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Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.03.16 20:05:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ammoina on 16/03/2008 20:05:53
"Pilots can no longer have multiple overlapping scan probes scanning simultaneously."
As per the notes.
I'll be honest and say I've not done any exploration in awhile but this really worries me if its true. I would end up with multiple overlapping probes all the time while trying to get full coverage of a system, particularly around the inner planets.
Did they indeed nerf that to hell or not?
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.03.16 20:17:00 -
[2]
The patch note is worded poorly, and shouldn't have mentioned overlapping at all. You can still overlap in the same way as normal; e.g. when Quests are between 4.0 and 7.99au apart, their scans will have some overlap. (Less than 4.0 apart and they won't work, but no change there.)
The exploit allowed people to run multiple scans of the same probes at the same time, and that's what was fixed.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
KhaniKirai
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.16 20:27:00 -
[3]
Its a dumb nerf, because now you need to make extra bookmarks to scanning complexes down.
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Jonathan Calvert
Empire Mining and Trade
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Posted - 2008.03.16 20:29:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: KhaniKirai
Its a dumb nerf, because now you need to make extra bookmarks to scanning complexes down.
NO you dont. THe only thing that changed is you cant run 2 scans at once anymore.
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KhaniKirai
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.16 21:26:00 -
[5]
Sure sure, well i seen it this evening.
I had a pursuit probe at a spot, and i wanted to put a quest probe at a planet nearby, that was way outside the bubble and i get the message, that i am not allowed to put it there, due to overlapping blablabla.
Before the patch that was not even a problem, as long as the drop spot was outside the bubble, you could put any probe up, but now not anymore.
Which effective means, that i had to make more bookmarks to be able to scan everything.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.03.16 22:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: KhaniKirai
Sure sure, well i seen it this evening.
I had a pursuit probe at a spot, and i wanted to put a quest probe at a planet nearby, that was way outside the bubble and i get the message, that i am not allowed to put it there, due to overlapping blablabla.
Before the patch that was not even a problem, as long as the drop spot was outside the bubble, you could put any probe up, but now not anymore.
Which effective means, that i had to make more bookmarks to be able to scan everything.
That's interesting. So if I understand you right, potentially you could have dropped a Sift, Comb, Pursuit, and Quest, as long as you did them in that order, and just outside the range of the earlier probes? That's pretty funny.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
notaway
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.16 22:38:00 -
[7]
ah wait a sec--I don't do exploration but read the guides out there on probing etc. It was normal and not a bug to drop another probe outside the bubble created by the first. U could always drop another probe outside the bubbles of any others already dropped..they had pics showing same.. Of course there would be overlap amongst the 3 or so probes but that was ok as long as the probe was not dropped within the bubble of another probe to start out...The guide indicated the overlap gave more chance of locating something etc and spoke of gaps that would otherwise exist...
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Manic Smile
Tau Ceti Global Production
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.16 23:28:00 -
[8]
IF this is true yet another reason not to waste time on the screwed up exploration system.
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Hortoken Wolfbrother
Free Lapland
The Kadeshi
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Posted - 2008.03.16 23:40:00 -
[9]
Nothing has changed with probe placement, nothing at all.
The only change has been a fix to a bug which allowed you to run multiple scan cycles simultaneously and get results much faster than intended.
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notaway
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.17 00:01:00 -
[10]
Scan cycles--can't remember but I had the impression u could run a scan each time u dropped a probe but just couldn't run another for that probe until the last was finished? So 3 probes dropped and 3 scans could be going--1 for each probe? If u wanted to start another then u had to destroy the probe or something like that---I was thinking of going into Exploration shortly once I can make my own probes and so have an interest here...(ice mining and bpo)
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Rogaru
Sacred Templars
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2008.03.17 01:28:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Hortoken Wolfbrother
Nothing has changed with probe placement, nothing at all.
The only change has been a fix to a bug which allowed you to run multiple scan cycles simultaneously and get results much faster than intended.
This.
To clarify - you used be able to drop probes as per normal - then start a scan. Then enter warp, and start another scan, and another scan, and another scan.
So you could do like 10 scans in the time it took to do like 3.
Now you can only one run scan at any one time - the way it used to be before Trinity.
Nothing has changed with probes themselves 'overlapping'. That includes the fact that a probe cannot be within the space of another probe (comb, sift or otherwise).
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Zeiffer
Archaic Rage
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Posted - 2008.03.17 02:59:00 -
[12]
Yes probing sux. Don't do it. Its a waste of your time and you will not enjoy it anyway. Try running more missions or mining. 
