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Kommedian	Posted - 2008.03.11 23:06:00 - [1] Edited by: Kommedian on 11/03/2008 23:24:30 I'm a fairly new player with ~1.6million SP...my focus right now is on earning faction rep as fast as possible, and i'm looking for opinion on the least SP intensive BC, with missioning as the only activity. Basically what you think would allow me the greatest rep/time ratio... Or even alternatively...do you think i'd have better luck at this stage running in a cruiser? I'm running L2 missions right now and will be doing 3s ASAP. Any thoughts?
Nocturnal Avenger Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.11 23:17:00 - [2] Drake hands down - Carebear Pirate -
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.11 23:27:00 - [3] Yep drake. Least SP intense race = caldari. Playing caldari is like playing a warlock. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Needle Juice Caldari JET FORCE	Posted - 2008.03.12 00:06:00 - [4] whats a warlock
Inen OLE Mining Corp VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.12 00:10:00 - [5] I have to agree with the drake. In general, caldari missile boats are the least skill intensive. Anything with split weapon systems (typhoon - drones, missiles, turrets) will be more skill intensive. An armor tanked AC hurricane shouldn't be too skill intensive either though.
Deux Machina	Posted - 2008.03.12 00:24:00 - [6] Echoing the majority opinion: Drake.
Daphne Oboe	Posted - 2008.03.12 01:03:00 - [7] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Playing caldari is like playing a warlock. I admit that brought back some memories
Gneeznow Minmatar SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.03.12 01:05:00 - [8] rocket ferox booya
Bransden	Posted - 2008.03.12 02:01:00 - [9] My missioner was able to tank every level 3 mission in a drake with less than 1.5 million skillpoints.
d3vo	Posted - 2008.03.13 03:54:00 - [10] missioning - caldari - drake too bad but still glad i didn't make that decision
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.03.13 04:00:00 - [11] The day they give missile ships drones bays that are worth a damn is the day I train up those skills
Joe Starbreaker	Posted - 2008.03.13 06:31:00 - [12] Depends who you're doing missions for. The Amarr battlecruisers are excellent for running missions against Blood Raiders and Sanshas (the pirate factions indigenous to Amarria and neighboring areas) and I use my Prophecy or Harbinger to plough through the L3s for Amarr Navy and Khanid Navy. If I were dealing with Angels (Minmitar-like pirates) though, I'd be a very unhappy mission runner. Basically each race's weapons are optimized to kill their own kind. If you're doing missions for Federation Navy, for example, use a Gallente BC.
Batelle	Posted - 2008.03.13 06:35:00 - [13] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Yep drake. Least SP intense race = caldari. Playing caldari is like playing a warlock. oh god i lol'd
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.03.13 07:13:00 - [14] Originally by: Batelle Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Yep drake. Least SP intense race = caldari. Playing caldari is like playing a warlock. oh god i lol'd That's a terrible analogy. Warlocks actually have good DPS.
Arkedon	Posted - 2008.03.13 07:24:00 - [15] Originally by: Wet Ferret That's a terrible analogy. Warlocks actually have good DPS. True. Drakes are more like protection-spec Paladins.
Silent Deviant	Posted - 2008.03.13 08:11:00 - [16] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Depends who you're doing missions for. The Amarr battlecruisers are excellent for running missions against Blood Raiders and Sanshas (the pirate factions indigenous to Amarria and neighboring areas) and I use my Prophecy or Harbinger to plough through the L3s for Amarr Navy and Khanid Navy. If I were dealing with Angels (Minmitar-like pirates) though, I'd be a very unhappy mission runner. Basically each race's weapons are optimized to kill their own kind. If you're doing missions for Federation Navy, for example, use a Gallente BC. With the drake you just change out the missiles to give the damage you need to kill the rats.
