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Time has come to remove "kinetic" dmg bonus from caldari ships.

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Shemaul A.C.M.E Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.15 11:06:00 - [1] Bring back damage bonus applied to every type of missile fitted. We do only one kind of damage per missile. Tired to be the only race that tells foes "don't forget your kin hardener when u fight me!".
SwitchBl4d3 SAS Elite Ops Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2008.03.15 11:09:00 - [2] you are the only rave that gets bonus dmg type tho Originally by: Stavros BUNGLE IN JUNGLE? J tHX OMG YEAH CHICKEN WINGS K? LOLLER SKATESWIHT LUBE K? MIUOINKEYT!!!
Na'Kunni RSP Enterprises HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.03.15 11:10:00 - [3] Originally by: Shemaul Bring back damage bonus applied to every type of missile fitted. We do only one kind of damage per missile. Tired to be the only race that tells foes "don't forget your kin hardener when u fight me!". I don't think so to be honest... Caldari are good at what they do, I aint seen a problem with thier Kinetic bonuses, that's why most bonuses are 10% per level... not 5%... Also a few of thier missile spewing ships have bonuses to other missile damages.. It's been like this for ages (if not forever), and your still up top with Gallente/Min why change now??
Laetha Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.15 11:15:00 - [4] Edited by: Laetha on 15/03/2008 11:16:04 This again? Tired topic imo.
Shemaul A.C.M.E Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.15 11:17:00 - [5] If missiles bonus in percentage are too high they could balance it. Only ships that has bonus related to ammo and not to weapon. And believe, it was not always this way, kinetic only bonus was applied later on.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2008.03.15 11:18:00 - [6] If it was to be done it would be restricted to one missile launcher type and range bonus would probable be removed as well. A lot of the power of the Caldari missile ship comes from the properties of the heavy missile - good damage, excellent range, good speed/radius. Look at what choice of damage type has done to/for the Sacrilege. Close range fighting has it's uses to be sure, but in this Age of Velocity range is becoming more and more important.
ShardowRhino The Older Gamers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.03.15 11:43:00 - [7] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida If it was to be done it would be restricted to one missile launcher type and range bonus would probable be removed as well. A lot of the power of the Caldari missile ship comes from the properties of the heavy missile - good damage, excellent range, good speed/radius. Look at what choice of damage type has done to/for the Sacrilege. Close range fighting has it's uses to be sure, but in this Age of Velocity range is becoming more and more important. unless your in a good ol fashioned gate camp slugfest.
Daelin Blackleaf Naqam	Posted - 2008.03.15 12:32:00 - [8] Gets my vote. It's a relic of the time before Caldari became the missile race and contributes nothing to the game while removing a lot of flexibility.
Buyerr Hedion University	Posted - 2008.03.15 12:51:00 - [9] Originally by: Shemaul Bring back damage bonus applied to every type of missile fitted. We do only one kind of damage per missile. Tired to be the only race that tells foes "don't forget your kin hardener when u fight me!". .... amarr... ehh don't forget the 60% to em hardeners, and a 40% of therm hardeners, when they come and the rest of the resist.. hmm just skip those XD naa i think it is fair that some ships are specifically ken dmg only bonusses. but one thing i will say should be overkilled and removed is the "bonus to ROCKETS only" and ham only etc.. there is NO other weapon systems saying "bonus ONLY to blasters" or only to rail guns. etc. I declare war on stupidity
AndrewRyan Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.15 13:03:00 - [10] Gallente should be restricted into only using thermal drones as well. ========================================= A Man chooses, a slave obeys.

Shi Mun Perkone	Posted - 2008.03.15 13:28:00 - [11] I dont see a problem with the kinetic damage bonus, seems fine to me (and im a born caldari so shush) giving caldari damage to all missile types ina single bonus is like giving amarr an explosive damage crystal, its never gunna happen! --------------------------- The Cake is a lie... The Cake is a lie... The Cake is a lie...
Jmanis Catharg Stickler inc	Posted - 2008.03.15 13:45:00 - [12] They know I fly Caldari. They know I'll pack kinetic for the % dmg bonuses. They tank kinetic heaps. I fit any other damage type. Problem solved :)
Smantha Dering Sam's Space Guys	Posted - 2008.03.15 13:47:00 - [13] I switch it up, Kinetic has its uses but skills will help your other damages perform well in the right situations, especially when you know your enemy is tanking kinetic. Just because kinetic gets the bonus does not mean you should only use kinetic.
Hasak Rain Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.15 14:24:00 - [14] You could always switch other damage types. Why not? for years when I had concerns about the lack of EM damage that Amarr does to other ship's tanks, I was told "To switch races." All you have to do is switch missiles. Even the Devs said that when they designed the Drake. Dude said "Nobody is forcing you to use Kinetic" when you all whined about the new Drake on the test server while they were doing their last minute modifications to the design of those ships. If that is the Dev's stance, I doubt it is going to get changed anytime soon. To change it, I would assume that the race would have to swallow a hefty across the board nerf elsewhere.
