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Why do people hate on mining carebears ?

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Kyra Felann Noir.	Posted - 2008.03.23 21:33:00 - [61] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Carebear-ness is a state of mind, not a chosen profession. A pirate that is risk averse (suicide ganker, etc) is a carebear, while an industrialist mining and building ships in the depths of 0.0 isn't. It is the unwillingness to take risks to earn isk is what defines the carebear-ish qualities of a player. I concur. It's not as simple as PvPer vs PvEer, especially not in Eve, where almost everything is some form of PvP.
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2008.03.23 21:35:00 - [62] Yawning, yawning, yawning, rawhide! -------------------- What? Me Worry? --------------------
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.23 21:46:00 - [63] Originally by: cal nereus Eve is the only MMO I am willing to pay money to play. So, I'm not an MMO type of player. I've played a handful of FPS, and even though I enjoy games like BF2 and CS:S, I really do suck at "twitch" gameplay. RTS is probably the easiest type of game for me to wrap my head around, but I tend to cruise through single player mode instead of try a challenge. At heart, I'm a builder, not a fighter. I'm not good at FPS games, but I enjoy the teamwork and loud noises. In Eve, I started out as a pure carebear who was more interested in collecting stuff and chatting with other players (Surfin knows, I was always chatting it up in our noob corp chat). But I moved on. Turns out, 0.0 players are more sociable than high-sec ones. And PvP is exhilarating, giving me a purpose to earn isk, train skills and buy ships. Good post. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Re Mi Funshine Unlimited	Posted - 2008.03.23 22:10:00 - [64] This thread has been written almost entirely by non-carebears. It is not reflective of reality. Speaking as a carebear this is what I do: 1. I mine pvpers emo tears when they get nerfed as this is the best source of oxygen and hydrogen isotopes in EvE, and is a never ending supply. 2. I use the emo tears to fuel my POS where I make T2 reactions. 3. Profit. Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation
Thenoran The People's Liberation Army	Posted - 2008.03.23 22:22:00 - [65] There is a difference between an Industrialist/Miner and a Carebear, which is something that seems to be overlooked by a lot of people. Appearantly going about your business shooting up pirates in missions, mining a bit, making millions from manufacturing and such labels a lot of people as a Carebear by mistake. What about people owning a POS in High-sec for Material research & Copying? Even a small POS requires serious amounts of ISK and standings, not to mention being able to supply it all. If I am stupid enough to go mine in Low-sec in a Retriever or mine AFK with that Jihadswarm about, it was my mistake and don't expect me to whine on the forums about it. For me, a Carebear is a WoW or FPS player expecting a free respawn with nothing lost when they are killed/ship destroyed, and then whine everyone's ear off on how they didn't get a new ship at the graveyard. Those who Industrialize/Mine in EVE are not Carebears, those who can't handle the fact that EVE is an unforgiving and hard place are. ------------------------ Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh
Bado Sten Sten Industries	Posted - 2008.03.23 22:35:00 - [66] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Originally by: IDF187 Now that confused me, how? Carebear-ness is a state of mind, not a chosen profession. A pirate that is risk averse (suicide ganker, etc) is a carebear, while an industrialist mining and building ships in the depths of 0.0 isn't. It is the unwillingness to take risks to earn isk is what defines the carebear-ish qualities of a player. This about sums it all up -- Do you need research services for your blueprints? We have available slots in Metropolis region. Look up my bio for info!
Tenebrys Havoc Violence and Chaos	Posted - 2008.03.24 00:14:00 - [67] Carebears tend to be people who are less concerned with how they fare in PVP than with their material worth in EVE. You can draw an analogy here with carebear-type, solo PvE-for-life players in World of Warcraft. WoW CAREBEAR: If you kill people, you're killing ones who are 10 levels or so lower than you and likely macros, and only for Honor Points to buy that next piece of equipment with. If you hit a battleground, you're likely just going to go AFK there and rack up honor points over there. Your interests are: A: Level 70 B: Max Stormwind reputation or whatever C: Epic mount D: Epic boots E: More gold You're likely to brag about all this in capital letters with spaces between them while passing through Hillsbrad Foothills. EVE CAREBEAR: If you kill people, you're just targeting and shooting at that flashing red frigate in 1.0 space who's already surrounded by a lump of CONCORD, and only because you think you might get his bounty. If you hit lowsec, it's to get those Giant Sealed Shipping Containers to station or to get a good deal on some module. Your interests are: A: Caldari Battleship V/Cruise Missile Specialization V B: Max Caldari Navy reputation C: Epic CNR D: Epic shield boost amplifier E: More ISK You're likely to brag about this in State War Academy or School of Applied Knowledge chat. The difference is that in EVE, all that can be taken away from you in a heartbeat, except maybe the navy reputation.
