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Sorum Daemoth
Insidious Existence
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Posted - 2008.03.09 23:14:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Tellenta ITT someone that wants to build a Titan, and doomsday jita 4-4
you cant DD in anywhere BUT 0.0
You just got WTF EXIT ganked! |
Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.03.09 23:18:00 -
[32]
Hmmm... I could finally run lvl 4 missions in my carrier...
--- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
Tellenta
Gallente White-Noise
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Posted - 2008.03.09 23:18:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Sorum Daemoth
Originally by: Tellenta ITT someone that wants to build a Titan, and doomsday jita 4-4
you cant DD in anywhere BUT 0.0
and we can't cyno in highsec, join me in the game of makebelive
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Turzyx
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Posted - 2008.03.09 23:25:00 -
[34]
So much for the 'sandbox'
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l3lackavar
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Posted - 2008.03.10 00:18:00 -
[35]
I say let them into empire just don't let them target any thing,launch fighters or drones. And maybe not allow super capitals into empire also. I mean who would want something the size of a titan orbiting a inhabited planet messing with the tides. Just my 0.2 isk
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Sarakiel
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Posted - 2008.03.10 01:27:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Sarakiel on 10/03/2008 01:29:35 If you really need a lore reason its the same reason why the Roman senate made law that no general could march his army across the rubicon. They were to fight for Rome and gain fortune and power outside of Rome, but Rome itself was never to be in the hands of the military. There was always a war between one Roman power and another it was just never suppose to touch Roman soil.
Same deal here except theres 4 empires locked in a truce and Concord is the police force maintaining that truce. Capitals are for conquering territory hence 0.0 is where capital's are allowed the same way Roman powers could fight outside of Rome all they wanted over the Saxon north, northern african provinces or wherever.
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Korizan
Oort Cloud Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.10 01:28:00 -
[37]
Actually
Capitals are allowed in Empire. In fact it would not surprise that there are a few still roaming around.
What are NOT allowed in Empire are Cyno Fields
But seriously I doubt the issue is actually with Capitals going to Empire and causing problems. It is more the case of not letting capitals enjoying the 100 % security of high-sec. Or about making it more difficult to maintain capitals. It is about keeping the numbers down. There are enough of them floating around as it is.
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Empire marketslave
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Posted - 2008.03.10 01:28:00 -
[38]
wouldn't the empires feel just as threatened by lets say every single goon in the game came to empire and started going on a killing rampage with the best battleships, hacs, ect.. isk can buy. that would be far more dangerous than a rogue capial.
also why coudln't concord make an uber capital that can deal with naughty capital pilots that shoot other people.
and as for big alliances/corps war decing small empire corps. couldn't they just bring the "kitchen sink" and be more of a problem than a few capials. given the choice i would take a carrier or 2 and a few dreads than 30 battleships and hacs. since dreads can hit anything that moves in siege and capitals can be stopped with ewar
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Chuck Skull
BBK Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.10 01:31:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Chuck Skull on 10/03/2008 01:33:47 Edited by: Chuck Skull on 10/03/2008 01:32:02 I'm not a RP'er but seeing as your argument was based on the RP side of things, here's the RP reason why you cant.
You're a freelancer you're not part of that factions navy.
Happy to sell it to you, so long as you cant use it against them.
Obligatory slightly far fetched example; You buy a fully armed Nimitz class carrier from the US. Think they'd let you within 1000miles of the coast with it? Even if you had +10.0 standing with ole Bushy?
---
Also available in 'sober' |
ZerKar
Caldari Zen'Tar
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Posted - 2008.03.10 02:02:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Lithalnas For those who understand that cap ships are not solo pwnmobiles that are used for lvl 4s, then the lack of cap ships creates two things first those in empire get fairer fights, no moms hot droped on you ever. Second if you lack the funds you can pvp in high sec and not have to have billions of isk in ships just to be able to kill someones carrier that you found mining in a belt.
The only "good" it does right now is cut some lag that would otherwise be had with Carriers and Moms. As for the problem of having a MoM slammed into your face and this being unfair, whatever! Like Empire Wars or Combat has ever been fair? I watch a lot of wars fly around and it is usually a War between 10 20 Mil SP pilots with a good Isk backbone vs. < 5 rookie pilots. The only difference having Caps in would make is that if you actually manage to lock and kill one you REALLY hurt the Corp using it. In the meantime that Merc Corp that said poor noobs MIGHT somehow afford to protect them can now jump their Mom in and clear out the station and gate camps that are dooming said Newb Corp.
