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Suicide Ganks, Give us equal countermeasures CCP!

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ghost st The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:31:00 - [1] EVE is a sandbox that supports many, many different playstyles, and it usually hapens that a groups of users with a particular playstyle fancy themselves as somehow superior to the other players. Some people will argue and give varoius countermeasure/excuses. But the fact of the matter is that to counter suicide tactics, you have to play their game, or not play at all. CCP have done much to improve one aspect of the game while letting the other slide, and in the universal arms race of bigger and better ships and weapons Concord, and other measures to protect these other playstyles have been largely ignored. I believe that if suicide ganking is to be made fair that CCP should also extend the means of industrial players to effect thier attackers, without forcing them to adopt the same playstyle as the attacker. We already know that pvp players have the option of suicide ganking as a means to attack miners, and ohter industrialists. But industrialists should have their own tools to combat these tactics in thier own way. I believe that CCP should introduce a system where miners and other industrialists can pick and choose who they buy from and who they sell to. This set of pvp tools for industrialists should allow them to specify, by means of standings. Who can buy thier items, or who they will sell thier products too. This will make it so campaigns such as the on that goonswarm has running could have negative repercussions from thier actions, without forcing industrialists to adopt pvp playstyles. And will make it so that attacking industrialists could have added long-term consequences, as or more severe than the options pvp pilots have to attack industrialists.
Celot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:34:00 - [2] it's called the gistii a-type small shield booster :rolleyes: oh and stop spamming, you're ruining my forum experience
Bellum Eternus Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:35:00 - [3] Originally by: ghost st EVE is a sandbox that supports many, many different playstyles, and it usually hapens that a groups of users with a particular playstyle fancy themselves as somehow superior to the other players. Some people will argue and give varoius countermeasure/excuses. But the fact of the matter is that to counter suicide tactics, you have to play their game, or not play at all. CCP have done much to improve one aspect of the game while letting the other slide, and in the universal arms race of bigger and better ships and weapons Concord, and other measures to protect these other playstyles have been largely ignored. I believe that if suicide ganking is to be made fair that CCP should also extend the means of industrial players to effect thier attackers, without forcing them to adopt the same playstyle as the attacker. We already know that pvp players have the option of suicide ganking as a means to attack miners, and ohter industrialists. But industrialists should have their own tools to combat these tactics in thier own way. I believe that CCP should introduce a system where miners and other industrialists can pick and choose who they buy from and who they sell to. This set of pvp tools for industrialists should allow them to specify, by means of standings. Who can buy thier items, or who they will sell thier products too. This will make it so campaigns such as the on that goonswarm has running could have negative repercussions from thier actions, without forcing industrialists to adopt pvp playstyles. And will make it so that attacking industrialists could have added long-term consequences, as or more severe than the options pvp pilots have to attack industrialists. Very cool idea!!!!! AWESOME!!!! Frankly sir, I'm just astounded. What a brilliant idea. People could embargo/boycott entire alliances, the NPC corps, anything. Awesome awesome awesome. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Kuar Z'thain Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:37:00 - [4] See that thing on your Character Sheet labeled 'Kill Rights'? ....There's your counter.
Angelic Eviaran University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:39:00 - [5] Originally by: ghost st Some people will argue and give varoius countermeasure/excuses. But the fact of the matter is that to counter suicide tactics, you have to play their game, or not play at all. There is a counter. Its called killrights. Failed whine. You fail at eve. Im sorry.
Dianeces Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:39:00 - [6] Originally by: ghost st EVE is a sandbox that supports many, many different playstyles, and it usually hapens that a groups of users with a particular playstyle fancy themselves as somehow superior to the other players. Some people will argue and give varoius countermeasure/excuses. But the fact of the matter is that to counter suicide tactics, you have to play their game, or not play at all. CCP have done much to improve one aspect of the game while letting the other slide, and in the universal arms race of bigger and better ships and weapons Concord, and other measures to protect these other playstyles have been largely ignored. I believe that if suicide ganking is to be made fair that CCP should also extend the means of industrial players to effect thier attackers, without forcing them to adopt the same playstyle as the attacker. We already know that pvp players have the option of suicide ganking as a means to attack miners, and ohter industrialists. But industrialists should have their own tools to combat these tactics in thier own way. I believe that CCP should introduce a system where miners and other industrialists can pick and choose who they buy from and who they sell to. This set of pvp tools for industrialists should allow them to specify, by means of standings. Who can buy thier items, or who they will sell thier products too. This will make it so campaigns such as the on that goonswarm has running could have negative repercussions from thier actions, without forcing industrialists to adopt pvp playstyles. And will make it so that attacking industrialists could have added long-term consequences, as or more severe than the options pvp pilots have to attack industrialists. Because GoonSwarm doesn't build their own ships, amirite?
Ikasu Scrutari The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:39:00 - [7] I actually love this idea, it's something we've needed for awhile anyway. It should provide some realistic consequences to killing miners. Killing your own personal economy. Pa-owned. --------------------------------------------------
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Kuar Z'thain See that thing on your Character Sheet labeled 'Kill Rights'? ....There's your counter. ... like that works the way it was intended .. or like a 15M SPS industrialist is going to opt into fighting fire with fire given that isn't his strength and go against a 25M SPS ganker. I kind of like the OPs point that you don't need to PvP to get back at PvPers.
Black Scorpio Impending Doom Inc. The Crimson Federation	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:41:00 - [9] I like this OP's idea, as you can enable industry play it's role in PvP as well. Ofc, though it will be of little use overall, as anyone can roll an alt from an npc or another corp and purchase the same products on preferential prices.