Darius Brinn	Posted - 2008.03.13 08:28:00 - [17] Edited by: Darius Brinn on 13/03/2008 08:29:51
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.03.13 09:24:00 - [18] Originally by: Silent Deviant With the drake you just change out the missiles to give the damage you need to kill the rats. Amarr ships are much better for killing the EM vulnerable factions and Rogue Drones, as unbonused EM heavies do terrible damage. It's the difference between "I'm halfway through that BS' shield" and "Holy **** that rat died fast".
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.03.13 09:32:00 - [19] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Batelle Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Yep drake. Least SP intense race = caldari. Playing caldari is like playing a warlock. oh god i lol'd That's a terrible analogy. Warlocks actually have good DPS. No its not, caldari is the easiest race to play in eve. Warlock is the easiest race to play in WoW. Its powerful and its simple. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.03.13 09:34:00 - [20] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer No its not, caldari is the easiest race to play in eve. Warlock is the easiest race to play in WoW. Its powerful and its simple. If Warlocks didn't have incredible DPS, it wouldn't matter that they were **** easy to play. Hence why it doesn't matter that Caldari are easy to play.
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.03.13 09:38:00 - [21] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 13/03/2008 09:39:22 Originally by: Wet Ferret If Warlocks didn't have incredible DPS, it wouldn't matter that they were **** easy to play. Hence why it doesn't matter that Caldari are easy to play. But they both are easy mode, arent they :-) Heh and are we talking about the times before the fear nerf? Because pressing fear button and then a DOT button and then a fear button again and repeat is not what I call hard mode. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.03.13 09:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer But they both are easy mode, arent they :-) Heh and are we talking about the times before the fear nerf? Because pressing fear button and then a DOT button and then a fear button again and repeat is not what I call hard mode. They still do that after the fear nerf. The only difference is that now deathcoil isn't a free fear. Anyway, thread successfully derailed!
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.03.13 09:46:00 - [23] Originally by: Wet Ferret Anyway, thread successfully derailed! lol -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Yakia TovilToba	Posted - 2008.03.13 11:13:00 - [24] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Yep drake. Least SP intense race = caldari. Playing caldari is like playing a warlock. While i'm not going to question the statement on the drake, saying that caldari is the leas sp intense race is simply wrong. To be able to use all caldari ships at it's full potential, you will need to train: missiles hybrid turrets drones e-war, not like only lasters + drones for amarr. If you are going for turrets, you miss a lot of potential, ships like the ferox or moa don't have as much turrent points as high-slots, but they have launcher hardpoints, so you'd need to train both to use it at it's full potential. And you'd have to train missiles anyways, if you were up to use a caldari dreadnought. Even the caldari titan has a missile-related bonus. If you are going missiles only, youll only be able to use 3/4 of the caldaris most important ship, the raven, which has 6 launcher hardpoints and turret hardpoints for the last two highslots. So all you get is a bit lousy performance quite fast (faster then if you train for turrets maybe), but your potential is limited if you train only missiles.
Saetan SaDiablo	Posted - 2008.03.13 12:25:00 - [25] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba While i'm not going to question the statement on the drake, saying that caldari is the leas sp intense race is simply wrong. To be able to use all caldari ships at it's full potential, you will need to train: missiles hybrid turrets drones e-war, not like only lasters + drones for amarr. If you are going for turrets, you miss a lot of potential, ships like the ferox or moa don't have as much turrent points as high-slots, but they have launcher hardpoints, so you'd need to train both to use it at it's full potential. And you'd have to train missiles anyways, if you were up to use a caldari dreadnought. Even the caldari titan has a missile-related bonus. If you are going missiles only, youll only be able to use 3/4 of the caldaris most important ship, the raven, which has 6 launcher hardpoints and turret hardpoints for the last two highslots. So all you get is a bit lousy performance quite fast (faster then if you train for turrets maybe), but your potential is limited if you train only missiles. Have you played Amarr? Its hardly just Turrets and drones. WU and AWU are a must if you want to get away with as few fitting mods as possible. Another must is Controlled burst 5, and both cap skills to 5. This is hardly just "lasers and drones" Nice try though. As for your list Lets see... Caldari: missiles hybrid turrets Amarr: Lasers Cap skills WU-AWU Im not adding tank, ewar, and drones skills since both races need them.
