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mahj
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.03.09 13:28:00 -
[1]
Edited by: mahj on 09/03/2008 13:32:51 Edited by: mahj on 09/03/2008 13:31:46 There is no benefit to hunting pirates in this game. Why? The bounty system is borked, NPCs dont seem to care if a player is -10 or not, you can still have a +10 rating to a npc faction,and be -10 pirate just not be in there space? When you buy the game it says you can be a bounty hunter, but due to game mechanics its unworkable and unprofitable.If CCP needs some ideas to get this game play working. I got some.give a bonus to +standings like access to a great ship, make good players be able to be officers in concord or factions. A special skill to call concord backup once a day or somthing. not uber of course.there must be many more incentives i havent thought of to make the game more balanced between yar and defenders of the empire. seems like the game is all about being bad the last few years, time for a change.
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PhantomVyper
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.09 14:08:00 -
[2]
So what is the reward for beeing a bad guy?!
You loose sec-status AND NPC standings if you happen to commit a crime near a station or gate.
You are incapable of entering high-sec as soon as you hit -5 and to top it all of, everyone can attack you anywhere without concord or gate guns intervening!
So if a pirate-hunter already has all these advantages over a pirate, why would they need anything else?!
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.03.09 14:15:00 -
[3]
Originally by: PhantomVyper why would they need anything else?!
Because, as a whole, the 'good guys' are so bad?
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Lodhi
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.09 14:26:00 -
[4]
in the end all "good guys" turn in to "bad guys" and vice versa. so stop crying and go pew-pew some and loot them, theres your reward.
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Atreides Horza
No Fear Buccaneers
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Posted - 2008.03.09 14:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: mahj Edited by: mahj on 09/03/2008 13:32:51 Edited by: mahj on 09/03/2008 13:31:46 There is no benefit to hunting pirates in this game. Why? The bounty system is borked, NPCs dont seem to care if a player is -10 or not, you can still have a +10 rating to a npc faction,and be -10 pirate just not be in there space? When you buy the game it says you can be a bounty hunter, but due to game mechanics its unworkable and unprofitable.If CCP needs some ideas to get this game play working. I got some.give a bonus to +standings like access to a great ship, make good players be able to be officers in concord or factions. A special skill to call concord backup once a day or somthing. not uber of course.there must be many more incentives i havent thought of to make the game more balanced between yar and defenders of the empire. seems like the game is all about being bad the last few years, time for a change.
So what you're saying is...
... a lot of people are really good at being bad, and since you are so bad at being good, you'll need a button to push that instapwns your opponent?
If you want change, vote f*cking Quimby.
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Grimwalius d'Antan
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.03.09 14:31:00 -
[6]
I don't think most of the hardship of being a bounty hunter stems from inbalanced game mechanics, I believe most of it has to do with that pirates know how to cause trouble, and therefore they also know exactly how to avoid it. A pirate will never walk into a trap, he'll spot it well ahead of time. A pirate will never be chased down and caught, he knows just what it takes to evade a pursuing ship or gang. A pirate knows that it is possible to be virtually uncatchable in low sec by staying away from planets, stations and gates.
Hunting people in this game is downright hard. The only thing that makes piracy consistently profitable is that many players are clueless how to stay safe in space. To catch someone who knows when and how to get away can be next to impossible, the tools available favours the hunted, you can stay out of trouble by spotting people entering the system by watching local chat, using the scanner to see when people are closing in on your coordinates, warping between safespots makes scan probes useless. Also, it is rare to have a ship warp in on you close enough to tackle you, many times have I seen my targets escape as I'm too far away to grab them before they do so.
This is where the true difficulty of piracy lies with me. Hunting is hard. Many non-PVP players mock pirates as overrated, as it is not hard to kill a mining barge with an interceptor and so on. I don't deny that it is easy to kill unarmed prey, but no one is claiming that killing newbies and mission runners is hard to begin with. Many people stand little chance in a fight with a pirate, but they have all the odds in their favour for avoiding the pirate, even in low sec or 0.0. For a bounty hunter, it is even harder as their targets, the pirates, are experts in hunting and evasion. Bounty hunters must also deal with the fact that pirates know how to handle themselves in a fight.