Sakura Nihil Stimulus	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:42:00 - [10] Keep in mind something. While a "boycott" feature could be done, something that would prevent you from selling to a player/corp/alliance, its bypassable. All it takes is an alt. Kudos to thinking outside the box of "stop them" and rather saying "help me stop them". Its a start. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk i'm not a very good gambler

Fager Xel'Naga Corp Cold Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:44:00 - [11] Originally by: Kuar Z'thain See that thing on your Character Sheet labeled 'Kill Rights'? ....There's your counter. A counter a PvE player cant use, duh.. However these sell rights can be cheated throu alts (oh yeah, burn the alts to hell) and second accounts. Expanding on the idea, for industualists to configure their items to require something (think a T2 tychoon thats standard to other T2 only the builder put a limit on it so only ppl with concord/caldari/galente/... faction standingof 1.0/2.0/-5.0 higher or lower can use this item. Expanding more, could be countered with hacking by the using pilot perhaps? ??? profit "I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
Dianeces Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:44:00 - [12] Originally by: Eventy One Originally by: Kuar Z'thain See that thing on your Character Sheet labeled 'Kill Rights'? ....There's your counter. ... like that works the way it was intended .. or like a 15M SPS industrialist is going to opt into fighting fire with fire given that isn't his strength and go against a 25M SPS ganker. I kind of like the OPs point that you don't need to PvP to get back at PvPers. Yes. Because every single person who suicide ganks has 25m SP.
ghost st The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:45:00 - [13] Originally by: Sakura Nihil Keep in mind something. While a "boycott" feature could be done, something that would prevent you from selling to a player/corp/alliance, its bypassable. All it takes is an alt. Kudos to thinking outside the box of "stop them" and rather saying "help me stop them". Its a start. The point would be to make it as inconvenient as possible. Every player would need an alt, it would take longer to get things and be a pain in the ass to get a ship and fit it. YOu could also just set only blues to buy your stuff
Brigitte Helm Flying Fox Industries	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:45:00 - [14] Originally by: ghost st I believe that CCP should introduce a system where miners and other industrialists can pick and choose who they buy from and who they sell to. I fully support this idea. Industrial should be able to fight in there normal pvp method.. buy/sell rights. Kill rights is for pewpew pvp. I cant see it becoming part of eve for technical reason of the database load in the background.. but hey.. Hug a Carebear, Kill a pirate, squish a Rat, and tickle a dev. Make Eve fun....
Sir Bloodclaw Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:45:00 - [15] In the spirit of this offensive behaviour by the goons and their whole purely provocative Allah/jihad campaign, I want a mining barge that can be fitted with a cloak and a small scale doomsday. So I can take it to their home systems.
Aprudena Gist GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:46:00 - [16] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Eventy One Originally by: Kuar Z'thain See that thing on your Character Sheet labeled 'Kill Rights'? ....There's your counter. ... like that works the way it was intended .. or like a 15M SPS industrialist is going to opt into fighting fire with fire given that isn't his strength and go against a 25M SPS ganker. I kind of like the OPs point that you don't need to PvP to get back at PvPers. Yes. Because every single person who suicide ganks has 25m SP. i passed 12 million sp the other day.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Dianeces Yes. Because every single person who suicide ganks has 25m SP. That was was we call an "example" Its something logical people know - one only need to find one exception to a rule to prove something isn't true in all cases.
Celot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:46:00 - [18] Edited by: Celot on 19/03/2008 20:46:53 just passed 19m SP crew with second most all-time empire exhumer kills checkin in :coolshark:
Dianeces Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:47:00 - [19] Originally by: Aprudena Gist i passed 12 million sp the other day. That's cool. I just hit 16m. Have I mentioned gank Thoraxes are fantastic?
JADE DRAG0NESS Dark Scorpions Fate Weavers	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:47:00 - [20] A gist type shield booster. A hull mod A friend The map [ship kill settings]. A nanofibre or 2 to speed up warp out. A high end hauler such as an Ity 4-5 A tech 2 hauler Split your load into smaller parts and haul in a fast ship. Try a different route. And so on. Eve is a sandbox game and its not really TOO hard to come up with ways to increase your chances at getting past such obsticles. "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand

Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:50:00 - [21] Originally by: Dianeces Because GoonSwarm doesn't build their own ships, amirite? they reallocate doomsday device resources to tech 1 frigates, its brilliant I say BRILLIANT! also there are plenty of ways to avoid ganks
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:51:00 - [22] Edited by: Eventy One on 19/03/2008 20:52:14 Originally by: Dianeces What about 3 exceptions? Because there have been that many in this thread already. Those three exceptions further validate my point! Or are you completely illogical. The OP points out that an industrialist carebear should not have to engage in PvP to get back at the gankers. The fact that there are any exceptions to the rule that a carebear industrialist has skills enough or better to PvP the gankers shows that his point stands. Further even if the ganked has the same skills as the ganker but has them invested in industry rather than combat makes his point more strongly still. Now that I've reduced his point to the lowest common denominator .. feel free to mull it over a bit before you reply. It'll save me time and you ... well .. you know.