Sidephex	Posted - 2008.03.13 12:36:00 - [26] Originally by: Saetan SaDiablo Originally by: Yakia TovilToba ... WU and AWU are a must if you want to get away with as few fitting mods as possible... and both cap skills to 5... Caldari: missiles hybrid turrets Amarr: Lasers Cap skills WU-AWU Im not adding tank, ewar, and drones skills since both races need them. what are u talking about? any race should have maxed cap and fitting skills, not only amarr o_O ___________
Saetan SaDiablo	Posted - 2008.03.13 12:39:00 - [27] Edited by: Saetan SaDiablo on 13/03/2008 12:42:23 Originally by: Sidephex Originally by: Saetan SaDiablo Originally by: Yakia TovilToba ... WU and AWU are a must if you want to get away with as few fitting mods as possible... and both cap skills to 5... Caldari: missiles hybrid turrets Amarr: Lasers Cap skills WU-AWU Im not adding tank, ewar, and drones skills since both races need them. what are u talking about? any race should have maxed cap and fitting skills, not only amarr o_O They arnt REQUIRED at 5 by every race. Amarr they are a requirement at 5 end of story. Especially for any sort of missioning setup. Also i didnt mention regular fitting skills only WU and AWU. Every other race can get away with AWU 2 or 3, Amarr really must have BARE min AWU4. Absolute minimum and then you still have to fit some grid mods.
Zorlag	Posted - 2008.03.13 12:43:00 - [28] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Yep drake. Least SP intense race = caldari. Playing caldari is like playing a warlock. While i'm not going to question the statement on the drake, saying that caldari is the leas sp intense race is simply wrong. To be able to use all caldari ships at it's full potential, you will need to train: missiles hybrid turrets drones e-war, not like only lasters + drones for amarr. If you are going for turrets, you miss a lot of potential, ships like the ferox or moa don't have as much turrent points as high-slots, but they have launcher hardpoints, so you'd need to train both to use it at it's full potential. And you'd have to train missiles anyways, if you were up to use a caldari dreadnought. Even the caldari titan has a missile-related bonus. If you are going missiles only, youll only be able to use 3/4 of the caldaris most important ship, the raven, which has 6 launcher hardpoints and turret hardpoints for the last two highslots. So all you get is a bit lousy performance quite fast (faster then if you train for turrets maybe), but your potential is limited if you train only missiles. You can get by just fine without training hybrid turrets for caldari ships. And really, who fits guns on those Raven slots? The caldari field a fine offense based on missiles alone. Drones are nice sometimes (although even then you don't have to train for heavy drones) and so is ewar (although again unnecessary, especially on battlecruisers), but neither is necessary, especially for missionrunning, which it sounds like this guy is doing~
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.03.13 12:58:00 - [29] I rise you a typhoon.
Gypsio III	Posted - 2008.03.13 13:13:00 - [30] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Yep drake. Least SP intense race = caldari. Playing caldari is like playing a warlock. While i'm not going to question the statement on the drake, saying that caldari is the least sp intense race is simply wrong. To be able to use all Caldari ships at their full potential, you will need to train: missiles hybrid turrets drones e-war This is very true. Although you can certainly get by with a very narrow spread of skills, to make the most of Caldari ships, you need a really diverse array of skills. You could also add armour-tanking to that list if you want to benefit from remote-reps. In comparison, Amarr ships require very good skills in a narrow field; Caldari ships require lesser levels of skill, but over a more diverse field.
