| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Kagura Nikon
   |
Posted - 2008.03.19 23:46:00 -
[61]
LOOOL
Concord ignored? You know concord is at LEAST 10 times more powerfull today than it was 2 and half years ago?
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
|
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 00:09:00 -
[62]
To the OP:
Simply let killrights be sold or traded.
Wayyyyy less complicated, and the problem is solved.
|
Xen Gin
The Dragoons
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 00:25:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Xen Gin on 20/03/2008 00:25:36
 Originally by: Hamfast
Dianeces is correct, just because you will not sell to someone else, does not mean I will not...
But don't you think that you should be able to do that? If someone does not want to sell to a certain alliance/corp etc, you should be able too.
'Everyone' wants PVP, the OP sounds like it allows increased PVP in the market. Is that so bad?
|
FuQue
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 00:46:00 -
[64]
I endorse this idea, but i haven't read the entire thread (cause of all the crap).
There are always consequences to a change though. These need to be addressed first and then manipulated so the change doesn't drastically affect something in a negative way.
|
Marthai
Moonvine Industrial Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 01:04:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Doc Fury
To the OP:
Simply let killrights be sold or traded.
Wayyyyy less complicated, and the problem is solved.
Now THIS is a great idea! |
Norjia Blacksteel
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 04:18:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Marthai
Originally by: Doc Fury
To the OP:
Simply let killrights be sold or traded.
Wayyyyy less complicated, and the problem is solved.
Now THIS is a great idea!
Click Doc Fury and click recent posts. He's been seeding that idea wherever he can. Maybe CCP will pick it up. I think it at least merits serious consideration. Maybe Doc should run for the EVE Council with that idea as part of his platform. :)
----
Norjia Blacksteel
CEO
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 04:31:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Doc Fury on 25/03/2008 04:34:41
Originally by: Norjia Blacksteel
Maybe Doc should run for the EVE Council with that idea as part of his platform. :)
Thanks, but I can assure you I have absolutely no intention of ever knowingly participating in a CCP PR stunt. Why would I possibly want to expend substantial personal effort to achieve a position rendered irrelevant before I could even run..
(icelandic chicks are kinda' hawt though...)
edit: also, the kill rights thing is not my original idea, it is an old idea that given current events makes more and more sense.
|
Loyal Servant
Viper Intel Squad
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 04:41:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Loyal Servant on 25/03/2008 04:41:22
Originally by: ghosttr
Id have to agree with the op on this one
Industry characters rarely have any pvp skills, just like pvp chars rarely have many sp invested in industry.
Should the lack of pvp skills mean that the industrialist has no means of countermeasure? No
Should that mean that the industrialist should have to adopt a more pvp-like playstyle? No, even though one should always be vigilant, it shouldn't be a requirement.
The bottom line is that combat shouldn't be the only form of pvp CCP should focus on.
So, you should have a free pass to sit there and make isk with -0- risk?
Meh, get over yourselves. 
I want to see you die next.
Edit: typo.
|
Thornat
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 04:42:00 -
[69]
As usual every Eve forum discussion boils down to tards who shall not remain nameless replying with nothing more than antogonizing comments with zero value, thanks CELOT for continuing the tradition of wasting everyones time.
Now that thats out of the way.
Ghost there are two problems I have with what your saying.
First and foremost it won't really do much to counter suicide ganking for two very big reasons. For starters limiting who you sell to doesn't hurt anyone but you. Even if the community embraced it and embargoed entire corps, the end result would be the creation of new very profitable markets for those people who ignore the embargos. I for example couldn't care less about suicide ganking because I know how to avoid it, because as you mentioned I do it on their terms. Secondly is that suice ganking is not done for profit and while many will come on the forum and lie about how much ISK they make, in the end, every intelegent study of the subject has proven without a doubt that suicide gankers work at a loss and one can only conclude that they do it out of the pleasure of poping people and nothing more.
The second problem I have with this is that we really don't need a counter measure for suicide ganking. Simply put, Eve is not that kind of game despite 'carebearism' trying to force it into that direction. Even the label 'suicide ganking' is really quite incorrect. Suicide ganking is nothing more then a type of piracy operation that is not only legitimate but important to the Eve economy. The so called suicide gankers along with all forms of piracy and PvP keep the wheels of the economy turning. Simply put, stuff needs to be blown up in order for guys like you and me to make stuff and sell it. Without pirates and PvPers the market would literly freeze. The so called suicide gankers are responsible for some of the largest losses in Eve blowing up extremly expensive stuff which is exactly what they target.