Nyabinghi Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:54:00 - [23] Ages ago I suggested a "preferred customer list". Essentially it works not unlike trading within an Alliance where instead of just buying & selling openly on the market you set up a client list of friendlies that you buy and sell with exclusively. The success depends upon sticking within the system for all parties involved. Selling your stuff to the guy who's gonna gank you or others like you kinda makes no sense unless you are a masochist. ***
Dianeces Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:54:00 - [24] Originally by: Eventy One Edited by: Eventy One on 19/03/2008 20:52:14 Originally by: Dianeces What about 3 exceptions? Because there have been that many in this thread already. Those three exceptions further validate my point! Or are you completely illogical. The OP points out that an industrialist carebear should not have to engage in PvP to get back at the gankers. The fact that there are any exceptions to the rule that a carebear industrialist has skills enough or better to PvP the gankers shows that his point stands. Further even if the ganked has the same skills as the ganker but has them invested in industry rather than combat makes his point more strongly still. Now that I've reduced his point to the lowest common denominator .. feel free to mull it over a bit before you reply. It'll save me time and you ... well .. you know. If I were as dumb as you are trying to portray me as, I wouldn't know. Thankfully, I seem to be brighter than your condescention would suggest.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:57:00 - [25] Originally by: Dianeces If I were as dumb as you are trying to portray me as, I wouldn't know. Thankfully, I seem to be brighter than your condescention would suggest. If you have to boast about your own intellect, at least one person is convinced that you are correct.
Dianeces Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:03:00 - [26] Originally by: Hamfast Originally by: Celot it's called the gistii a-type small shield booster :rolleyes: oh and stop spamming, you're ruining my forum experience Talk about spreading lies... read this thread... your shield booster will not help, you need a passive tank... you just hope the gistii a-type small shield booster survives so you can loot it with your alt... I am shocked; nay, appalled that you would suggest such valuable members of our Eve community would seek to give flagrantly false advice in the hope of lining their own pockets. Have you no decency, sir?
Bellum Eternus Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Hamfast Originally by: Celot it's called the gistii a-type small shield booster :rolleyes: oh and stop spamming, you're ruining my forum experience Talk about spreading lies... read this thread... your shield booster will not help, you need a passive tank... you just hope the gistii a-type small shield booster survives so you can loot it with your alt... I am shocked; nay, appalled that you would suggest such valuable members of our Eve community would seek to give flagrantly false advice in the hope of lining their own pockets. Have you no decency, sir? Heeee hee hee hee hee.... Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Hamfast Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:08:00 - [28] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Hamfast Originally by: Celot it's called the gistii a-type small shield booster :rolleyes: oh and stop spamming, you're ruining my forum experience Talk about spreading lies... read this thread... your shield booster will not help, you need a passive tank... you just hope the gistii a-type small shield booster survives so you can loot it with your alt... I am shocked; nay, appalled that you would suggest such valuable members of our Eve community would seek to give flagrantly false advice in the hope of lining their own pockets. Have you no decency, sir? Let me check my pockets... Wait, who is to say this is a Valuable member of our eve community, have you read his posts? as to your underlying question... you bet I would... and I can't wait to get home and refit my exhumers and haulers... --------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
Dianeces Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:10:00 - [29] Originally by: Hamfast Let me check my pockets... Wait, who is to say this is a Valuable member of our eve community, have you read his posts? as to your underlying question... you bet I would... and I can't wait to get home and refit my exhumers and haulers... In addition to failing at forums, you also fail at sarcasm. You might wish to train that past level one for future forum excursions.
Ulstan Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:11:00 - [30] What if you could sell kill rights to bounty hunters? I think that would be the most awesome fix, as it might make bounty hunting actually worth a crap :p

Naervic The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:15:00 - [31] Edited by: Naervic on 19/03/2008 21:15:44 I like the OP's idea... I would even go a step further and to prevent alts and such from buying and then selling to their mains. The equipment would be locked out from being used by whoever the industrialist chose. Say an industrialist doesn't want to sell to Goonsquad due to their flagrant destruction of miners, then he can lock out all equipment he's using so that it will not activate or work when used. Now of course there should be a way to get around this perhaps pricey hacking of the module/ship/ammo. The idea gives a way for industrialists to wage economic warfare putting embargoes on those they don't like. If such organizations are big and cohesive enough they can put an equipment strain on alliances. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
Quelque Chose University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:15:00 - [32] Originally by: Ulstan What if you could sell kill rights to bounty hunters? I think that would be the most awesome fix, as it might make bounty hunting actually worth a crap :p Selling to bounty hunters wouldn't really work because you have to podkill to collect the bounty and that'll get you concorded. Also I don't think that would do much to stop suicide squads in the first place. That said though, transferable kill rights just sound completely cool to me so /signed. ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
Wadaya Trailerpark Industries	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:15:00 - [33] Originally by: ghost st I believe that CCP should introduce a system where miners and other industrialists can pick and choose who they buy from and who they sell to. Any serious Industrialist would sell to both sides of a conflict. Wad
ghost st The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:18:00 - [34] Originally by: Wadaya Originally by: ghost st I believe that CCP should introduce a system where miners and other industrialists can pick and choose who they buy from and who they sell to. Any serious Industrialist would sell to both sides of a conflict. Wad That would be part of the risk of industrial pvp, you risk reduced profits. But your reward/goal is to starve your enemy of supplies.
