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Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.25 17:36:00 - [61] Originally by: NoNah Oh I hate you Liang. You make my life oh so much harder. You've caused a whole new wave, dammit! ;-) -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
Derek Sigres Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.25 17:40:00 - [62] Originally by: Doctor Athena I fly caldari, but i dissagree. I agree that it was sad when they nerfed all bc hull ships, including the nighthawk. But the drake is way overpowered. No t1 ship should be able to run everything from lv1 to lv4 with ease. And making that ship a good PvP ship also is out of the question. To keep the community happy i think best thing to do is just leave the drake as it is, and fix the ferox instead as viable caldari PvP ship. Becouse most today get into a drake and within 2 weeks, and fly lv4 on same ship 4 weeks later. So I guess only about half the people can recognize a troll? Because the drake is adequate for a wide variety of tasks does not mean it's overpowered. YES you CAN run a level 4 in a Drake, but that does not by any stretch indicate that it's particularly good at the task. It's the beauty of a Caldari ship - it might not be great for most things but at least it does a pretty good job. At any rate, would I like a more powerful drake? Sure, I can't think of anyone who can say they don't want one of their ships to be better than it is, even if it's already pretty good at what it does. I would LIKE to have an 8th launcher, I would LIKE to be able to have the Uber tank AND some teeth. Do I reasonably expect these desires to come to fruition? Nope - it's right up there with an invulnerability field that actually makes you invulnerable. I mean, what if they named the mid tier large sized autocannon "ultimate badass gun of doom" - wouldn't you be dissapointed when it turns out that all it does is shoot large shells with reasonbly balanced damage? My invulnerability field II's SHOULD be named Adaptive Shield Reinforcement Modules or something because last time I checked 30% harder to kill =/= invulnerable.
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.25 17:54:00 - [63] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer What did I complain about now? Is this about the falcons again? Yes, its because you and a couple of other whiners keep posting and bumping nerf threads (the Falcon threads are among them) - and you made a statement that said people would just let the thread fizzle out after 4-5 posts if it weren't true. Guess what. You're wrong. -Liang Well, Im not upset because I know there is no problem with the drake. So ccp dont buff it even if you bump this thread a million times. Have fun. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
arbalesttom Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.25 17:55:00 - [64] Im so sure that Jonny HoBo (the minnie version of Jonny JoJo) was Liang's alt, just admit it On a sidenote, give the drake a 5% rof bonus and 10% resist bonus per bc level and im more than happy, and yes imho it can use this boost. Also, boost the nighthawk and cerb (or lower HAM fitting requirements)! *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^
Doctor Athena State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.25 17:57:00 - [65] Not overpowered? How much isk and SP do you need to take a BS into a lv4 and be efficient? Now compare that isk requirement and SP with what is needed for doing lv4 with drake. Im writting from my phone so cant check t his right now, but im sure you dont need more then 2 mill SP and 40 millions to run a lv4 mission. Lv4 IS the main source of incomst for Alot of people in eve. Saying its not overpowered is outright lie. That ship is a cheap and easy to get version of the nighthawk, a ship that needs the player to dedicate a looong time to get to. I wont go as far as to suggest that it gets nerfed, but saying anything other then that its a damn good ship is a lie.
Maaxeru State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.25 17:59:00 - [66] Edited by: Maaxeru on 25/03/2008 18:00:07 You want a boost on the Drake? Simple: Train for a Nighthawk Honestly - while the tank on the Drake is amazing, its weakness in the DPS department offsets it apropriately. If it isn't broke . . .
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.25 18:00:00 - [67] Originally by: Derek Sigres Back then you could make one that could tank anything short of smiting by god himself. BTW, best quote in the thread. ;-) I'm going to put it in my sig when I get a minute. -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
Monticore D'Muertos Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.03.25 18:15:00 - [68] Edited by: Monticore D''Muertos on 25/03/2008 18:16:17 the drake sucks at pvp for 1 reason it always dies it might not die first but all your friend will die then you end up dying. i don;t get this 'it's got an awesome tank' way of thinking if i went to my dad and said 'hey dad i jsut took 46 kicks to the face from 5 different guys before they broke my jaw' do you think he would be proud of me? just because i want to pvp doesn;t mean i want to die everytime i go do it thats the gallente way of thinking. giving it a bonus to light missile as well as heavy , more agility so fitting a mwd isnt pointless and the rof bonus instead of kinetic so it can maybe kill the af tackling it would be a bonus.