Wardeneo	Posted - 2008.03.13 13:19:00 - [31] Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger Drake hands down agreed, i got 300k of sp in shield skills yet my drake tanks like a Ho i think the phoon is the highest sp intensive bs, raven is prolly the lowest.... BUT.... whats ppl's opinion on the highest sp intensive bc? wardeneo If brute force doesn't work..... your not using enough :)
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.03.13 13:32:00 - [32] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Yep drake. Least SP intense race = caldari. Playing caldari is like playing a warlock. While i'm not going to question the statement on the drake, saying that caldari is the least sp intense race is simply wrong. To be able to use all Caldari ships at their full potential, you will need to train: missiles hybrid turrets drones e-war This is very true. Although you can certainly get by with a very narrow spread of skills, to make the most of Caldari ships, you need a really diverse array of skills. You could also add armour-tanking to that list if you want to benefit from remote-reps. In comparison, Amarr ships require very good skills in a narrow field; Caldari ships require lesser levels of skill, but over a more diverse field. Thats not true. The ONLY thing amarr dont train at all are SHIELDS (dont forget a few mill in missiles because of khanid ships also). There is nothing narrow about the skill need of amarr players. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.03.13 14:39:00 - [33] I think there is a common misperception with Caldari and SP. It's not that we are the lowest SP race, it's that we can become effective with reasonably low investments of SP. You can fly a drake and be effective with only a few million SP. But to do anyhing WELL as caldari requires just about as many SP as any other race. My Drake for example has the following: Fitting Skills: Engineering V Electronics V Weapon Upgrades V Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV Weapon Skills: Heavy Missiles V Heavy Missile Specilization III Missile Launcher Operation V Rapid Launch V Warhead Upgrades IV Missile Bombardment IV Missile Projection III Shield Skills: Shield Operation V Shield Upgrades V Tactical Shield Manipulation IV And Drones: Drones V Drone Interfacing IV Scout Drone Operation V Race Spec Drones II. For a drake, that's pretty serious SP investment. Yet what does it achieve? A paltry 315 or so EFT DPS - sufficient to worry a sturdy tank, sufficient for PvE but not terribly well suited for either. Yes, the drake is the easiest BC to fly, i'll admit that. I'll even admit that caldari is the easiest race fly in a useful fashion. But, just like the other races if you want to shine you have to dump the SP in same as everyone.
Yakia TovilToba	Posted - 2008.03.13 16:37:00 - [34] Originally by: Derek Sigres I think there is a common misperception with Caldari and SP. It's not that we are the lowest SP race, it's that we can become effective with reasonably low investments of SP. You can fly a drake and be effective with only a few million SP. But to do anyhing WELL as caldari requires just about as many SP as any other race. My Drake for example has the following: Fitting Skills: Engineering V Electronics V Weapon Upgrades V Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV Weapon Skills: Heavy Missiles V Heavy Missile Specilization III Missile Launcher Operation V Rapid Launch V Warhead Upgrades IV Missile Bombardment IV Missile Projection III Shield Skills: Shield Operation V Shield Upgrades V Tactical Shield Manipulation IV And Drones: Drones V Drone Interfacing IV Scout Drone Operation V Race Spec Drones II. For a drake, that's pretty serious SP investment. Yet what does it achieve? A paltry 315 or so EFT DPS - sufficient to worry a sturdy tank, sufficient for PvE but not terribly well suited for either. Yes, the drake is the easiest BC to fly, i'll admit that. I'll even admit that caldari is the easiest race fly in a useful fashion. But, just like the other races if you want to shine you have to dump the SP in same as everyone. Thats the point, you have to train a lot and get a little. My missionrunner alt has 11mil in missile sp. All missile skills at 5, except cruise missile specialisation, which has 2 weeks left (2%rof). And what does he get ? Bit over 500dps with everything t2, 3 damagemods and faction cruise missiles. Thats rediculous, because of this i have to train for rails too, in order to fit 2 large hybrids and not waste those 2 last highslots. So i started train turrets, with something like 20k sp in gunnery (aside from the weapon upgrades and siege module skills) i was able to do a lvl 3 mission today in a moa, without damagemods, just 5x 250mm scout railguns. Only those webifier and kayokan frigs were a problem, had to kill them with the 3 tII light drones. Don't think its possible to do that mission with 5 heavy launchers without damagemod with only 20k sp in missiles. Missiles are not the "easy-to-train-for-big-effect" weapon, that anti-caldari-propagandists try to make us believe.