Dianeces Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:19:00 - [35] Originally by: ghost st Originally by: Wadaya Originally by: ghost st I believe that CCP should introduce a system where miners and other industrialists can pick and choose who they buy from and who they sell to. Any serious Industrialist would sell to both sides of a conflict. Wad That would be part of the risk of industrial pvp, you risk reduced profits. But your reward/goal is to starve your enemy of supplies. Someone else not as shortsighted as you would step in to fill the shortage. So basically, you'd be shooting yourself in the foot. Therefore, I must go ahead and /sign this so I have more stupid people to laugh at.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:20:00 - [36] Originally by: Hamfast Originally by: Celot it's called the gistii a-type small shield booster :rolleyes: oh and stop spamming, you're ruining my forum experience Talk about spreading lies... read this thread... your shield booster will not help, you need a passive tank... you just hope the gistii a-type small shield booster survives so you can loot it with your alt... the gisti a type has a 2 second activation time. it will cycle a few times before they can get a second volley off, with some resistances you should be able to tank em
Celot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:23:00 - [37] well sure it's not a 100% fix, if we want to kill you we'll just get a BS and a cruiser to double penetrate you and there's no tank that can defend against it. But if you want to make it so that the most common attack ship, the solo blaster brutix, can't kill you, just fit a gistii a or pith shield booster
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:24:00 - [38] Originally by: Sakura Nihil While a "boycott" feature could be done, something that would prevent you from selling to a player/corp/alliance, its bypassable. All it takes is an alt. Heh heh. Get a wingman. Or something ;) Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Naervic The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:26:00 - [39] Originally by: Dianeces Someone else not as shortsighted as you would step in to fill the shortage. So basically, you'd be shooting yourself in the foot. Therefore, I must go ahead and /sign this so I have more stupid people to laugh at. I think he's referring to Goonsquad who has targetted a large number of industrialists. Now if this large number refused to sell to Goonsquad, they could be put under alot of strain depending on the size of their own economic branches. Also if the boycotting industrialists hold expensive tech II BPO's or are primary inventors of certain ships and modules, then Goonsquad could not gain access to these items. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
Morfane The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:27:00 - [40] How would you stop your enemies from using alts to buy stuff? Aside from that, how would this actually function? Realistically, you would have to make those market orders invisible to your enemies, which would cause quite a thrashing on the market db server. Not to mention the current logic that dictates that the lowest order is the one you buy from would have to be changed, and I imagine that might be a big deal (as I doubt they would put that limitation in for nothing). Solving problem 2 is easy: just throw money at it. The first question I posed, however, has no solution I am aware of.

Quelque Chose University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:27:00 - [41] Originally by: Naervic Originally by: Dianeces Also if the boycotting industrialists hold expensive tech II BPO's or are primary inventors of certain ships and modules, then Goonsquad could not gain access to these items. A T2 boycott against goons would be like an air conditioner boycott against Alaska. rimshot ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
CRUSH BOSS BigMek Industries GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:28:00 - [42] Originally by: Sir Bloodclaw In the spirit of this offensive behaviour by the goons and their whole purely provocative Allah/jihad campaign, I want a mining barge that can be fitted with a cloak and a small scale doomsday. So I can take it to their home systems. And do what, speak harsh words in local after it gets ganked? We fight for the ONE - We die for the ONE Don't troll in your signature please. -Hango
Naervic The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:31:00 - [43] Originally by: Morfane How would you stop your enemies from using alts to buy stuff? Aside from that, how would this actually function? Realistically, you would have to make those market orders invisible to your enemies, which would cause quite a thrashing on the market db server. Not to mention the current logic that dictates that the lowest order is the one you buy from would have to be changed, and I imagine that might be a big deal (as I doubt they would put that limitation in for nothing). Solving problem 2 is easy: just throw money at it. The first question I posed, however, has no solution I am aware of. Like I posted above, to prevent this from happening, industrialists could actually create their equipment to lock out certain alliances or corporations. Thus there would have to be no change on the market db server, except to maybe to highlight in red certain equipment they cannot use due to their affiliation. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
Kuar Z'thain Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:32:00 - [44] Edited by: Kuar Z''thain on 19/03/2008 21:34:45 I see the Troll-Sensors are a bit off today. As to the OP, you would instantly create a black market with 1-day old alts buying gear for the factions you are trying to boycott. Adding a "Can My Alliance Use This" modifier to the code might not seem hard, but I'd be willing to bet you're barking up the wrong tree with that suggestion. I like the idea of being able to transfer Kill Rights and I think we should discuss this option further.
Khanid Kutie I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:36:00 - [45] Originally by: ghost st Suicide Ganks, Give us equal countermeasures CCP! Ok so heres an idea. You already have a countermeasure, its called paying attention to whats going on around you. Surprisingly, it doesnt require CCP to nerf anything, it just requires you to do something else besides "set it and forget it" when u mine. ____________________________________________ Originally by: Thargat They should change the name of CAOD to EvE Zoo. Please to not feed the animals.
Securion Wolfheart Not Like Most	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:37:00 - [46] !!! I believe that CCP should introduce a system where miners and other industrialists can pick and choose who they buy from and who they sell to. This set of pvp tools for industrialists should allow them to specify, by means of standings. Who can buy thier items, or who they will sell thier products too. This is the best idea ive ever heard off in or out of EVE. Ever. Simply brilliant. Economic power. Brilliant. Awesome. Excellent. Im amazed. Omg... The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns...