Derek Sigres Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.25 18:23:00 - [69] Originally by: Doctor Athena Not overpowered? How much isk and SP do you need to take a BS into a lv4 and be efficient? Now compare that isk requirement and SP with what is needed for doing lv4 with drake. Im writting from my phone so cant check t his right now, but im sure you dont need more then 2 mill SP and 40 millions to run a lv4 mission. Lv4 IS the main source of incomst for Alot of people in eve. Saying its not overpowered is outright lie. That ship is a cheap and easy to get version of the nighthawk, a ship that needs the player to dedicate a looong time to get to. I wont go as far as to suggest that it gets nerfed, but saying anything other then that its a damn good ship is a lie. I would disagree here. I personally have 16 million SP, much of which is related to doing better with Caldari ships and the Drake in particular including: Battlecruiser IV Drones V Drone Interfacing IV Scout Drone Operation V Racial Drone Spec Skills: II Electronics V Engineering V Shield Managment IV Shield Operation V Shield Upgrades IV Tactical Shield Manipulation IV Weapon Upgrades V Advanced Weapon Upgrades III Missile Launcher Operation V Rapid Launch V Warhead Upgrades IV Heavy Missile Operation V Heavy Missile Specialization III Target Navigation Precision IV I'm still sure I'm missing a few. Nevertheless, that gives me 4 million SP directly related to flying that one ship. In return, my standard PVE setup looks like this: HIGH: 7 Heavy Missile Launcher II's Med: 2 Large Shield Extender II's 2 Hardners 2 Shield Rechargers LOW: 2 Ballistic Control Systems 2 Shield Power Relays Rigs: 3 Core Defense Field Purgers Drones: 5x Light T2 drones. As far as ISK are concerned, the ship itself seems to fluctate between 30 and 40 million isk. My launchers can be found for between 10 and 20 million isk. The mid and low slot fittings generally add about 20 million to the tab. The purgers seem to have stabalized at about 13 million or so apice. So my "overpowered" drake in reality costs about 90 - 110 million isk. As a side note, a cheap but effective raven fitting costs about the same as the higher number for the drake and doesn't require rigs to work. This ship puts out a paultry 315 EFT DPS - sufficient for a level 4 mission but low enough that some BS rats take a FULL rack of missiles(40 per launcher) to kill. More astute onlookers would notice that my Drake's tank is more than a little bit compromised here, weighing in at a mere 600 or so DPS versus the more common 1,000 dps tank. While it's an incredibly sturdy perma tank, the fact that you spend so much time getting outright pounded by lots and lots of ships makes aggro managment a chore, and in some instances forces the occasional warp out. The short version of this story boils down to the simple fact that while a drake CAN run a level 4, it is by no means good at the task. A poorly skilled player will find that while thier tank can perhaps sustain the incomming damage their own DPS is poor enough that some missions will be downright impossible to beat - there are rats in missions that can perma tank the 200 or so DPS a poorly skilled drake pilot is likely to produce. The PVE drake's one great talent is simply it's ability to absorb damage indefinitly. This lends it the ability to surive a mission - perhaps that's all some people judge a ship by but most players will tell you that capable is not the same thing as good.
FawKa E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.03.25 18:53:00 - [70] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Eardianm Seriously? It can passive tank to gate camp or pve like a champ. It can ham + buffer and do some badass soloing. What exactly do you want to fix? What role doesn't it do well enough? Fine as is imo. Caldari ships are bad at PVP The Drake is a Caldari ship => The Drake is bad at PVP. -Liang Please dont.. As per Erasmus Montanus "You cannot fly A stone cannot fly => you are a stone" The Drake is fine

Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.25 18:58:00 - [71] Originally by: FawKa Originally by: Liang Nuren Caldari ships are bad at PVP The Drake is a Caldari ship => The Drake is bad at PVP. -Liang Please dont.. As per Erasmus Montanus "You cannot fly A stone cannot fly => you are a stone" The Drake is fine There's a problem with your logic, actually. I started off with Caldari ships as a whole sucking at PVP, and then extended that to a specific subset (Drakes). You're starting off with two unrelated objects, and equating them without establishing a relationship between the sets. -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
Terianna Eri FMP Corp	Posted - 2008.03.25 19:03:00 - [72] Originally by: Liang Nuren Caldari ships suck at PVP Missile ships suck at PVP Tanks are useless in PVP Drake is a Caldari ship + Drake is a Missile ship + Tanks are useless in PVP => Drake sucks at PVP, so boost both its tank and its gank. New Drake bonuses: +10% resists/level, +10% rof and missile explosion velocity / level -Liang Yes, the drake is so awful that it needs six bonuses just to make it competitive Liang, I thank you for this most needed contribution to the forum, and I hope that CCP finds this thread and makes the right choice. __________________________________
arbalesttom Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.25 19:04:00 - [73] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: FawKa Originally by: Liang Nuren Caldari ships are bad at PVP The Drake is a Caldari ship => The Drake is bad at PVP. -Liang Please dont.. As per Erasmus Montanus "You cannot fly A stone cannot fly => you are a stone" The Drake is fine There's a problem with your logic, actually. I started off with Caldari ships as a whole sucking at PVP, and then extended that to a specific subset (Drakes). You're starting off with two unrelated objects, and equating them without establishing a relationship between the sets. -Liang shrugs OWNED! shrugs Ah, love how Liang can point things out This thread is definately made of pure win. *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners. If real men fly amarr, what does a nbermensch fly then? ---> Gallente ^(>_<)^
FawKa E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.03.25 19:05:00 - [74] You just always posted fine topics and nice replies which ppl really wasnt able to reject was true. I really dont see why the Drake is this bad for you?
