- Harbinger has much less DPS than Hurricane or even Cyclone.

Check your "facts".

[All Skills @ LVL 5]

Harbinger[Heavy pulse, Conflag, 5 Hammerheads]: 564 DPS

Cyclone[425MM AC's, 3 HAMS, Full drones]: 532 DPS

MWD? Cap Booster? 1600 Plate? 76k EHP buffer? Good luck firing Conflagration at 15km+ :)

We ain't measure pricks' sizes in vacuum but general ship's perfomance.

Legion definitely lacks 7th low slot

Well, its a matter of warfare philosophy. Amarr ships are for prolonged "open field" engagements. Go on the field, stay fighting as long as possible to grind the enemy down. The cap bonus is the logical choice here, as it lets the laser fire more often before cap becomes a problem. Damage bonus, as most/all Minmatar ships have, are along the line of Guerilla warfare "Strike quick and hard".

No, you compared both ships maximum damage output and obviously did not look to close.

I'm not saying that I agree with the OP that lasers are broken (I don't), but your logic is ********. Lasers, which use cap, get a cap bonus so they can fire longer then projectiles that don't use cap? WTF?

Ever ran out of ammunition in a Laser armed ship?

Looks like we've come full circle. 2006 would like it's whine back.

No, because I'm not ********, but if you're implying that crystals don't burn out you are wrong.

Holy ****.

Ever ran out of ammunition in a Laser armed ship?

anyone claiming amarr ships are underpowered clearly doesnt PVP.
they have by FAR the best battleships, the best command ships, the best carrier, top of the line dread, great recons, excellent HACs and the only semi decent black ops.

for the cheaper tastes, punisher, arbitrator, harbinger, oracle are all excellent ships.

as for lasers, the only down side to them is that you can only do em/therm damage.
this is a perfectly fine trade off for being awesome tho.

Posting in a nerf mimatar(and gallente){and caldari} thread.

I'm not saying that I agree with the OP that lasers are broken (I don't).

Maybe the problem here is not in the lasers rather than hulls and their bonuses. Legion definitely lacks 7th low slot and Harby has to scale down its weapons.

Tbf if we are being really picky about max dps a 3 heat sink HPL Binger does 930dps with HH IIs, conflag and heat. Why you would load that ammo is something else especially with the 26km scorch range you get.

If we really are talking DPS numbers if your Harbinger is being outdps'd by a Cyclone you need better skills

MWD? Cap Booster? 1600 Plate? 76k EHP buffer? Good luck firing Conflagration at 15+km :)

We ain't measure pricks' sizes in vacuum but general ship's perfomance.

But what we have in-game are ships that can't fit proper weapons+mwd+tank.

Yes, the caldari gunships for example

Jesus Christ, learn to read:

2) "Useless bonus". The -10% capacitor bonus is present on almost every amarr hull but it doesn't contribute to the damage output of the weapon or the ship's traits. It gets even worse if the ship has no Laser damage bonus. Talk about "Maller" and "Prophecy" which are among the most gimped in the game.

Harby has to scale down its weapons

[quote=Jeremy Ironforge]
[quote=Korg Tronix]

As for the Amarr missile boats, they are all fairly good but above the Vengeance suffer from the 'Drake is as good at this job and costs alot less' and therefore people say the Sac is crap. HAM Sac has a smaller tank and dps than a HAM Drake but costs 3x as much, so why use it? The HAM Legion is still great as it has a massive tank and if 100mn fit has a great way of leaving fights.

My God you've compared a Cruiser with Battle cruisers and Strategic Cruiser, the result will totaly different dude,
Vengeance vs drake = Fail
pick opponent with same size

Before the recent hybrid rebalancing, when a new player (especially coming from another MMO) would ask me what build they should make for pvp, after explaining to them that it didn't restrict their character due to cross training, I would tell them Minmatar or Amarr.

With all of the recent changes, I would say anything but caldari for starting and wanting to pvp.

In b4 the weekly caldari thread since this one has run its course.

The duality of weapon systems used by Caldari just doesn't make it friendly to new players although it has some very good ships.

Don't forget that Caldari pilots also need to train drone skills to squeeze the last bit of performance out of their ships, with the sole exception of Tengu-only (and maybe frigate/AF-only) pilots.

Don't forget that Caldari pilots also need to train drone skills to squeeze the last bit of performance out of their ships, with the sole exception of Tengu-only (and maybe frigate/AF-only) pilots.

They are pretty much spared the train for Heavies / Sentries which are two separate Rank 5 skills the same as any other Large Weapon System and needs to be brought to 5 to get the T2 Spec which makes them worth it.

The only Caldari Ship not counting Guristas that can mount a full Flight is the Chimera Capital Ship. Everything else has a 75m3 and below bay.

Well this is the case for all races, nothing special about caldari

And to get the most out of a 75m-¦ drone bay, you need two heavy drones.

And don't forget the CNR, which could field three sentry drones and a flight of light drones for small stuff that gets too close.

Caldari ships have "just enough" drone capabilities that you need at least heavy drones to level five (for 1-2-2).