Christari Zuborov Ore Mongers	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:37:00 - [47] I don't see any reason why you couldn't have 3 options for selling: an inclusive relationship, where you add members, alliances, and corps to a list for purchasing. an exclusive relationship, where you add members, alliances, and corps to a list for exclusion. and a simple, it doesn't matter who you are option for purchasing. That would cover all of the bases. Issues are: database strain - there's a lot of items out there, and it would take a bit of horsepower to sort through for every request to purchase anything. faction outposts - these are owned by no one, but used by many. You cannot prevent individuals from docking there, but should you be allowed to dictate what's for sale in that station? Outside of these issues, which have been brought up before, I still think it's a good idea. This would be a boost to industrial PVP, and I strongly suggest that CCP at least investigate it's possibility.
Hamfast Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:38:00 - [48] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Hamfast Originally by: Celot it's called the gistii a-type small shield booster :rolleyes: oh and stop spamming, you're ruining my forum experience Talk about spreading lies... read this thread... your shield booster will not help, you need a passive tank... you just hope the gistii a-type small shield booster survives so you can loot it with your alt... the gisti a type has a 2 second activation time. it will cycle a few times before they can get a second volley off, with some resistances you should be able to tank em Having seen (but not been the target of) an attack, the 2 second start up time may not have helped much... in fact the gankers were bragging in local even before Concord arrived (.7 space)... the second attack came with concord in the area and took out 2 or 3 miners and a hauler (Pods included) with Smart bombs... but they were in barges not exhumers (first attack was a Hulk). The Ganker ended up with a -6.7 sec rating... I will grant that if someone really wants to gank you, you will be ganked... and as much as I hate to admit it: Originally by: Dianeces Someone else not as shortsighted as you would step in to fill the shortage. So basically, you'd be shooting yourself in the foot. Therefore, I must go ahead and /sign this so I have more stupid people to laugh at. Dianeces is correct, just because you will not sell to someone else, does not mean I will not... --------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
ghosttr ARK-CORP SATRAPY	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:56:00 - [49] Originally by: Kuar Z'thain Edited by: Kuar Z''thain on 19/03/2008 21:34:45 I see the Troll-Sensors are a bit off today. As to the OP, you would instantly create a black market with 1-day old alts buying gear for the factions you are trying to boycott. This is why we have taxes and such, the items passing hands that way would come at increased costs, and of course be a pain in the ass. My Blog
Inconstant Moon Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:57:00 - [50] All actions are permissible, so long as every action has a counter. It ought to be Eve's golden rule. Anyway, it's time for some balance (it's been four years since the first kestrels did this, now it's fleets of ravens). There have been many good suggestions in this thread and others, suggestions that would enhance the game and not ruin it for anyone, carebears and gankers alike.

Celot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.19 22:01:00 - [51] If every ship could counter every other ship regardless of its setup, we would all fly velators
Inconstant Moon	Posted - 2008.03.19 22:08:00 - [52] Originally by: Celot If every ship could counter every other ship regardless of its setup, we would all fly velators Point nicely missed. Goon, perchance?
Dianeces	Posted - 2008.03.19 22:10:00 - [53] Originally by: Inconstant Moon Originally by: Celot If every ship could counter every other ship regardless of its setup, we would all fly velators Point nicely missed. Goon, perchance? I'm glad to see such quality from the Eve-O forumgoers. Try reading corp tag next time? Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Inconstant Moon	Posted - 2008.03.19 22:11:00 - [54] Originally by: Dianeces I'm glad to see such quality from the Eve-O forumgoers. Try reading corp tag next time? I do not see any corp tag, perhaps I have neutered my forum view?
Dianeces Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.03.19 22:26:00 - [55] Originally by: Celot perhaps you should definitely get out Gonna second this.
Inconstant Moon Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.19 22:31:00 - [56] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Celot perhaps you should definitely get out Gonna second this. Dear sirs, I apologise for my offence.
Cedricon Centari The Phalanx Expeditionary Conglomerate Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2008.03.19 22:39:00 - [57] easiest fix, anyone that gets blown up by concord 3 times gets banned from hi sec. problem solved!
Celot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.19 22:42:00 - [58] Originally by: Cedricon Centari easiest fix, anyone that gets blown up by concord 3 times gets banned from hi sec. problem solved! you too
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.19 23:04:00 - [59] Originally by: Cedricon Centari easiest fix, anyone that gets blown up by concord 3 times gets banned from hi sec. problem solved! Most hilarious fix: anyone who gets suicide ganked 3 times gets banned. Problem solved. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Nyabinghi	Posted - 2008.03.19 23:35:00 - [60] You don't actually need an adjustment to the market interface to do a preferred sellers/buyers list, though it be nice. Just set up a web page and create the list yourself, who to buy/sell from/to and who not to. The more people adhere to it (might mean not getting top isk) the more effective it is. Avoid the open market, make all trades to individuals, corps, alliances you approve of. You can make the page accessible via the ingame browser and even set up a complimentary in game channel. United you stand, divided you fall. *** Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Kagura Nikon	Posted - 2008.03.19 23:46:00 - [61] LOOOL Concord ignored? You know concord is at LEAST 10 times more powerfull today than it was 2 and half years ago? ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Doc Fury Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.03.20 00:09:00 - [62] To the OP: Simply let killrights be sold or traded. Wayyyyy less complicated, and the problem is solved.
Xen Gin The Dragoons	Posted - 2008.03.20 00:25:00 - [63] Edited by: Xen Gin on 20/03/2008 00:25:36 Originally by: Hamfast Dianeces is correct, just because you will not sell to someone else, does not mean I will not... But don't you think that you should be able to do that? If someone does not want to sell to a certain alliance/corp etc, you should be able too. 'Everyone' wants PVP, the OP sounds like it allows increased PVP in the market. Is that so bad?