In conclusion, while I agree with you that Suicide Ganking is a very hard thing to live with in Empire and I don't like it anymore then you do, I don't like it in the sense that I want to avoid it but I disagree that we need to take measures to eliminate it. I have been on the fence on this topic myself and even argued against it on a number of occassion but when you take the entire scope of the game and all its parts into consideration its quite easy to make the realization that suicide ganking is a critical part of the game. It creates risk even for those who want to live without it which is the very heart and soul of Eve. As CCP has said time and time again, you are never truely safe in Eve. This moto rings true as a conceptual and spiritual (if you can use that word) part of Eve. Without the 'forced' risk on every single player in Eve, it just wouldn't be the same game.
|
Dont Tasemebro
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 05:01:00 -
[70]
I like the freedom of mining in empire. I've been an industrialist in a large nullsec alliance, and I've seen what it is like when Eve stops becoming a hobby and becomes a lifestyle. In Empire, I can mine for a few minutes, go afk in a belt to have a smoke, take a dump, come back, jet my cargo and turn my lasers back on. Sure, I make a mere fraction of what I could make in nullsec, but I was free to do whatever the f*ck I wanted and not have to worry about getting ganked. I'd like nothing more than to taste crokite again, but it comes with way too much stress and heartache.
see, where nullsec is complete freedom for you pvp'ers and metagamers, empire is complete freedom for us casuals and industrialists. Let's keep it that way, before CCP is forced to change the game for us.
|
|
|
Rawr Cristina
Naqam
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 05:07:00 -
[71]
give us the ability to overload DCUs for an extremely brief period of time?
there would be your counter. Pity not a single Hulk pilot would have the sense to use it even if it made TQ 
...
|
Vested Interest
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 05:23:00 -
[72]
This is not a good idea. You don't get to tell the public market brokers who they can and can't sell to. If you want to control access to the marketplace, move to 0.0.
|
Malbolge
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 05:34:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Vested Interest
If you want to control access to the marketplace, move to 0.0.
One might just as easily write "If you want to kill people, move to 0.0."
|
Hippy Dave
University of Caille
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 05:51:00 -
[74]
An interesting but flawed idea which wouldnt work AT ALL and would probably be exploited by the self same 'suicide gankers' to cripple empire play even more..
Besides there already is a way you can fight back without lifting a finger... PAY MERCS OR FRIENDS TO GUARD YOU AND HUNT DOWN GOONS, USE SOME OF THAT FAT PILE OF ISK YOU ARE SITTING ON, THAT ISK IS YOUR NON-PVP WEAPON ....
|
Akiama
Siorai Iontach
Brotherhood of the Spider
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 06:00:00 -
[75]
I wouldn't mind seeing a way to set reputation ratings to determine who can purchase your goods. It'd be a great way to increase legitimate business and put a crimp in the spending of pirates, gankers, and alliances you don't want to sell to. Creating an alt won't work either.
_______________________________________________________________
"Nice work dumbass."
"I've given some thought to moving off the edge. Not an ideal location...maybe a place in the middle." |
Riho
Mercenary Forces
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 07:09:00 -
[76]
Originally by: ghost st
EVE is a sandbox that supports many, many different playstyles, and it usually hapens that a groups of users with a particular playstyle fancy themselves as somehow superior to the other players.
Some people will argue and give varoius countermeasure/excuses. But the fact of the matter is that to counter suicide tactics, you have to play their game, or not play at all.
CCP have done much to improve one aspect of the game while letting the other slide, and in the universal arms race of bigger and better ships and weapons Concord, and other measures to protect these other playstyles have been largely ignored.
I believe that if suicide ganking is to be made fair that CCP should also extend the means of industrial players to effect thier attackers, without forcing them to adopt the same playstyle as the attacker.
We already know that pvp players have the option of suicide ganking as a means to attack miners, and ohter industrialists. But industrialists should have their own tools to combat these tactics in thier own way.
I believe that CCP should introduce a system where miners and other industrialists can pick and choose who they buy from and who they sell to.
