any more chances are I'm just going to go pirate, and probably not just me but those in my corporation who are also out of work because of it. Now is not the time to start over from scratch.
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.04.07 19:42:00 -
[5]
All Mining corp agents are on strike due to player miss managment
-----------------------------------------------
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Plaeto
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Posted - 2004.04.07 19:42:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Plaeto on 07/04/2004 19:43:34
So, Black January, you're saying that your entire corp was supporting your use of the "insta-mission" exploit? Interesting... |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.04.07 19:51:00 -
[7]
 Quote:
Edited by: Plaeto on 07/04/2004 19:43:34
So, Black January, you're saying that your entire corp was supporting your use of the "insta-mission" exploit? Interesting...
My thoughts exactly.
Some people should be really glad I'm not a dev/GM/whatever, cause I would ban your ass so fast...
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Verbal Kint
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Posted - 2004.04.07 20:07:00 -
[8]
How long has this thing been called an exploit?
This is one of the only things in the game that have worked fairly logical till now. A mining agent hires outside sources to help get the minerals... Can't see any problems here except that some players apparantly have missed out on it and are very mad about it. and Cries so loud a Dev hears it and stops it.
Agreed the pricez is a tad high, but compared to going out and have to mine it everytime they are low. Might have capsized the game cause more and more players have started doing them, but for many it has been the only way left to earn some dull isk. As O.O territory are blocked by player pirates making even more isk than these socalled Exploiters did.
and Gariuys I'm very glad you are not. That would probably kill the game off.
*V.K.*
Verbal Kint - Grumpy ol' c0ot. |
Black January
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Posted - 2004.04.07 20:09:00 -
[9]
*I* do missions for Ammatar Fleet. *We* used to do missions as a group for the mining association. If you want to call our teamwork an exploit.. well, you can call an elephant a duck but I don't think it will be quacking for you any time soon.
Our corporation did not exploit the overdue mission exploit this morning. We had an agent which provided the corporation with a major source of income who we, as a collective, did work for. Now we don't. It leaves us out in the cold without anywhere to go.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.04.07 20:26:00 -
[10]
This is *****ing me up, really, You are fecking up the entire system bringing down the average time a missions takes down so much rewards are nerfed to hell and back. You manage to do craploads of missions in hours that takes everyone else days or weeks. Double/triple the value of your ore/minerals. Getting stupid amounts of implants, and tech2 components AND you need a dev to tell you it's a exploit. Ever hear of common sense?
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Tribunal
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Posted - 2004.04.07 20:32:00 -
[11]
Quote:
They're an exploit in comparison with f.ex. courier/trade missions because those missions have a much greater variation of factors such as commodity type and destination location. For the most part, if you do manage to instacomplete a courier/trade mission, you've done that with a fair amount of effort and thus you deserve being allowed to instacomplete. With mining agents however, there's very little effort involved in instacompleting en masse.
This is from Papa Smurf, is that an elephant I hear quacking?
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.04.07 20:34:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Now we don't. It leaves us out in the cold without anywhere to go.
Actually it just means you have to play the same game the rest of us are playing.
If you're after sympathy I think you came to the wrong place.
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Ooke
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Posted - 2004.04.07 20:36:00 -
[13]
it would have been fine...
if the agents were paying out at market value or just above/below, but they were dishing it out at a massive profit, I'm sure all your corp mates have willpower implants too with spares for everyone...
group mining missions would be nice, but we're not going to see anything like that for a while yet if ever.
Ooke: May Contain Nuts |
Black January
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Posted - 2004.04.07 20:41:00 -
[14]
Quote:
This is *****ing me up, really, You are fecking up the entire system bringing down the average time a missions takes down so much rewards are nerfed to hell and back.
You're presuming that the rewards outweigh the costs by staggering amounts. They don't. They are enough to make it worth our time obviously or we wouldn't do them. They aren't making anyone billions of isk. If you'd like to make an argument about time versus reward I suggest taking a look at NPC spawn chaining.
Quote:
You manage to do craploads of missions in hours that takes everyone else days or weeks.
Yes, we do. It also takes us 2-4 days (depending on activity levels) to gather the ore and minerals we spend in an afternoon. Then its back to the asteroid belts.. Completion time isn't just the time it takes me to click "mission completed." It is also a function of logistics: How long does it take us to haul ore out to my agent? And mining: How long does it take us to mine what we spend? If you think in terms of these things, its not an insta-mission. The mission is the culmination of all of our efforts, all of our time, and all of our hard work.