Hasak Rain Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.15 14:29:00 - [15] Originally by: Shemaul Bring back damage bonus applied to every type of missile fitted. We do only one kind of damage per missile. Tired to be the only race that tells foes "don't forget your kin hardener when u fight me!". At least they have to fit a hardener. They didn't have to fit ANYTHING when facing an Amarr ship. Cry more.
Ulstan Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.15 15:10:00 - [16] Only caldari ship with bonuses to kinetic damage that needs fixing is the hawk. That thing is just terrible. It doess less damage than the Kestrel!! And it's an assault frigate
Hasak Rain Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.15 15:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Ulstan Only caldari ship with bonuses to kinetic damage that needs fixing is the hawk. That thing is just terrible. It doess less damage than the Kestrel!! And it's an assault frigate I agree but all AFs need a boost. It is a pretty worthless class of ship.
Ogul ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.03.15 15:23:00 - [18] Originally by: Hasak Rain At least they have to fit a hardener. They didn't have to fit ANYTHING when facing an Amarr ship. Cry more. Indeed, I remember Caldari ships having terribly high resistances against EM damage. --- Don't put your trust in revolutions. They always come around again. That's why they're called revolutions. People die, and nothing changes.
Pan Dora Bears Inc Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.15 15:40:00 - [19] One of the main advantages of missiles its exactly the fact you can chose the damage you deal. If you follow the bonus and stick with KN missiles you are giving up this advantage, if you load other dmg types you are giving up the bonus. Pan
Pan Dora Bears Inc Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.15 15:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Hasak Rain At least they have to fit a hardener. They didn't have to fit ANYTHING when facing an Amarr ship. Cry more. So when a amarr call for fixes for his issues that is a request, when a caldari call for fixes its crying? Pan

benzss Twisted Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.15 16:00:00 - [21] Originally by: AndrewRyan Gallente should be restricted into only using thermal drones as well. And you should be restricted to playing in the sandpit at special school.
Jaketh Ivanes Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.03.15 16:04:00 - [22] Originally by: Shemaul Bring back damage bonus applied to every type of missile fitted. We do only one kind of damage per missile. Tired to be the only race that tells foes "don't forget your kin hardener when u fight me!". You can have that, when I get a bonus to all types of turrets. There is no sense in me only getting a rof bonus to lasers or tracking bonus to projectile. Doesn't even make sense that said bonuses only applies to large guns. Should be all sizes. Wait a minute... this is EvE, a game, doesn't have to make any sense at all.
Vanessa Vale Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.15 16:34:00 - [23] Kinetic is caldari's racial damage, that's why you get the bonus. And you get the bonus because if kinetic missiles did more damage other races would be able to use them too. And before you start off with the mythical "minmatar can choose damage" go check the ammos and compare. Ammo is prenerfed so that it is only really useful on minmatar ships.
Hasak Rain Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.15 16:38:00 - [24] Originally by: Pan Dora Originally by: Hasak Rain At least they have to fit a hardener. They didn't have to fit ANYTHING when facing an Amarr ship. Cry more. So when a amarr call for fixes for his issues that is a request, when a caldari call for fixes its crying? Where did I say Amarr players never cried throughout the three years CCP chose to ignore them? Not to mention Amarr needed fixes while Caldari doesn't. At least not to the extent that the Oper is suggesting. Any other ignorant remarks that you would like to make?
Wet Ferret Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.15 16:43:00 - [25] Originally by: Hasak Rain Not to mention Amarr needed fixes while Caldari doesn't. At least not to the extent that the Oper is suggesting. You remember when people fit Minmatar guns to Amarr ships? I thought that was pretty sad, and you might agree. Well, switching to unbonused missiles is effectively the same thing. Would you take a 25-50% damage reduction to use a different damage? It just seems like the "versatility" of missiles isn't really there for Caldari (the one exception being the Raven).
Hasak Rain Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.15 16:54:00 - [26] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Hasak Rain Not to mention Amarr needed fixes while Caldari doesn't. At least not to the extent that the Oper is suggesting. You remember when people fit Minmatar guns to Amarr ships? I thought that was pretty sad, and you might agree. Well, switching to unbonused missiles is effectively the same thing. Would you take a 25-50% damage reduction to use a different damage? It just seems like the "versatility" of missiles isn't really there for Caldari (the one exception being the Raven). Yes it was pretty sad. It shows how messed up Amarr really was. Taking unbonused missiles isn't the same thing. You can fire Kinetics and hope the target doesn't have good Kinetic resistances but you have the option to switch damage types if that isn't panning out. They have access to all four types to boot. Meanwhile, Amarr to this day is stuck with EM/Therm. If Amarr becomes fotm because of the recent changes to resistances, you know damn right people are going to change their setups to counter Amarr and we will be back to square one. Point is, i would much rather have an option to use any damage type I want over being pigeonholed into only EM damage. You are looking down your noses at that choice to switch because it won't have a bonus but it doesn't matter if the new damage type you choose happens to be your target's resistance hole.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.03.15 17:12:00 - [27] in most cases i would actually rather use kinetic over em/thermal/explosive. the one exception is mission running fits, what ships even have the kinetic only damage bonus? drake, nighthawk(5% rof bonus, 5% kin damage bonus, 5% precision bonus), crow (gets a 10% bonus to kinetic which counts for both t1 ship skill bonuses), kestral (is intresting as it gets a 5% em/thermal/explosive, and 10% kinetic), the stealth bomber (they all get race spec damage bonus though), hawk, caracal, condor, heron, Cerberus, onyx, flycatcher, and rook.
