Originally by: Amateratsu

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Can any enlightened market analists explain the massive drop in price of Tech II?

for example, couple months ago command ships were selling at over 200m. Now you can pick up a Sleipnir for a mere 124m, a drop of 38%.

Yet prices of the raw materials needed to build the TII construction componants appear to have remained steady.

Is it just a case of over supply and players selling at below invention/production costs just to keep ahead of the competition? Or is there something else going on?

Would be interested to hear others thoughts, to satisfy my curiosity

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Originally by: Amateratsu

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Can any enlightened market analists explain the massive drop in price of Tech II?

for example, couple months ago command ships were selling at over 200m. Now you can pick up a Sleipnir for a mere 124m, a drop of 38%.

Yet prices of the raw materials needed to build the TII construction componants appear to have remained steady.

Is it just a case of over supply and players selling at below invention/production costs just to keep ahead of the competition? Or is there something else going on?

Would be interested to hear others thoughts, to satisfy my curiosity

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Originally by: Valan

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They will drop much lower we have the 'it's free' crowd now. They sell ships for less than it costs to build them.

They think minerals and things like datacores are free. They don't factor these into the cost of building.

I have a feeling most of these people are the isk sellers as they don't value time and need to churn the isk over quickly and will therefore constantly undercut.

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Originally by: Rachel Vend

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... with 100% reliability in most cases ...

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Originally by: 000Hunter000

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Tbh, it is going more and more to the part where there is no longer a monopoly on T2 goods, now the monopoly lies with those that moonmine the rare moonresources that are needed to create the advanced materials that are needed to build T2 parts.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: 000Hunter000

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Tbh, it is going more and more to the part where there is no longer a monopoly on T2 goods, now the monopoly lies with those that moonmine the rare moonresources that are needed to create the advanced materials that are needed to build T2 parts.

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Then there will be more sweet tears when CCP unlock the 0.4 sec moons ;o)

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Let's all take a moment to review the flavour of those sweet, sweet forum-tears cried by the T2 BPO owners a year ago.

Remember them, the ones who were saying there "wasn't all that much profit" in being a T2 BPO owner?

And now prices are 60-90% lower almost across the board. And that level is set from invented BPCs with negative ME.


mmmm... tasty tears.

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Originally by: Claude Lewis

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Let's all take a moment to review the flavour of those sweet, sweet forum-tears cried by the T2 BPO owners a year ago.

Remember them, the ones who were saying there "wasn't all that much profit" in being a T2 BPO owner?

And now prices are 60-90% lower almost across the board. And that level is set from invented BPCs with negative ME.


mmmm... tasty tears.

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"that level is set from invented BPCs with negative ME" - still WAY above build cost for positive ME BPOs.

To be honest you've just shown yourself out as being bitter about never getting a T2 BPO with this comical little statement.

The only people i hear whining about T2 prices not being high enough are inventers. The ones who have driven the prices so low they cant break even, cutting their own throats 4tw!!

besides, who do you think fueled the increase in complex reaction prices? oo maybe guys who had been making 90-60% more on t2 modules and ships before invention and had a stack of money to throw into setting up mooon mining chains?

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Originally by: Amateratsu

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Unless they have a means to aquire the raw materials at heavily discounted prices

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Originally by: Amateratsu

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Can any enlightened market analists explain the massive drop in price of Tech II?

for example, couple months ago command ships were selling at over 200m. Now you can pick up a Sleipnir for a mere 124m, a drop of 38%.

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Originally by: Valan

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If myself an Ardent are correct then this doesn't bode well for EVE.

80% of EVE are in high sec a lot of those are industry characters. If the market is crashed below profitability by isk sellers there is a large portion of the EVE universe suddenly out of the picture.

If I was CCP I would come up with some software monitoring to see where the isk is going form the prolific under sellers. Bannage!

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Originally by: Amateratsu

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This example says it all...

Raptor (Caldari Interceptor)

Perfect ME build cost approx 6m (if you buy the componants off the market)
Invented BPC -5 ME build cost approx 10m (ignoring cost of inventing the bpc's)

Current Jita price for a Raptor...... 5.9m

Not a lot one can say to that....

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Originally by: Valan

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Edited by: Valan on 09/03/2008 18:31:47
So people are building Raptors below cost because there is no demand?!?!?!?