Now if you are so concerned about scrounging up billions of isk to kill a mining carrier then you really have odd priorities I am afraid. Who cares if it is mining? Let it waste time, at least it is not KILLING you.
I can fully understand that CCP does not want more Carriers & Moms then they already have because of the lag they induce, but otherwise I can fathom no real reason to bother limiting Caps and Super Caps at all. Though the Empires may not want Pod Pilots flying Titans around their Stations, and for that matter it strikes me as dumbfounding that they would have allowed Rogue Pod Pilots to HAVE their super weapons. +++++++++++++++ For the LAST time...
Keep your UGLY Typhoon off my SEXY Hurricane |
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Stern Maxwell
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.10 02:41:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Stern Maxwell on 10/03/2008 02:42:47
Originally by: Chuck Skull Edited by: Chuck Skull on 10/03/2008 01:33:47 Edited by: Chuck Skull on 10/03/2008 01:32:02 I'm not a RP'er but seeing as your argument was based on the RP side of things, here's the RP reason why you cant.
You're a freelancer you're not part of that factions navy.
Happy to sell it to you, so long as you cant use it against them.
Obligatory slightly far fetched example; You buy a fully armed Nimitz class carrier from the US. Think they'd let you within 1000miles of the coast with it? Even if you had +10.0 standing with ole Bushy?
EDIT: I'm back from dinner and a movie to enjoy the thread.
Actually outside of Navies, international law forbids weapons of any kind at sea, even pistols. It's crap, but try telling that to a naval force. ___________________________________________
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Stern Maxwell
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.10 02:50:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Sarakiel Edited by: Sarakiel on 10/03/2008 01:29:35 If you really need a lore reason its the same reason why the Roman senate made law that no general could march his army across the rubicon. They were to fight for Rome and gain fortune and power outside of Rome, but Rome itself was never to be in the hands of the military. There was always a war between one Roman power and another it was just never suppose to touch Roman soil.
Same deal here except theres 4 empires locked in a truce and Concord is the police force maintaining that truce. Capitals are for conquering territory hence 0.0 is where capital's are allowed the same way Roman powers could fight outside of Rome all they wanted over the Saxon north, northern african provinces or wherever.
Funny, all the four Empire glorify their military, historic example, but fails to deliver a point. There have been many countries on earth that do parade their military down main street through the capital. EVE is not ancient Rome. Battleships were for conquering territory before capitals existed, why are those allowed in Empire? Even frigates are used in conquering territory, why are those not banned from Empire? With this line of reason only mining barges, and shuttles should be allowed in Empire, because others are used for violent conquest. 0.0 still exist for conquest, it's not like I am calling for those Roman Generals to stay out of Northern Europe (0.0). ___________________________________________
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Stern Maxwell
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.10 02:52:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Stern Maxwell on 10/03/2008 02:53:38
Originally by: Empire marketslave wouldn't the empires feel just as threatened by lets say every single goon in the game came to empire and started going on a killing rampage with the best battleships, hacs, ect.. isk can buy. that would be far more dangerous than a rogue capial.
also why coudln't concord make an uber capital that can deal with naughty capital pilots that shoot other people.
and as for big alliances/corps war decing small empire corps. couldn't they just bring the "kitchen sink" and be more of a problem than a few capials. given the choice i would take a carrier or 2 and a few dreads than 30 battleships and hacs. since dreads can hit anything that moves in siege and capitals can be stopped with ewar
If I had to bold a part of this post that was logically sound, I would have to bold the entire thing. Well done.
also,
Originally by: ZerKar
Originally by: Lithalnas For those who understand that cap ships are not solo pwnmobiles that are used for lvl 4s, then the lack of cap ships creates two things first those in empire get fairer fights, no moms hot droped on you ever. Second if you lack the funds you can pvp in high sec and not have to have billions of isk in ships just to be able to kill someones carrier that you found mining in a belt.
The only "good" it does right now is cut some lag that would otherwise be had with Carriers and Moms. As for the problem of having a MoM slammed into your face and this being unfair, whatever! Like Empire Wars or Combat has ever been fair? I watch a lot of wars fly around and it is usually a War between 10 20 Mil SP pilots with a good Isk backbone vs. < 5 rookie pilots. The only difference having Caps in would make is that if you actually manage to lock and kill one you REALLY hurt the Corp using it. In the meantime that Merc Corp that said poor noobs MIGHT somehow afford to protect them can now jump their Mom in and clear out the station and gate camps that are dooming said Newb Corp.