Saetan SaDiablo Galactic Hyperspace Planning Council	Posted - 2008.03.14 15:31:00 - [35] Originally by: Derek Sigres I think there is a common misperception with Caldari and SP. It's not that we are the lowest SP race, it's that we can become effective with reasonably low investments of SP. You can fly a drake and be effective with only a few million SP. But to do anyhing WELL as caldari requires just about as many SP as any other race. My Drake for example has the following: Fitting Skills: Engineering V Electronics V Weapon Upgrades V Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV Weapon Skills: Heavy Missiles V Heavy Missile Specilization III Missile Launcher Operation V Rapid Launch V Warhead Upgrades IV Missile Bombardment IV Missile Projection III Shield Skills: Shield Operation V Shield Upgrades V Tactical Shield Manipulation IV And Drones: Drones V Drone Interfacing IV Scout Drone Operation V Race Spec Drones II. For a drake, that's pretty serious SP investment. Yet what does it achieve? A paltry 315 or so EFT DPS - sufficient to worry a sturdy tank, sufficient for PvE but not terribly well suited for either. Yes, the drake is the easiest BC to fly, i'll admit that. I'll even admit that caldari is the easiest race fly in a useful fashion. But, just like the other races if you want to shine you have to dump the SP in same as everyone. AWU 4 Isnt needed for fitting out a drake neither is WU 5 actually, just because you HAVE them doesnt meen they are necessary. Of course to be the "best" you have to train millions and millions of xp. the fact is though a drake is the lowest sp required to be effective BC out there. People can fly and solo lvl 3s and some lvl 4s with 3-4 mil in SP using a drake, sure it takes a while, but try todo that with amarr youll have a swift death awaiting. PVP, heh we all know pvp is rough unless you have alot of sp anyway.
Yosarian MediaCataclysm	Posted - 2008.03.14 15:56:00 - [36] Originally by: Vanessa Vale I rise you a typhoon. The perfect ship for someone who couldn't make their mind up and trained everything. Now you can feel like you didn't waste your time
Verrain Ravenlark University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.14 21:08:00 - [37] Originally by: Saetan SaDiablo AWU 4 Isnt needed for fitting out a drake neither is WU 5 actually, just because you HAVE them doesnt meen they are necessary. Of course to be the "best" you have to train millions and millions of xp. the fact is though a drake is the lowest sp required to be effective BC out there. People can fly and solo lvl 3s and some lvl 4s with 3-4 mil in SP using a drake, sure it takes a while, but try todo that with amarr youll have a swift death awaiting. PVP, heh we all know pvp is rough unless you have alot of sp anyway. Actually that is untrue. Even with WU 5 you cannot fit a full rack of T2 Heavy Launchers of a Drake without fitting mods. AWU 4 isn't needed for guns, but if you want a third LSEII (which is optimal for most passive fits) you will probably need it at least at 4. So sure you can run some missions with low SP, but if you really want to take advantage of the full potential of the ship (just like any other) you need a lot of SP in the relevant areas.
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.14 21:24:00 - [38] If you think that the skills listed are "intense" that you only get 315 dps out of them, or that you should be fitting 3 LSEs on a drake you have some problems. All of the other battlecruisers require more skilling for similar effectiveness. The drake gets effective faster, and stays very very effective throughout its skill training span.