FuQue Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.20 00:46:00 - [64] I endorse this idea, but i haven't read the entire thread (cause of all the crap). There are always consequences to a change though. These need to be addressed first and then manipulated so the change doesn't drastically affect something in a negative way.
Marthai Moonvine Industrial Corporation	Posted - 2008.03.20 01:04:00 - [65] Originally by: Doc Fury To the OP: Simply let killrights be sold or traded. Wayyyyy less complicated, and the problem is solved. Now THIS is a great idea!
Norjia Blacksteel Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2008.03.25 04:18:00 - [66] Originally by: Marthai Originally by: Doc Fury To the OP: Simply let killrights be sold or traded. Wayyyyy less complicated, and the problem is solved. Now THIS is a great idea! Click Doc Fury and click recent posts. He's been seeding that idea wherever he can. Maybe CCP will pick it up. I think it at least merits serious consideration. Maybe Doc should run for the EVE Council with that idea as part of his platform. :) ---- Norjia Blacksteel CEO Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
Doc Fury Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.03.25 04:31:00 - [67] Edited by: Doc Fury on 25/03/2008 04:34:41 Originally by: Norjia Blacksteel Maybe Doc should run for the EVE Council with that idea as part of his platform. :) Thanks, but I can assure you I have absolutely no intention of ever knowingly participating in a CCP PR stunt. Why would I possibly want to expend substantial personal effort to achieve a position rendered irrelevant before I could even run.. (icelandic chicks are kinda' hawt though...) edit: also, the kill rights thing is not my original idea, it is an old idea that given current events makes more and more sense.
Loyal Servant Viper Intel Squad	Posted - 2008.03.25 04:41:00 - [68] Edited by: Loyal Servant on 25/03/2008 04:41:22 Originally by: ghosttr Id have to agree with the op on this one Industry characters rarely have any pvp skills, just like pvp chars rarely have many sp invested in industry. Should the lack of pvp skills mean that the industrialist has no means of countermeasure? No Should that mean that the industrialist should have to adopt a more pvp-like playstyle? No, even though one should always be vigilant, it shouldn't be a requirement. The bottom line is that combat shouldn't be the only form of pvp CCP should focus on. So, you should have a free pass to sit there and make isk with -0- risk? Meh, get over yourselves. I want to see you die next. Edit: typo.
Thornat Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.25 04:42:00 - [69] As usual every Eve forum discussion boils down to tards who shall not remain nameless replying with nothing more than antogonizing comments with zero value, thanks CELOT for continuing the tradition of wasting everyones time. Now that thats out of the way. Ghost there are two problems I have with what your saying. First and foremost it won't really do much to counter suicide ganking for two very big reasons. For starters limiting who you sell to doesn't hurt anyone but you. Even if the community embraced it and embargoed entire corps, the end result would be the creation of new very profitable markets for those people who ignore the embargos. I for example couldn't care less about suicide ganking because I know how to avoid it, because as you mentioned I do it on their terms. Secondly is that suice ganking is not done for profit and while many will come on the forum and lie about how much ISK they make, in the end, every intelegent study of the subject has proven without a doubt that suicide gankers work at a loss and one can only conclude that they do it out of the pleasure of poping people and nothing more. The second problem I have with this is that we really don't need a counter measure for suicide ganking. Simply put, Eve is not that kind of game despite 'carebearism' trying to force it into that direction. Even the label 'suicide ganking' is really quite incorrect. Suicide ganking is nothing more then a type of piracy operation that is not only legitimate but important to the Eve economy. The so called suicide gankers along with all forms of piracy and PvP keep the wheels of the economy turning. Simply put, stuff needs to be blown up in order for guys like you and me to make stuff and sell it. Without pirates and PvPers the market would literly freeze. The so called suicide gankers are responsible for some of the largest losses in Eve blowing up extremly expensive stuff which is exactly what they target. In conclusion, while I agree with you that Suicide Ganking is a very hard thing to live with in Empire and I don't like it anymore then you do, I don't like it in the sense that I want to avoid it but I disagree that we need to take measures to eliminate it. I have been on the fence on this topic myself and even argued against it on a number of occassion but when you take the entire scope of the game and all its parts into consideration its quite easy to make the realization that suicide ganking is a critical part of the game. It creates risk even for those who want to live without it which is the very heart and soul of Eve. As CCP has said time and time again, you are never truely safe in Eve. This moto rings true as a conceptual and spiritual (if you can use that word) part of Eve. Without the 'forced' risk on every single player in Eve, it just wouldn't be the same game.
Dont Tasemebro Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.25 05:01:00 - [70] I like the freedom of mining in empire. I've been an industrialist in a large nullsec alliance, and I've seen what it is like when Eve stops becoming a hobby and becomes a lifestyle. In Empire, I can mine for a few minutes, go afk in a belt to have a smoke, take a dump, come back, jet my cargo and turn my lasers back on. Sure, I make a mere fraction of what I could make in nullsec, but I was free to do whatever the f*ck I wanted and not have to worry about getting ganked. I'd like nothing more than to taste crokite again, but it comes with way too much stress and heartache. see, where nullsec is complete freedom for you pvp'ers and metagamers, empire is complete freedom for us casuals and industrialists. Let's keep it that way, before CCP is forced to change the game for us.

Rawr Cristina Naqam	Posted - 2008.03.25 05:07:00 - [71] give us the ability to overload DCUs for an extremely brief period of time? there would be your counter. Pity not a single Hulk pilot would have the sense to use it even if it made TQ ...
Vested Interest Hedion University	Posted - 2008.03.25 05:23:00 - [72] This is not a good idea. You don't get to tell the public market brokers who they can and can't sell to. If you want to control access to the marketplace, move to 0.0.
Malbolge Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.25 05:34:00 - [73] Originally by: Vested Interest If you want to control access to the marketplace, move to 0.0. One might just as easily write "If you want to kill people, move to 0.0."
Hippy Dave University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.25 05:51:00 - [74] An interesting but flawed idea which wouldnt work AT ALL and would probably be exploited by the self same 'suicide gankers' to cripple empire play even more.. Besides there already is a way you can fight back without lifting a finger... PAY MERCS OR FRIENDS TO GUARD YOU AND HUNT DOWN GOONS, USE SOME OF THAT FAT PILE OF ISK YOU ARE SITTING ON, THAT ISK IS YOUR NON-PVP WEAPON ....
Akiama Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.03.25 06:00:00 - [75] I wouldn't mind seeing a way to set reputation ratings to determine who can purchase your goods. It'd be a great way to increase legitimate business and put a crimp in the spending of pirates, gankers, and alliances you don't want to sell to. Creating an alt won't work either. _______________________________________________________________ "Nice work dumbass." "I've given some thought to moving off the edge. Not an ideal location...maybe a place in the middle."
Riho Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.03.25 07:09:00 - [76] Originally by: ghost st EVE is a sandbox that supports many, many different playstyles, and it usually hapens that a groups of users with a particular playstyle fancy themselves as somehow superior to the other players. Some people will argue and give varoius countermeasure/excuses. But the fact of the matter is that to counter suicide tactics, you have to play their game, or not play at all. CCP have done much to improve one aspect of the game while letting the other slide, and in the universal arms race of bigger and better ships and weapons Concord, and other measures to protect these other playstyles have been largely ignored. I believe that if suicide ganking is to be made fair that CCP should also extend the means of industrial players to effect thier attackers, without forcing them to adopt the same playstyle as the attacker. We already know that pvp players have the option of suicide ganking as a means to attack miners, and ohter industrialists. But industrialists should have their own tools to combat these tactics in thier own way. I believe that CCP should introduce a system where miners and other industrialists can pick and choose who they buy from and who they sell to. This set of pvp tools for industrialists should allow them to specify, by means of standings. Who can buy thier items, or who they will sell thier products too. This will make it so campaigns such as the on that goonswarm has running could have negative repercussions from thier actions, without forcing industrialists to adopt pvp playstyles. And will make it so that attacking industrialists could have added long-term consequences, as or more severe than the options pvp pilots have to attack industrialists. the solution is not hauling stuff afk, not mining afk.... use it or die afk ---------------------------------- This is Me, fighting stupidity one post at a time. PS: There are no computer BUGs, there is stuff called "Random Features"
Kyanzes Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2008.03.25 07:19:00 - [77] Originally by: ghost st --------------------------------------------- GET TO THE CHOPPA!!! The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Shintai Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2008.03.25 07:45:00 - [78] What good are killrights if its an alt that hardly logs on and gets recycled? What good is tanking your exhumer if there is 2BS or 4 BC/CR on you since they cost nothing? LOL! Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Gamesguy D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.25 07:48:00 - [79] Originally by: Shintai What good are killrights if its an alt that hardly logs on and gets recycled? What good is tanking your exhumer if there is 2BS or 4 BC/CR on you since they cost nothing? LOL! Recycling alts for that purpose is an exploit, and low sp alts really don't do much dps. Most people gank with their combat mains, not their alts. And you could always goto 0.0 and kill him when hes ratting. Fairly easy to use an alt to locate via locator agent.
Asheru Perkone	Posted - 2008.03.25 09:22:00 - [80] You can rat for 3-4 minutes in 0.0 and kill a 1mil ISK bounty rat with relatively little risk if you watch local and stay aligned for a POS/SS. An empire miner can mine 1 million ISK worth of pyerite and trit in about 30-40 minutes. I think those risk versus rewards are pretty fair.

Avon Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.25 09:23:00 - [81] Edited by: Avon on 25/03/2008 09:24:57 Edited by: Avon on 25/03/2008 09:24:11 Lots of people here seem to be going off on some crazy tangents tbh. Yes, industrialists should be able to blacklist individuals, corps, and alliances from their sales* if they so desire. forgot security status and standings.* ** and character race, for those dirty roleplayers :P Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Corstaad Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.25 09:28:00 - [82] Take a wild guess what happen to me today? I got ganked by a bunch of stealth bombers. Didn't look at local went in for bait and looked for a easy kill. Died wasn't even a fair fight. 15 mins after aggresion let up I got in another ship and had fun. I have no clue why you can't figure out this game, none.
Jack Jombardo The Last Samurais	Posted - 2008.03.25 09:47:00 - [83] Originally by: Angelic Eviaran Originally by: ghost st Some people will argue and give varoius countermeasure/excuses. But the fact of the matter is that to counter suicide tactics, you have to play their game, or not play at all. There is a counter. Its called killrights. Failed whine. You fail at eve. Im sorry. No, killright is NO counter. A dedicated trader/miner/hauler has close to no fight skills. Some can't even fly a Cruiser with medium Weapons. How the heck should they kill a dedicated fighter even with killrights? Bouncing them to death? MEGA ROFL! A correct counter mesure would allow the victim to react INSTANTLY with the posibility to stay alive! 100% fail @Angelic Eviaran
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.25 11:02:00 - [84] Originally by: Kuar Z'thain See that thing on your Character Sheet labeled 'Kill Rights'? ....There's your counter. to stupid for words...... Anyone that thinks kill rights are even vaguely an effective countermeasure is an idiot. However.... TRANSFERABLE kill rights would work wonderfully. Right now if a carebear miner gets suicide ganked, he often lacks the skills to use the kill right. But if he could give that kill right to a combat skilled friend or alt, all would be well in the world. Play nice while you butcher each other.
mcnuggetlol O.W.N. Corp United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.25 11:03:00 - [85] How about you gather some people together and fight back? There's nothing stopping you.
mahj Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.25 11:07:00 - [86] Edited by: mahj on 25/03/2008 11:07:40 EVE does seem to support terrorists, in RL the big corps (usa) would wipe out there POS's (country) camp there stations (caves). burn there roid feilds (poppy feilds) and put huge bounties on any they could not find (Bin laden) Is EVE anti social? anti civilisation? Hmm maybe ***** is hiding in iceland!!
Bignfurrie Phoenix Horizons Inc	Posted - 2008.03.25 11:10:00 - [87] Friend $$ Market $$ and Enemy $$......three pricing levels for selling. Dont forget the auctioning of kill rights threw contracts, that would be real bounty hunting and bring our real anti pirate corps. Corps that just buy up these kill rights. You want more PVP then make a push to have kill rights added to the contracts page.
Mar'Dur Taren The Copernicus Institute	Posted - 2008.03.25 13:03:00 - [88] Edited by: Mar''Dur Taren on 25/03/2008 13:04:37 I like the OP's idea. Have it as a setting on the market screen for a set location. ie. Orders at such'n'such station have these restrictions. Easier than attaching the limits to the item. I'd like to have the option of saying that I wont sell to people with low sec ratings too. I'd also like the ability to see who I'm buying from and choose my supplier. That way I can choose not to buy from Goons or whoever. Use my isk as a weapon. I don't have enough for mercs. The seller is already listed as part of the order (from the logs I've seen). Shouldn't be to hard to implement. Get rid of that damned "buy from the lowest guy" mechanism. To the people who say "fight back". Well the first problem is that suicide gankers are hiding behind CONCORD. You can't do anything about them until they take you out. Worse still, only the guy loosing the ship gets kill rights, his corp can't help. It would be nice if the corp got "kill rights" for unprovoked attacks on members. That way the corp navy could do something. To the people who say "pay attention". People have lives and often have to squeeze R&R around them. That is kinda what empire has become. A place for everyone who wants to Eve but can't commit huge chunks of time to it. Since there is a place where PvPers can go for their fix in low sec why penalize the part timers? They are paying for the game still. To the people who say "Its a PvP game". Take out the markets, manufacturing, mining, POS, blueprints, haulers, etc. Its would be pretty dull as just a PvP game. I'd go somewhere else. The game is more complex than just PvP and trying to force a PvP-centric viewpoint on the community is wrong. Besides, wars are won and lost more by logistics than just troops.
Boomershoot Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2008.03.25 13:11:00 - [89] AHAH OH WOW. the forums are quite useless since the goon started the "pack your thingy and come mine OUR ice" campaing. well, only thing i can say is: killrights. no, transferable killrights can be exploited (in more than one way) and is not good for a thousand of reason (bounty hunters? don't make me laugh, they never existed, nor they will ever do). umh...do what goonies said? you know, moving to minmatar ice belts. it's easy. and yes, you have to tank your hulk. __________________________________________________ Not A Signature. Will be Replaced by A Signature Soon(tm)
Nyabinghi Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.03.25 14:48:00 - [90] Originally by: Mar'Dur Taren Edited by: Mar''Dur Taren on 25/03/2008 13:04:37 I like the OP's idea. Have it as a setting on the market screen for a set location. ie. Orders at such'n'such station have these restrictions. Easier than attaching the limits to the item. I'd like to have the option of saying that I wont sell to people with low sec ratings too. I'd also like the ability to see who I'm buying from and choose my supplier. That way I can choose not to buy from Goons or whoever. Use my isk as a weapon. I don't have enough for mercs. The seller is already listed as part of the order (from the logs I've seen). Shouldn't be to hard to implement. Get rid of that damned "buy from the lowest guy" mechanism. To the people who say "fight back". Well the first problem is that suicide gankers are hiding behind CONCORD. You can't do anything about them until they take you out. Worse still, only the guy loosing the ship gets kill rights, his corp can't help. It would be nice if the corp got "kill rights" for unprovoked attacks on members. That way the corp navy could do something. To the people who say "pay attention". People have lives and often have to squeeze R&R around them. That is kinda what empire has become. A place for everyone who wants to Eve but can't commit huge chunks of time to it. Since there is a place where PvPers can go for their fix in low sec why penalize the part timers? They are paying for the game still. To the people who say "Its a PvP game". Take out the markets, manufacturing, mining, POS, blueprints, haulers, etc. Its would be pretty dull as just a PvP game. I'd go somewhere else. The game is more complex than just PvP and trying to force a PvP-centric viewpoint on the community is wrong. Besides, wars are won and lost more by logistics than just troops. First off EVE needs more positive goals. Not just war and the military industrial complex that supports it. Second of all I strongly suggest players begin setting up their own preferred buyers/sellers list and keep trade strictly within themselves. In fact you could bypass the isk system and simply trade goods for goods (yay no taxes!) ***



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