Now if you are so concerned about scrounging up billions of isk to kill a mining carrier then you really have odd priorities I am afraid. Who cares if it is mining? Let it waste time, at least it is not KILLING you.
I can fully understand that CCP does not want more Carriers & Moms then they already have because of the lag they induce, but otherwise I can fathom no real reason to bother limiting Caps and Super Caps at all. Though the Empires may not want Pod Pilots flying Titans around their Stations, and for that matter it strikes me as dumbfounding that they would have allowed Rogue Pod Pilots to HAVE their super weapons.
Also, very well done and logically sound ZerKar, excellent post. ___________________________________________
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Dyaven
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.10 03:11:00 -
[44]
How do we know the Caldari Navy doesn't have Titans? None of us are apart of the official race navies, and they probably don't want us to be poking around their empires with our shiny capital ships. ---- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. - The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Addams |
Rabbitgod
Veto. Academy Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.10 03:15:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Tellenta ITT someone that wants to build a Titan, and doomsday jita 4-4
Only the best idea ever!
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Stern Maxwell
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.10 03:15:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Dyaven How do we know the Caldari Navy doesn't have Titans? None of us are apart of the official race navies, and they probably don't want us to be poking around their empires with our shiny capital ships.
If they do, I would love to see one, sadly the Caldari Navy hides cloaked in safe spots and has since EVE was released, as does every Imperial fleet I suspect. ___________________________________________
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Robert0288
Caldari g guild Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.03.10 06:39:00 -
[47]
Capital ships are allowed in empire 0.1-0.4, lack of any true empire attempting to control sovereingty.
From the RP perspective: High sec cap ships would be wouldn't make sense. It would be the same thing as Gallente dropping a cap ship fleet into jita, declaration of war and maybe the begining of faction warfare.
Though it would be cool to see each empire having their capital ship yard in their own home system which you can visit (trinity trailer anyone. For instance you can see a leviathan, fleet of carriers, dreads, BS's inties, support ships etc... protected by uber giant large POS shield.
CCP can potentially use this as to the supposed entry of 'faction warfare' maybe base faction agents (like cosmos) in space outside shield etc...
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.03.10 07:37:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Stern Maxwell
Originally by: Aurix Lexico
Originally by: Stern Maxwell
Originally by: Aurix Lexico Why? What would you do with a dread in high sec? a titan? you talk about wanting to protect small empire corps that can't survive in 0.0, but then you want to bring carriers and motherships into high sec?
I never said protect, I said to enhance inter Corp warfare in Empire, and add POS warfare, in Empire. Lvl 4 mission runners fly ships almost as valuable as a carrier now anyway.
There is already POS warfare in empire, and adding capitals in empire isn't going to enhance inter corp warfare in empire, it would just *** it up some more.
Simple: it will require to convert the research POS and the construction POS in empire in deathstars to defend them, POS ransoming would become rampant.
Empire has not the redeeming quality of 0.0 POS activity (moonmining and sovereignty) but it would have all the hassle.
Every corporation with a capital in high sec would start ransoming all the research POS, so the research alliances would stop working. Small corp would have to say goodbye to having POS.
All good and dandy for the people that think that EVE is only combat PvP, totally stupid for people that want to do something different.
Please, I'm looking for reason, why would it **** it up more? Explain and I'd be more inclined to understand your position. **** it up how? Make it like 0.0? jk
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.03.10 07:40:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Stern Maxwell
Originally by: Alski
Originally by: Stern Maxwell
Originally by: Alski Roleplay reason: Because the empire factions that control highsec do not allow non-faction aligned CAPITAL ships to operate in their sovereign space (the operative word being "capital")
Real reason: they would be massively overpowered, at least if a small corp gets wardec'd by a large pvp corp, the best they are going to bring is battleships and commandships, imagine being in a 20 man corp and being wardec'd by a corp with 15 carriers, that would be the definition of pain.
Roleplay reason makes more sense than any other reason so far, as for a large PvP corp declaring war on a small corp, wouldn't that already be extremely painful anyway?
It would, and is, but the very least you can do is pop the odd battleship of theirs, even if you suicide on one with 10 cruisers and lose all of em, you'd still at least be fighting back, with even a few carriers remote repping you'd never have a chance, and the DPS output of the carriers would make an already suicideal tactic even more so, plus there'd be almost no way of killing even a small spider tanking group of carriers.