I've never been a bounty hunter, but I do think it is quite possibly the hardest profession in the game, but not because of the reasons stated by the OP. _______ Griefing is to ruin a friendly game, which Eve is not. |
Mihailo Great
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.03.09 14:36:00 -
[7]
This concept of a "good guy" is alien to me.
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Nyabinghi
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.09 15:31:00 -
[8]
Congratulations this is now the MILLIONTH post of someone requesting the bounty system be overhauled. Something I think players have been requesting since before RMR. Perhaps it's time CCP looked into it.
Benefits to being a pirate? Hmmm...You mean like ingame notoriety and status? How about the joy they get from blowing stuff up and or the being able to loot T2 mods, BPOs, Faction gear, etc. But they get a sec hit you say? Which means...Absolutely nothing, because 1) they can use an alt to do all their high sec stuff and 2) they can rat (which also rewards them with loot, isk bounties and salvage) to regain their sec status without ever having to make restitution to their victims.
Hell I can't believe after all this time we still have the same old CONCORD system to maintain a semblance of order in EVE. Time to move out of the stone age I say. ***
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Miller Vance
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Posted - 2008.03.09 16:57:00 -
[9]
My problem isn't with the 'real' pirates but with the posuers who gate gank in .4 systems until their sec status is at -1.99 or whatever and then skate back to high sec so CONCORD protects them against real retaliation. Sure, if they nailed you personally you can target their ship in high sec but only once and you can't pop their pod without becoming a 'criminal' yourself.
To those with the guts to go to -5 and below, kudos, you've at least got a pair.
Three improvements I think would go a long way without disallowing pirates to function as they have been are:
-Extend kill rights to the victim's corporation when attacked outside a valid war. In other words, if you pop one of my corpmates in their indy then you pick a fight with my corporation, not just that one player who may not even be capable of engaging you with any chance of success in the next 30 days.
This is wholly justified by the spirit of the game which is to say that every aspect of the game revolves around corps, alliances and teamwork... but as it stands right now I can't even proactively defend my corpmates against known pirates, much less retaliate on their behalf.
-Another good fix would be to allow players with bounties to be attacked in any sec system without sec status hits to the attacker or CONCORD intervention. After all there are 'sa***uards' in place that prevent placing a bounty on someone unledd the game mechanics confirm that they are, in fact, a criminal.
-Disable the ability of characters under 30 days in age to commit hostile actions in CONCORD protected space and/or increase the character recycling delay to 30 days instead of a few hours. Reducing the amount of people who are blatantly abusing a game mechanic to avoid any long term consequences for their actions would eliminate a lot of unresolvable anguish that exists right now.
Just to get my reply to what I know at least one person will say in response out of the way: Yes EVE is a cold harsh world, but in a cold harsh world there would be nothing stopping someone from sabotaging a ship that they can't take head on, or paying someone to slip a toxin in someone's pod fluid... Given that I'm working my way back up to positive sec status on a 3 year old toon at present I don't think 'Go back to carebear land...' is gonna fly either.
I have no objection to the ability of players to commit acts of theft and piracy, my only objection is to the fact that the game's current rules of engagement go a lot farther in terms of preventing retliation than they do to preventing the crimes in the first place.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.03.09 18:13:00 -
[10]
Revelation!
Make bounties hidden. Don't let anyone know they're there, including the bountied guy. That way, bounty hunters will get random and surprising awards, and pirates would have to pod themselves daily to see if they got a bounty. Which is more than likely worth less than their clone.
I can has eve?
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Divad Ginleek
Gallente Gateway Industries House of Mercury
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Posted - 2008.03.09 21:38:00 -
[11]
Hmm, it is a tough spot. how about making the bounty list the only way to see who has a bounty, and making unique skills, a bounty hunter skill path, that allows you to see better bounties the higher the skills are.
also, you will be unable to see the bounty on yourself, as well as anyone in your corp or alliance, and anyone you have eve-mailed or convoed in the past 5 days. (to make it harder for crims to check their own bounty.)
an added benefit of the bounty hunter skill path would be certain skills that amplify the stated amount of bounty by a percentage per level. so that a 1 mil bounty would be 1.25 mil with a lvl 5 skill, etc.
but that would be a lot of work to implement and check for balance. so in the meantime just start up an escort service for low sec haulers. or go be a merc and join corps in wars against pirate corps/alliances... use your imagination, in other words.
it would be cool to name your character Spyke, your Thorax "Bebop" and go around collecting bounties, but as others have said, the current game mechanics favor the hunted over the hunter. ::insert witty signature here:: |
Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Spaceways Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.03.09 22:08:00 -
[12]
The pirates often have very good lewt. Kill them and steal it.