This set of pvp tools for industrialists should allow them to specify, by means of standings. Who can buy thier items, or who they will sell thier products too.
This will make it so campaigns such as the on that goonswarm has running could have negative repercussions from thier actions, without forcing industrialists to adopt pvp playstyles. And will make it so that attacking industrialists could have added long-term consequences, as or more severe than the options pvp pilots have to attack industrialists.
the solution is not hauling stuff afk, not mining afk.... use it or die afk
----------------------------------
This is Me, fighting stupidity one post at a time.
PS: There are no computer BUGs, there is stuff called "Random Features"
|
Kyanzes
Utopian Research I.E.L.
Hedonistic Imperative
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 07:19:00 -
[77]
Originally by: ghost st
---------------------------------------------
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!!
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. |
Shintai
Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 07:45:00 -
[78]
What good are killrights if its an alt that hardly logs on and gets recycled? What good is tanking your exhumer if there is 2BS or 4 BC/CR on you since they cost nothing? LOL!
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Gamesguy
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 07:48:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Shintai
What good are killrights if its an alt that hardly logs on and gets recycled? What good is tanking your exhumer if there is 2BS or 4 BC/CR on you since they cost nothing? LOL!
Recycling alts for that purpose is an exploit, and low sp alts really don't do much dps. Most people gank with their combat mains, not their alts.
And you could always goto 0.0 and kill him when hes ratting. Fairly easy to use an alt to locate via locator agent.
|
Asheru
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 09:22:00 -
[80]
You can rat for 3-4 minutes in 0.0 and kill a 1mil ISK bounty rat with relatively little risk if you watch local and stay aligned for a POS/SS.
An empire miner can mine 1 million ISK worth of pyerite and trit in about 30-40 minutes. I think those risk versus rewards are pretty fair.
|
|
|
Avon
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 09:23:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Avon on 25/03/2008 09:24:57
Edited by: Avon on 25/03/2008 09:24:11
Lots of people here seem to be going off on some crazy tangents tbh.
Yes, industrialists should be able to blacklist individuals, corps, and alliances from their sales* if they so desire.
*forgot security status and standings.**
** and character race, for those dirty roleplayers :P
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Corstaad
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 09:28:00 -
[82]
Take a wild guess what happen to me today? I got ganked by a bunch of stealth bombers. Didn't look at local went in for bait and looked for a easy kill. Died wasn't even a fair fight. 15 mins after aggresion let up I got in another ship and had fun. I have no clue why you can't figure out this game, none.
|
Jack Jombardo
The Last Samurais
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 09:47:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Originally by: ghost st
Some people will argue and give varoius countermeasure/excuses. But the fact of the matter is that to counter suicide tactics, you have to play their game, or not play at all.
There is a counter. Its called killrights. Failed whine. You fail at eve. Im sorry.
No, killright is NO counter.
A dedicated trader/miner/hauler has close to no fight skills. Some can't even fly a Cruiser with medium Weapons. How the heck should they kill a dedicated fighter even with killrights? Bouncing them to death? MEGA ROFL!
A correct counter mesure would allow the victim to react INSTANTLY with the posibility to stay alive!
100% fail @Angelic Eviaran
|
Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 11:02:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain
See that thing on your Character Sheet labeled 'Kill Rights'?
....There's your counter. 
to stupid for words......
Anyone that thinks kill rights are even vaguely an effective countermeasure is an idiot.
However....
TRANSFERABLE kill rights would work wonderfully.
Right now if a carebear miner gets suicide ganked, he often lacks the skills to use the kill right. But if he could give that kill right to a combat skilled friend or alt, all would be well in the world.
Play nice while you butcher each other.
|
mcnuggetlol
O.W.N. Corp
United Freemen Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 11:03:00 -
[85]
How about you gather some people together and fight back?