I think though that there are far more reasons than this, to pick just anouther, if you had huge empire corps wardecing other huge empire corps and going at it with large BS fleets, carriers, dreads, and seigeing pos's and such, what you've basicley got it all of 0.0 combat moved into empire space with none of the advantages of actuley being in 0.0
The advantages imo are smaller fights, and no NBSI policy, I must be alone in my thoughts that smaller fights would be more fun than the blob warfare everyone describes that 0.0 consists of.
What smaller fights?
People trying to kill a carrier group with cruisers?
All will flock to a small number of large alliance for protection or to NPC corps and high sec would have big blob battles between capital fleets or simgle players in NPC corps.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.10 08:11:00 -
[50]
Let's depopulate 0.0 and lowsec even further =P
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Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.10 08:11:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Stern Maxwell
Originally by: Twin blade I can see it now titan in jita DD 700+ pods out side jita 4-4.
So he blows 700 pods, and then loses a 50+b ship... why does everyone assume this will happen?
Because theres people with enough money who will be able to do it just for the luls? -----
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.03.10 08:13:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Because theres people with enough money who will be able to do it just for the luls?
the corruption of lol that you are looking for is spelled lulz
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Craig Crawford
Caldari Soldiers of Fortune United R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.03.10 08:20:00 -
[53]
I, for one, think that allowing capital ships into empire is a good idea.
Allow Titans to come in and DD everyone, this will solve the Jita problem. Items will be more spread out throughout the EVE universe...
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BiggestT
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Posted - 2008.03.10 08:31:00 -
[54]
Another reason theres no caps is coz a big enough cap fleet spider tanked could possibly perma-tank concord, untill concord numbers got soo high that the cluster shut down x)
tho if concord had cap ships..
WHY DONT CONCORD HAVE CAP SHIPS CCP!!??
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Dimagus
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Posted - 2008.03.10 08:44:00 -
[55]
Yeah, let's add fighter lag on top of all the highsec congestion! GOOD IDEA! Then try running highsec POSes with dreads around.
The Titan DDing thing would be useless however, no one's going to waste that much just to kill Jita 4-4
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.03.10 08:54:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Turzyx So much for the 'sandbox'
Sanbox died when alliance p got nerfed
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Celot
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.10 10:58:00 -
[57]
because I would fit my moros for smartbombing
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Frederick Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.03.10 11:00:00 -
[58]
Insofar as I recall, the original reason for denying capital ships access to hisec was suicide ganking. You take your dread into Jita, engage in free for all naughtyness and then jump into lowsec where Concord can't follow you.
Needless to say this this concept was not popular with the Devs.
Then they forgot about it and for a while you could do it with a Blackops if you didn't mind the ban when they noticed.
Anyways, since then they have further locked things down so that you cannot build capitals in hisec and moved any still there to lowsec. Last I heard Chribbas Veldnaught was no longer in Amarr.
Now with regards to the Op and the Caldari not having their Titan in Sobaseki. You misunderstand the rules. It's not that Capitals aren't allowed in hisec, it's that we're not allowed Capitals in hisec. If the Caldari empire wants to show off it's e-peen outside Jita 4-4 then there is nothing stopping them. Game mechanics make it tricky, but there are still ways the events team could get around such limitations.
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Celot
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.10 11:09:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Celot on 10/03/2008 11:09:08
Originally by: Frederick Lyrus Last I heard Chribbas Veldnaught was no longer in Amarr.
someone confirm this
this is important
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lolsup
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.03.10 11:10:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Stern Maxwell Edited by: Stern Maxwell on 09/03/2008 22:42:17
Originally by: Chian XinLian Said Empires do have more than just CONCORD 'protected' high-security space. Every low-security system is claimed by one faction.
If you have great firepower in your fleet - do you keep it in heart of your region, or at borders where possible hostile incursion happens?
You can't fire the Titan super weapon outside of 0.0, so I guess that they are not at the Empire's borders, are they.
Edit, I'll add the value of defending valuable property, just go play any game like Axis and Allies, play Germany and leave Berlin undefended and see what happens, or play Japan and leave the bulk of your forces far from your capital and watch how fast they fall.
Outside of gaming look at what the Russians did during WWII also, they had a single defensive line which the Germans broke through and didn't stop till they reached Moscow, putting your troops on the border is never the way to keep yourself safe, it can be effective, but if it fails, then you lose everything.
Yeah man, those Russians made a terrible imstake with their "line". I guess that's why they lost World War 2, huh? Don't click here. |
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