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Originally by: 7ever

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Edited by: 7ever on 09/03/2008 18:54:32
A bigger problem than all of you are realizing is the Moon Material cost. Dysprosium for one (Promethium for two) has increased 10 fold since last summer and 90% of all of these moons are currently held by RA (the russians). This is their new complex isk making whoring scheme and they are raping people for the stuff.

CCP needs to release T2 harvesters & open up 0.4 and do something about the balance of high end moon mats to end this problem.

Cost of Absolution last summer off the jita market = 65 mil, cost now = 110 mil (OUCH!!!) This is with the BPO, not invention.

The drop in ship prices is due to the long and drawn out war and the fact that CCP still has done nothing about insurance. People are not buying T2 as much anymore, as BS's in fleet are insurable and the cost of BS sized t2 mods are cheap enough to negate the reasoning to buy a smaller t2 ship. The market normally goes through this type of cycle and the t2 market eventually increases, but because of the moon mat problem, manufacturers are desperate to have enough isk to buy the next months supply to keep building.

In end, something needs to be done about moon mat abundancy, t2 harvesters, insurance and moon monopolies in order to restore balance to the t2 market. This is not an invention problem, as they are capped at making money and will always allow t2 bpo owners to make isk.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that CCP's stupid Jump freighters are completely ripping a hole in the t2 component market. YOU INTRODUCED MOON MAT CONSUMERS ON THE MARKET WITHOUT INCREASING SUPPLY YOU MORONS!! (to CCP).

Anyways, it'll be 6mo-12mo before CCP realizes wtf is going on and makes a fix that probably will be too little of a fix or too much of a fix.

THE END.

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Originally by: 7ever

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Edited by: 7ever on 09/03/2008 18:54:32
A bigger problem than all of you are realizing is the Moon Material cost. Dysprosium for one (Promethium for two) has increased 10 fold since last summer and 90% of all of these moons are currently held by RA (the russians). This is their new complex isk making whoring scheme and they are raping people for the stuff.

CCP needs to release T2 harvesters & open up 0.4 and do something about the balance of high end moon mats to end this problem.

Cost of Absolution last summer off the jita market = 65 mil, cost now = 110 mil (OUCH!!!) This is with the BPO, not invention.

The drop in ship prices is due to the long and drawn out war and the fact that CCP still has done nothing about insurance. People are not buying T2 as much anymore, as BS's in fleet are insurable and the cost of BS sized t2 mods are cheap enough to negate the reasoning to buy a smaller t2 ship. The market normally goes through this type of cycle and the t2 market eventually increases, but because of the moon mat problem, manufacturers are desperate to have enough isk to buy the next months supply to keep building.

In end, something needs to be done about moon mat abundancy, t2 harvesters, insurance and moon monopolies in order to restore balance to the t2 market. This is not an invention problem, as they are capped at making money and will always allow t2 bpo owners to make isk.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that CCP's stupid Jump freighters are completely ripping a hole in the t2 component market. YOU INTRODUCED MOON MAT CONSUMERS ON THE MARKET WITHOUT INCREASING SUPPLY YOU MORONS!! (to CCP).

Anyways, it'll be 6mo-12mo before CCP realizes wtf is going on and makes a fix that probably will be too little of a fix or too much of a fix.

THE END.

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Originally by: 7ever

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A bigger problem than all of you are realizing is the Moon Material cost. Dysprosium for one (Promethium for two) has increased 10 fold since last summer and 90% of all of these moons are currently held by RA (the russians). This is their new complex isk making whoring scheme and they are raping people for the stuff.

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Originally by: Vyktor Abyss

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Women and children ONLY to the lifeboats at this stage please...

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Originally by: Gangus

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Originally by: Vyktor Abyss

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Women and children ONLY to the lifeboats at this stage please...

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I think that's all you'll find among this bunch of whiners.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Let's all take a moment to review the flavour of those sweet, sweet forum-tears cried by the T2 BPO owners a year ago.

Remember them, the ones who were saying there "wasn't all that much profit" in being a T2 BPO owner?

And now prices are 60-90% lower almost across the board. And that level is set from invented BPCs with negative ME.

mmmm... tasty tears.

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Originally by: Tellenta

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I would guess its the effect of the t2 monopoly being broken, and perceived cost is moving towards actual cost. Thats about it.

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: Tellenta

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I would guess its the effect of the t2 monopoly being broken, and perceived cost is moving towards actual cost. Thats about it.