d3vo Airborne Assassins Order of the Black Cross	Posted - 2008.03.25 19:15:00 - [75] rof bonus, /signed
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.25 19:20:00 - [76] Originally by: FawKa Edited by: FawKa on 25/03/2008 19:07:02 You just always posted fine topics and nice replies which ppl really wasnt able to reject was true. I really dont see why the Drake is this bad for you? Edit: Not really @ Arbalesttom, but I wont go into a deep theoretic literature debate now Um, I kinda got the idea for this thread from all the "nerf the XXXXX" threads. Someone in one of those threads said that the threads would just peter out if it weren't true (thus XXXXX needs nerfed). So I set out to prove that kind of statement is false... the Truth has nothing to do with how long a thread goes or how much whining goes into them. Hell, given enough pages, and you'll gather momentum for you "cause"... regardless of "truth". Just because 4-5 vocal people think that the Falcon (or any other ship) is overpowered doesn't make it true - or the thread any shorter or flame filled. And FFS, Lyria, Xecequal, and certain others should just freaking stop with the damn forum politicking. Honestly, I've been growing tired of trying to halt their lies and mistruths. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
Saetan SaDiablo Galactic Hyperspace Planning Council	Posted - 2008.03.25 19:20:00 - [77] Originally by: Liang Nuren Ok, so a long time ago, they nerfed the Drake by killing its shield recharge time. This was a brutal nerf, and its really affecting the Caldari population's morale. All of our ships suck at PVP, especially the Drake. It needs its shield recharge time back, please. :) -Liang Weve found the new JoJo!!!!
Jennifer Flate theFragment The Threshold	Posted - 2008.03.25 21:31:00 - [78] i do like the drake tbh, its like a nice safe house for my genitals and it keeps me warm even if it doesn't do much damage i can still punch away the smelly triple BS rat spawns in 0.0. Oh back to the matter at hand.... I love Liang :P, i have seen her/him/it post on many threads and make a lot of sense imo, therefore i have decided to post on here because i am a Drake pilot, don't do much PvP, i did some fleet ops and tbh that just gave me 2 frames, one with a lot of reds/blues and then one of the inside of a station. Drake is perfectly balanced imo, but i sure could benefit from a RoF bonus :)
dAn melax Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.03.25 21:38:00 - [79] OP = Epic Fail ... PvP some or change the race on gallete which is easy as [ehm] to fly on pvp and pve. Stop whining! Play Hard. Go Pro.
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.25 21:45:00 - [80] Originally by: dAn melax OP = Epic Fail ... PvP some or change the race on gallete which is easy as [ehm] to fly on pvp and pve. Stop whining! Buy a new sarcasm detector. Yours has obviously been broken. -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.

FawKa E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.03.25 22:03:00 - [81] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: FawKa Edited by: FawKa on 25/03/2008 19:07:02 You just always posted fine topics and nice replies which ppl really wasnt able to reject was true. I really dont see why the Drake is this bad for you? Edit: Not really @ Arbalesttom, but I wont go into a deep theoretic literature debate now Um, I kinda got the idea for this thread from all the "nerf the XXXXX" threads. Someone in one of those threads said that the threads would just peter out if it weren't true (thus XXXXX needs nerfed). So I set out to prove that kind of statement is false... the Truth has nothing to do with how long a thread goes or how much whining goes into them. Hell, given enough pages, and you'll gather momentum for you "cause"... regardless of "truth". Just because 4-5 vocal people think that the Falcon (or any other ship) is overpowered doesn't make it true - or the thread any shorter or flame filled. And FFS, Lyria, Xecequal, and certain others should just freaking stop with the damn forum politicking. Honestly, I've been growing tired of trying to halt their lies and mistruths. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" -Liang /me emotes bows You got my respect back Keep up !