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.24 01:56:00 - [68] People don't stay the same, they evolve, they try different aspects of the game, people don't mine/rat/mission/pvp at the same time, often you do 1 thing for months, train it hardcore, and become a solid professional. There was a time when I mined for like 4 months straight, mined every day, trained to hulk, trained refining, followed the market, etc. That doesn't mean I'm a miner now. I evolved. Up until a month ago I had never done a level 4. I ran level 3's like twice and went to live in 0.0, there I learned how to rat for maximum income. Before that I joined a PvP academy corp, and took an Agony Unleashed class, to learn the fundamentals of gang pvp. There was a time I wanted to do nothing but pvp all day every day but couldn't find a corp to do that in. I'm still evolving, trying things that are new to me, training up various professions. I have goals. A list of things that I want to do and things that I'd like to learn. My particular problem is I'm a perfectionist. I can't do things half-assed. I know I can jump into a BS and do level 4's no problem, but thats not my way. My way is to learn how to do them in record time, doing them over and over until I have the rhythm down cold, training up skills like negotiation so I can maximize income, so thats my goal right now to be a grade A first class top notch mission ho. My guess is that every player in Eve evolves the same way, they don't just do 1 thing forever, they change careers and try different things. So to me there is no such thing as a carebear, I think %99.999999 of people have either tried PvP or plan to try it, they just happen to be in a different aspect of the game right now.
Annaphera The Green Machine	Posted - 2008.03.24 02:05:00 - [69] You're all wrong...and right. The problem with the word "Carebear" is that it has no standard definition, and so ends up as a bizarre, sort of reverse "No True Scotsman" fallacy. To a hard-core PvPer, a "Carebear" is anyone who insists the game should be able to be played without ever risking PvP. They could never, ever be a Carebear. To a die-hard high sec industrialist, the "Carebear" is that sucker that got whacked by Goonswarm, and is now whining for a nerf on the forums. They could never, ever be a Carebear. To a persistent mission runner, the "Carebear" is that (censored) pirate that hangs out in low sec, attacking people in the middle of missions at no risk to themselves. They, themselves, could never, ever be a Carebear. To the low-sec-hardend pirate, a "Carebear" is anyone who spends all their time in high sec, avoiding areas that have the thrill of "actual risk versus reward" with themselves as the risk. They could never, ever be a Carebear. See? The truth is, a "Carebear" is a talking cartoon animal that originlly looked like a teddy bear of some kind, invented by a greeting card company and made into a children's TV cartoon.
k Rose Aeon Interstellar Conglomerate Aeon Group Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.24 02:11:00 - [70] Whats not to like about me? To enable image please go into your setting and check the box show images!
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.24 02:14:00 - [71] I loved that cartoon. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Esmenet Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.03.24 02:32:00 - [72] Edited by: Esmenet on 24/03/2008 02:32:57 Originally by: Cipher7 Sorry but BF2 pwns Eve, CS pwns Eve, Quake pws Eve and Halo pwns Eve. In fact let me just say categorically that FPS > MMORPG x 100 in every way from fun to skill to replay value. I like a bit of fps game now and again, but i've never played any fps game half as much as the mmorpgs i have liked. I've never managed to finish a solo fps as i get bored halfway through. Multiplayer can be fun and i've enjoyed a bit of quake, CS, BF2 etc but it usually dont last long before i get bored. The games that keep my interest are strategy games(not rts crap), rpgs and mmorpgs. Not sure what this has to do with the thread though.