Pan Dora Bears Inc Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.15 18:29:00 - [28] Originally by: Hasak Rain Any other ignorant remarks that you would like to make? Maybe some "ignorant remarks": -shield tank sux >> armor tank rox >> laser sux. Intersting how a issue caldari ship had ended in a issue to amarr ship, no? -Caldari may use EM, TH ot EX missiles and ignore the +5% to kn dmg bonus. The same way amarr can ignore the -10% to cap use of laser and go with projectiles. It will be a wast of bonuses to amarr, will be a waste bonuses to caldari. BTW, when I quote you before i make a clear insinuation that you are someone that jsut think like this: Quote: Not to mention Amarr needed fixes while Caldari doesn't. At least not to the extent that the Oper is suggesting. Tank you for the confirmation of my argument. Feel free to ignore my post, its just a bunch of ignorant remarks anyways. Pan
Hasak Rain Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.15 18:54:00 - [29] Originally by: Pan Dora Originally by: Hasak Rain Any other ignorant remarks that you would like to make? Maybe some "ignorant remarks": -shield tank sux >> armor tank rox >> laser sux. Intersting how a issue caldari ship had ended in a issue to amarr ship, no? -Caldari may use EM, TH ot EX missiles and ignore the +5% to kn dmg bonus. The same way amarr can ignore the -10% to cap use of laser and go with projectiles. It will be a wast of bonuses to amarr, will be a waste bonuses to caldari. BTW, when I quote you before i make a clear insinuation that you are someone that jsut think like this: Quote: Not to mention Amarr needed fixes while Caldari doesn't. At least not to the extent that the Oper is suggesting. Tank you for the confirmation of my argument. Feel free to ignore my post, its just a bunch of ignorant remarks anyways. Projectiles aren't an Amarr racial weapon so it shouldn't even be considered when comparing Amarr problems to Caldari problems. Using Projectiles on Amarr ships was just a band aid fix that the players came up since the Devs were too lazy or didn't care to do their jobs. So uh no. They aren't the same thing. Not even close. When you can convince me that your ships work better with another race's weapons, then you will have a legitimate issue to cry about. The Amarr boost sure brought out it's share of whiners though. Just because one race which obviously needed some adjustments got some love, I guess that is justification for the other three race's players to expect handouts for their race and free boosts for all. Sorry it doesn't work that way but you will figure that out when your Kinetic bonus still remains years from now or if they do change it, nerf something else.
Matthew BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.03.15 19:32:00 - [30] Originally by: Shemaul Tired to be the only race that tells foes "don't forget your kin hardener when u fight me!". If your opponent has tanked hard on kin, then they will be weak to one of the other damage types. Switching to use one of those other damage types takes just 10 seconds to reload ammo - something turrets cannot do (while projectiles can change their damage mix, they can't do a pure damage switch in the same way, and have to deal with changes to range and volume of ammo when switching damage mix (which affects frequency of reloads, and thus long-term DPS)). Yes, you lose the damage bonus if you switch to another damage type, but you also get to put your entire damage output through their weak resistance. The trick is knowing whether that weak resist is weak enough to make up for the loss of the damage bonus. So lets bring some numbers into it. I'm going to take my own standard mission-fit Drake as an example (both as attacker and defender), simply because it's the closest ship I have to hand. It has shield resists of (EM/Kin/Exp/Ther) 67/80/63/73, so is already biased towards kin in it's tank. With my skills I get a 25% damage bonus to kin, giving damages for the 4 damage types of: 202.5/253.125/202.5/202.5 Putting these through the resists (calculation: (1-resist_decimal)*rawdamage ) means that actual damage done for each damage type is 66.825/50.625/74.925/54.675 Therefore, even with a 25% damage bonus to kinetic, shooting this drake with kinetic missiles is actually the worst thing you can do. With my skills, that drake has a rof of 7.83 seconds. Reloading takes 10 seconds, so I lose the equivalent of 1.28 shots by switching damage types. Even the smallest gain switch, from kin to term gains me 4.05 damage per shot, so the switch is worth making if the fight is expected to last more than 16 shots (i.e. over 2 minutes). If I make the most beneficial switch (kin to exp), I gain 24.3 damage per shot, and it's worth doing if the fight is expected to last more than 2 shots. While it may feel like the bonus is now not helping you, in reality it is, just not in the direct and obvious way. Remember, it's the existence of the kinetic bonus that led your opponent to skew his tank towards kinetic, and open up the resistance hole you're now using against him. So while it's his resistance hole that's directly improving your damage, it's your damage bonus that made him open up that hole in the first place. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.



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