Verrain Ravenlark University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.15 05:53:00 - [39] Originally by: Goumindong If you think that the skills listed are "intense" that you only get 315 dps out of them, or that you should be fitting 3 LSEs on a drake you have some problems. All of the other battlecruisers require more skilling for similar effectiveness. The drake gets effective faster, and stays very very effective throughout its skill training span. I'm not sure where you are getting the "intense" comment from, but in terms of other battlecruisers; I haven't done a lot of research on Minnie but I would argue that the Myrmidon is very similar to the Drake in terms of it's effectiveness at low SP, and it can easily scale into the easier lv. 4 missions as you gain skill. The main reason it isn't used in Lv. 4s like the Drake is that most people just use a Domi since all their drone skills apply so their DPS is good and the tank skills are the same. Caldari pilots on the other hand need to train up their active shield skills and cruise missile before being able to effectively use a Raven; not that I am saying it's a huge deal, just saying that the only reason you don't see a billion "can my myrm do lv. 4s" threads right beside the Drake ones is the the Domi is a little bit of a smoother upgrade than Drake to Raven. For Amarr, yeah they get the shaft for missions until they are in a ship with large weapons because the mediums suck for DPS and they don't have the tank to just plod through it (neither do their battleships, but they do 700+ DPS at decent range including the drones so who cares). That being said I think that is an issue with medium laser damage and cap use, not an indication that they are more skill intensive; I don't think any amount of skills would let an Amarr battlecruiser do anything but the weakest lv. 4 mission, but maybe I'm totally wrong.
Rawr Cristina Naqam	Posted - 2008.03.15 06:17:00 - [40] Drake is really a good choice since Passive Tanking requires virtually zero skillpoints to do and can only be improved so much by skilling. Heavy Missiles don't take a huge amount of time to train, either, so that's also a plus. However to be -really- effective with a Drake it's still quite skill intensive. Battlecruiser 5 is a must, as are HAMs (well, depending on the setup) and maxxed out Missile Support skills, which by no means are 'fast' to train. In that regard the Myrmidon probably takes less, if it dosen't use Blasters. ...
Sionide Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.15 07:53:00 - [41] No question it's the warlock...err the drake.
Bellum Eternus Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.03.15 09:10:00 - [42] D R A K E Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Cutie Chaser Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.03.15 09:13:00 - [43] Passive tanked Myrm is probably equally effective as a drake at low SP. With no PG being required for guns to speak of you can over tank it and then just let your drones do the work for you. *** Thats a Templar, the amarr fighter. Its a combat drone used by carriers.
Connor Banks State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.15 09:36:00 - [44] MUAHAHAHA to everyone out there who is not piloting a Drake. Eat dirt losers! /Connor
Ban Shui Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.03.15 10:08:00 - [45] Drake... I was easily able to do lvl 3 missions in a low sp heavy missile passive tanked ferox, and the drake is much better again.
Diomidis Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.15 10:32:00 - [46] Originally by: Ban Shui Drake... I was easily able to do lvl 3 missions in a low sp heavy missile passive tanked ferox, and the drake is much better again. I was flying my Harbinger with 6.3M SP in Gunnery, 2M SP in drones, full T2 armor tank etc, in a ~15 SP char for lvl 3 missions...I've cross trained for the Raven to Rat in 0.0 space, so the Drake was pretty close...I've just bought it and rigged it...and... BOY it TANKS! Even with named shield extenders and laughable missile and shield skills it tanks way better than the Harbinger. Sansha/Blood lvl 2/3 missions are leveled by a good Harby, still the Drake feels like it could do it way easier. It's DPS are lower, still the sustainable passive tank is impressive and feels like you could load FoFs, put some paper weights on the F keys and finish all the missions AFK With the Harbi you have to be way more cautious, micro-managing your AB / MAR / Guns to help it from capping out, approach, align etc...way more challenging...even with Sansha / Bloods. Versus Guristas or Angels, the scales are turned in favor to the Drake even more... Drake hands down... Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com
Not1k Tainted Industries ANTHRAX DEATH	Posted - 2008.03.15 10:44:00 - [47] Hi, Talking about drake, I was wondering if should spend a few days cross training for ferox probably at the beginning just for ratting or mission running. Well im amarr and im a few days away from using t2 medium weaps for my harb. But i was thinking maybe its better to spend those few days to train for caldari bc and missiles skills still be used with sacrilege in the future. This is just for ratting/mission. Im not planning to cross train completely. And talking about skills, would lvl 3s do? I mean like all shield support skills/missiles? Thanks in advance
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.15 13:55:00 - [48] Edited by: welsh wizard on 15/03/2008 13:57:20 Drake is the least intensive. However, caldari missile boats are only the least skill intensive if you want to fly one ship using one weapons system. Last time I checked you can't fit siege launchers on a Crow. on the other hand if you've trained for large guns you have already trained the smaller guns, therefore you can fly the smaller ships. End result = If you want to fly every Caldari ship they're just as intensive as Gallente & Amarr, and almost on a par with minmatar. As for the guy who thinks caldari don't need full fitting skills, just quit already. --------------- you all smell!