Jack Jombardo The Last Samurais	Posted - 2008.03.24 02:45:00 - [73] Originally by: Frug If people hate them, it's because they whine and don't understand that whining only makes people want to suicide/can flip them more. You mean like all these whining wannabe lowsec Rambos? "whuhuhu lowsec is sooo empty, can't find sheeps I can gang" <- Pirate carebare from your defination?
Cpt Fina Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2008.03.24 02:49:00 - [74] As long as there is no official definition of the word "carebear" then it doesnÆt really matter what you say it is since your definition is as valid (or invalid) as the next one. My personal opinion of a carebear is basically a risk averse player, not profession. Although some professions or activities automatically come with greater risks than other. The ultimate carebear, in my opinion, is the dedicated high-sec missionrunner/explorer whose gamefocus only/mainly involves NPC-content.
Jack Jombardo The Last Samurais	Posted - 2008.03.24 02:59:00 - [75] Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 24/03/2008 02:59:42 Originally by: Cpt Fina The ultimate carebear, in my opinion, is the dedicated high-sec missionrunner/explorer whose gamefocus only/mainly involves NPC-content. Some level 4 missions can be very dangures espezialy if you fly them to early. On the other side highsec ganging is far to save becouse a) you'll scan your target without risk b) can pick your fights very carefully c) will be refoundet after your ship-lose from CONCORD. So absolut NO risk! Same for lowsec "Pirates". a) they have all the combat-skills they need b) they pick there targets c) 99,99% of all fights they are perfectly PvP-fitted and use superior ships compared to there targets MINIMAL risk! And ganging Bargs/Exhumer/Hauler? absolut NO risk at all as they can't realy fight back! PvP players = much more carebears then any mission flyer from your defination!
Asuka Smith StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.03.24 03:00:00 - [76] A guy who only flies PVP if he has his 18 HAC gang with a cyno ship in case that solo BS turns out to be real nasty and they need a carrier to finish him off is a carebear.
Jack Jombardo The Last Samurais	Posted - 2008.03.24 03:04:00 - [77] Originally by: Asuka Smith A guy who only flies PVP if he has his 18 HAC gang with a cyno ship in case that solo BS turns out to be real nasty and they need a carrier to finish him off is a carebear. following this => Goonswarms "yhaladid"-swarm == Cerabear-swarm ? most likely
Cpt Fina Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2008.03.24 03:30:00 - [78] Edited by: Cpt Fina on 24/03/2008 03:30:36 Originally by: Jack Jombardo Some level 4 missions can be very dangures espezialy if you fly them to early. Picking your nose can be dangerous too but if that's the most dangerous thing a man does all day I wouldn't exactly call him a daredevil. Risks are relative and high-sec missionrunning in an NPC-corp are, as I see it, the unquestionable least riskfilled professions in Eve. Yet the rewards are very competitive. Originally by: Jack Jombardo Same for lowsec "Pirates". a) they have all the combat-skills they need What are you saying? Having good skills for a chosen activity automatically makes it too safe? Or are you saying that pirates can reduce the risk of getting killed by training skills? If you mean the last one then I agree and I can't see a problem with that. Originally by: Jack Jombardo b) they pick there targets Yes, they often do. It's a way to reduce or enhance risk/fun. Originally by: Jack Jombardo c) 99,99% of all fights they are perfectly PvP-fitted and use superior ships compared to there targets MINIMAL risk! Have you any hard facts to back this up? I personally doubt that 9,999 out of 10,000 fights that pirates engage in have these both characteristics. Minimal risk? There's a tonload of risk-factors that comes into play when pirating, not only the ones you've mentioned. The mere fact that low-sec pirates usually live in low-sec and that anyone can engage them at will speaks for their willingness to accept risk. Originally by: Jack Jombardo And ganging Bargs/Exhumer/Hauler? absolut NO risk at all as they can't realy fight back! This has to do with pirating how? Killing miningbarges is one aspect of the profession not the sum of it. Just because the trader with billions of isk invested (put at risk) on the market buys a shuttle to examine a new regional market doesn't experience any risk when buying the shuttle, doesn't mean that trading as a profession is risk free. Originally by: Jack Jombardo PvP players = much more carebears then any mission flyer from your defination! Well, depends on your definition of carebear but with "risk averse" as a definition; the dedicated high sec missionrunner are very much more carebear than most if not all PvPers.