Quote:
Double/triple the value of your ore/minerals.
You've obviously never done mining missions. Its roughly 1.5 times, not counting hauling costs. Mega and zydrine missions are losing propositions. Twice what they are worth is an exaduration. Three times what they are worth is lunacy, stupidity, or both.
Quote:
Getting stupid amounts of implants, and tech2 components
And again, you've obviously never done mining missions. I can't speak for other agents, but the agent we work for does not have any of the tech 2 component missions. I have NEVER gotten a skill book or tech 2 component reward from my level 3 agent. Ever.
Quote:
AND you need a dev to tell you it's a exploit. Ever hear of common sense?
Good question. I suggest introspective reflection on ones self before questioning others.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.04.07 20:44:00 -
[15]
common sense = not advertising the fact that your entire corp was exploiting.
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Danerion
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Posted - 2004.04.07 20:52:00 -
[16]
Quote:
They are an Ammatar Faction Corp if I remember correctly (not in-game atm ) - with such a high rating for them you should have a good Faction standing as well. If you do then you should have better agents with Ammatar Consulate Bureau amd the Ammatar Navy that you can use.
Thank's for the help! You are cuite right concerning the Ammatar agents. The only problem is that these agents are a security-type agents and my best ship is a Maller with standard equipment. So I don't know if I can handle there missions.
The nearest non sevurity agent is 15+ (one way) jumps away from my R&D agent. Before the change I hade a lvl3 non sec. agent in the same station....
I'm in a singleman corp and can't get help from anybody else.
What to do now?
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Eduard
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Posted - 2004.04.07 21:26:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Eduard on 07/04/2004 21:32:54
Quote:
common sense = not advertising the fact that your entire corp was exploiting.
Mork why you are so envious? Why people who play game by your opinion are exploiters? Deep in 0.0 you need work hard for getting ores for agent. Most of agents in 0.0 are from mining or astrosurvey decisions. Thanks to your dumbness now a lot of people are pretty screwed.
If this is way how CCP want people to be in 0.0 then it's really bad approach this will return most of them back. I'd had in my system two good agents I'd missions for both. My mining division agent doesn't give me only instant missions. I had four ore missions and two deliveries with one kill ratio per average. I'd never refuse single mission. Second agent is security agent. I'd missions for both but security is really low quality -14.
I have no chance now than leave 0.0 space and go back to crowded empire space. I'd check your mission's history you declining transport missions and you doing mineral missions. So clean up your own house before you start calling other people exploiters.
You shouldn't call anyone exploiter if you doing it then call yourself exploiters. Fact is your attitude with others did spoil agents for most of people who did enjoy game. Papa Smurf please don't listen to these greedy people, you should listen to majority of people.
We need organize mining party running over 6 hours in our system to get ores for our agents. Not only mining agent want ores because my security agent wants minerals too sometime once per 10 missions. So please shut-up yourself and let people who are disappointed by short sighting of CCP.
Fact is now 2/5 of agents are disabled should we pay 3/5 of subscription because 2/5 of game is disabled now? I think no. Please make fast solution because level 4 agents are promised over two months and we still see nothing game getting staled in agents.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.04.07 22:09:00 -
[18]
Why would I have any need or reason to be envious?
Quote:
Papa Smurf please don't listen to these greedy people, you should listen to majority of people.
He should and has plugged an exploit. CCP decide what is an exploit remember. It was detailed an exploit a month ago...and again yesterday and again today, by CCP.
The only "greedy people" i can see are those complaining here that their infinite ready-sell market and insta-income has been cut off.
So their easy life has been bought in line with everybody else, coping with agent missions as intended and not reaping the ISK from an obvious and blatant exploitation of the system.
Here's afreebie though: Anytime anybody tells me of an exploit, or a possible exploit, I will go out of my way to ensure that CCP know all about it and those partaking of it, so that CCP know about it and can decide on the issue as they see fit.
You have an issue with it - take it up with them sunbeam.
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Eduard
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Posted - 2004.04.07 22:11:00 -
[19]
Mork I'm pointing that if you call someone exploiters then you alone is exploiter too... I'd check your mission history.