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.03.17 03:07:00 -
[13]
KhaniKirai is saying specifically that before the patch only the range of a previously dropped probe mattered. I realize that this wasn't the conventional wisdom,, but I have to wonder how many of yall ever actually have gotten the chance to try this, since it involves using different probe types at the same time and specifically long range probes after short range.
I used to use different probe types occasionally, but since I accepted the conventional wisdom, the only situations I can think of where I would have done so I'd have been dropping the shorter range probes after longer range. (For instance, after getting a single hit in a system's Quest BM net where I suspected there were multiple sites.) In which case I would never have seen this hypothetical bug. I imagine most Explorers would be in the same boat.
Yes, I do know about the warp / multiple scan bug, since I was one of the people who bug reported it. I also realize that the simplest explanation is that KhaniKirai is mistaken, that the whole discussion is totally pointless and academic anyway, and that idle curiosity killed the cat. (But satisfaction brought him back.  )
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Jonathan Calvert
Empire Mining and Trade
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Posted - 2008.03.17 13:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Zeiffer
Yes probing sux. Don't do it. Its a waste of your time and you will not enjoy it anyway. Try running more missions or mining.
I agree. Nothing to see here.
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Jonathan Calvert
Empire Mining and Trade
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Posted - 2008.03.17 13:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
KhaniKirai is saying specifically that before the patch only the range of a previously dropped probe mattered. I realize that this wasn't the conventional wisdom,, but I have to wonder how many of yall ever actually have gotten the chance to try this, since it involves using different probe types at the same time and specifically long range probes after short range.
I used to use different probe types occasionally, but since I accepted the conventional wisdom, the only situations I can think of where I would have done so I'd have been dropping the shorter range probes after longer range. (For instance, after getting a single hit in a system's Quest BM net where I suspected there were multiple sites.) In which case I would never have seen this hypothetical bug. I imagine most Explorers would be in the same boat.
Yes, I do know about the warp / multiple scan bug, since I was one of the people who bug reported it. I also realize that the simplest explanation is that KhaniKirai is mistaken, that the whole discussion is totally pointless and academic anyway, and that idle curiosity killed the cat. (But satisfaction brought him back. )
In the last 6 months at least I have never been able to drop a probe in range of another probe. If the OP claims to have been able to do that, then that is a bug and we should report HIM.
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RuleoftheBone
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.17 14:35:00 -
[16]
I've done a bit of testing since the patch. I went hunting specifically for Radar/Mag sites in my losec environs.
Results:
-All previous 4AU-spaced BM's worked fine. Overlap of coverage as normal.
-Overall probe experience remains mind numbing. Perhaps CCP could just implement a countdown timer to the hit so we can go make Canard a l'Orange to be eaten for next round of Quest drops .
-Radar sites more frequent than Mag. Never saw a Ladar or Gravi.
-Hit types STILL only indicate deadspace signature. So if you pick up a Unknown/Radar hit on the Multi probe....you can either go by best guess from sig strength of the hit or keep scanning.
-ISK earned per site ran from 20-70 million. Not bad at all for basically an hour's "work" from first probe drop throught site clearance. No site took longer than 60 minutes...usually had them BM'd within 15-20 minutes of Quest drop. Shame the price of Second Hand Parts and Current Amplifiers took such a sharp drop. I'm sitting on them til they go back up  .
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way"
General George Patton USA
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notaway
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.17 16:27:00 -
[17]
Edited by: notaway on 17/03/2008 16:31:01
Here is info directly from Tips & Tricks in the Players Guide for Exploration:
"More than one probe may be scanned at a time. Highlight all of the probes before clicking Analyze to achieve this effect.
A probe may not be located within the scan range of another probe
If a portion of a probe's scan range overlaps with another probes scan range, the scan effect is enhanced and better results may be generated for signatures found within the overlap "
So u ppl are full of it or the Player Guide is way out of date...U can use multiple probes and scan at the same time and they can overlap as long as the next probe is PLACED outside the other probes' scan ranges (outside the bubbles of the other probes).Tsanse's post after the OP appears to be the only pertinent info---multiple scans from the same probe at the same time was the bug and that's it..
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.03.17 17:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: notaway
So u ppl are full of it or the Player Guide is way out of date...U can use multiple probes and scan at the same time and they can overlap as long as the next probe is PLACED outside the other probes' scan ranges (outside the bubbles of the other probes).Tsanse's post after the OP appears to be the only pertinent info---multiple scans from the same probe at the same time was the bug and that's it..