Brodde Dim Unseen University Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.03.15 14:47:00 - [49] Edited by: Brodde Dim on 15/03/2008 14:47:40 Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 15/03/2008 13:57:20 Drake is the least intensive. However, caldari missile boats are only the least skill intensive if you want to fly one ship using one weapons system. Last time I checked you can't fit siege launchers on a Crow. on the other hand if you've trained for large guns you have already trained the smaller guns, therefore you can fly the smaller ships. End result = If you want to fly every Caldari ship they're just as intensive as Gallente & Amarr, and almost on a par with minmatar. As for the guy who thinks caldari don't need full fitting skills, just quit already. This topic is really old. Missiles require quite a bit less SP to use than their turret counterparts. Yes you will be able to use the smaller turrets if you have skills for the larger ones, but that is because you have allready trained those skills by that time. On top of that the fact that you need a secondary skill trained up before you can train T2 turrets, like sharpshooter or motion prediction. And you need the specialization skill to 4 for all the smaller variants of a turret before you can train the next one. To the OP: Yes, the drake is very efficient even with low SP.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.16 01:00:00 - [50] Originally by: Brodde Dim Edited by: Brodde Dim on 15/03/2008 14:47:40 Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 15/03/2008 13:57:20 Drake is the least intensive. However, caldari missile boats are only the least skill intensive if you want to fly one ship using one weapons system. Last time I checked you can't fit siege launchers on a Crow. on the other hand if you've trained for large guns you have already trained the smaller guns, therefore you can fly the smaller ships. End result = If you want to fly every Caldari ship they're just as intensive as Gallente & Amarr, and almost on a par with minmatar. As for the guy who thinks caldari don't need full fitting skills, just quit already. This topic is really old. Missiles require quite a bit less SP to use than their turret counterparts. Yes you will be able to use the smaller turrets if you have skills for the larger ones, but that is because you have allready trained those skills by that time. On top of that the fact that you need a secondary skill trained up before you can train T2 turrets, like sharpshooter or motion prediction. And you need the specialization skill to 4 for all the smaller variants of a turret before you can train the next one. To the OP: Yes, the drake is very efficient even with low SP. Completely irrelevant, you still can't fly anything but one or two ships until you train the relevant missile skills in order to fit a suitable weapons system. Theres actually more skillpoints in the missile tree altogether than one races gunnery tree believe it or not. If you think you're suddenly awesome with 1 million sp in missiles then you're gravely mistaken. If missile users want to compete against turret users they have to go level V across the board (bar the specs). The damage is low with few skills. Basically its a myth that Caldari missile ships are less intensive. Yes you can get in one with tech II launchers quicker than you can a gunship but you'll be utterly abysmal in any combat situation other than 'Guristas Extravaganza'. For the ops purpose the Drake is definitely going to be quicker to skill than a Myrmidon (for example) but if you want to compete with that Myrmidon you're arguably going to need more skillpoints dedicated to your ship than he has (tanking him until he leaves isn't a victory). Most people just see someone say "Caldari are less intensive" then believe it to be true but not for the reasons they think. To be a Caldari pilot able to fly any Caldari ship well you need more skillpoints than Amarr (closer gap since Khanid II) and easily as much as Gallente. Engineering is more intensive than mechanics by about 2 million sp, missiles are more intensive than gunnery by 1million sp + and everyone needs drones, everyone. If you want to fly the gunboats aswell then the gap widens further. Only Minmatar need more and thats because of the few armour tanking ships they use and the Typhoon with its 3 primary weapons systems. --------------- you all smell!