I still think it isn't any kind of exploit most of us never did refuse any single mission why we are penalized because some greedy people like you did it?
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.04.07 22:14:00 -
[20]
Quote:
Mork I'm pointing that if you call someone exploiters then you alone is exploiter too... I'd check your mission history.
I still think it isn't any kind of exploit most of us never did refuse any single mission why we are penalized because some greedy people like you did it?
I dont need to check it - but I welcome anybody else to.
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Qinglong
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Posted - 2004.04.07 22:14:00 -
[21]
Just my two cents on the subject.
Recently a lot of people convo me to acquire one of my office in NEW CALDARI - MATIGU - Poksu Mineral Group. Offer was growing and growing .. finally I sold it for 50M and the reason why so many people want this office so much.
here after the log of the discussion (I Just erase the name of the buyer):
Quote:
Qinglong > k ... I take my cargo and go there
Qinglong > May be later when you have it you may explain me why so many people want this office ... I received 3 contact this week ??
****** > Sure ill tell you why i need it... when i get it
...<cut out of the subject>...
Qinglong > may be you may explain me why so many need an office here ?
****** > Well the reson is. that is a lvl 3 mining agent here
****** > We have about 10 members doing agent missions for him and we get about 250-500 mill per day
Qinglong > ok
****** > if you organize the agent group you can supply all ore and minerals in hangers and then they dont have to go out of the station
250 to 500 M ISK by day  ... I do not know if it is true or not ... the guy looks kind and serious about it ...
I think that winning so many in one day in 1.0 space probably change the balance of power in the area between corps which use the exploit and corps which don't ...
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.04.07 22:16:00 -
[22]
Black January: I'm talking about the fact that papa keeps track of how long it takes everybody in EVE to complete the average mission you where bringing that down, whehter or not it has affected anything I do not know. But it's bad whatever you look at it.
Mining has it's reward already the value of the minerals, this does not need increasing through a big black hole to sink minerals in when there is a shortage of roids throughout empire, and you're part of the cause of that problem. IF you wanna increase the value of what you mine, mine better ores.
Take a look at my bloody standings ( like I did with you ) never done missions, there are few people in EVE that (without exploiting) have done as many missions as I have ( 1600+ since Castor some 500 before Castor ) I know what the rewards for mining missions are. And whether it's 10% or 200% it's profit with 0 effort.
So you got a crap agent, sorry but the fact that you had some bad luck picking the agent to exploit doesn't mean it's any less an exploit.
What you're missing here is the quite simple fact that even without the profits you're making off the ores/minerals that you are permanently removing from the economy ( which is a BAD BAD thing, roid distrubition is balanced based of certain assumptions, like most of it goes into player production, some into npc corp buy orders ( CCP controlled ) and some goes to agents, you where messing that up bigtime. Ignoring the fact that you are causing a influx of implants into the game that was not intended ( and you damn well know it ). You are also getting something that takes ever other agent runner ages too achieve and that's high standings.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.04.07 22:20:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Just my two cents on the subject.
Recently a lot of people convo me to acquire one of my office in NEW CALDARI - MATIGU - Poksu Mineral Group. Offer was growing and growing .. finally I sold it for 50M and the reason why so many people want this office so much.
here after the log of the discussion (I Just erase the name of the buyer):
Quote:
Qinglong > k ... I take my cargo and go there
Qinglong > May be later when you have it you may explain me why so many people want this office ... I received 3 contact this week ??
****** > Sure ill tell you why i need it... when i get it
...<cut out of the subject>...
Qinglong > may be you may explain me why so many need an office here ?
****** > Well the reson is. that is a lvl 3 mining agent here
****** > We have about 10 members doing agent missions for him and we get about 250-500 mill per day
Qinglong > ok
****** > if you organize the agent group you can supply all ore and minerals in hangers and then they dont have to go out of the station
250 to 500 M ISK by day ... I do not know if it is true or not ... the guy looks kind and serious about it ...
I think that winning so many in one day in 1.0 space probably change the balance of power in the area between corps which use the exploit and corps which don't ...