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William DeMeo
Gallente Thunder Talons HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.03.09 23:05:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Miller Vance My problem isn't with the 'real' pirates but with the posuers who gate gank in .4 systems until their sec status is at -1.99 or whatever and then skate back to high sec so CONCORD protects them against real retaliation. Sure, if they nailed you personally you can target their ship in high sec but only once and you can't pop their pod without becoming a 'criminal' yourself.
To those with the guts to go to -5 and below, kudos, you've at least got a pair.
Three improvements I think would go a long way without disallowing pirates to function as they have been are:
-Extend kill rights to the victim's corporation when attacked outside a valid war. In other words, if you pop one of my corpmates in their indy then you pick a fight with my corporation, not just that one player who may not even be capable of engaging you with any chance of success in the next 30 days.
This is wholly justified by the spirit of the game which is to say that every aspect of the game revolves around corps, alliances and teamwork... but as it stands right now I can't even proactively defend my corpmates against known pirates, much less retaliate on their behalf.
-Another good fix would be to allow players with bounties to be attacked in any sec system without sec status hits to the attacker or CONCORD intervention. After all there are 'sa***uards' in place that prevent placing a bounty on someone unledd the game mechanics confirm that they are, in fact, a criminal.
-Disable the ability of characters under 30 days in age to commit hostile actions in CONCORD protected space and/or increase the character recycling delay to 30 days instead of a few hours. Reducing the amount of people who are blatantly abusing a game mechanic to avoid any long term consequences for their actions would eliminate a lot of unresolvable anguish that exists right now.
Just to get my reply to what I know at least one person will say in response out of the way: Yes EVE is a cold harsh world, but in a cold harsh world there would be nothing stopping someone from sabotaging a ship that they can't take head on, or paying someone to slip a toxin in someone's pod fluid... Given that I'm working my way back up to positive sec status on a 3 year old toon at present I don't think 'Go back to carebear land...' is gonna fly either.
I have no objection to the ability of players to commit acts of theft and piracy, my only objection is to the fact that the game's current rules of engagement go a lot farther in terms of preventing retliation than they do to preventing the crimes in the first place.
Never in my life has a victim come back to get me and actually succeeded in doing so. Not that I recall anyway, and I hope you do realize it takes a hell of a long time to go from -10 (pirate) to -1.99 (not pirate), longer then killrights should last. And since most pirates are -10 anyway, why would you need killrights at all?
The rest of your ideas are just ******** and a more suitable game for your pvp style would probably be www.worldofwarcraft.com
Have fun Yarr |
Wu Jiun
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Posted - 2008.03.09 23:06:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Divad Ginleek
also, you will be unable to see the bounty on yourself, as well as anyone in your corp or alliance, and anyone you have eve-mailed or convoed in the past 5 days. (to make it harder for crims to check their own bounty.)
Thats not very practical. Apart from that a pirate should of course be able to see his own bounty. You want a working bounty system and start farming pirates? I am all with you but they need their bragging rights. Otherwise bounty hunting will be as unbalanced to pirates as it is now to "bounty hunters".
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Ghellam
Gallente The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2008.03.10 00:47:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Ghellam on 10/03/2008 00:50:08 Here's something that will get shot down immediately I'm sure but it's worth a shot.
Security status prevents pirates from going into highsec according to their sec status, upon entry concord responds and kills such target.
Why not create true outlaw space? (Yes, I know 0.0 is considered outlaw space.) I also know that 0.0 contains true-sec systems, but I'm talking about a visible marking in the systems security on the map being negative. Not sure where the systems would go exactly...to keep it balanced mixed in with the rest of the empire space. That way an unsuspecting carebear can jump into outlaw space just like outlaws can jump into high-sec. :) BOOM!
If players with high security status' enter this space, a pirate equivalent of concord responds and kills the target. That or they have to deal with the yarr inhabitants.
Layout like such...
# Players with -2.0 or worse cannot enter 1.0 systems # Players with -2.5 or worse cannot enter 0.9 systems # Players with -3.0 or worse cannot enter 0.8 systems # Players with -3.5 or worse cannot enter 0.7 systems # Players with -4.0 or worse cannot enter 0.6 systems # Players with -4.5 or worse cannot enter 0.5 systems
soo....