Jack Jombardo The Last Samurais	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:14:00 - [79] where is the risk if you gang a mining Barg with your HAC? Where is the risk if you gang this hauler with your BS? nowhere! If insurence wouldn't be paid after a CONCORD kill then there would be risk. But with this payback you'll lose nothink even if all the transport goods get destroyed. And much less in lowsec or 0.0 as there isn't a CONCORD to kill you. So where is the risk? I can't see it anywhere.
Cpt Fina Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:32:00 - [80] Edited by: Cpt Fina on 24/03/2008 04:32:10 Originally by: Jack Jombardo where is the risk if you gang a mining Barg with your HAC? Where is the risk if you gang this hauler with your BS? nowhere! If insurence wouldn't be paid after a CONCORD kill then there would be risk. But with this payback you'll lose nothink even if all the transport goods get destroyed. And much less in lowsec or 0.0 as there isn't a CONCORD to kill you. So where is the risk? I can't see it anywhere. You seem to be referring to high-sec. I never argued about high-sec ganks being relatively safe, allthough they do risk revenge from people with killrights. Now, care to respond to the points I made in my post?
Venkul Mul Vikramaditya DO JAJA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.24 06:57:00 - [81] Originally by: Ruah Piskonit A carebear is someone who, more oftain then not, plays alone and runs CCP created content (missions, exploration, Cosmos, et al). They tend to dissain from conflict and fighting and rarely leave high sec space unless it is to run missions, do exploration, cosmos, et al. Although 'hate' is too strong a word, a lot of people dislike them because they belive CCP give the carebear too much protection. EvE is a very pvp oriented game. These days, it is commonly accepted that there are sevaral ways to do pvp (combat, trading, etc) but the carebear seeks to avoid all of these. People hate them because CCP will 'softain' the game (introduce Concorde, 'nurf' empire ganking, deepspace, wtz) and allow for people who don't agree with unconsentual pvp to live in the game and oftain make good ammount of money. What these people want is for the massive part of MMO be preserved along with the very nasty pvp aspect of the game. People fear that these values will be lost as CCP continues to cater to carebears. In a nutshell some people feel that EVE should be a First Person Shooter with spaceships some token mining/production. Practically StarCraft in space. Other prefer a more complex game where the economy and the production are complex aspects of the game and not add ons.
Polly Prissypantz Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.24 08:53:00 - [82] Everyone who's too busy posting on the forums to play the game are carebears. Move along, nothing to see here.
Asuka Smith StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.03.24 09:20:00 - [83] Mining is so zen, I do it to relax and just chat with my mates. Also mining never gets nerfed and the lag and the blobs and the etc never interfere with my fun. I just mine some ore and build some modules and it is more fun than I ever had shooting things.
Polly Prissypantz Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.24 09:29:00 - [84] In a nutshell: Simple-minded people are often openly hostile to what they don't understand. And a lot of PvP oriented players can't quite fathom how other players could possibly derive enjoyment (or at least, satisfaction) from activities that don't involve getting their kicks at someone elses expense.
Zaqar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.24 09:35:00 - [85] Originally by: Darwin Duck Everybody whine when a new change affects their gameplay. Speak for yourself
Wet Ferret Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:11:00 - [86] Originally by: Cpt Fina As long as there is no official definition of the word "carebear" then it doesnÆt really matter what you say it is since your definition is as valid (or invalid) as the next one. Although there is no "official" definition, it's pretty easy to apply one just by looking at what a Carebear is, and where the term was originally used in gaming (PvE servers). Carebears are simply players who prefer not to kill eachother (risk-averse is an acceptable definition too). When I came to this game three years ago, "Carebearing" did not mean "going to whine on the forums to get things changed so my way of life in EVE becomes easier and everyone else suffers". It just meant going to make money on an empire alt or trading.