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the monopoly however might be shifting places, with how the resources from moon mining are mostly concentrated in the hands of a few entities.

so we went from a bpo monopoly to a materials monopoly.


this is a bit speculative however.

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: Tellenta

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I would guess its the effect of the t2 monopoly being broken, and perceived cost is moving towards actual cost. Thats about it.

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the monopoly however might be shifting places, with how the resources from moon mining are mostly concentrated in the hands of a few entities.

so we went from a bpo monopoly to a materials monopoly.


this is a bit speculative however.

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Originally by: Tellenta

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: Tellenta

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I would guess its the effect of the t2 monopoly being broken, and perceived cost is moving towards actual cost. Thats about it.

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the monopoly however might be shifting places, with how the resources from moon mining are mostly concentrated in the hands of a few entities.

so we went from a bpo monopoly to a materials monopoly.


this is a bit speculative however.

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I don't see the direct comparison as moon mining can be done by anyone with a will and a way. The T2 BPO monopoly was a system contrived by CCP that gave all the power of production to the few that were lucky enough to win the auction. <I neither invent, or own a t2 bpo, or moon mine just fyi>

This just looks like standard decrease in prices due to more people producing the same thing, and the willingness to not price gouge as hard as they used to. True the possibility of a material shortage or a percieved material shortage driving up prices but thats just how things go.

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Originally by: Grimpak

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the decrease on prices happens yes, but it's still easy to manipulate, considering how many entities can supply the materials. (more specifically the most rare ones like the case of dysprosium)

so as Danton said, the monopoly is still there. it's just that is less visible now, due to the very own nature of the moon materials distribution.

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Originally by: Kylar Renpurs

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To the above complainers about T2 moon mineral supplies/suppliers.

You do realise there's actually no problem right? The market is plentiful in supply, most of 0.0 is not utilised.

February was my worst month profit wise, with product prices dropping about 5% every week. Got the production charts to prove it too. In fact... Jita Spot prices each week.

(prices in order of Week 1, 2, 3, 4 of February, week 1 of march in bold)

Titanium Carbide 139, 140, 125, 113, 87
Crystalline Carbonide 185, 128, 110, 96, 96
Tungsten Carbide 80, 77, 70, 70, 70
Fernite Carbide 95, 96, 90, 89, 89
Fullerides 587, 600, 480, 425, 410
Ferrogel 25410, 24200, 24200, 23700, 21400
Fermionic Condensates 31100, 42000, 40600, 40600, 47200
Hypersynaptic Fibers 6350, 6300, 6050, 6050, 7200
Phenolic Composites 625, 545, 550, 485, 455
Nanotransistors 948, 1024, 980, 950, 950
Sylramic Fibers 185, 170, 161, 145, 140

The plunge is because the more common, cheaper materials were speculated far too highly. Crystalline Carbonide and Titanium have both dropped almost 50% in price, Sylramics, Phenolics, Fullerides have dropped about 25% and most of the others are "about right", and are spiking (see things like fermionics) with manipulators and speculators testing the waters to see if they can go higher. But that'll settle soon, these things resolve themselves sometimes as quickly as a couple days.

T2 battleships was always going to cause a spike in prices, more amplified in rarer materials for that very reason, they are rare. But Trinity saw a huge spike in ALL material prices, and that's deflated since, pretty expected. Now instead of all T2 components costing the same, there is a large spread in the prices, and this isn't an issue IMO. Just coz the BPO costs the same shouldn't mean the gross cost to manufacture is the same.

Perhaps it's even the result of people retooling because they've thrown the Dyspro situation in the "Too hard" basket and are just abandoning the higher ends, focussing on lower end reaction and flooding that market.

Regardless, my argument still stands. There is no problem with the amount of moons seeded. Trinity changed the landscape a bit. The price drop is the market realising where prices for most items should be.

FYI, I don't own a high end moon (or any moons for that matter) so this isn't one of those "I make money off it so don't change it" things.

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Originally by: Tellenta

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Originally by: Grimpak

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the decrease on prices happens yes, but it's still easy to manipulate, considering how many entities can supply the materials. (more specifically the most rare ones like the case of dysprosium)

so as Danton said, the monopoly is still there. it's just that is less visible now, due to the very own nature of the moon materials distribution.

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I'll have to take your word for that, as a non-player in moon mining and the distinct lack of interest of fueling a pos EVER again I give my sympathies to those that spend that much time and effort to impart a moon mineral monopoly grab.

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Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk

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i'm not a very good gambler

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