# Players with -2.0 or better cannot enter -0.5 systems # Players with -2.5 or better cannot enter -0.6 systems # Players with -3.0 or better cannot enter -0.7 systems # Players with -3.5 or better cannot enter -0.8 systems # Players with -4.0 or better cannot enter -0.9 systems # Players with -4.5 or better cannot enter -1.0 systems
Have benefits of trading of items that would be seen as illegal in high-sec. (drug trafficking, wtf!) Pirates could sell all their loot there and keep other pirates from having to take alts into high-sec. It'd give pirates a safe place to be, just like carebears have. The rats in the belts there would rival the same levels as found in high-sec, so it wouldn't be unfair. Maybe a mission system of sorts for outlaws.
This is where everyone will ask "why give pirates benefits for being bad?!". I ask, "Why give carebears benefits for sitting safely in high-sec mining and mission running?"
yarrr!
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Sekhmet Orion
Mandatory Suicide Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.03.10 01:30:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Sekhmet Orion on 10/03/2008 01:31:51
Originally by: Ghellam
Here's something that will get shot down immediately I'm sure but it's worth a shot.
Yep, there is no Concord or faction navy in a -0.5 system. So who would enforce it?
Edit..you probably meant to change the sec status of the second list to "+"
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Ghellam
Gallente The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2008.03.10 01:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sekhmet Orion Edited by: Sekhmet Orion on 10/03/2008 01:31:51
Originally by: Ghellam
Here's something that will get shot down immediately I'm sure but it's worth a shot.
Yep, there is no Concord or faction navy in a -0.5 system. So who would enforce it?
Edit..you probably meant to change the sec status of the second list to "+"
Actually no. I'm talking about creating negative space systems. (not 0.0) :)
And yeah, not concord...especially since pirate space...but I'm saying create pirate peace-keepers of sorts to disallow fighting in pirate space so it's like a negative high-sec. That way pirates have a safe harbor for trading and such. And factions are easy - look at the pirates in belts. I guess that means NPCs would have to be miners?! XD J/K.
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Alqualonde
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.10 02:29:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Alqualonde on 10/03/2008 02:30:29 Some silliness in the OP, but it is a fact that the bounty system is broken. No point in setting bounties if it's just giving money to your antagonist.
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.03.10 02:30:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ghellam
Originally by: Sekhmet Orion That way pirates have a safe harbor for trading and such.
I won't flame you. You put time into this idea.
Problem is I have all the safe harbor I need when I dock. I like being flashy and having no other safe harbor. If I needed more of a safety net I'd be in high-sec war decing other corps or running Blockade for the umpteenth time. I imagine that goes for most of the other blinky, sexy people.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.10 03:16:00 -
[20]
"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb!" ~Dark Helmet
Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
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Roxanna Kell
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.10 04:51:00 -
[21]
Reward for so called Good guys = Ambulation, otherwise rat in empire.
Quote: You are what you are, fool
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Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.03.10 05:54:00 -
[22]
The reward is loot. And pirates in general drop much better loot than carebears. Plus there's the rare fat bounty too.
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Krabb Foot
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Posted - 2008.03.10 11:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: mahj Edited by: mahj on 09/03/2008 13:32:51 Edited by: mahj on 09/03/2008 13:31:46 When you buy the game it says you can be a bounty hunter .
It also mentions Fleet fights and being a peaceful Miner!
CCPs marketing Depaartment strikes player expectations wrecking for 1 gaxzillion.
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Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
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Posted - 2008.03.10 12:01:00 -
[24]
I thought good deeds were their own reward? That's what people used to tell me anyway. It's not like we have a common moral framework though. At least sec hit-free pvp is its own reward. Hauler alts are a hassle. Vigilantes already have sentry backup and the option to retreat into highsec anyway.
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Absolom Hues
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2008.03.10 13:05:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kruel The reward is loot. And pirates in general drop much better loot than carebears. Plus there's the rare fat bounty too.
The reward is loot..... but do pirates actually drop better stuff? What is all the discussion of suicide gankers against mission runners.... if pirates have the good fittings?