Arctur Ceti State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:18:00 - [87] Originally by: Cpt Fina Edited by: Cpt Fina on 24/03/2008 04:32:10 Originally by: Jack Jombardo where is the risk if you gang a mining Barg with your HAC? Where is the risk if you gang this hauler with your BS? nowhere! If insurence wouldn't be paid after a CONCORD kill then there would be risk. But with this payback you'll lose nothink even if all the transport goods get destroyed. And much less in lowsec or 0.0 as there isn't a CONCORD to kill you. So where is the risk? I can't see it anywhere. You seem to be referring to high-sec. I never argued about high-sec ganks being relatively safe, allthough they do risk revenge from people with killrights. Now, care to respond to the points I made in my post? so the risk is that a dedicated miner may seek revenge against you? that's the risk to the pirate?
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:32:00 - [88] Originally by: Cpt Fina Edited by: Cpt Fina on 24/03/2008 03:30:36 Originally by: Jack Jombardo Some level 4 missions can be very dangures espezialy if you fly them to early. Picking your nose can be dangerous too but if that's the most dangerous thing a man does all day I wouldn't exactly call him a daredevil. Risks are relative and high-sec missionrunning in an NPC-corp are, as I see it, the unquestionable least riskfilled professions in Eve. Yet the rewards are very competitive. Have you actually done an L4 lately? I did one last night that took 2 hours, and paid out a whopping 5 mil in payout, bounties and salvage. Whoohoo 2.5 mil an hour. I only gotta do it 100 more times to pay off my ship. In 0.0 I was ratting in a BC making 30 mil an hour haha. Oh yeah highsec mission running is the road to riches baby.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:34:00 - [89] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Cpt Fina Edited by: Cpt Fina on 24/03/2008 03:30:36 Originally by: Jack Jombardo Some level 4 missions can be very dangures espezialy if you fly them to early. Picking your nose can be dangerous too but if that's the most dangerous thing a man does all day I wouldn't exactly call him a daredevil. Risks are relative and high-sec missionrunning in an NPC-corp are, as I see it, the unquestionable least riskfilled professions in Eve. Yet the rewards are very competitive. Have you actually done an L4 lately? I did one last night that took 2 hours, and paid out a whopping 5 mil in payout, bounties and salvage. Whoohoo 2.5 mil an hour. I only gotta do it 100 more times to pay off my ship. In 0.0 I was ratting in a BC making 30 mil an hour haha. Oh yeah highsec mission running is the road to riches baby. Are you claiming that mission is typical or usual? If so, I feel very clever by making 20M+ per hour of missioning. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Yugami Templar 8th Knights Hospitaller	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:38:00 - [90] Edited by: Yugami Templar on 24/03/2008 11:38:34 Ok Ive scanned thru the entire thread and didnt see the real meaning of "Carebear" or its history only alot of guessing as too its meaning. Heres the REAL history of the term Carebear: Many years ago before Everquest,WoW were even made their was a game Ultima Online. This was the worlds first Traditional MMO game. When the game first came out their were very very little rules or boundrys, the Game Devs had originaly thought the players would all form partys and go slay monsters. What happened instead was many people found a virtual world with no social boundrys too restrain them and they thrived on killing new players and stealing thier stuf. These players later came too be called Reds or "Player Killers" (PK). After awhile it became clear something had too be done too save their dwindling customer base as many players were sick of getting killed and robbed all the time, they decided too split the servers into 2 "Worlds". In one world PvP was allowed, on the other it was not. The PvP world serverside soon became a ghostland with most players fleeing too the safer side. The reds/pk's soon became very angry as they had nomore easy marks and most were not intrested in fighting each other or targets that could fight back. On the Ultima Online Forums many angry Reds started calling the other players (who had fled too safer grounds) names, one of the names was "Carebear" and this name is the one that stuck. Now the meaning has changed somewhat over the years depending the game and the player but the general meaning is somebody that does not want too engage in risk (item/money loss). Playing in Empire is somewhat "Carebear" territory since your not supposed too be able too attack other players but with EVE's game design its a grey area since anybody can be attacked anywere if the PK is willing too die. Thank You.

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