Hitme Harder Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.03.16 01:15:00 - [51] Passive tank takes near perfect capacitor and shield skills, and extremely good fitting skills, so drake is not as low SP as people are saying. AREN'T THEY ADORABLE?
Rawr Cristina Naqam	Posted - 2008.03.16 01:35:00 - [52] Originally by: Hitme Harder Passive tank takes near perfect capacitor and shield skills, and extremely good fitting skills, so drake is not as low SP as people are saying. For running Level 3 missions you only really need basic skills to pull off a workable passive tank. It's generally the best option for low-sp pilots as active tanks are generally horrific with a simlar amount of SP invested into them. Level 4s however are a different story. Attempting to complete them solo in a Drake without at least Battlecruiser 5 and Shield Management 4 is often futile Then there's always the resistance compensation skills for pure-passive setups... Those are fun ...
Polly Prissypantz Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.16 01:49:00 - [53] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Batelle Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Yep drake. Least SP intense race = caldari. Playing caldari is like playing a warlock. oh god i lol'd That's a terrible analogy. Warlocks actually have good DPS. No its not, caldari is the easiest race to play in eve. Warlock is the easiest race to play in WoW. Its powerful and its simple. Good. Now go solo PvP in that Caldari ship of yours.
Brodde Dim Unseen University Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.03.16 17:19:00 - [54] Originally by: welsh wizard Completely irrelevant, you still can't fly anything but one or two ships until you train the relevant missile skills in order to fit a suitable weapons system. Theres actually more skillpoints in the missile tree altogether than one races gunnery tree believe it or not. If you think you're suddenly awesome with 1 million sp in missiles then you're gravely mistaken. If missile users want to compete against turret users they have to go level V across the board (bar the specs). The damage is low with few skills. Basically its a myth that Caldari missile ships are less intensive. Yes you can get in one with tech II launchers quicker than you can a gunship but you'll be utterly abysmal in any combat situation other than 'Guristas Extravaganza'. For the ops purpose the Drake is definitely going to be quicker to skill than a Myrmidon (for example) but if you want to compete with that Myrmidon you're arguably going to need more skillpoints dedicated to your ship than he has (tanking him until he leaves isn't a victory). Most people just see someone say "Caldari are less intensive" then believe it to be true but not for the reasons they think. To be a Caldari pilot able to fly any Caldari ship well you need more skillpoints than Amarr (closer gap since Khanid II) and easily as much as Gallente. Engineering is more intensive than mechanics by about 2 million sp, missiles are more intensive than gunnery by 1million sp + and everyone needs drones, everyone. If you want to fly the gunboats aswell then the gap widens further. Only Minmatar need more and thats because of the few armour tanking ships they use and the Typhoon with its 3 primary weapons systems. Very few pilots train all the missile skills. And you definatly dont need to have all skills to V to be efficient. I really doubt that many raven pilots have rocket specialization to 4 even. And they still do quite well with their T2 torps. If you really like to train skills just to brag about how many SP you have, then missiles might be skill intensive, but that has nothing to with what the OP asked. You cant really compare turrets with missiles in efficiency in pvp either, since they are used differently. Then you talk about other skills than missile/turrets, and do the same mistake. You compare the size of the skill categories, wich says nothing about how much skills you need to be effective. And a lot of skills from most of the categories are needed for all races and all ships, especially engineering. Atm. I think I have fewer SP directly linked to caldary than both amarr and gallente, and I still tend to use caldari ships most of the time, just because they are very simple to use, and very effective. If the question had been "How many SP can you get if you train everyhing that can be remotely usefull for any of the ships for each race?" You would have a point though. Even though I think all the races would be fairly close in the end. But that would be a stupid question, wouldnt it?

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