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Rasta we
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Posted - 2008.03.10 13:11:00 -
[26]
lets just say killing a player pirate brings alot more reward then killing some 10 day old in a belt, alot more fun also
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Miller Vance
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Posted - 2008.03.10 14:00:00 -
[27]
Originally by: William DeMeo
Originally by: Miller Vance My problem isn't with the 'real' pirates but with the posuers who gate gank in .4 systems until their sec status is at -1.99 or whatever and then skate back to high sec so CONCORD protects them against real retaliation. Sure, if they nailed you personally you can target their ship in high sec but only once and you can't pop their pod without becoming a 'criminal' yourself.
To those with the guts to go to -5 and below, kudos, you've at least got a pair.
Three improvements I think would go a long way without disallowing pirates to function as they have been are:
-Extend kill rights to the victim's corporation when attacked outside a valid war. In other words, if you pop one of my corpmates in their indy then you pick a fight with my corporation, not just that one player who may not even be capable of engaging you with any chance of success in the next 30 days.
This is wholly justified by the spirit of the game which is to say that every aspect of the game revolves around corps, alliances and teamwork... but as it stands right now I can't even proactively defend my corpmates against known pirates, much less retaliate on their behalf.
-Another good fix would be to allow players with bounties to be attacked in any sec system without sec status hits to the attacker or CONCORD intervention. After all there are 'sa***uards' in place that prevent placing a bounty on someone unledd the game mechanics confirm that they are, in fact, a criminal.
-Disable the ability of characters under 30 days in age to commit hostile actions in CONCORD protected space and/or increase the character recycling delay to 30 days instead of a few hours. Reducing the amount of people who are blatantly abusing a game mechanic to avoid any long term consequences for their actions would eliminate a lot of unresolvable anguish that exists right now.
Just to get my reply to what I know at least one person will say in response out of the way: Yes EVE is a cold harsh world, but in a cold harsh world there would be nothing stopping someone from sabotaging a ship that they can't take head on, or paying someone to slip a toxin in someone's pod fluid... Given that I'm working my way back up to positive sec status on a 3 year old toon at present I don't think 'Go back to carebear land...' is gonna fly either.
I have no objection to the ability of players to commit acts of theft and piracy, my only objection is to the fact that the game's current rules of engagement go a lot farther in terms of preventing retliation than they do to preventing the crimes in the first place.
Never in my life has a victim come back to get me and actually succeeded in doing so. Not that I recall anyway, and I hope you do realize it takes a hell of a long time to go from -10 (pirate) to -1.99 (not pirate), longer then killrights should last. And since most pirates are -10 anyway, why would you need killrights at all?
The rest of your ideas are just ******** and a more suitable game for your pvp style would probably be www.worldofwarcraft.com
Have fun
Actually, I left WoW because the risks weren't high enough in PvP to make it feel like you accomplished something when you put someone down.
I said nothing about people going from -10 to 1.99, try fitting Optical Enhancer IIs and a named Literacy Enhancer before trying again.
The reason you've never had a victim successfully come back is because you freely prey upon the weak and turn tail and run the second a superior force comes in to play against you... that's how pirates should be, I suppose.
I would like to know what precisely makes my ideas ******** in your opinion, please take a couple of days to formulate your opinions, longer if need be, then get back to me on it. Please attempt to keep it in terms of game balance, and bare in mind that since no one has been able to hunt you down and retaliate and that nothing in my suggestion list prevents you from employing any tactics you have been using to hunt, you really wouldn't be affected.
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Zeon Mackie
Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.03.10 14:03:00 -
[28]
There is benefit as people continue to do it
Some are happy to be bears, some are happy to YARR with the rest of us.
Do what you want, sec can be worked back or lost to suit.
Also, can i have your stuff? :)
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Alqualonde
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.10 14:45:00 -
[29]
Guys
Quote: There is no benefit to hunting pirates in this game. Why? The bounty system is borked
That much is very true, and it would be awesome if it weren't.
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Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.03.10 15:21:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Absolom Hues
Originally by: Kruel The reward is loot. And pirates in general drop much better loot than carebears. Plus there's the rare fat bounty too.
The reward is loot..... but do pirates actually drop better stuff? What is all the discussion of suicide gankers against mission runners.... if pirates have the good fittings?
A suicide ganker isn't a pirate... it's a suicide ganker. ;) Real pirates don't suicide gank because they're trapped in low sec with a -10 sec status.
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