There's nothing stopping you. 
|
mahj
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 11:07:00 -
[86]
Edited by: mahj on 25/03/2008 11:07:40
EVE does seem to support terrorists, in RL the big corps (usa) would wipe out there POS's (country) camp there stations (caves). burn there roid feilds (poppy feilds) and put huge bounties on any they could not find (Bin laden) Is EVE anti social? anti civilisation? Hmm maybe ***** is hiding in iceland!!
|
Bignfurrie
Phoenix Horizons Inc
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 11:10:00 -
[87]
Friend $$ Market $$ and Enemy $$......three pricing levels for selling. Dont forget the auctioning of kill rights threw contracts, that would be real bounty hunting and bring our real anti pirate corps. Corps that just buy up these kill rights. You want more PVP then make a push to have kill rights added to the contracts page.
|
Mar'Dur Taren
The Copernicus Institute
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 13:03:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Mar''Dur Taren on 25/03/2008 13:04:37
I like the OP's idea. Have it as a setting on the market screen for a set location. ie. Orders at such'n'such station have these restrictions. Easier than attaching the limits to the item. I'd like to have the option of saying that I wont sell to people with low sec ratings too.
I'd also like the ability to see who I'm buying from and choose my supplier. That way I can choose not to buy from Goons or whoever. Use my isk as a weapon. I don't have enough for mercs. The seller is already listed as part of the order (from the logs I've seen). Shouldn't be to hard to implement. Get rid of that damned "buy from the lowest guy" mechanism.
To the people who say "fight back". Well the first problem is that suicide gankers are hiding behind CONCORD. You can't do anything about them until they take you out. Worse still, only the guy loosing the ship gets kill rights, his corp can't help. It would be nice if the corp got "kill rights" for unprovoked attacks on members. That way the corp navy could do something.
To the people who say "pay attention". People have lives and often have to squeeze R&R around them. That is kinda what empire has become. A place for everyone who wants to Eve but can't commit huge chunks of time to it. Since there is a place where PvPers can go for their fix in low sec why penalize the part timers? They are paying for the game still.
To the people who say "Its a PvP game". Take out the markets, manufacturing, mining, POS, blueprints, haulers, etc. Its would be pretty dull as just a PvP game. I'd go somewhere else. The game is more complex than just PvP and trying to force a PvP-centric viewpoint on the community is wrong. Besides, wars are won and lost more by logistics than just troops.
|
Boomershoot
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
Deus Ex.
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 13:11:00 -
[89]
AHAH OH WOW.
the forums are quite useless since the goon started the "pack your thingy and come mine OUR ice" campaing.
well, only thing i can say is: killrights. no, transferable killrights can be exploited (in more than one way) and is not good for a thousand of reason (bounty hunters? don't make me laugh, they never existed, nor they will ever do).
umh...do what goonies said? you know, moving to minmatar ice belts. it's easy.
and yes, you have to tank your hulk.
__________________________________________________
Not A Signature.
Will be Replaced by A Signature Soon(tm) |
Nyabinghi
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2008.03.25 14:48:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Mar'Dur Taren
Edited by: Mar''Dur Taren on 25/03/2008 13:04:37
I like the OP's idea. Have it as a setting on the market screen for a set location. ie. Orders at such'n'such station have these restrictions. Easier than attaching the limits to the item. I'd like to have the option of saying that I wont sell to people with low sec ratings too.
I'd also like the ability to see who I'm buying from and choose my supplier. That way I can choose not to buy from Goons or whoever. Use my isk as a weapon. I don't have enough for mercs. The seller is already listed as part of the order (from the logs I've seen). Shouldn't be to hard to implement. Get rid of that damned "buy from the lowest guy" mechanism.
To the people who say "fight back". Well the first problem is that suicide gankers are hiding behind CONCORD. You can't do anything about them until they take you out. Worse still, only the guy loosing the ship gets kill rights, his corp can't help. It would be nice if the corp got "kill rights" for unprovoked attacks on members. That way the corp navy could do something.
To the people who say "pay attention". People have lives and often have to squeeze R&R around them. That is kinda what empire has become. A place for everyone who wants to Eve but can't commit huge chunks of time to it. Since there is a place where PvPers can go for their fix in low sec why penalize the part timers? They are paying for the game still.
To the people who say "Its a PvP game". Take out the markets, manufacturing, mining, POS, blueprints, haulers, etc. Its would be pretty dull as just a PvP game. I'd go somewhere else. The game is more complex than just PvP and trying to force a PvP-centric viewpoint on the community is wrong. Besides, wars are won and lost more by logistics than just troops.
First off EVE needs more positive goals. Not just war and the military industrial complex that supports it. Second of all I strongly suggest players begin setting up their own preferred buyers/sellers list and keep trade strictly within themselves. In fact you could bypass the isk system and simply trade goods for goods (yay no taxes!)
***
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |