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Suicide Ganks, Give us equal countermeasures CCP!

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ghost st The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:31:00 - [1] EVE is a sandbox that supports many, many different playstyles, and it usually hapens that a groups of users with a particular playstyle fancy themselves as somehow superior to the other players. Some people will argue and give varoius countermeasure/excuses. But the fact of the matter is that to counter suicide tactics, you have to play their game, or not play at all. CCP have done much to improve one aspect of the game while letting the other slide, and in the universal arms race of bigger and better ships and weapons Concord, and other measures to protect these other playstyles have been largely ignored. I believe that if suicide ganking is to be made fair that CCP should also extend the means of industrial players to effect thier attackers, without forcing them to adopt the same playstyle as the attacker. We already know that pvp players have the option of suicide ganking as a means to attack miners, and ohter industrialists. But industrialists should have their own tools to combat these tactics in thier own way. I believe that CCP should introduce a system where miners and other industrialists can pick and choose who they buy from and who they sell to. This set of pvp tools for industrialists should allow them to specify, by means of standings. Who can buy thier items, or who they will sell thier products too. This will make it so campaigns such as the on that goonswarm has running could have negative repercussions from thier actions, without forcing industrialists to adopt pvp playstyles. And will make it so that attacking industrialists could have added long-term consequences, as or more severe than the options pvp pilots have to attack industrialists.
Celot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:34:00 - [2] it's called the gistii a-type small shield booster :rolleyes: oh and stop spamming, you're ruining my forum experience
Bellum Eternus Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:35:00 - [3] Originally by: ghost st EVE is a sandbox that supports many, many different playstyles, and it usually hapens that a groups of users with a particular playstyle fancy themselves as somehow superior to the other players. Some people will argue and give varoius countermeasure/excuses. But the fact of the matter is that to counter suicide tactics, you have to play their game, or not play at all. CCP have done much to improve one aspect of the game while letting the other slide, and in the universal arms race of bigger and better ships and weapons Concord, and other measures to protect these other playstyles have been largely ignored. I believe that if suicide ganking is to be made fair that CCP should also extend the means of industrial players to effect thier attackers, without forcing them to adopt the same playstyle as the attacker. We already know that pvp players have the option of suicide ganking as a means to attack miners, and ohter industrialists. But industrialists should have their own tools to combat these tactics in thier own way. I believe that CCP should introduce a system where miners and other industrialists can pick and choose who they buy from and who they sell to. This set of pvp tools for industrialists should allow them to specify, by means of standings. Who can buy thier items, or who they will sell thier products too. This will make it so campaigns such as the on that goonswarm has running could have negative repercussions from thier actions, without forcing industrialists to adopt pvp playstyles. And will make it so that attacking industrialists could have added long-term consequences, as or more severe than the options pvp pilots have to attack industrialists. Very cool idea!!!!! AWESOME!!!! Frankly sir, I'm just astounded. What a brilliant idea. People could embargo/boycott entire alliances, the NPC corps, anything. Awesome awesome awesome. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Kuar Z'thain Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:37:00 - [4] See that thing on your Character Sheet labeled 'Kill Rights'? ....There's your counter.
Angelic Eviaran University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:39:00 - [5] Originally by: ghost st Some people will argue and give varoius countermeasure/excuses. But the fact of the matter is that to counter suicide tactics, you have to play their game, or not play at all. There is a counter. Its called killrights. Failed whine. You fail at eve. Im sorry.
Dianeces Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:39:00 - [6] Originally by: ghost st EVE is a sandbox that supports many, many different playstyles, and it usually hapens that a groups of users with a particular playstyle fancy themselves as somehow superior to the other players. Some people will argue and give varoius countermeasure/excuses. But the fact of the matter is that to counter suicide tactics, you have to play their game, or not play at all. CCP have done much to improve one aspect of the game while letting the other slide, and in the universal arms race of bigger and better ships and weapons Concord, and other measures to protect these other playstyles have been largely ignored. I believe that if suicide ganking is to be made fair that CCP should also extend the means of industrial players to effect thier attackers, without forcing them to adopt the same playstyle as the attacker. We already know that pvp players have the option of suicide ganking as a means to attack miners, and ohter industrialists. But industrialists should have their own tools to combat these tactics in thier own way. I believe that CCP should introduce a system where miners and other industrialists can pick and choose who they buy from and who they sell to. This set of pvp tools for industrialists should allow them to specify, by means of standings. Who can buy thier items, or who they will sell thier products too. This will make it so campaigns such as the on that goonswarm has running could have negative repercussions from thier actions, without forcing industrialists to adopt pvp playstyles. And will make it so that attacking industrialists could have added long-term consequences, as or more severe than the options pvp pilots have to attack industrialists. Because GoonSwarm doesn't build their own ships, amirite?
Ikasu Scrutari The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:39:00 - [7] I actually love this idea, it's something we've needed for awhile anyway. It should provide some realistic consequences to killing miners. Killing your own personal economy. Pa-owned. --------------------------------------------------
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Kuar Z'thain See that thing on your Character Sheet labeled 'Kill Rights'? ....There's your counter. ... like that works the way it was intended .. or like a 15M SPS industrialist is going to opt into fighting fire with fire given that isn't his strength and go against a 25M SPS ganker. I kind of like the OPs point that you don't need to PvP to get back at PvPers.
Black Scorpio Impending Doom Inc. The Crimson Federation	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:41:00 - [9] I like this OP's idea, as you can enable industry play it's role in PvP as well. Ofc, though it will be of little use overall, as anyone can roll an alt from an npc or another corp and purchase the same products on preferential prices.
Sakura Nihil Stimulus	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:42:00 - [10] Keep in mind something. While a "boycott" feature could be done, something that would prevent you from selling to a player/corp/alliance, its bypassable. All it takes is an alt. Kudos to thinking outside the box of "stop them" and rather saying "help me stop them". Its a start. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk i'm not a very good gambler

Fager Xel'Naga Corp Cold Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:44:00 - [11] Originally by: Kuar Z'thain See that thing on your Character Sheet labeled 'Kill Rights'? ....There's your counter. A counter a PvE player cant use, duh.. However these sell rights can be cheated throu alts (oh yeah, burn the alts to hell) and second accounts. Expanding on the idea, for industualists to configure their items to require something (think a T2 tychoon thats standard to other T2 only the builder put a limit on it so only ppl with concord/caldari/galente/... faction standingof 1.0/2.0/-5.0 higher or lower can use this item. Expanding more, could be countered with hacking by the using pilot perhaps? ??? profit "I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
Dianeces Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:44:00 - [12] Originally by: Eventy One Originally by: Kuar Z'thain See that thing on your Character Sheet labeled 'Kill Rights'? ....There's your counter. ... like that works the way it was intended .. or like a 15M SPS industrialist is going to opt into fighting fire with fire given that isn't his strength and go against a 25M SPS ganker. I kind of like the OPs point that you don't need to PvP to get back at PvPers. Yes. Because every single person who suicide ganks has 25m SP.
ghost st The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:45:00 - [13] Originally by: Sakura Nihil Keep in mind something. While a "boycott" feature could be done, something that would prevent you from selling to a player/corp/alliance, its bypassable. All it takes is an alt. Kudos to thinking outside the box of "stop them" and rather saying "help me stop them". Its a start. The point would be to make it as inconvenient as possible. Every player would need an alt, it would take longer to get things and be a pain in the ass to get a ship and fit it. YOu could also just set only blues to buy your stuff
Brigitte Helm Flying Fox Industries	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:45:00 - [14] Originally by: ghost st I believe that CCP should introduce a system where miners and other industrialists can pick and choose who they buy from and who they sell to. I fully support this idea. Industrial should be able to fight in there normal pvp method.. buy/sell rights. Kill rights is for pewpew pvp. I cant see it becoming part of eve for technical reason of the database load in the background.. but hey.. Hug a Carebear, Kill a pirate, squish a Rat, and tickle a dev. Make Eve fun....
Sir Bloodclaw Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:45:00 - [15] In the spirit of this offensive behaviour by the goons and their whole purely provocative Allah/jihad campaign, I want a mining barge that can be fitted with a cloak and a small scale doomsday. So I can take it to their home systems.
Aprudena Gist GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:46:00 - [16] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Eventy One Originally by: Kuar Z'thain See that thing on your Character Sheet labeled 'Kill Rights'? ....There's your counter. ... like that works the way it was intended .. or like a 15M SPS industrialist is going to opt into fighting fire with fire given that isn't his strength and go against a 25M SPS ganker. I kind of like the OPs point that you don't need to PvP to get back at PvPers. Yes. Because every single person who suicide ganks has 25m SP. i passed 12 million sp the other day.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Dianeces Yes. Because every single person who suicide ganks has 25m SP. That was was we call an "example" Its something logical people know - one only need to find one exception to a rule to prove something isn't true in all cases.
Celot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:46:00 - [18] Edited by: Celot on 19/03/2008 20:46:53 just passed 19m SP crew with second most all-time empire exhumer kills checkin in :coolshark:
Dianeces Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:47:00 - [19] Originally by: Aprudena Gist i passed 12 million sp the other day. That's cool. I just hit 16m. Have I mentioned gank Thoraxes are fantastic?