I think most people understand that, after the OP.
The only question left for me is KhaniKirai's posts, where he seems to be saying that, contrary to people's assumptions,before the patch the game only checked to make sure a dropped probe was not inside the range of one -previously- dropped. For example, let's say you'd only dropped a single Sift. You could switch to a longer range probe like a Quest, and as long as you didn't get closer than .5au, you could drop it as close as you'd like.
Where one person claims one thing and a bunch of other people claim something else, the simplest explanation is that the first person was wrong. So the only reason I'm still wondering about it is 1) it occurred to me that people wouldn't normally drop probes in that specific manner unless they already knew about this hypothetical bug, and 2)none of the people saying otherwise has specifically stated they tried the same technique KhaniKirai is claiming worked.
Not that it matters anyway, but I'm just curious.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.17 19:25:00 -
[19]
KhanKirai is definitely wrong, unless there was a bug very recently. Been two months or so since I dropped my last overlapping probes, but then you could definitely not drop a probe when it was within another probes range, AND you also could NOT do it when another probe was in the new probes range.
There is no 'n' in turret
There is no 'r' in faction
There is no 'a' in Scorpion
There is no 'e' in Caldari
There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.03.17 20:14:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
KhanKirai is definitely wrong, unless there was a bug very recently. Been two months or so since I dropped my last overlapping probes, but then you could definitely not drop a probe when it was within another probes range, AND you also could NOT do it when another probe was in the new probes range.
Thanks Leandro. 
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
KhaniKirai
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.17 20:18:00 -
[21]
Ok, everyone twisting my words it seems.
So explaining it slowly now.
You drop a probe, if you select it in your scanner, you see a forcefield around your probe.
Before patch, you could drop another probe OUTSIDE that forcefield area. That was good enough for the game checks.
But after patch, that is not enough anymore, now you need to be even FURTHER away from the blue forcefield of a probel, to be allowed to put some other probe up. Even when you are OUTSIDE the range of your first probe, you are still not allowed to drop other probes, unless you are even further away.
The exact NEW distance you have to be away now from an existing probe, i dont know yet.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2008.03.17 20:59:00 -
[22]
There actually where a bug when the probe system where released back in revelations where it worked so it only checked the range of current probes in space and not the range of the probe you tried to launch. So you could launch a longer range probe and have completely engulf another shorter range probe. But that bug was fixed over a year ago.
----------------------------------------
A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.03.17 22:16:00 -
[23]
Originally by: KhaniKirai
Ok, everyone twisting my words it seems.
So explaining it slowly now.
You drop a probe, if you select it in your scanner, you see a forcefield around your probe.
Before patch, you could drop another probe OUTSIDE that forcefield area. That was good enough for the game checks.
But after patch, that is not enough anymore, now you need to be even FURTHER away from the blue forcefield of a probel, to be allowed to put some other probe up. Even when you are OUTSIDE the range of your first probe, you are still not allowed to drop other probes, unless you are even further away.
The exact NEW distance you have to be away now from an existing probe, i dont know yet.
Sorry for misunderstanding. The good thing about this though is it's really easy to test. I have a ton of quest BMs set up less than 4.01au from each other.
One question: Are you looking at your actual ranges, or are you just going by the graphics?
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
KhaniKirai
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.17 22:30:00 -
[24]
Going by the graphics as i assume, it will show the correct distance.
Then again, i didnt learn any skill after/during patch that improved my range, so that shouldnt be case either.
Its a bit annoying, since i had bookmarks over most system in the constellation i play mostly and now i had to change several of them, to cover all planets well with quest probes.
Reason i am often using multiple types of probes is also: i scan first for signatures, but if i found 1 signature, i will only remove the quest probes, that will block dropping a pursuit at the red spot i got on map.
After that i scan for signatures and anomalies, since to be honest, the second one is in drone region as much worth as the first ones :/
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pandymen
The Graduates
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.03.17 23:32:00 -
[25]
Edited by: pandymen on 17/03/2008 23:35:42
Khan, no, the other people are right. Here is how probing has worked for quite a while, and will give some examples.
When you drop a probe, it's radius/range cannot encompass any other probes. Simple as that. Their scan "spheres" can overlap...but their scan spheres cannot actually touch the other probes.
Examples:
1. You have quests set up in system. You warp to a spot outside of the range of all those quests and try to launch a multispectral probe (whole system probe) and eve will not let you.