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.25 23:19:00 - [82] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 25/03/2008 23:19:36 Solution to the Drake problem: change the skill requirement from Caldari Cruiser IV to Minmatar Cruiser IV, remove half the paint, and leave it out in the rain for a while. Problem solved. Minmatar ships = awesome at PvP. Drake = Minmatar ship. Therefore Drake = awesome at PvP.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.03.25 23:27:00 - [83] Boost-a-nerf the Drake ! How about this... Change the bonuses from -5% shield resist to -5% missile launcher RoF. Oh, and give it just as much powergrid as the Ferox. Or, at least somewhere in the middle. MWD HAM Drake... yummy... 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
NoNah Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.03.25 23:27:00 - [84] Originally by: arbalesttom shrugs OWNED! shrugs Ah, love how Liang can point things out This thread is definately made of pure win. Hah, the joke's on you Liang. This thread is tom-approved! Postcount: 411725
Schalac Brotherhood of Wolves	Posted - 2008.03.25 23:44:00 - [85] Yes the Drake needs a boost. I think it should have 200 more calibration points and 20% per level of battle cruisers to velocity and flight time of heavy missiles. Add an explosive damage boost along with the kinetic, and it should have 2 more mid slots and 1 more low slot. As it stands right now though the drake is a big flat piece of garbage. I would never even attempt to fly one of those useless ships.
Sharkk State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.26 00:06:00 - [86] Edited by: Sharkk on 26/03/2008 00:07:36 Edited by: Sharkk on 26/03/2008 00:06:27 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer What did I complain about now? Is this about the falcons again? Yes, its because you and a couple of other whiners keep posting and bumping nerf threads (the Falcon threads are among them) - and you made a statement that said people would just let the thread fizzle out after 4-5 posts if it weren't true. Guess what. You're wrong. -Liang Well, Im not upset because I know there is no/a big problem with the "insert ship here". So ccp dont buff/nerf it even if you bump this thread a million times. Have fun. Fixed
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.03.26 00:38:00 - [87] Originally by: Schalac Yes the Drake needs a boost. I think it should have 200 more calibration points and 20% per level of battle cruisers to velocity and flight time of heavy missiles. Add an explosive damage boost along with the kinetic, and it should have 2 more mid slots and 1 more low slot. As it stands right now though the drake is a big flat piece of garbage. I would never even attempt to fly one of those useless ships. And one extra launcher slot, don't you ever forget that ! 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
d3vo Airborne Assassins Order of the Black Cross	Posted - 2008.03.26 01:15:00 - [88] the drake doesnt need another missile slot giving it 8 would make an imbalance between the other battlecruisers changing the dps bonus to a rof bonus is better 7.5% increase rof of heavy missiles and heavy assault missiles
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.26 01:21:00 - [89] Originally by: d3vo the drake doesnt need another missile slot giving it 8 would make an imbalance between the other battlecruisers changing the dps bonus to a rof bonus is better 7.5% increase rof of heavy missiles and heavy assault missiles Strictly speaking: Switching the damage bonus out for a ROF bonus would increase the Drake's max DPS by 8 1/3% (and up to 33 1/3% for unbonused damage types) - an average of a 27% damage increase across all damage types. Adding in an eighth launcher would increase overall damage by 14.2%. Realistically, Kinetic missiles are currently used in 80% of all situations, so you'd really only see a 27% increase in PVE ability. -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
d3vo Airborne Assassins Order of the Black Cross	Posted - 2008.03.26 01:26:00 - [90] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: d3vo the drake doesnt need another missile slot giving it 8 would make an imbalance between the other battlecruisers changing the dps bonus to a rof bonus is better 7.5% increase rof of heavy missiles and heavy assault missiles Strictly speaking: Switching the damage bonus out for a ROF bonus would increase the Drake's max DPS by 8 1/3% (and up to 33 1/3% for unbonused damage types) - an average of a 27% damage increase across all damage types. Adding in an eighth launcher would increase overall damage by 14.2%. Realistically, Kinetic missiles are currently used in 80% of all situations, so you'd really only see a 27% increase in PVE ability. -Liang thats a good thing... if not...then just change the base dps for heavy missiles to 175 :P



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