I don't see any reason to doubt this, you don't take such drastic measures to fix something if it's not being exploited in a huge scale.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Feral
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Posted - 2004.04.07 22:21:00 -
[24]
Lets see. Papasmurf posted over a month ago that the devs considered spamming mining agents for instamissions was an exploit. For whatever reason, fixing it got overlooked till now. In the mean time you people have been using it to its fullest potential. (This next bit is a little assumption on my part, so I may be wrong) You have been busy strip mining every belt in empire space to feed your mining agent with minerals, while using a known AND STATED exploit. Now, the devs plug the flaw, and you all start whining and blaming those of us who raised the issue recently for "destroying the game". Please, get real. I have been happily running my non-mining agents. I have earned nigh on 200mill in the last 6 weeks, and that doesnt even include loot from kill missions, tech2 components, or skills. So please, stop telling us how your income has been destroyed, and adapt to the new environment.
Oh yeah, and incidentaly, you may want to re-read the EULA. Very first line is...
ESRB Notice: Game Experience May Change During Online Play
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Eduard
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Posted - 2004.04.07 22:22:00 -
[25]
Really true is some people did abuse mining agents in empire space, but people who live in 0.0 has no chance to buy any of ores so they need work before they could fullfill mining agents missions.
Another fact is that stations in 0.0 space are rare so we have not so much agents to pick on. Now actually we are cut-off close to extinct. So we have two options leave game or get back into empire. This is pain death for EVE comunity and 0.0 space. Papa Smurf should thing twice before he did what he did. Without replacement with new agents (any) will make 0.0 even more death space.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.04.07 22:28:00 -
[26]
I like the way it went from "some people might have exploited it" to being all my fault.
Nice one. 
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Knefru Khamen
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Posted - 2004.04.07 22:41:00 -
[27]
This shouldn't be called an 'exploit', in my opinion. How about 'poor mission design'? Fix the missions. Create more missions. Get rid of worthless rewards. But don't call people stockpiling minerals 'exploiters' when the blame lies on the development side of the game.
Note that I exclusively use manufacturing agents so I never profited from any mining agents.
---
Ad honorem,
Knefru Khamen
Omnia mea mecum porto. |
Feral
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Posted - 2004.04.07 22:51:00 -
[28]
Quote:
This shouldn't be called an 'exploit', in my opinion. How about 'poor mission design'? Fix the missions. Create more missions. Get rid of worthless rewards. But don't call people stockpiling minerals 'exploiters' when the blame lies on the development side of the game.
You are quite accurate in your statement. However, this is an exploit simply because that is how the devs have defined it.
To those who have been claiming that Morkt is responsible for this change... I'll quite happily admit to being the one that actually restarted the debate on this issue recently, not Morkt.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.04.07 22:54:00 -
[29]
Quote:
This shouldn't be called an 'exploit', in my opinion. How about 'poor mission design'? Fix the missions. Create more missions. Get rid of worthless rewards. But don't call people stockpiling minerals 'exploiters' when the blame lies on the development side of the game.
The issue isn't about doing the odd insta-mission. its not about turning down the odd mission. its not about doing mining missions.
What it is about is doing massive numbers of insta-missions and turning down everything that can't be done instantly.
Now - i could go down to thelevel of others and name some names where people can look up pages upon pages upon pages of multiple insta-missions per minute only interupted by declining anything that meant leaving the station.
But for anybody with either half a brain or actually, god forbid, honestly curoius enough to research the issue, they would already know both the scale and numbers who were doing it.
In the meantime, as always, others inevitably suffer.
I have no doubts at all that some people using mining agents never even considered the scale of abuse that some have done.
Show me the bit where CCP foregoe any and all control on exploitation of a system to coddle the ego's of a few hard-core exploiters bent on amassing as much isk as possible before their golden goose was squashed though.
I'm just not seeing the bit thats supposedly *wrong*.
Here's a clue - go look up Poksu corp..and find a new caldari agent and his players - then take a good long look at some of that agents players transactions.
Anybody who can say they cant see an exploit there.. well.. whatever.
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Knefru Khamen
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Posted - 2004.04.08 01:05:00 -
[30]
Exploiting is what the idiots in Yulai did by taking advantage of faulty Concord programming. Having stockpiles of minerals is not exploiting.
Any developer with "half a brain" should have recognized that asking for minerals + no delay between missions to be undesirable.
I want to state that people should have known better and regulated their behaviors. But people will always do the wrong thing given the chance. This, however, was not an exploit by my definition.
---
Ad honorem,
Knefru Khamen
Omnia mea mecum porto. |
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