Reason: Multispectral's range encompasses already launched probes. If that multispectral was launched first, all those quests would be in range and wouldn't have been in valid places earlier. This was how it worked pre patch. When checking to see if a site was still in system with quests still up, you had to clear a system of all probes before launching a multispec again.
2. You launch a sift probe. then, you go out of the range of the sift probe (say 1 AU) and try to launch a quest. You were never able to.
Reason: The sift is within 1AU of a quest. So, the 4AU scan "sphere" of the quest actually encompasses the sift probe. Had the quest been there first, it would not have been a valid place to put a sift. Hence, you have to go 4AU away from the sift probe to launch a quest.
NOTE: THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY CAN'T OVERLAP. The actual scan areas can overlap...however, probes cannot be launched so that their radius actually encompasses another probe. It has always worked like this.
You can overlap probes all you want. As long as you are just overlapping quests...it will work perfectly fine for you and works just like it always did for me. I have quests 4.1AU from one another using old BM's no problem.
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Jonathan Calvert
Empire Mining and Trade
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Posted - 2008.03.18 11:59:00 -
[26]
Originally by: KhaniKirai
Ok, everyone twisting my words it seems.
So explaining it slowly now.
You drop a probe, if you select it in your scanner, you see a forcefield around your probe.
Before patch, you could drop another probe OUTSIDE that forcefield area. That was good enough for the game checks.
But after patch, that is not enough anymore, now you need to be even FURTHER away from the blue forcefield of a probel, to be allowed to put some other probe up. Even when you are OUTSIDE the range of your first probe, you are still not allowed to drop other probes, unless you are even further away.
The exact NEW distance you have to be away now from an existing probe, i dont know yet.
Sorry, we arent seeing that either.
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Chewie Soloh
SkillzKillz
United For 0rder
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Posted - 2008.03.18 12:16:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Chewie Soloh on 18/03/2008 12:20:12
whoaaaa slow down there, so basically i cant go put a pursuit probe on every planet as long as they were all 2 au away from each other and then shift click the lot of them then click "analyze"? is that what this means?
If I remember the way it used to go it was useful on inner planets because say from teh sun planet one was (jsut bear with the cardinal directions for a second) 3au South East, planet 2 was 3 au south west, and planet 3 was 3au due north, youd go to each one drop a quest dprobe then shift click all of em in the system scanner tehn click"analyze" and if there was a site inside the inner systems you would find it almost on your first scan
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Jonathan Calvert
Empire Mining and Trade
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Posted - 2008.03.18 12:37:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Chewie Soloh
Edited by: Chewie Soloh on 18/03/2008 12:20:12
whoaaaa slow down there, so basically i cant go put a pursuit probe on every planet as long as they were all 2 au away from each other and then shift click the lot of them then click "analyze"? is that what this means?
If I remember the way it used to go it was useful on inner planets because say from teh sun planet one was (jsut bear with the cardinal directions for a second) 3au South East, planet 2 was 3 au south west, and planet 3 was 3au due north, youd go to each one drop a quest dprobe then shift click all of em in the system scanner tehn click"analyze" and if there was a site inside the inner systems you would find it almost on your first scan
Read the entire thread.
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EvilSpork
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.03.23 04:23:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: KhaniKirai
Sure sure, well i seen it this evening.
I had a pursuit probe at a spot, and i wanted to put a quest probe at a planet nearby, that was way outside the bubble and i get the message, that i am not allowed to put it there, due to overlapping blablabla.
Before the patch that was not even a problem, as long as the drop spot was outside the bubble, you could put any probe up, but now not anymore.
Which effective means, that i had to make more bookmarks to be able to scan everything.
That's interesting. So if I understand you right, potentially you could have dropped a Sift, Comb, Pursuit, and Quest, as long as you did them in that order, and just outside the range of the earlier probes? That's pretty funny.
actually, no. you couldnt do that in the last patch.
you COULD trick it into doing two scan cycles at once though. you can no longer do this though.
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Artmedis Valben
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Posted - 2008.04.03 03:34:00 -
[30]
ROFL
never realized I sometimes did two scans simultaneously.
Just sometimes I hit the scan button to early when warping from the last probe or gate hopping with multispecs, the the scan window would reset and I hit it again to switch pages, just to see the correct page.
Now when I hit too early I no longer see the count down timer :(
Selling: PERFECT PRINTS
T2 SHIPS |
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