JADE DRAG0NESS Dark Scorpions Fate Weavers	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:47:00 - [20] A gist type shield booster. A hull mod A friend The map [ship kill settings]. A nanofibre or 2 to speed up warp out. A high end hauler such as an Ity 4-5 A tech 2 hauler Split your load into smaller parts and haul in a fast ship. Try a different route. And so on. Eve is a sandbox game and its not really TOO hard to come up with ways to increase your chances at getting past such obsticles. "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand

Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:50:00 - [21] Originally by: Dianeces Because GoonSwarm doesn't build their own ships, amirite? they reallocate doomsday device resources to tech 1 frigates, its brilliant I say BRILLIANT! also there are plenty of ways to avoid ganks
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:51:00 - [22] Edited by: Eventy One on 19/03/2008 20:52:14 Originally by: Dianeces What about 3 exceptions? Because there have been that many in this thread already. Those three exceptions further validate my point! Or are you completely illogical. The OP points out that an industrialist carebear should not have to engage in PvP to get back at the gankers. The fact that there are any exceptions to the rule that a carebear industrialist has skills enough or better to PvP the gankers shows that his point stands. Further even if the ganked has the same skills as the ganker but has them invested in industry rather than combat makes his point more strongly still. Now that I've reduced his point to the lowest common denominator .. feel free to mull it over a bit before you reply. It'll save me time and you ... well .. you know.
Nyabinghi Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:54:00 - [23] Ages ago I suggested a "preferred customer list". Essentially it works not unlike trading within an Alliance where instead of just buying & selling openly on the market you set up a client list of friendlies that you buy and sell with exclusively. The success depends upon sticking within the system for all parties involved. Selling your stuff to the guy who's gonna gank you or others like you kinda makes no sense unless you are a masochist. ***
Dianeces Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:54:00 - [24] Originally by: Eventy One Edited by: Eventy One on 19/03/2008 20:52:14 Originally by: Dianeces What about 3 exceptions? Because there have been that many in this thread already. Those three exceptions further validate my point! Or are you completely illogical. The OP points out that an industrialist carebear should not have to engage in PvP to get back at the gankers. The fact that there are any exceptions to the rule that a carebear industrialist has skills enough or better to PvP the gankers shows that his point stands. Further even if the ganked has the same skills as the ganker but has them invested in industry rather than combat makes his point more strongly still. Now that I've reduced his point to the lowest common denominator .. feel free to mull it over a bit before you reply. It'll save me time and you ... well .. you know. If I were as dumb as you are trying to portray me as, I wouldn't know. Thankfully, I seem to be brighter than your condescention would suggest.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey Phoenix Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.19 20:57:00 - [25] Originally by: Dianeces If I were as dumb as you are trying to portray me as, I wouldn't know. Thankfully, I seem to be brighter than your condescention would suggest. If you have to boast about your own intellect, at least one person is convinced that you are correct.
Dianeces Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:03:00 - [26] Originally by: Hamfast Originally by: Celot it's called the gistii a-type small shield booster :rolleyes: oh and stop spamming, you're ruining my forum experience Talk about spreading lies... read this thread... your shield booster will not help, you need a passive tank... you just hope the gistii a-type small shield booster survives so you can loot it with your alt... I am shocked; nay, appalled that you would suggest such valuable members of our Eve community would seek to give flagrantly false advice in the hope of lining their own pockets. Have you no decency, sir?
Bellum Eternus Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Hamfast Originally by: Celot it's called the gistii a-type small shield booster :rolleyes: oh and stop spamming, you're ruining my forum experience Talk about spreading lies... read this thread... your shield booster will not help, you need a passive tank... you just hope the gistii a-type small shield booster survives so you can loot it with your alt... I am shocked; nay, appalled that you would suggest such valuable members of our Eve community would seek to give flagrantly false advice in the hope of lining their own pockets. Have you no decency, sir? Heeee hee hee hee hee.... Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Hamfast Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:08:00 - [28] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Hamfast Originally by: Celot it's called the gistii a-type small shield booster :rolleyes: oh and stop spamming, you're ruining my forum experience Talk about spreading lies... read this thread... your shield booster will not help, you need a passive tank... you just hope the gistii a-type small shield booster survives so you can loot it with your alt... I am shocked; nay, appalled that you would suggest such valuable members of our Eve community would seek to give flagrantly false advice in the hope of lining their own pockets. Have you no decency, sir? Let me check my pockets... Wait, who is to say this is a Valuable member of our eve community, have you read his posts? as to your underlying question... you bet I would... and I can't wait to get home and refit my exhumers and haulers... --------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
Dianeces Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:10:00 - [29] Originally by: Hamfast Let me check my pockets... Wait, who is to say this is a Valuable member of our eve community, have you read his posts? as to your underlying question... you bet I would... and I can't wait to get home and refit my exhumers and haulers... In addition to failing at forums, you also fail at sarcasm. You might wish to train that past level one for future forum excursions.
Ulstan Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.19 21:11:00 - [30] What if you could sell kill rights to bounty hunters? I think that would be the most awesome fix, as it might make bounty hunting actually worth a crap :p



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